Your Ireland 23 for Nov. 9th versus Samoa

sydthebeat

I fully expect a full strength samoa will be a huge challenge to a full strength ireland..... Probably a one score game.

People are seriously under estimating where samoa are at and over estimating where irish rugby currently is.

jamiedav2011

Lot of people discounting Darcy, I wouldn't be so sure about that, had a great season and the break this Summer will do him good.

vkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

and over estimating where irish rugby currently is.

Have to agree with you. We have some very good players, but we are a long way off from being world beaters. Will be interesting to see what influence Joe S has over the next while.

Buer

GiftofGab wrote: »

Crazy to think that Samoa are ranked 7th in the world - just below Wales and ahead of us - with a population of under 200,000 people.

How many of those 200,000 people are registered players? Phenomenal achievement. I remember England playing Samoa a few years ago in Twickenham and there was 80,000 people at the stadium. That's over 40% the population of all of Samoa. Samoa only lost by a few points.

That needs to be qualified somewhat by the fact that they rely hugely on players that have some Samoan heritage in them. For their last game, I think it was 9 of their starting 15 were born in NZ. I don't know the level of their heritage i.e. was it just a single grandparent or were both parents entirely Samoan?

Regardless, if a country has a huge diaspora living in a country where they're raised to play rugby from day one, they're going to have a pretty significant playing population to choose from. Imagine if a massive percentage of Irish emigrants played in a nearby, rugby mad environment.

.ak

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Lot of people discounting Darcy, I wouldn't be so sure about that, had a great season and the break this Summer will do him good.

Don't think people are discounting him, but it's time to move to the future. We have plenty of decent 12s that should be afforded game time. Unlike 13s....

former legend

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Lot of people discounting Darcy

And Paddy Wallace; hard to see Stuart Olding or Luke Marshall getting into the Ireland team if they can't get into the Ulster team.

Luke Fitzgerald could come into the reckoning again depending on injury and Eoin Reddan hasn't been mentioned much on this thread either...

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

And Paddy Wallace; hard to see Stuart Olding or Luke Marshall getting into the Ireland team if they can't get into the Ulster team.

Luke Fitzgerald could come into the reckoning again depending on injury and Eoin Reddan hasn't been mentioned much on this thread either...

former legend? Subtle

siltirocker

Speculating who is going to be in form 3 months into the season is too off for me.

So I'll just put down my 23 based on all players fit and available, regardless of any other factors. A team picked with a goal of winning a test against a higher ranked team.

Healy
Best
Ross
Ryan
O'Connell
Ferris
O'Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Zebo
D'Arcy
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney

Court
Strauss
Hagan
McCarthy
O'Mahoney
Marmion
Madigan
Earls

If there where injuries in any of those positions I would fill them with the following:

Court
Strauss
Hagan
McCarthy
Henderson
O'Mahoney
Henry
O'Mahoney
Marmion
Madigan
McFadden
Marshall
Cave
Trimble
Henshaw

Kilcoyne
Cronin
Fitzpatrick
Toner
O'Donnell
Reddan
Jackson
Fitzgerald

wittycynic

Poor old Craig Gilroy seems to have gone from hero to zero in the space of one year. Him or Trimble would be my 23, probably Trimble though.

desertcircus

I'd expect to see a preponderance of Leinster players in the first game or two. After the slow start at Leinster, and the relentless focus on skills that Schmidt emphasised, it's likely that he's going to gravitate towards the players he knows can do what he wants. That means Locky competing with POM for the six jersey, Toner in with a shout for the 19 shirt, Reddan and Boss being considered for a start, and Fitzgerald in contention. Hagan and Conway could also be beneficiaries

Podge_irl

Conway isn't going to be within an arse's roar of the squad for the AIs (maybe the training squad, but I highly doubt it). Hagan could certainly benefit though I think that has less to do with him being from Leinster and more to his impressive end of season form.

jamiedav2011

desertcircus wrote: »

I'd expect to see a preponderance of Leinster players in the first game or two. After the slow start at Leinster, and the relentless focus on skills that Schmidt emphasised, it's likely that he's going to gravitate towards the players he knows can do what he wants. That means Locky competing with POM for the six jersey, Toner in with a shout for the 19 shirt, Reddan and Boss being considered for a start, and Fitzgerald in contention. Hagan and Conway could also be beneficiaries

I realistically don't see this happening, and wouldn't like to see this happening.

All being fit, Locky and Toner shouldn't be in the Irish 22, while Hagan might benefit, Fitz likely won't be back, and Conway is light years away from an international wing.

I'd hate for Schmidt to do a reverse Kidney and stick bring in Leinster players in any relatively tight calls when he's got the likes of Zebo, Murray and POM who should all be starting based on both potential and form.

blackdog1

Cian healy
Richard strauss
Mike ross
Paul o connell
Donnacha ryan
Sean o brian
Tommy o donnell
Jamie heaslip
Connor Murray
Johnny sexton
Fergus mcfadden
Luke marshall
Brian o driscoll
Tommy bowe
Simon zebo

Bench

Best
Court
Hagan
Mccarthy
Pom
Reddan
Madigan
Kearney

shuffol

Henderson should start IMO, he's already an excellent player and has the highest ceiling ability wise of any Irish player.

blackdog1

Just a few points on selection. Kearneys not great apart from kicking and catching zebo to fullback for me. O donnel to me is playing miles better than o mahoney in terms of work rate and tackles, I really like the look of him and he should get a go at 7 this November. Mcfadden on the other wing due to his great kick chase game work rate. Not a bad finisher either.
Court on bench ahead of kilcoyne for scrummaging . Hagans needs a strong loose head. This might change depending on who adapts to new scrum rules better.

blackdog1

shuffol wrote: »

Henderson should start IMO, he's already an excellent player and has the highest ceiling ability wise of any Irish player.

I like Hendersons physicality but still a bit headless for me .he needs to cement his ulster place and get the game time first

desertcircus

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

I realistically don't see this happening, and wouldn't like to see this happening.

All being fit, Locky and Toner shouldn't be in the Irish 22, while Hagan might benefit, Fitz likely won't be back, and Conway is light years away from an international wing.

I'd hate for Schmidt to do a reverse Kidney and stick bring in Leinster players in any relatively tight calls when he's got the likes of Zebo, Murray and POM who should all be starting based on both potential and form.

As a starting point, though, it's a definite possibility. Schmidt's gameplan can take a little time to implement, and it may be that the smartest decision in the short term is to lean towards players he knows can play the way he wants.

Also: while Conway is probably a long way away, and Fitz has his own problems, Locky has kept the number six jersey for himself in what's possibly the most competitive backrow in Europe. He might be behind POM, but it's not certain and if he is, it's not by much. It really wouldn't be a surprise to see him at blindside.

irishbucsfan

I think you'd have to go with a pretty structured game against Samoa. The last thing you want to do is open the game up. It'd suit them down to the ground. They're not the sort of team whi will be able to score if they're starting from inside their own 10 meter line.

I'd expect:

Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, POC, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Strauss, Kilcoyne, Fitzpatrick/Hagan, McCarthy, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, Earls

Tomtom364

I think back row is the most contentious area for november.

Personally Id go for

6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

20. TOD (offers more options from the bench then Henry)

Give TOD some good time in the 1st team as he has come on leaps and bound this season.
I think with the players availible Henry is a waste of a bench spot. He should either start or not feature IMO

Larbre34

Its all a bit academic at the moment, however nothing less that a full strength XV is required for Samoa, especially as there will be rustiness. Samoa are playing at probably their highest ever capability

The first 6 weeks of the club season could throw up a few bolters, 18 months ago guys like Gilroy and Olding barely registered on the radar and I dont think JS will be afraid to pick on form and drop like a hot snot just as quick. Ireland squads are about to get a whole new kind of competitive

Injuries notwithstanding, if we had a game tomorrow I'd go for

Zebo, Gilroy, O'Driscoll, Madigan, Bowe, Sexton (c), Murray

Healy, Strauss, Ross, O'Connell, Ryan, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Heaslip

Bench: Kilcoyne, Best, Hagan, McCarthy, O'Donnell, Reddan, McFadden, Kearney

JagerScout

Madigan at 12?

People really wishing to see something that just isn't there. He was very average at 12 for Leinster.

Also laughable at how some people just find any excuse not to pick Chris Henry.

sydthebeat

JagerScout wrote: »

Madigan at 12?

1. People really wishing to see something that just isn't there. He was very average at 12 for Leinster.

2. Also laughable at how some people just find any excuse not to pick Chris Henry.

1. agreed, hes not a 12, although he could "do a job" there if injuries demanded.

2. because theres better players in that position? POM and Fez to name two. SOB also, though id retain him at 7 because i think its his best position.

Foxtrol

As I said previously when this game was discussed how many of Samoa's first team do we think will actually make the trip given the number of French based Islander players who pick up 'injuries' just before international windows? Even at full strength an Irish team playing any brand of rugby above Kidney-ball would have way too much for them even minus a few key players but I can understand why Schmidt may pick a strong side to get the front line players up to speed.

For those who are saying otherwise POM is well worth his place now, coming from someone who'd have McLaughlin and Henry ahead of him this time last year. Him playing however is likely to keep Heaslip and SOB stuck in more rucks, tidying up messy ball than they would with Leinster which may not be ideal tactically.

.ak

sydthebeat wrote: »

1. agreed, hes not a 12, although he could "do a job" there if injuries demanded.

2. because theres better players in that position? POM and Fez to name two. SOB also, though id retain him at 7 because i think its his best position.

POM and Fez are not 7s?

I'd love to see a backrow of 6. SOB, 7. Henry even just for one game. Pure Schmidt.

Swiwi.

GiftofGab wrote: »

Crazy to think that Samoa are ranked 7th in the world - just below Wales and ahead of us - with a population of under 200,000 people.

How many of those 200,000 people are registered players? Phenomenal achievement. I remember England playing Samoa a few years ago in Twickenham and there was 80,000 people at the stadium. That's over 40% the population of all of Samoa. Samoa only lost by a few points.

There's another ~130,000 Kiwis with Samoan heritage living in enzed, so that increases the pool a bit. Schmidt would be foolish to send anything other than a full-strength side out against them. An Irish victory would provide useful ranking points, and help get combinations up to speed before the Anzacs arrive.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

Madigan at 12?

People really wishing to see something that just isn't there. He was very average at 12 for Leinster.

Also laughable at how some people just find any excuse not to pick Chris Henry.

It's laughable how ridiculous some peoples laughable ridiculous opinions are

haha!

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

.ak wrote: »

POM and Fez are not 7s?

I'd love to see a backrow of 6. SOB, 7. Henry even just for one game. Pure Schmidt.

Ya, think Schmidt will have the good sense to rotate Henry and POM dependent on opposition though

Liveforrugby

What kind of tactics and gameplay do people anticipate from samoa... oh wait

Prepare yourselves, injuries are coming

Woody1997

Luke Fitzgerald anyone???

Hagz

Woody1997 wrote: »

Luke Fitzgerald anyone???

I'd love to see it, but I'd imagine this place would erupt if Zebo was omitted. Understandably there'd be a few 'Schmidt loyalty/bias' comments. Personally I think when he's fit he's still our best wing option outside of Bowe. But then again Fitz is my fav player.