Dublin Bus strike from Sunday 04/08 [called off - service resumes 07/08]

StreetLight

Tickityboo wrote: »

Incorrect!!
There is a whole raft of other changes being proposed.
Which will have a detrimental effect on working terms and conditions.

The enquiry was in relation to wages, not other working terms and conditions.

Tickityboo

StreetLight wrote: »

The enquiry was in relation to wages, not other working terms and conditions.

And this is a major problem here people are just concentrating on wage figures being bandied about willie nillie (often incorrectly).
It is not down to me to publicise the changes to terms and conditions on a public forum.
But if they are excepted they would never be reinstated and that is where detrimental effect comes into it.

end of the road

Icepick wrote: »

They just sacrificed long term stability for short term illusion of gain. Good, the service needs to improve and going partially private is the only way because of the unions and brainwashed workers.

would mean trippling the subsidy as private operators/private shareholders are entitled to a proffit and it would be unreasonable to expect them to take on loss making routes, the current way with once in a blue moon strikes is fine

end of the road

Vahevala wrote: »

I hate the fact that these drivers can hold us all to ransom like this.

their not, as strikes only last a couple of days you can well get round dublin if you really want to without the bus, if you can't afford a taxi then try to budget a bit better for those couple of days, or ring round a few taxi firms and get quotes for fairs, their are deals to be had believe it or not

Vahevala wrote: »

It actually makes me sick if I am honest.

why, because they have the bottle not to bend over? sometimes in life people have to say no.

bmaxi

end of the road wrote: »

would mean trippling the subsidy as private operators/private shareholders are entitled to a proffit and it would be unreasonable to expect them to take on loss making routes, the current way with once in a blue moon strikes is fine

Where are the figures to support this speculation? The process for privatisation has been speculated upon but not finalised.

Gatling

end of the road wrote: »

their not, as strikes only last a couple of days you can well get round dublin if you really want to without the bus, if you can't afford a taxi then try to budget a bit better for those couple of days, or ring round a few taxi firms and get quotes for fairs, their are deals to be had believe it or not

why, because they have the bottle not to bend over? sometimes in life people have to say no.

Typical over the top were untouchable attitude

foggy_lad

Tickityboo wrote: »

Incorrect!!
There is a whole raft of other changes being proposed.
Which will have a detrimental effect on working terms and conditions.

Ah yes the perks and benefits are being brought into line with other public servants like uncertified sick days being reduced from 7 to 3 per year.

Tickityboo wrote: »

And this is a major problem here people are just concentrating on wage figures being bandied about willie nillie (often incorrectly).
It is not down to me to publicise the changes to terms and conditions on a public forum.
But if they are excepted they would never be reinstated and that is where detrimental effect comes into it.

But these perks and bonus payments being affected by the changes to the terms and conditions of employment do have a value and are in many cases it seems they can be quite an addition to the drivers average industrial wage.

Peppa Pig

end of the road wrote: »

their not, as strikes only last a couple of days you can well get round dublin if you really want to without the bus, if you can't afford a taxi then try to budget a bit better for those couple of days, or ring round a few taxi firms and get quotes for fairs, their are deals to be had believe it or not

why, because they have the bottle not to bend over? sometimes in life people have to say no.

Any sympathy evaporates with a post like that.

Icepick

cdebru wrote: »

How do you make out the employees are sponging of the tax payer ?

Are you serious?
Do you not know about the yearly subsidies and the additional monies sent in the last years because the company and its spoilt employees still couldn't manage not to go bankrupt?

LXFlyer

I don't think that the annual subsidy can be claimed as "sponging". It's a payment to reimburse the company for the social element of the service that frankly is an essential payment.

Public transport is not supposed to be profitable - it is however expected to be efficient and cost effective.

end of the road

Peppa Pig wrote: »

Any sympathy evaporates with a post like that.

the drivers aren't looking for any thanks, meanwhile as an ordinary customer instead of whinjing about the drivers being on strike i get on with it for those couple of days and find other options to get round, their using a barganing tool that private sector workers would use if they had the option to and if they thought it would work

Stevek101

It's no surprise they closed the drivers group page on Facebook during the strike. The level of contempt towards the customer is shocking and pretty visible here. Levying OAP's and endless fare increases are the solution to all problems at DB it'd seem.

Joshycat

end of the road wrote: »

their not, as strikes only last a couple of days you can well get round dublin if you really want to without the bus, if you can't afford a taxi then try to budget a bit better for those couple of days, or ring round a few taxi firms and get quotes for fairs, their are deals to be had believe it or not

why, because they have the bottle not to bend over? sometimes in life people have to say no.

Some people have to get 2 buses to work and another 2 buses home right across the city,there has already been one strike and now another strike could be on the way and your saying to 'budget a bit better' its hardly as if money grows on trees... :rolleyes:

Icepick

lxflyer wrote: »

I don't think that the annual subsidy can be claimed as "sponging". It's a payment to reimburse the company for the social element of the service that frankly is an essential payment.

Public transport is not supposed to be profitable - it is however expected to be efficient and cost effective.

Exactly, so the drivers should not earn more than drivers in the private sector.

end of the road

Icepick wrote: »

Exactly, so the drivers should not earn more than drivers in the private sector.

why not, its not the job of the public and private sector to be equal, each other will have benefits the other won't have

markpb

end of the road wrote: »

why not, its not the job of the public and private sector to be equal, each other will have benefits the other won't have

Could you provide one, non-ideological reason why a Dublin Bus driver should get paid more than his counterpart in Swords Express or Finnegans? They do the same job, in the same city, with the same unsociable hours.

miller50841

markpb wrote: »

Could you provide one, non-ideological reason why a Dublin Bus driver should get paid more than his counterpart in Swords Express or Finnegans? They do the same job, in the same city, with the same unsociable hours.

They for a fact do not deal with the same Ass wipes that go around high on crap and drink and anything else you can think of.

They don't get spat at.
They don't get abused.
They don't get punched or kicked.
They don't have knives or syringes pulled on them.
They don't get threatened.
They don't have to deal with aggressive passengers.
They wouldn't usually have to deal with the crazies.
There are many more things but I could fill the whole interweb....

I do not work as one but have 2 friends in the job and my father worked in DB years ago.

No body should have to deal with any of that sort of thing in their job.

Dublin bus carry it all and I mean anything can happen.

The scum would tend to stay clear of the private operators because they would have to pay in most cases their free travel isn't accepted.

STOP Having a go at the drivers have a go at management for running the place into the ground and the government for cutting everything while increasing free travel and fuel and tax and so on.
They have cut all subsidies and tax subvention for fuel(private sector/Semi private)

There are well over a million people able to avail of free travel now to me in such a small country this seems excessive.

I f privatisation is what people want it looks like that's what they will be getting and I can assure you higher fares and no more free trips if you forgot your money or card or whatever.

JTMan

Anyone care to speculate as to whether another strike is on the way?

devnull

miller50841 wrote: »

They don't get spat at.
They don't get abused.
They don't get punched or kicked.
They don't have knives or syringes pulled on them.
They don't get threatened.
They don't have to deal with aggressive passengers.
They wouldn't usually have to deal with the crazies.
There are many more things but I could fill the whole interweb....

Yet they have a screen to protect them from all that, and as drivers keep telling us on here they are not allowed to get out of their cab which puts up a barrier between them and these people which means they have some protection at least. They also have CCTV as well. I'm not saying these problems don't happen, but I'm simply saying that there is protection from all of that, that makes it less likely.

The average driver for the other companies that are mentioned is paid less and may have CCTV in some cases, but they don't have a screen to protect them so that puts them more at risk than people who are driving at Dublin Bus. I accept they may not deal with as many of the kinds of passengers or areas that Dublin Bus go through, but the potential for one nutcase is there on any route by any company.

No body should have to deal with any of that sort of thing in their job.

Nobody should, but cleaners are often bullied by people who think they are just poor people who are beneath them, shop workers get the same hassle, You should go down to Thomas Street and see the awful crap the people who work there have to put up with. Last week there, which is right next to a social welfare office, I'm not saying all people on social are like this, but the people who work there have to watch like a hawk. Does this mean they should also be paid your wages? Or should they be paid more since they don't have any defence against this unlike drivers and their screen?

There are well over a million people able to avail of free travel now to me in such a small country this seems excessive.

That is how many people can avail in Dublin if every single one of them took up a free travel pass, used it on a regular basis and lived in Dublin. The actual amount of users using it in Dublin would be rather a lot less, but I would agree that it is still too big and that there needs to be some changing of the scheme to stop fraud especially. But this isn't the sole reason Dublin Bus needs to save money.

The scum would tend to stay clear of the private operators because they would have to pay in most cases their free travel isn't accepted.

Many privates do carry free travel pass holders, there are people going from Greystones to Dublin Airport on Aircoach who get peanuts for the journey (I know two myself), people going on JJ Kavanagh and Citylink for free as well as many other private operators. The reason services launched in the past two years are not accepting free travel is they are not allowed to have their new services join the scheme.

They have cut all subsidies and tax subvention for fuel(private sector/Semi private)

But in the last few years have increased indirect subsidy by the purchase of new vehicles that previously Dublin Bus had to fund itself, but are now being paid for by the taxpayer.

Subvention has been cut but the amount of work Dublin Bus do has also dropped by a similar percentage. Whilst such buses that remain may be working hard, that is offset by the fact the routes that were cut were the very worst performing ones and those that were losing the most money that were no doubt losing more than the average level of subsidy

If privatisation is what people want it looks like that's what they will be getting and I can assure you higher fares and no more free trips if you forgot your money or card or whatever.

That is a different type or privatisation you are talking about to what most people want to see, most people want to see Transport for Ireland to become an authority like Transport for London, set fares, timetables and manage the infrastructure and just get the operators to tender. I don't think many on here from either side of the argument things full deregulation is viable in a country like Ireland.

Gatling

miller50841 wrote: »

They for a fact do not deal with the same Ass wipes that go around high on crap and drink and anything else you can think of.

They don't get spat at.
They don't get abused.
They don't get punched or kicked.
They don't have knives or syringes pulled on them.
They don't get threatened.
They don't have to deal with aggressive passengers.
They wouldn't usually have to deal with the crazies.
There are many more things but I could fill the whole interweb....

I do not work as one but have 2 friends in the job and my father worked in DB years ago.

No body should have to deal with any of that sort of thing in their job.

Dublin bus carry it all and I mean anything can happen.

The scum would tend to stay clear of the private operators because they would have to pay in most cases their free travel isn't accepted.

STOP Having a go at the drivers have a go at management for running the place into the ground and the government for cutting everything while increasing free travel and fuel and tax and so on.
They have cut all subsidies and tax subvention for fuel(private sector/Semi private)

There are well over a million people able to avail of free travel now to me in such a small country this seems excessive.

I f privatisation is what people want it looks like that's what they will be getting and I can assure you higher fares and no more free trips if you forgot your money or card or whatever.

Save us the sob story

The one million Eligible for free travel passes is country wide eligible not actually issued to one million ,
My last job dealth with all of the above supposed abuse on a daily basis and didn't get any where near what bus drivers earn ,
There attitude stinks in all of this were above everybody were untouchable ,
we can't be cut blah blah blah

hmmm

Fungus wrote: »

Anyone care to speculate as to whether another strike is on the way?

Unless the company can pull savings out of a hat, they'll get to choose when to impose the same cuts they tried to implement last time. At that point, the unions will go out on strike again.

The government have cover now to do anything they want now, I'm sure a FG government would love to face down a public sector union which doesn't have public support. Labour don't want an election now, so won't put up a fight.

Interesting times for Dublin bus - the workers think they can strike and turn down deals with impunity as they have a guaranteed job for life, but I'm not so sure.

Devilman40k

hmmm wrote: »

Unless the company can pull savings out of a hat, they'll get to choose when to impose the same cuts they tried to implement last time. At that point, the unions will go out on strike again.

The government have cover now to do anything they want now, I'm sure a FG government would love to face down a public sector union which doesn't have public support. Labour don't want an election now, so won't put up a fight.

Interesting times for Dublin bus - the workers think they can strike and turn down deals with impunity as they have a guaranteed job for life, but I'm not so sure.

This is going to be interesting alright. Yes the staff should try hold onto terms and conditions, but I think they are going to be faced down here, and won't win much sympathy from the travelling public (many of whom have taken cuts to their core pay nevermind overtime etc)

I can see this potential strike being a watershed moment for public transport in the capital.

As for stating that people should budget accordingly for alternative transport, that is an incredibly blasé comment, there aren't many who can budget accordingly in the current climate - particularly if it is a protracted dispute (as it could well be)

BuffyBot

I'd like to remind folks that previous warnings remain in place: keep posts civil, constructive and on-topic.

Cheap shots, name calling and pointless posts designed to goad the other side (whichever side that may be) are going to lead to you having your post sanctioned.

end of the road

hmmm wrote: »

Unless The government have cover now to do anything they want now, I'm sure a FG government would love to face down a public sector union which doesn't have public support. Labour don't want an election now, so won't put up a fight.

they can love to face down the unions all they like but if they cut the pensioners they won't be winning the next election, so their best off leaving management and the unions to sort things out with a little "come on lads talk" from the minister for transport

hmmm wrote: »

Unless the workers think they can strike and turn down deals with impunity as they have a guaranteed job for life

oh dear, i'l think one will find theirs no such thing as a "job for life"

suicide_circus

Company making significant losses - costs need to reduced - its pretty straight forward.

StreetLight

suicide_circus wrote: »

Company making significant losses - costs need to reduced - its pretty straight forward.

As long as they are fair and don't disproportionately target one grade of employee over another.

bmaxi

end of the road wrote: »

oh dear, i'l think one will find theirs no such thing as a "job for life"

Has DB started issuing term contracts?

Dravokivich

Fungus wrote: »

Anyone care to speculate as to whether another strike is on the way?

The strike happened, becuase the conditions of their employment would have been updated if they worked. At the moment the strike is on hold pending an agreement in regards to conditions being set. Unless something is stated that conditions which are not agreed to are changing at "X date" I do not think there'll be strike anytime soon.

JTMan

Dravokivich wrote: »

The strike happened, becuase the conditions of their employment would have been updated if they worked. At the moment the strike is on hold pending an agreement in regards to conditions being set. Unless something is stated that conditions which are not agreed to are changing at "X date" I do not think there'll be strike anytime soon.

Then what is Dublin Bus managements next move?

Hootanany

Cowering from the Unions.?