Your Ireland 23 for Nov. 9th versus Samoa

Kayless

Buer wrote: »

Yes, this tour.

Would love to see the highlights of that but even so, the point is not so much that he can't get the odd high ball, it's that he used to be the master at it and for some reason or another he seems to have lost that aspect of his game of late. Would you not agree that he should be winning most of the high balls?

dingoberry

You could argue the back row all day, and it's possible to have a good debate on POM starting, but one or 2 posts don't even have him in the 23 which seems amazing to me. I think he's going to be a fixture for years and almost certainly Munster captain either this year or next.

He's clearly ahead of Henderson, Ruddock and Mclaughlin for now.

If Ferris can ever get back it will be interesting.

JagerScout

if Ferris gets back it wont be interesting, far better blindside than POM when healthy and in top form.

Podge_irl

dingoberry wrote: »

He's clearly ahead of Henderson, Ruddock and Mclaughlin for now.

I don't think it's that clear at all (well, except for Ruddock). McL is a very different player but he's been an ever-present in Leinster's big games for a reason. I'd favour POM at the moment, but its close enough that a decent run of form for McL or slight loss in form for POM would tip it. McL will hit rucks and clean up scrapy ball all day long.

Henderson is just a beast. He's not really as good as POM or McL yet in many ways, but you just love to see him on the pitch.

Podge_irl

JagerScout wrote: »

if Ferris gets back it wont be interesting, far better blindside than POM when healthy and in top form.

Far better blindside than anyone.

But I'll consider any time he plays for Ireland in the future as a bonus - I don't really expect to see him.

danthefan

Can't see Ferris being fit for the AIs.

.ak

How can he be? He's not due back for Ulster until December, right?

Swan Curry

.ak wrote: »

How can he be? He's not due back for Ulster until December, right?

I have the feeling this is a bit of a Luke Fitzgerald situation and he could be out longer than we think.Judging from some of his tweets,he's only off crutches today and the best guess for his return is "Hopefully another few months".

Woody1997

I don't understand why zebo suddenly has to be in the team, I still don't see him as a definite starter. He's far from the finished article and only got his chance due to injuries

thomond2006

Woody1997 wrote: »

I don't understand why zebo suddenly has to be in the team, I still don't see him as a definite starter. He's far from the finished article and only got his chance due to injuries

Most players only get their chance because of injuries.

thomond2006

thomond2006 wrote: »

Most players only got their chance because of injuries.

fyp.

And Zebo is undroppable right now. He's playing too well and riding the wave of confidence. If that bubble bursts, we might see Trimble, Gilroy or Fitz come in at 11 but Zebo's form is what counts and it's too good compared to the others.

bilston

One thing that I hope we see under Schmidt is a reward for form. If guys aren't playing well and others guys competing for their spot are then those in form will hopefully get the nod, central contract or no central contract. Now I'm up saying you drop players on the back of one or even two bad games but the players need to be aware that they must be keep their standards high in order to stay in the team and the only way of making players believe you are serious about that is to drop them if they are playing badly.

That being the case I'd hope none of the positions in the team are nailed down by anyone in the mind of Schmidt.

That said I do accept Kidney's argument that form isn't always the only factor in team selection, however if you pick on form then I believe standards will improve and complacency will go out the window.

Competition breeds success.

irishbucsfan

bilston wrote: »

One thing that I hope we see under Schmidt is a reward for form. If guys aren't playing well and others guys competing for their spot are then those in form will hopefully get the nod, central contract or no central contract. Now I'm up saying you drop players on the back of one or even two bad games but the players need to be aware that they must be keep their standards high in order to stay in the team and the only way of making players believe you are serious about that is to drop them if they are playing badly.

That being the case I'd hope none of the positions in the team are nailed down by anyone in the mind of Schmidt.

That said I do accept Kidney's argument that form isn't always the only factor in team selection, however if you pick on form then I believe standards will improve and complacency will go out the window.

Competition breeds success.

I think that's a good point.

But also I think that some people completely overstate form when it comes to selection for these things.

In my opinion form is just (confidence x conditioning) and I think often guys complain because Young Player X is in great form but hasn't been picked for a game. I think you'd often see these young guys completely lose that form due to the fact they're suddenly playing at a different level in a different team. How many times have we seen a guy go from playing great to playing poorly in the 6 Nations?

I think Ireland need to get guys involved in training with the squad earlier so that if they do play well enough to demand consideration then they're more comfortable in that environment... But still if Robbie Henshaw is the best 15 in Ireland over the next 4 months I could understand Schmidt going back to Kearney for the Autumn games.

thebaz

don't think he'll pick strongest 15 for Samoa - near eneogh though -

the strongest 15 right now I see as :-

1. Cian Healy
2. Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Luke Marshall
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

for Samoa , game he will probably rest BOD , Sexton and heaslip - with odling, Madigan, henry respectivly

bilston

thebaz wrote: »

don't think he'll pick strongest 15 for Samoa - near eneogh though -

the strongest 15 right now I see as :-

1. Cian Healy
2. Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Luke Marshall
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

for Samoa , game he will probably rest BOD , Sexton and heaslip - with odling, Madigan, henry respectivly

You probably aren't far off, I think the No.2, No.12 and No.11 shirts are probably fairly open though.

siltirocker

bilston wrote: »

You probably aren't far off, I think the No.2, No.12 and No.11 shirts are probably fairly open though.

Sure enough. I thought Cronin, Strauss and Best and to a lesser extend Sherry and Harris Wright, could all pick a month from last year and went 'Yea, I was the best hooker in Ireland that month'.

On the wing I thought Trimble and Zebo were far and away the best wingers with McFadden just behind them.

And at 12 Marshall, D'Arcy, McSharry, Olding all seem to be in with a shout.

What I do find ridiculous is that Paddy Wallace had arguably one of his best seasons ever and is streets ahead of Marshall and Olding at 12 for Ulster, yet isn't even mentioned when it comes to Ireland. Is it age?

Same to an extent with Trimble, played better, far better IMO than any Irish or Ulster winger last year but finds himself for Ireland behind Gilroy, Bowe, Zebo, Fitzgerald, McFadden, etc.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

siltirocker wrote: »

Sure enough. I thought Cronin, Strauss and Best and to a lesser extend Sherry and Harris Wright, could all pick a month from last year and went 'Yea, I was the best hooker in Ireland that month'.

I think Mike Sherry was the most consistent Irish hooker last year, so I wouldn't say to a lesser extent. He's not all the way there yet but his darts are very consistent and that could count for a lot in a team run by Schmidt

Podge_irl

siltirocker wrote: »

What I do find ridiculous is that Paddy Wallace had arguably one of his best seasons ever and is streets ahead of Marshall and Olding at 12 for Ulster, yet isn't even mentioned when it comes to Ireland. Is it age?

I'm a fan of Wallace, but I think Marshall would have edged him out after Christmas for Ulster anyway - unfortunately thanks to injury we'll never know. There is no way I would classify Wallace as "streets ahead" though.

And its partly his age and partly the fact he's never overly excelled for Ireland. I think he got a bit of a rough time and was better than he was given credit for (and not used particularly intelligently) but there is no point replacing a 33 year old with a 32 year old (or whatever their actual ages are!)

.ak

Yeah, Wallace wasn't that good for Ulster after Christmas at all...? His age is showing. Fantastic all round footballer, but he's probably not going to fit in with Anscombe's plans of direct running rugby for this season I think.

Glass Prison 1214

Podge_irl wrote: »

(or whatever their actual ages are!)

Wallace is 33 but will be 34 in August, D'Arcy is 33 and turns 34 in the second half of the season.

thebaz

siltirocker wrote: »

What I do find ridiculous is that Paddy Wallace had arguably one of his best seasons ever and is streets ahead of Marshall and Olding at 12 for Ulster, yet isn't even mentioned when it comes to Ireland. Is it age?

not ridiculous at all, and nothing to do with age , I'd put D'Arcy way ahead of him for International rugby, until he improves as an international centre

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

D'arcy is certainly not streets ahead of Marshall, I'd be of the opinion that Marshall is the better player. And there's not much between Olding and D'arcy either

Glass Prison 1214

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

D'arcy is certainly not streets ahead of Marshall, I'd be of the opinion that Marshall is the better player. And there's not much between Olding and D'arcy either

I think he meant D'Arcy is streets ahead of Wallace, which is true.

Podge_irl

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

D'arcy is certainly not streets ahead of Marshall, I'd be of the opinion that Marshall is the better player. And there's not much between Olding and D'arcy either

I don't think anyone suggested that! The suggestion was Wallace was streets ahead of Marshall.

I agree with you though, if anything I think Marshall was the best 12 in Ireland for most of last season.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

ah my mistake

irishbucsfan

Wallace was brilliant before his injury but he's just old now unfortunately. There is more long term value in playing Marshall considering they're both at a similar level.

Buer

I think D'Arcy is still ahead of Marshall as of last season but time to break away from D'Arcy and implement a new partnership. It's only when he isn't in the side that people seem to notice how bloody good he is. I think, looking into this season, Marshall will probably eclipse D'Arcy in terms of top level performance (which he hasn't done yet) but I'm not sure he'll ever be able to get up to the level that D'Arcy was at in his pomp.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

I think Marshalls breaking threat is something we sorely need in the Irish midfield considering it's not BOD's biggest asset anymore

thebaz

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

D'arcy is certainly not streets ahead of Marshall, I'd be of the opinion that Marshall is the better player. And there's not much between Olding and D'arcy either

Marshall was in my starting 15 - both Jackson and Wallace are fine provincial players , but both need to improve a lot to become reliable International players - hopefully I'm proved wrong ,

Tox56

If a 24 year old D'Arcy had produced the season he did last year he would be comfortably first choice for Ireland. People take for granted how good he is, his performance against Wasps for example was largely brushed over, despite the fact he won the MOTM award, compared to someone like Madigan who also had a good game but is 10 years younger. There's great clamour for Marshall's inclusion, and rightly so, because he is a great prospect with time on his side, but in terms of the actual rugby played I don't think he was as good as D'Arcy last season at all.