Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

cdebru

markpb wrote: »

Could you provide one, non-ideological reason why a Dublin Bus driver should get paid more than his counterpart in Swords Express or Finnegans? They do the same job, in the same city, with the same unsociable hours.

What are those drivers paid ?

No offence to these drivers, I don't know anyone driving for them, but an awful lot of the drivers driving for private companies are ex CIE either retired or shown the door for various reasons.

Seriously if DB wages and conditions are so much better why were these people driving for private companies when DB was crying out for staff ??

devnull

Latest news:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uncertainty-over-dublin-bus-services-1.1498030

Dravokivich

I think they are just throwing more wood into the fire. Unless DB states changes to conditions of employment are coming in at a set date, which the unions don't agree to, there's very little chance of disruption.

bmaxi

devnull wrote: »

Latest news:
http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/uncertainty-over-dublin-bus-services-1.1498030

"One of the sticking points relates to drivers’ schedules. Drivers are concerned about reduced services during quiet periods hitting their weekly pay"

I don't understand this point. Dublin Bus has said that core pay will not be affected. Core pay, by nature of the job involved would include shift allowance, so how exactly is this going to apply?

Dravokivich

bmaxi wrote: »

"One of the sticking points relates to drivers’ schedules. Drivers are concerned about reduced services during quiet periods hitting their weekly pay"

I don't understand this point. Dublin Bus has said that core pay will not be affected. Core pay, by nature of the job involved would include shift allowance, so how exactly is this going to apply?

That all depends on what's understood by "core." A lot of businesses would consider their Core hours to be from 8am to 6pm. I'm unsure what's stipulated by the time range within DB, but my Da can have starts that range from as early as 6AM, or finishes that can be as late as after midnight when returning the bus to a depot. The problem could be that a lot of drivers would do a substantial amount of their work outside of the core times, even within their normal shift.

LXFlyer

Dravokivich wrote: »

That all depends on what's understood by "core." A lot of businesses would consider their Core hours to be from 8am to 6pm. I'm unsure what's stipulated by the time range within DB, but my Da can have starts that range from as early as 6AM, or finishes that can be as late as after midnight when returning the bus to a depot. The problem could be that a lot of drivers would do a substantial amount of their work outside of the core times, even within their normal shift.

The agreement stated that basic pay would not be affected - that has nothing to do with what time of day they are driving.

bmaxi

Dravokivich wrote: »

That all depends on what's understood by "core." A lot of businesses would consider their Core hours to be from 8am to 6pm. I'm unsure what's stipulated by the time range within DB, but my Da can have starts that range from as early as 6AM, or finishes that can be as late as after midnight when returning the bus to a depot. The problem could be that a lot of drivers would do a substantial amount of their work outside of the core times, even within their normal shift.

Core pay, to my mind, is what you can reasonably expect to be paid in any given pay period, excluding overtime. DB operates over a two shift system so whether or not you start at 6am or finish at midnight, you should expect the same pay including shift allowance. I'm curious as to what is in the proposals that changes this.

CatFromHue

So what's the point of the Labour Court then?

This could back to kick SIPTU in the back side sometime I fear i.e. if a company doesn't do what the Labour Court recommends they won't be able to say much then.

BowWow

Have a load of posts dropped off this thread?

cdebru

bmaxi wrote: »

"One of the sticking points relates to drivers’ schedules. Drivers are concerned about reduced services during quiet periods hitting their weekly pay"

I don't understand this point. Dublin Bus has said that core pay will not be affected. Core pay, by nature of the job involved would include shift allowance, so how exactly is this going to apply?

The report is wrong, the issue around summer schedules is not pay related as such, but summer schedules could affect pay for some drivers particularly split shift drivers, but that is not the main issue.
The main issue with that is lack of clarity, what will happen to drivers displaced by reduced services, what will they work, where, who will be affected, will they revert to being spare? What shifts can they be asked to work? When will they know what shifts they are expected to work, the day before? Will they hold their shift pattern if they were due to be early will they be early or could they asked to work late etc.

After a year of talking no one can tell you any of the answers to the above, yet the company could produce a summer schedule for some routes a few weeks ago.

That is just one of the issues there are plenty more.

lods

There has to be another strike, neither side can back down. This weekend on the anniversary of the lockout? Just to show how irrelevant unions are;-)

Max001

cdebru wrote: »

The report is wrong, the issue around summer schedules is not pay related as such, but summer schedules could affect pay for some drivers particularly split shift drivers, but that is not the main issue.
The main issue with that is lack of clarity, what will happen to drivers displaced by reduced services, what will they work, where, who will be affected, will they revert to being spare? What shifts can they be asked to work? When will they know what shifts they are expected to work, the day before? Will they hold their shift pattern if they were due to be early will they be early or could they asked to work late etc.

After a year of talking no one can tell you any of the answers to the above, yet the company could produce a summer schedule for some routes a few weeks ago.

That is just one of the issues there are plenty more.

If after a year of talking, your SIPTU & Co representatives haven't obtained answers to the questions above, what have they been talking about for twelve months?

n97 mini

I'm getting the impression the unions are slightly out of touch with what the workers want.

Why are they continually coming back with proposals which the members keep rejecting?

bmaxi

cdebru wrote: »

The report is wrong, the issue around summer schedules is not pay related as such, but summer schedules could affect pay for some drivers particularly split shift drivers, but that is not the main issue.
The main issue with that is lack of clarity, what will happen to drivers displaced by reduced services, what will they work, where, who will be affected, will they revert to being spare? What shifts can they be asked to work? When will they know what shifts they are expected to work, the day before? Will they hold their shift pattern if they were due to be early will they be early or could they asked to work late etc.

After a year of talking no one can tell you any of the answers to the above, yet the company could produce a summer schedule for some routes a few weeks ago.

That is just one of the issues there are plenty more.

Maybe you could spell out what the issues are, I thought the unions came out of the most recent talks saying they had clarity.
On the point of summer schedules, while I can see marked in drivers being pissed at having to revert to spare status with all the uncertainty over working hours etc. as an issue, it's hardly worth striking over and certainly not worth risking your job over. Presumably it is only temporary and will be addressed by natural wastage over time, I can't see how the unions could not have come to terms on that.

Peppa Pig

rte news tweet wrote:

SIPTU says workers in six grades at Dublin Bus have accepted the Labour Court proposals. Drivers rejected the proposals last week.

Does this mean the admin staff have accepted the LC recommendations and it's only the drivers who have a problem?

end of the road

lods wrote: »

There has to be another strike

no, their doesn't

lods wrote: »

neither side can back down.

they both will, when they come to a deal that will be excepted by both sides, which will happen eventually

lods wrote: »

Just to show how irrelevant unions are;-)

to you they may be irrelevant, to me however their very relevant, and i wouldn't work a job without being a member of a union, i'd rather no job then not being a member of a union

n97 mini

end of the road wrote: »

i'd rather no job then not being a member of a union

I'd be the opposite. Worked in a PS organisation, the union pedalled the union's view, not mine, so I didn't join.

cdebru

bmaxi wrote: »

Maybe you could spell out what the issues are, I thought the unions came out of the most recent talks saying they had clarity.
On the point of summer schedules, while I can see marked in drivers being pissed at having to revert to spare status with all the uncertainty over working hours etc. as an issue, it's hardly worth striking over and certainly not worth risking your job over. Presumably it is only temporary and will be addressed by natural wastage over time, I can't see how the unions could not have come to terms on that.

The union leadership said that the members disagreed. There is no clarity, none on the issue of summer schedules, and natural wastage would not address anything, as no one knows how it will work. Why cant they say how it will work, who and how people will be affected? What is not said in these deals are usually what really affects you.

That is one issue, it is not the only one, driver feedback technology being brought in under the guise of a bonus scheme, again what is it, what is it monitoring and who and what can it be used for outside of the fuel saving bonus scheme?

late breaks, these are a problem because of bad scheduling, where the company wants to pretend it is delivering a service it can not deliver, it cuts running time so on paper it looks like X number of departures an hour, these running times are not possible, drivers get late breaks and finishes, what makes the company address this is drivers right to insist on his break time or overtime, this forces the company to correct schedules the 4 was a perfect example there are many others.

There are no excuses for regular late breaks with GPS the company know exactly how long a journey takes at any time of the day, they just don't want to do it correctly.

There are other issues, with other proposals around travelling time particularly with the garages further out like harristown and donnybrook.

There is also a complete lack of trust around gge 19 months aspect of overtime, bank holiday rate cuts people just don't believe they will be ever restored.

I'm sure there are more i don't have the document with me so those are of the top of my head.

cdebru

Max001 wrote: »

If after a year of talking, your SIPTU & Co representatives haven't obtained answers to the questions above, what have they been talking about for twelve months?

An excellent question and what did they discuss for 15 hours 2 weeks ago ?

cdebru

n97 mini wrote: »

I'm getting the impression the unions are slightly out of touch with what the workers want.

Why are they continually coming back with proposals which the members keep rejecting?

Not all union reps are out of touch but the ones at the top certainly seem to be, and the most of the ones entering the LC 2 weeks ago were.

something odd happens to some people when they achieve office, they forget who they are there to represent, that applies to general politics as well as union leadership.

How the NBRU were feeding the media that they were satisfied with the outcome is beyond me.

Max001

cdebru wrote: »

Not all union reps are out of touch but the ones at the top certainly seem to be, and the most of the ones entering the LC 2 weeks ago were.

something odd happens to some people when they achieve office, they forget who they are there to represent, that applies to general politics as well as union leadership.

How the NBRU were feeding the media that they were satisfied with the outcome is beyond me.

Wouldn't be the first time in my experience, that union branch officials etc have had a different agenda to their members.

rx8

The Company and Unions are meeting on Monday, at the company's request.
A new document is expected to be produced, and hopefully this could see an end to the current dispute.

Stevek101

rx8 wrote: »

The Company and Unions are meeting on Monday, at the company's request.
A new document is expected to be produced, and hopefully this could see an end to the current dispute.

Did anything ever happen? Been quite for a while now, I assume that's a good thing?

CreepingDeath

Stevek101 wrote: »

Did anything ever happen? Been quite for a while now, I assume that's a good thing?

I imagine it means they all agreed to raise the bus fares 20% and give themselves bonuses.

LXFlyer

Talks ongoing on revised proposals to drivers I believe.

cdebru

lxflyer wrote: »

Talks ongoing on revised proposals to drivers I believe.

Unions voting today and tomorrow, on new document. ( mostly a more detailed clarification of the previous documents)

Atilla

cdebru wrote: »

Unions voting today and tomorrow, on new document. ( mostly a more detailed clarification of the previous documents)

Same document with a new cover ?

cdebru

Atilla wrote: »

Same document with a new cover ?

It is kind of like one of the EU treaty referendums, if they don't like the answer, they dress it up a little and ask again and again until they get the answer they want.

Stevek101

Is the new document available for a comparison?

cdebru

Stevek101 wrote: »

Is the new document available for a comparison?

It is to those that are affected by it of course.