Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

Hootanany

Is it true their a employees still clocking on everyday that refused the one man buses?

cdebru

Hootanany wrote: »

Is it true their a employees still clocking on everyday that refused the one man buses?

Not AFAIK there are people employed that would have been TPO, they are doing ticket machine repair, customer assistants in the airport, updating timetables at bus stops, doing surveys etc, but if the question is are there people just clocking on and going home then AFAIK no there aren't.

_Kaiser_

So last I heard on this (news sometime last week I think) the unions weren't too impressed and considering rejecting it? Is this still the case?

cdebru

Kaiser2000 wrote: »

So last I heard on this (news sometime last week I think) the unions weren't too impressed and considering rejecting it? Is this still the case?

I am not sure what you are talking about, the result of the LRC talks after the strike were rejected by the driving grade, after that the chairman of DB intervened and the company put forward a new document, which basically clarifies the rejected document plus adds one thing.
That document is being balloted on today and tomorrow, so we will know tomorrow evening what the result is.

rx8

Both unions have rejected the latest proposals, so I guess that means we'll be back on the gate next week.

liger

rx8 wrote: »

Both unions have rejected the latest proposals, so I guess that means we'll be back on the gate next week.

or make slight change to proposals and make drivers vote again.

Maybe this time unions will remove the option to vote no on the ballot.

Devilman40k

rx8 wrote: »

Both unions have rejected the latest proposals, so I guess that means we'll be back on the gate next week.

Any idea if/when you'll be back on the gate...

And seeing as its been rejected a second time, what will be acceptable to the drivers?

LuckyLloyd

rx8 wrote: »

Both unions have rejected the latest proposals, so I guess that means we'll be back on the gate next week.

I want to support you guys, but this is quite disappointing. Was really hoping it could be worked out.

end of the road

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Was really hoping it could be worked out.

it will be, the negotiations are just taking longer then expected, they will keep changing little things and keep putting it to the staff until they except which they eventually will, so not to worry, their more then likely won't be another strike

Cookie_Monster

The National Transport Authority (NTA) confirmed it had taken €423,000 from the bus company's public subvention, as it is only paid for services actually provided to the public.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-bus-funds-cut-over-strike-29565747.html

interesting occurrence.

cdebru

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/dublin-bus-funds-cut-over-strike-29565747.html

interesting occurrence.

Not really if you don't provide the service why would you expect subvention for it?
Besides, they saved money on fuel and wages for the 3 days, so they are probably still ahead.

cdebru

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

seems extreme, any source, link etc?

It is his first post so I would take it with a large pinch of salt, unlikely to happen this weekend, flight fest is on this weekend and the all Ireland is on the following Sunday, but you never know.

Cookie_Monster

cdebru wrote: »

Not really if you don't provide the service why would you expect subvention for it?
Besides, they saved money on fuel and wages for the 3 days, so they are probably still ahead.

I'm more surprised they actually did it!

end of the road

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

I'm more surprised they actually did it!

this was most likely done before the department of transport by proxy (sorry the no trains authority, sorry dublin transport authority, sorry national transport authority or whatever they call themselves these days) existed, we just wouldn't have heard about it as it would have been "an operational matter for the company"

hmmm

What happens if a semi-state goes bust - has it ever happened before?

BowWow

Only case I can think of is Irish Shipping.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Shipping

liger

hmmm wrote: »

What happens if a semi-state goes bust - has it ever happened before?

What if they let drivers strike, put the company in Dire-Straights, make all drivers redundant and claim they cant pay them, let the government pick up the tab and Hire/Re-hire drivers on new contracts. All drivers grade then on the terms the company want.

Would they try do that?

cdebru

liger wrote: »

What if they let drivers strike, put the company in Dire-Straights, make all drivers redundant and claim they cant pay them, let the government pick up the tab and Hire/Re-hire drivers on new contracts. All drivers grade then on the terms the company want.

Would they try do that?

FG might try it if left to their own devices, it would be a disaster for the Labour party but as they are F'ed anyway how much worse could it get ? Green party worse ?

It would be interesting to see them try it, I would guess it would get very nasty and protracted and you would have no city buses for a long time. Not to mention the signals it sends out, and the wider implications on industrial relations in the country, if it is ok for the government to do it then why can't any company do it in the face of any industrial dispute.

end of the road

liger wrote: »

What if they let drivers strike, put the company in Dire-Straights, make all drivers redundant and claim they cant pay them, let the government pick up the tab and Hire/Re-hire drivers on new contracts. All drivers grade then on the terms the company want.

Would they try do that?

would cost to much, we would be without a bus service for months while it happens and will mean less money going into the economy as the new drivers won't have hardly anything to spend, the current system is a good deal for the tax payer as it means a good chunk of money going back into the economy

cdebru

end of the road wrote: »

would cost to much, we would be without a bus service for months while it happens and will mean less money going into the economy as the new drivers won't have hardly anything to spend, the current system is a good deal for the tax payer as it means a good chunk of money going back into the economy

No the current deal is good for the government as they get to decide how much they will pay for subvention and free travel without having to deal with private companies who would not take that ****.

end of the road

cdebru wrote: »

No the current deal is good for the government as they get to decide how much they will pay for subvention and free travel without having to deal with private companies who would not take that ****.

fair point, can't disagree with that

cdebru

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0911/473525-dublin-bus/

Says a lot about the trade union leadership in DB that the government has to set up a group to find out why the trade union members are voting no.

CreepingDeath

cdebru wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0911/473525-dublin-bus/

Says a lot about the trade union leadership in DB that the government has to set up a group to find out why the trade union members are voting no.

Maybe the news that they're putting a few of the Dublin bus routes out to private tender in 2015 will make the drivers wake up and realise that if they don't accept the changes then maybe the govt will turn around put a higher percentage out to tender and start progressively privatising the lot.

cdebru

CreepingDeath wrote: »

Maybe the news that they're putting a few of the Dublin bus routes out to private tender in 2015 will make the drivers wake up and realise that if they don't accept the changes then maybe the govt will turn around put a higher percentage out to tender and start progressively privatising the lot.

What? like that is not going to happen either way ? It is all about the TUPE, transfer of undertakings at this stage, the more you give away the less you have to transfer, no point in trying to save DB from privatisation that is happening anyway it is a done deal.
The NTA let slip in their document yesterday that they want to avoid a transfer of undertakings, so they only want to transfer 10% and have DB redeploy staff, if the unions had any sense they would insist that the workers currently employed go with their routes as is their right under the transfer of undertakings. They will hold their pay rates, terms and conditions and union membership.
If they play the NTA game then the NTA will tender out, and the current employees will be redeployed and non union low paid workers will take their jobs and the NTA will hail it as a successful money saving device and use it as a stick to attack DB employees terms and conditions further and to roll out more tendering of routes.
Of course eventually they will get to the stage where DB can't redeploy and transfer of undertakings will have to happen or forced redundancy.

Tourman

liger wrote: »

What if they let drivers strike, put the company in Dire-Straights, make all drivers redundant and claim they cant pay them, let the government pick up the tab and Hire/Re-hire drivers on new contracts. All drivers grade then on the terms the company want.

Would they try do that?

That would not work as it would be unfair dismissal. If they re hire for the same job then the redundencies are not valid as the post which the person is employed to do is that which becomes redundant. Aer Lingus tried this and got them into trouble

Stevek101

It seems a possibility that Dublin Bus will not exist in its current form by 2016 if not 2014. Leo made it clear enough it'll be let go bang if this last ditch attempt doesn't work. Not need to worry about TUPE then...

cdebru

Stevek101 wrote: »

It seems a possibility that Dublin Bus will not exist in its current form by 2016 if not 2014. Leo made it clear enough it'll be let go bang if this last ditch attempt doesn't work. Not need to worry about TUPE then...

Let it go if thats what he wants to do, but he should hang on to his hat for the ensuing chaos. Just more threats in an attempt to browbeat people into voting yes.

I would say DB will not exist either way it is only a matter of time frame, my guess would be 2019 although it could drag out a little longer depending on how the tendering is rolled out.



Oh and btw liquidation doesn't get you out of TUPE if you liquidated to avoid TUPE.

Stevek101

I still can't understand how drivers think they will somehow get a better deal than what's on offer. It's been independently proven these changes are needed to keep the company afloat it is not an attack on working conditions.

Reject them and that is pretty much it for Dublin Bus in its current form. The company is simply not viable as it stands. In that case core pay will be affected and people will probably end up on the dole. I wouldn't be voting for that.

foggy_lad

Stevek101 wrote: »

I still can't understand how drivers think they will somehow get a better deal than what's on offer. It's been independently proven these changes are needed to keep the company afloat it is not an attack on working conditions.

Reject them and that is pretty much it for Dublin Bus in its current form. The company is simply not viable as it stands. In that case core pay will be affected and people will probably end up on the dole. I wouldn't be voting for that.

What some seem to think is that if another company forms or takes on any of the routes that DB used to serve than this company will have to employ all the DB staff that worked those routes at their DB rates of pay and with the same conditions:D:D:D

Stevek101

foggy_lad wrote: »

What some seem to think is that if another company forms or takes on any of the routes that DB used to serve than this company will have to employ all the DB staff that worked those routes at their DB rates of pay and with the same conditions:D:D:D

And if that were true we wouldn't be in the place we are now...