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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2013- Mod Warning Post #1
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The man has more sense than to be involved with this shambles.homeofhurling wrote: »i hear a rumour that Anthony Daly could be the new waterford manger soon.0 -
Sorry now but what kind of hurling would you like to see the team play that hasn't been played by another county before as I assume that your making a reference to Waterford trying to play like Clare last year?
Once again I didn't want McGrath to picked as manager either but you managed to contradict yourself twice in the last post. A negative (defensive) style of hurling is a philosphy regardless of whether you agree with it or whether it works or not. How creative do you expect him to be? Reverting back to 15 vs 15. Surely a loaded a back line and withdrawing forwards is more creative than playing 15 vs 15.
Why does he need to be creative and what's wrong with playing 15 v 15. Hurling management is not about fancy tactics, it's about getting the best out of the players at your disposal and winning. McGrath did neither last year.0 -
homeofhurling wrote: »i hear a rumour that Anthony Daly could be the new waterford manger soon.
Another manager who over complicates things with his two man full forward line and playing a sweeper. The years that he played 15 v 15, such as 2011 and 2013, were the dubs best years. Like waterford, Dublin are better off when they are allowed go out and hurl their natural game.0 -
How in Gods name is this allowed to go on any further? McGrath has to go, he didn't know what the hell he was doing last year and he'll **** up alot of promising younger players while taking us back to the good old days of the 70s and 80s if he stays on for another year. We don't have a fantastic set of players but they're alot better than the shambles he precided over last year, who the hell are the cowards on the county board who hid instead of pulling the trigger and getting rid?0
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Been following the views here, 1st of all having both played with and marked donie Breathnach I fail to see why people hold him in such high regard on this forum, a good club hurler but not intercounty standard.
Unfortunately natural ball winners are not frequent in the county championship. Podge hurney probably the most difficult opponent in regards high fielding I've fsce d but doesnt fit the age profile Derek is looking for.
Tom devine and micheal harney 2 possible options but Michaels hurling would need a lot of work but the bravery and timing is there. I don't mean to sound negative but just my own experiences and views.
Plenty of positives there though in regards young talent and ability but if Austin is to be a top quality centre back he needs to curb his enthusiasm for the long solo run and leaving the middle open.
The clare attacking model of space and direct running could be a model for us but the quality of our stick passing and timing of runs need a significant amount of work.0 -
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So it looks like we'll have one player over thirty (Brick). How many are even over 25? Moran, Shane O'Sullivan, Ian O'Regan. Shane Fives maybe?
And against that we'll have 8 or 9 players who were minors in 2013. The whole thing is just nuts.0 -
I can't see the logic in getting rid of 3 championship blooded experienced players that have been starters for us.0
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Mountainlad wrote: »
Seamus Prendergast had a long and great career and was always an under-rated player. The point in 2004 to beat Cork has been mentioned but also the great pass to pick out Dan for his 3rd goal in the 2007 Munster final was a highlight.
His clever low through ball produced Paul O'Brien's winning goal against Tipperary in 2004 and he also scored the winning point against Kilkenny in the 2007 National Hurling League final.0 -
It is questionable his decision to drop SOME of those players previously listed, Nagle had 1 poorish game however I would not say he was destroyed in anyway against cork.... for a comparison look how the limerick wing backs were destroyed by the pace of Cork in the munster final yet there was no call for them to be dropped, just as 1 swallow doesnt make a summer 1 bad game does not make someone a bad player, perhaps a change of position to midfield where his fitness and long range striking could prove a useful weapon.
Richie Foley hasnt been able to put a full season together in yeards due to misfortune with injuries and Ray Barry has plenty of talent yes but needs to nail down whether he is a back or a forward and be left to develop there, midfield again could prove to be his best position as he is an excellent striker of the ball and very accurate but from observing club games you would have to question whether he is a player you can count on when your back is to the wall.0 -
It is questionable his decision to drop SOME of those players previously listed, Nagle had 1 poorish game however I would not say he was destroyed in anyway against cork.... for a comparison look how the limerick wing backs were destroyed by the pace of Cork in the munster final yet there was no call for them to be dropped, just as 1 swallow doesnt make a summer 1 bad game does not make someone a bad player, perhaps a change of position to midfield where his fitness and long range striking could prove a useful weapon.
Richie Foley hasnt been able to put a full season together in yeards due to misfortune with injuries and Ray Barry has plenty of talent yes but needs to nail down whether he is a back or a forward and be left to develop there, midfield again could prove to be his best position as he is an excellent striker of the ball and very accurate but from observing club games you would have to question whether he is a player you can count on when your back is to the wall.
And Lawlor? We've been shredded without him at fullback. Phasing the lad out would be one thing, removing the option of our most reliable full back in years is jist retarded.0 -
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I have great time for lawlor but for a couple of reason's I dont disagree with removing him
He hasnt had a pre season in 3 years due to ongoing injury problems
He can barely train during the season due to injury problems
More and more teams are creating space in the inside line with players moving into that space which lawlor doesnt have the speed for case and point conor McDonald v wexford.
Over the years I think youll find lawlors direct opponent was very rarely held scoreless in a game often getting between 2 and 4 point's from play from him as well as winning a couple of free's.
I cannot offer a different option for FB however I will say that replacing him with Dungarvan's Kevin Daly may only be replacing lawlor with lawlor as he does not have the pace for intercounty hurling at present.0 -
I have great time for lawlor but for a couple of reason's I dont disagree with removing him
He hasnt had a pre season in 3 years due to ongoing injury problems
He can barely train during the season due to injury problems
More and more teams are creating space in the inside line with players moving into that space which lawlor doesnt have the speed for case and point conor McDonald v wexford.
Over the years I think youll find lawlors direct opponent was very rarely held scoreless in a game often getting between 2 and 4 point's from play from him as well as winning a couple of free's.
I cannot offer a different option for FB however I will say that replacing him with Dungarvan's Kevin Daly may only be replacing lawlor with lawlor as he does not have the pace for intercounty hurling at present.
I'd agree with all of this, but any time we've tried someone else at full back we ship 3 or 4 goals. Fived or Bourke might be a better option, but a bigger problem is the tactics we're using that put us on the backfoot from the throwin.0 -
Who ever they decide to go with I think they just need to make the decision early and let the player there, Shane Fives and Daragh Fives both like to attack the ball which is both a positive and a negative for a full back.
The tactics are an issue but I think its the execution of the tactics is the key point, a high pressure game where opposition half back in particular dont have time to play the perfect ball into the full forward line is important, the withdrawl of players is fine in theory to clog up the space. However the players arent located optimally and hence there is still space for the forwards. Another negative of withdrawing the players and crowding the defence is it results in players not going 100% for the ball as they think the spare man will get it.
Also when we do turn the ball over we need to break at speed ala clare and donegal with runners coming at various angles to occupy loose defenders and create space. No disrespect but Brian O Sullivan is not the man to lead the line in this tactic as his offloading ability and vision is not to the level required however his pace could be very well utilised in this system. Its a bit of a radical suggestion but tom devine could fulfill this role well with his athleticism and from what ive seen reasonable level of vision and distribution skills.0 -
Darren Duggan is being added as 3rd choice keeper and Seanie Barry is deemed surplus to requirements. Its obvious Dan has a big say in the selection process if his own clubmate is not being considered! But then if rumours are to be believed things are anything but good in that club at the moment so anything is possible!
With all the culling of older/experienced players isn't it amazing Shane Sullivan has still made the cut? Then that was always going to happen wasn't it!
Finally we're led to believe that Fintan O Connor(Cappoquin trainer) is the 3rd selector and will also become u21 manager.
You are well informed as this is what I have heard also from a good source. Fintan O Connor was interviewed about position earlier this week. Big loss to Cappoquin if he has to go. Pity about Seanie Barry as he is a top keeper IMO0 -
You are well informed as this is what I have heard also from a good source. Fintan O Connor was interviewed about position earlier this week. Big loss to Cappoquin if he has to go. Pity about Seanie Barry as he is a top keeper IMO
Well from what I can gather all is not as it should be in Lismore and the dispute that's going on there has been carried on to the county panel. Again its only rumours but,and no disrespect to Darren Duggan who is a fine keeper but my personal opinion would be Barry would be ahead of him in the pecking order. Definitely things aren't good in the club there so it should be interesting to see how it pans out.0 -
Who ever they decide to go with I think they just need to make the decision early and let the player there, Shane Fives and Daragh Fives both like to attack the ball which is both a positive and a negative for a full back.
The tactics are an issue but I think its the execution of the tactics is the key point, a high pressure game where opposition half back in particular dont have time to play the perfect ball into the full forward line is important, the withdrawl of players is fine in theory to clog up the space. However the players arent located optimally and hence there is still space for the forwards. Another negative of withdrawing the players and crowding the defence is it results in players not going 100% for the ball as they think the spare man will get it.
Also when we do turn the ball over we need to break at speed ala clare and donegal with runners coming at various angles to occupy loose defenders and create space. No disrespect but Brian O Sullivan is not the man to lead the line in this tactic as his offloading ability and vision is not to the level required however his pace could be very well utilised in this system. Its a bit of a radical suggestion but tom devine could fulfill this role well with his athleticism and from what ive seen reasonable level of vision and distribution skills.
If this is the type of game we're trying to implement then either the players aren't suitable for it or training to implement it isn't going very well.
It could be a case of lads not buying into it as well though, or as you say in the case of BOS just not being able to do it.
We've had a year under this type of system and I've seen little to suggest it's working or any improvement is in sight by continuing to try to implement it. It's also cat to watch. Hopefully it turns around, but I wouldn't be holding my breath.0 -
Some interesting rumours circulating. Seems you are very well informed from what I hear. If Lismore does not gets its act together other clubs are watching with a view to recruiting from Lismore. My own club will be glad to to take some recruits as will another senior club from outside the county. Lismore would want to get its act together fast. It has not got much time to sort this out according to what I am hearing from a couple of sources.Well from what I can gather all is not as it should be in Lismore and the dispute that's going on there has been carried on to the county panel. Again its only rumours but,and no disrespect to Darren Duggan who is a fine keeper but my personal opinion would be Barry would be ahead of him in the pecking order. Definitely things aren't good in the club there so it should be interesting to see how it pans out.0 -
Some interesting rumours circulating. Seems you are very well informed from what I hear. If Lismore does not gets its act together other clubs are watching with a view to recruiting from Lismore. My own club will be glad to to take some recruits as will another senior club from outside the county. Lismore would want to get its act together fast. It has not got much time to sort this out according to what I am hearing from a couple of sources.
What seems to the the problem in Lismore?0 -
I have great time for lawlor but for a couple of reason's I dont disagree with removing him
He hasnt had a pre season in 3 years due to ongoing injury problems
He can barely train during the season due to injury problems
More and more teams are creating space in the inside line with players moving into that space which lawlor doesnt have the speed for case and point conor McDonald v wexford.
Over the years I think youll find lawlors direct opponent was very rarely held scoreless in a game often getting between 2 and 4 point's from play from him as well as winning a couple of free's.
I cannot offer a different option for FB however I will say that replacing him with Dungarvan's Kevin Daly may only be replacing lawlor with lawlor as he does not have the pace for intercounty hurling at present.
I dont think there is anybody outside of the current panel that would be good enough to come to the fullback position, Sean O'Hare and Kevin Daly probably the two closest, I think we will be fixing the position with a square peg into a round hole though by putting somebody in there0 -
The Waterford County Board in conjunction with the World Health Organisation have issued a warning to males living in the greater Dungravan and Nire Valley area as to the dangers of a localised agressive ageing process.
This agressive ageing process is known to have had adverse effects on males in these areas having an enduring successful intercounty hurling career.
Both organisations are also investigating reports from one other particular area in Waterford which definitly shows signs to the contrary where males of the same age are immune to this aggressive ageing process.
It is not known if these males are actually benefitting from a placebo effect whereby they know there are immune to ever being dropped off the inter county hurling panel under the present management or if indeed they are truly retards to the process.
A County Board spokesman said that all ex De La Salle pupils presently on the intercounty hurling panel had previously distinguished themselves in the young Derek competition and now as a result have been vaccinated against all upcoming sickenings, unlike every other panellist.0 -
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3 year plan we were told at the start of last year but yet after year 1 we have 2 of the selection committee jumping ship. Was that a case of that they just had enough or had they only committed to one year? If it is the latter then it doesn't say much about the long term strategy of McGrath and if it is that they just jumped ship then what's that telling us? You would at least think that if he's putting a backroom team together he would at least get people that are going to commit to the plan with him and not leave at the first opportunity. Its saying alot when numerous people have been approached and declined the gig until finally Fintan O Connor was stumbled upon and "interviewed" for the position. So what we're to buy into so is instead of a proven all Ireland winning manager(Maher) we're now blessed to have a waterpark rugby man who has won an intermediate club championship on his CV and is now going to be the man to lead us to the next level?0
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Brilliantly put!Alf Tupper wrote: »The Waterford County Board in conjunction with the World Health Organisation have issued a warning to males living in the greater Dungravan and Nire Valley area as to the dangers of a localised agressive ageing process.
This agressive ageing process is known to have had adverse effects on males in these areas having an enduring successful intercounty hurling career.
Both organisations are also investigating reports from one other particular area in Waterford which definitly shows signs to the contrary where males of the same age are immune to this aggressive ageing process.
It is not known if these males are actually benefitting from a placebo effect whereby they know there are immune to ever being dropped off the inter county hurling panel under the present management or if indeed they are truly retards to the process.
A County Board spokesman said that all ex De La Salle pupils presently on the intercounty hurling panel had previously distinguished themselves in the young Derek competition and now as a result have been vaccinated against all upcoming sickenings, unlike every other panellist.0 -
I am not happy with the situation but Cul Beag you are putting such a spin on things that it's hard to take you seriously sometimes. You obviously have good sources but still I dunno is it fair to look down on some achievements the way you would.
Maher won a minor all ireland with a very good Tipp team. Sean Power did the same thing last year, and yet if he'd replaced Maher in the setup I have no doubt you'd be having a go at him but using a different angle then "experienced minor winning manager". As a selector, I think that is decent experience but I don't managing a bunch of 16-18 year olds is anywhere akin to Senior management experience.
While I wouldn't want him taking over as the sole coach of Waterford, Fintan O Connor has more experience than you make out. He was Senior manager of Fourmilewater from 2010 until last year, in which they made the quarters 3 times and the semis once. He also coaches down in Blackwater college. That's more than 'just an intermediate' which is not an immediately dismissable achievement either.
It might not be Limerick's Ger Cunningham but to be fair he is enthusiastic and young as well and has a lot of experience. It's not like he was plucked from a Rugby coach and thrown straight into a position with Waterford. And something worth noting would be Wexford having Sean O Brien involved with them last year. Obviously that was purely from a S & C point of view, but it's no harm to have people of different backgrounds who might be able to add something to the panel.
Who exactly would you be suggesting they bring in?0 -
The famous three year plan was just a mechanism to insulate against bad results the first year. It was an effort to buy time as Derek McGrath sought to learn how to manage a Senior Inter County team. He has learned nothing as evidenced by this week's fiasco. Neither has anybody else involved in selecting the new panel. What a shambles!3 year plan we were told at the start of last year but yet after year 1 we have 2 of the selection committee jumping ship. Was that a case of that they just had enough or had they only committed to one year? If it is the latter then it doesn't say much about the long term strategy of McGrath and if it is that they just jumped ship then what's that telling us? You would at least think that if he's putting a backroom team together he would at least get people that are going to commit to the plan with him and not leave at the first opportunity. Its saying alot when numerous people have been approached and declined the gig until finally Fintan O Connor was stumbled upon and "interviewed" for the position. So what we're to buy into so is instead of a proven all Ireland winning manager(Maher) we're now blessed to have a waterpark rugby man who has won an intermediate club championship on his CV and is now going to be the man to lead us to the next level?0 -
Derek McGrath coached De La Salle. It is one thing to coach a colleges team. It is quite another to coach an inter county senior hurling team WITH SUCCESS. We have a right mess on our hands in Waterford now. Failure at intercounty senior level will hit the finances of the Co. Board badly. It will also hit interest in club games. You have got to admit it. This is a shambles.Mountainlad wrote: »I am not happy with the situation but Cul Beag you are putting such a spin on things that it's hard to take you seriously sometimes. You obviously have good sources but still I dunno is it fair to look down on some achievements the way you would.
Maher won a minor all ireland with a very good Tipp team. Sean Power did the same thing last year, and yet if he'd replaced Maher in the setup I have no doubt you'd be having a go at him but using a different angle then "experienced minor winning manager". As a selector, I think that is decent experience but I don't managing a bunch of 16-18 year olds is anywhere akin to Senior management experience.
While I wouldn't want him taking over as the sole coach of Waterford, Fintan O Connor has more experience than you make out. He was Senior manager of Fourmilewater from 2010 until last year, in which they made the quarters 3 times and the semis once. He also coaches down in Blackwater college. That's more than 'just an intermediate' which is not an immediately dismissable achievement either.
It might not be Limerick's Ger Cunningham but to be fair he is enthusiastic and young as well and has a lot of experience. It's not like he was plucked from a Rugby coach and thrown straight into a position with Waterford. And something worth noting would be Wexford having Sean O Brien involved with them last year. Obviously that was purely from a S & C point of view, but it's no harm to have people of different backgrounds who might be able to add something to the panel.
Who exactly would you be suggesting they bring in?0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I am not happy with the situation but Cul Beag you are putting such a spin on things that it's hard to take you seriously sometimes. You obviously have good sources but still I dunno is it fair to look down on some achievements the way you would.
Maher won a minor all ireland with a very good Tipp team. Sean Power did the same thing last year, and yet if he'd replaced Maher in the setup I have no doubt you'd be having a go at him but using a different angle then "experienced minor winning manager". As a selector, I think that is decent experience but I don't managing a bunch of 16-18 year olds is anywhere akin to Senior management experience.
While I wouldn't want him taking over as the sole coach of Waterford, Fintan O Connor has more experience than you make out. He was Senior manager of Fourmilewater from 2010 until last year, in which they made the quarters 3 times and the semis once. He also coaches down in Blackwater college. That's more than 'just an intermediate' which is not an immediately dismissable achievement either.
It might not be Limerick's Ger Cunningham but to be fair he is enthusiastic and young as well and has a lot of experience. It's not like he was plucked from a Rugby coach and thrown straight into a position with Waterford. And something worth noting would be Wexford having Sean O Brien involved with them last year. Obviously that was purely from a S & C point of view, but it's no harm to have people of different backgrounds who might be able to add something to the panel.
Who exactly would you be suggesting they bring in?
Fourmilewater for 4 years? Blackwater college? Is that the sum total? Q/finals and 1 semi final? Christ im bowled over with excitement. If he was that good wouldn't you think he would have moved on to a better club team? No disrespect to Cappoquin but im sure he was hoping for a bigger gig after his"success" with fourmilewater if he is that good. I bet if he was to be honest the Waterford selectors job was the furthest from his mind. What have Blackwater done at Harty level? Nothing,that's what. Sean O Brien's presence and professionalism would inspire any squad,do you think Fintan O Connor will? Do you think he's the man for the position and if so was he first choice?
As for Sean Power fairplay to him for winning the minor all Ireland and would have been used to dealing with some of these lads so absolutely nothing against the chap.
Proven,successful coaches from within the county such as Sean Prendergast, James O Connor would be my choices. Would they get involved? I doubt it under the current set up! Bottom line is he's struggling to get quality people in with him because in this coaching/management roles people in those circles do talk so you can be sure the feedback was anything but good.0 -
Fourmilewater for 4 years? Blackwater college? Is that the sum total? Q/finals and 1 semi final? Christ im bowled over with excitement. If he was that good wouldn't you think he would have moved on to a better club team? No disrespect to Cappoquin but im sure he was hoping for a bigger gig after his"success" with fourmilewater if he is that good. I bet if he was to be honest the Waterford selectors job was the furthest from his mind. What have Blackwater done at Harty level? Nothing,that's what. Sean O Brien's presence and professionalism would inspire any squad,do you think Fintan O Connor will? Do you think he's the man for the position and if so was he first choice?
As for Sean Power fairplay to him for winning the minor all Ireland and would have been used to dealing with some of these lads so absolutely nothing against the chap.
Proven,successful coaches from within the county such as Sean Prendergast, James O Connor would be my choices. Would they get involved? I doubt it under the current set up! Bottom line is he's struggling to get quality people in with him because in this coaching/management roles people in those circles do talk so you can be sure the feedback was anything but good.
How much experience did Maher have besides the All Ireland minor winning team?
I'm not saying that he's brilliant but it's just typical of everybody who has been involved pretty much in the last two managements has been written off at some point. Not obviously all by you but somebody has a problem with everybody that gets involved.
Some of the doubts may have proved right but it's everyone nearly being called into question even go back as far as Davy Fitz and look at the below list:
Pat Bennett
Peter Queally
Davy Fitzgerald
Brother Ryan
Nicky Cashin
Ray Murphy
Pat Flanagan (I was shocked when I read that one)
Michael Ryan
Derek McGrath
Dan Shanahan
And I'd say there were even some questions asked of Maher and Flannery last year.
A fair few mistakes have been made to date. Michael Ryan's tenure started out very similarly although they were in a better place at the end of year 1. There was all the same disharmony in the camp and the whole thing is a shambles going on as well but the difference was it quietened down a bit once the league started to go really well for us in year 2. But there was plenty waiting for one bad result to go in with the same misgivings.
I don't argue the point that things look pretty bad, but do we really have to have a go at everyone now that will join the backroom team before they even get a chance?
Also I see in that physical trainer Keith Hennessey has left. Never heard of this guy, does anyone know anything about him?0 -
Very goodAlf Tupper wrote: »The Waterford County Board in conjunction with the World Health Organisation have issued a warning to males living in the greater Dungravan and Nire Valley area as to the dangers of a localised agressive ageing process.
This agressive ageing process is known to have had adverse effects on males in these areas having an enduring successful intercounty hurling career.
Both organisations are also investigating reports from one other particular area in Waterford which definitly shows signs to the contrary where males of the same age are immune to this aggressive ageing process.
It is not known if these males are actually benefitting from a placebo effect whereby they know there are immune to ever being dropped off the inter county hurling panel under the present management or if indeed they are truly retards to the process.
A County Board spokesman said that all ex De La Salle pupils presently on the intercounty hurling panel had previously distinguished themselves in the young Derek competition and now as a result have been vaccinated against all upcoming sickenings, unlike every other panellist.0 -
Blackwater were narrowly beaten in 2013 by the all conquering Dungarvan team in the Harty QF without an injured Steven Bennett. Don't know why we have to be down on the new selector already. Nobody said anything of Flannery and Maher really till there gone and now they are great fellas. Altho one poster did call Maher a Tipp b****x but other than that not much imput.
The gag on the west thing is fine but it overlooks the fact that the majority of talent coming into the team is also from the west.
Support in general for the Waterford Senior hurling team took a massive blow after 2008. Even tho 2009-2012 teams were fairly strong and very competitive against serious Tipp and Kilkenny teams they weren't fully supported (check attendence figures for the period), 2008 left a massive imprint on the casual fan. In 2013 we lost Mullane Kelly and the excellent Mahony and Molumphy Midfield partnership, a cull way more significant than this week but we managed to recover some ground almost squeezing out the Cats. This year may have been a right off but we have seen glimpses of some serious talent and fitness issues will hardly be as bad again. It may recover all of a sudden with one significant performance, we'll see.
Selectoral merry-go-round is nothing new unfortunatly and we should be aware of that fact. Previous Waterford managers that have gone on to other jobs have had serious issues with opt outs!! (be it several All Ireland medal winners in Clare or whole teams in other counties).
It dosen't take much imagination to pick a excellent Waterford team with what we've got, whether the imagination is there at the moment I don't know, I can only hope.
There is still 22/23 of the best players in the county available out of a match day 26. There will also be one or two suprise packages 'doing a Dunford'.
Hope remains and I hope Molumphy and Brick remain too.0 -
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Some serious agendas here against Derek McGrath and the posters involved have nothing good to say about any hurling man in waterford unless they have the same second name as themselves.
First the Waterford set-up was a joke now Lismore need to get their act together, f*cks sake lads it's pathetic why don't ye just send each other a text message?
The bitterness is incredible nothing good to say about anything or anybody.
He need a break from it all, why don't ye give boards and hurling a rest for a while and head away somewhere nice for the summer and forget about hurling - all that negativity can't be good[/
Would you recommend Tallow for a seasonal break slobs?!!That's where the real bitterness is I'd say what do you think?!!!!0
This discussion has been closed.
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