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What DO you think
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Princess Peach wrote: »I will agree. They might say they did it somewhere it was legal, and she was clean and not trafficked and not on drugs and chose her job, but its still supporting an industry I really dislike.
The only reason prostitution gets lumped in with trafficking and drugs is because in a lot of the world it is illegal. When you make things illegal it forces them underground where it mixes with all the other nastiness down there. Prostitution, trafficking and drugs are entirely separate things and judging a person who used a consensual prostitute in a legal and clean setting on the merits of the others would be as insane as judging a doctor on the same level as a street drug dealer because they both supply the same stuff.mariaalice wrote: »Its okay to say I am for legalising prostitution, but I would not want my father, my son, or my lover to have used a prostitute and it is okay to say I would not want my daughter or sister to be a prostitute, yes those position do contradict each other and you should be called on it, but at least it is honest.
Those positions do not contradict each other. I have no problem with prostitution but I wouldn't want my sister to do it. It's a hazardous job, you open yourself up to STD's, unwanted pregnancy and violence from customers. Even in a fully regulated industry you can only minimise those risks. The same way I wouldn't want my sister to be a bouncer in a night club or any other job with dangerous occupational hazards. Nothing to do with the perception of prostitutes being scum.Princess Peach wrote: »I just don't like an industry that has a high rate of crime, rape, violence and abuse of humans. I know that these aren't affecting everyone involved in it, but it is common enough for me to not like it as a whole. It's not going to go away, and I'm not going to try and change that, but I still won't ever support it.
Again this is because it is illegal in most countries. If it was regulated the instances of crime related activities would drastically reduce. Using the example above do you have an issue with the security industry? Bouncers and security guards encounter an above average amount of criminal activity going about their business so based on those conditions do you not support the security industry? Crazy logic
mariaalice wrote: »I think what's at the heart of the argument is this idea of an entitlement to sex and if you cant get It by being in a relationship well then you just pay for it, lots of men ( and women ) with strongly sexual personalities and who are secure in their attractiveness to the opposite sex spend years being celibate not by choice but by circumstance and they do not pay for use of a prostitute, thats often forgotten about I think.
You are the only one who used the word entitlement. Nobody is entitled to sex. But who are you to judge someone who can't get it through conventional means? The example of the disabled guy who's mother set him up with an escort, do you think he is scum for using it, or the mother scum for setting it up?
So what if some attractive people who can't find sex don't opt for the prostitute option, some do, it's not forgotten about it's irrelevant.His attitude to women would concern me more. There are plenty of guys who use money to control women, or to punch above their weight in the dating pool. I wouldn't like that attitude at all because I want to be seen as an equal. If they looked at women as something to be bought and sold, or had a poor opinion of them or felt that money was the way to get and keep a girlfriend then I wouldn't respect them. For me it's less about the act and more about the overall view of women.
You are putting your views on other people. How do you know all guys, or even many guys use prostitution as a means to control women? And "punch above their weight in the dating pool", seriously. What a conceited thing to say. I too wouldn't like any of those traits in a boyfriend, but why are you applying any of those traits to a guy who uses prostitutes? Sure, some of them might do it to feel a sense of control, but you cannot say they all do or even any sort of majority.This speaks volumes about the guys attitude to women. He probably treats women from the dating site in the same way. He was telling you in not so many words that he only stays with a woman until he gets fed up with her and then moves onto the next one. I daresay if you went on another date with this guy he would expect sex. There's nothing wrong with that but I don't like his attitude to women, he seems to see them as commodities.
All this speaks volumes about is the attitude the OP ascribed to the guy. There is nothing wrong with someone only seeing someone for a couple of weeks and then leaving them because they don't have the qualities they want. This is just as likely as the views the OP ascribed to the man. He could be a pig, I have no idea. But based on the facts presented I've been given no reason to believe he is.It indicates that he doesn't respect women, as far as I'm concerned. And it shows an attitude to sex itself that I'm not comfortable with.
I'm not a prude, but I believe sex should, at the very least, be something that both parties enjoy. If a woman is only doing it because she's being paid, then regardless of why she chose to participate, it bothers me. It may not be a traumatic experience for her but it does indicate that a man who pays for it thinks that his 'need' for sex is so important that it comes above having a completely willing partner.
How does paying for sex show a lack of respect for women? If a lesbian pays for sex with a woman does that mean she doesn't have respect for women? Or a woman with a man? Or a man with a man? Or does it simply mean they need less of a personal connection from sex to get off? Even if (and that's a big if) paying for sex showed a lack of respect for the prostitute then surely it only shows a lack of respect for that person. Why would you assume it colours their opinion of an entire gender?
No matter how much you try to beat around it saying that a person who is being paid to have sex is not willing because they are being paid is saying the person paying them is raping them. You can jump around that all you like, but that is what you said.I'm not judgemental in the slightest
:rolleyes:Prostitutes is a bit different but when somebody puts in more effort visiting hookers than finding even friends with benefits relationship then alarm bells would start to ring on my end. It would be hard for me to believe that somebody like that can be in a committed relationship.
Why is one of these things worse than the other
Surely both are just meaningless sex so why does it matter if they pay to do it or do it with a friend. Maybe they don't believe that two people can really be friends and have a sexual relationship, why would that have any bearing whatsoever on their ability to be in a committed relationship?
Sorry about the long post, I just think some of the views in this thread are shockingly narrow minded.0 -
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Yes, to your first three questions. And if they need less of a personal connection then fair enough. As I've said, it does however mean that their attitude to sex is then incompatible with mine.
There's no proof that their attitude to an entire gender is coloured, but it's enough of an indication to give me reservations.
I am not accusing someone who pays for sex of raping someone. I've already clarified that by 'completely willing', I meant that they wouldn't sleep with the man if there was no money involved.
Analogy time.
Say I'm getting married. I invite all my cousins. They all show up and have a wonderful time but I subsequently find out that one of them only came because his mother (my aunt) paid him €50 to do so.
I would be deeply hurt to learn that the only reason they were there is because they got paid to show up. Even if they enjoyed themselves, it would sour the entire experience.
I view sex the same way. It's more than just something physical. I'd want to know that anyone in my bed is there because they want me, even if it's just for that night. And if I'm going to enter into a relationship with a man, I want him to hold similar views and values. I don't want to be with someone who desires sex so much that he doesn't care about the reason a woman is having sex with him.
You outright ignored my first question so I'll ask it again, how does paying for sex show a lack of respect for women?
How is it any indication of how they view an entire gender?
I'll make an extreme example to try and get across my meaning. If a man rapes a woman it does not show a lack of respect for women, it shows a serious lack of respect for the woman that was raped. If somebody does something bad (not saying prostitution is bad, just making that point that even if you think it is) to a person it does not mean they have no respect to all groups that person belongs too. That is a logical fallacy, non sequitur.
You hint that one night stands are fine, but if it's a one night stand then surely the other person was only really interested in sex and not really you? If they were interested in you then they would want to stick around longer than one night. I'm not seeing much difference between that and just paying for a one night stand. Or if the one night stand is your choice then how is that any different to you paying for it, if you were really interested in the other person involved then you would want them to stick around, right?
And don't say prostitutes have no choice in who they take to bed because they do (except where force and were obviously not discussing that because it's a different issue all together). They will pick the best option available to them just like a person in a nightclub who is only there with the intention of picking someone up.
Why is it different?Oh give me a break... We all have different priorities. I also wouldn't date serial dole offender, someone who has extreme religious views or even someone who I think is much dumber than I am. Does that make me judgemental? Possibly but I have to judge who would make me happy. And I don't believe that someone who takes his wallet out as soon as he has an itch that needs to be scratched is a man for me. As I don't think someone who gets hammered whenever there is a problem in his life is a man for me. Some don't date people who are overweight, underweight, are missing a tooth, are short, tall or whatever. You think you might be so much more open minded but I bet you are dismissing potential partners in just as "judgemental" ways as everybody else here.
And the question is who would you date not are men who are using prostitutes scumbags.
Sure we do all have different priorities, but when you put yours on a public fora and they belittle a lot of people you can expect to be called out on it. Just as if someone said they don't date black people because they are afraid they might rob them then they can expect to be called out on it (extreme example for clarity). They are still perfectly entitled to hold they opinion but if they put that opinion in a public place they can expect to be called out as a racist. Just as with your posts, you say you choose a partner based on something that makes no logical sense and belittles a lot of people you can expect to be called out as narrow minded.
Also who says he has to pull out his wallet every time he has an itch that needs to be scratched? The question in the OP was would you lose interest in a man who admitted to being with a prostitute? It may have been only once on a stag night just out of curiosity? Would that make a difference? Or is it only people who compulsively sleep with prostitutes you take issue with, because that would be a bit more understandable.
Would you dismiss someone as a potential partner who ever had a one night stand? Or had lots of them?I'd suggest you actually read my posts before calling my views narrow minded. I did not associate the attitude I mentioned with prostitution. I said that to me, a potential partners attitude towards women bothers me more than whether or not he used prostitutes.
I said some men use money to control women. I saw my father do it to my mother for years and they were married. Again, nothing to do with prostitution and everything to do with control and an attitude towards women. Punching above their weight in the dating pool, come on!! Everyone knows that a rich man can pull someone younger and prettier than if he had no money. I'm not saying every man does and it's down to the women involved aswell, but a rich man can do much better in the dating world (in terms of youth and attractiveness) than if he were on an average wage. You really think all those young models would go for Hugh Heffner if he worked in Tesco?
You associated my comments with men who use prostitutes whereas I was discussing men in general who have a crappy attitude towards women.
It's easy to see narrow mindedness when you choose not to read posts properly or subsequent posts.
I apologise for assuming you were applying your views to all men who use prostitutes, but in a thread discussing men using prostitutes I hope you can see why it would have been logical to assume. Some men do have crappy attitudes towards women, I completely agree. Not sure how it's relevant to the thread at hand tho
Since you use youthfulness and attractiveness to gauge success in the dating world I'm not taking back the conceited comment. It's a pretty sad way to look at things. Most men I know would have no interest in a relationship with a lot of those models if their personalities didn't stack up. A one night stand, sure but a relationship, no. Some would, but most wouldn't. I know the small pool of men I know isn't a great sample size but until I see evidence to the contrary that's what I'll continue to assume is true.0 -
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Of course it does. People who respect women don't rape them. That is inconceivably asinine.
Thanks so much for stopping by to give us all a lesson in logic. I might take it in a better spirit if you weren't saying such stupid stuff.
Well you obviously didn't take it if all you can come back with is you're stupid...
I'll take the argument away from women completely and strip it right down. If I punch an asian person if the face does that mean I hate asian people? Of course not, Just because I dislike one person does not mean that I dislike all people of any category you care to list them under. Does that explain how the logic does not follow?Your whole one night stand analogy rests on the false assumption that there is no difference between a one night stand and an encounter with a prostitute. If you really can't see the difference I feel sorry for you. Here's a suggestion though, next time you have a one night stand, after you've done the business, offer your partner some money and make like you're leaving. See how she reacts.
I won't be doing that anytime soon because 1) I'm in a committed relation ship, have been for many years. 2) I was never a fan of one night stands, only ever had one and didn't have much interested in doing it again. 3) I'm female and not gay so never really had much interested in women.
I stated that I personally see no difference in an attempt to question why it is different if people actually think it is. Sorry if I didn't make that clear so I'll ask directly, why is it different? Saying I feel sorry for you does answer that. Neither does saying hand a one night stand money and see how they react. Handing someone money after sex is the same as calling them a prostitute and in our culture that is a dirty word and is considered an insult. The reaction does not imply that the sex had any meaning to that person or that they ever had any interested in you other than sex. (some people have one night stands seeking a relationship, that is obviously not the scenario I'm referring to here).
Because I'm not interested in one night stands doesn't mean I would judge my partner for having any.I don't think it was logical to assume at all. You read what you wanted to read.
So in a thread discussing prostitution you think it was illogical to assume someone was talking about prostitution 0 -
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Tiddlypeeps wrote: »So in a thread discussing prostitution you think it was illogical to assume someone was talking about prostitution
If you read my post properly you would have seen that I was saying that personally the act of sex with a prostitute would concern me less than a potential partners attitude towards women.
So if he's a jackass who has no respect for women but has never been to a prostitute, that is more offputting to me than a man who is decent, kind and respectful who has had sex with a prostitute. I thought it was fairly clear.0 -
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Tiddlypeeps wrote: »Well you obviously didn't take it if all you can come back with is you're stupid...
"You're saying stupid stuff" is not the same as "You're stupid." Saying that raping a woman doesn't mean a man doesn't respect women is stupid. Part of respecting people is not raping them. I don't understand how you don't get that.
You jumped into this thread and started acting aggressively and claiming people were being illogical while completely failing to read or comprehend what they actually wrote. It's a bit arrogant to be lecturing to us all in such a condescending manner about what a non sequitur is when your own logic is so flawed.Tiddlypeeps wrote: »I'll take the argument away from women completely and strip it right down. If I punch an asian person if the face does that mean I hate asian people? Of course not, Just because I dislike one person does not mean that I dislike all people of any category you care to list them under. Does that explain how the logic does not follow?
Punching an Asian person in the face =/= rape. This is another of your false analogies isn't it?
Thanks for the bio, but you're missing the point again. One night stands and visiting prostitutes are not the same thing.Tiddlypeeps wrote: »I won't be doing that anytime soon because 1) I'm in a committed relation ship, have been for many years. 2) I was never a fan of one night stands, only ever had one and didn't have much interested in doing it again. 3) I'm female and not gay so never really had much interested in women.Tiddlypeeps wrote: »I stated that I personally see no difference in an attempt to question why it is different if people actually think it is.
Other posters have explained this already but in a consensual ons each partner is equal. One is not working for the other. One is not the client whose needs are the priority. Both parties are engaging in a mutually pleasurable activity. They may not be planning to repeat the experience but they can at least know that they're both equally into it and not just doing it because it's their job.
Nope. I think it was illogical to assume that someone said something they didn't say.Tiddlypeeps wrote: »So in a thread discussing prostitution you think it was illogical to assume someone was talking about prostitutionHis attitude to women would concern me more. There are plenty of guys who use money to control women, or to punch above their weight in the dating pool. I wouldn't like that attitude at all because I want to be seen as an equal. If they looked at women as something to be bought and sold, or had a poor opinion of them or felt that money was the way to get and keep a girlfriend then I wouldn't respect them. For me it's less about the act and more about the overall view of women.
Please explain to me how it's logical to assume that when someone says "plenty of guys" they actually mean "all men".
So to recap:
"You're saying stupid stuff" =/= "you're stupid"
Punching =/= rape
Casual sex =/= going to prostitutes
"Plenty of" =/= "all"
I'm going to add my voice to those of the other posters here who are asking you to pay closer attention to what they've written. If you can't do that then you could at least tone it down with the "ur logic sux" stuff because it's pretty disrespectful and I don't think you are justified in attacking anyone else's logic.0 -
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