Your Ireland 23 for Nov. 9th versus Samoa

JagerScout

Assuming no injuries, apart from Ferris who likely wont be back in time.

1. Cian Healy
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Sean O'Brien
7. Chris Henry
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Luke Marshall
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney
16. Rory Best
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Iain Henderson
20. Peter O'Mahony
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Ian Madigan
23. Keith Earls

KevinK

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Peter O'Mahony
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Stuart Olding
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney
16. Richard Strauss
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Chris Henry
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Ian Madigan
23. Keith Earls

Tox56

It's fairly predictable 15 even at this stage barring injuries of course. The only places really up for grabs would be maybe 2, 6/7, 12 and 11, and all those positions have clear favourites in Best, POM, Marshall and Zebo. I will be most interested in the 2nd flanker to partner SOB, the back-up 10 and the 23.

Neil3030

1. Cian Healy
2. Rory Best
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Iain Henderson
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Luke Marshall
13. Darren Cave
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney
16. Richardt Strauss
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Peter O'Mahony
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Ian Madigan
23. Fergus McFadden

Main thinking here is to give Henderson and Cave coming-of-age test experience against some Pacific Island units, while keeping BOD fresh for the Aussies and ABs. Also keen to ensure there's real impact from the bench.

bilston

Too much effort to pick a full side at this time of night but I'd be tempted to give the likes of Madigan and Olding (at 13) starts in the Samoa game and hold Sexton and BOD back for Samoa, likewise up front it may be a chance for Kilcoyne and either Fitzpatrick or Hagan. I wouldn't move away too much from the first team but maybe go with 10 first teamers and 5 squad players. It would be risky because Samoa are a good side, indeed they are ranked above us, but I still think we should beat them with a handful of changes.

Unfortunately injuries will play their part.

subfreq

1. Cian Healy
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Tommy Bowe
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Craig Gilroy
15. Rob Kearney

16. Rory Best
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Iain Henderson
20. Peter O'Mahony
21. Paul Marshall
22. Ian Madigan
23. Keith Earls

RogerThis

Will sexton be released for all internationals?

tolosenc

1. Cian Healy
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Luke Marshall
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

16. Rory Best
17. Dave Kilcoyne
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Chris Henry
21. Kieran Marmion
22. Ian Madigan
23. Craig Gilroy

phog

I really hope BOD has no part in this game, he's gone after the 6Ns and we need to find a replacement, this is one of the games where Joe can look at his replacement.

There might be some argument in having O'Driscoll play against the ABs in the hope we beat them and giving O'Driscoll his moment in the sun should we do it, however, I love to see his possible replacement get the three AIs and use Brian for the 6Ns.

irishbucsfan

It'll be the full team imo, get the lads playing schmidtball before the big games.

If it was Kidney there'd be an absolute conniption if Ross started!

Teferi

RogerThis wrote: »

Will sexton be released for all internationals?

Yup, club teams can't refuse to release players during the international window. Pretty sure he has negotiated some time to be released outside the international window too for the various meetups the Irish squad have outside the window.

JagerScout

Teferi wrote: »

Yup, club teams can't refuse to release players during the international window. Pretty sure he has negotiated some time to be released outside the international window too for the various meetups the Irish squad have outside the window.

yeah sacrificed some money to do it aswell

JagerScout

phog wrote: »

I really hope BOD has no part in this game, he's gone after the 6Ns and we need to find a replacement, this is one of the games where Joe can look at his replacement.

Disagree, we aren't going to find a replacement in those 3 games.
Joe will want to start strong, which means BOD will start.

Deal with replacing BOD when the times comes.

TheKeenMachine

With all due respect to Samoa, and I know they've obviously hugely improved of late, I think the quality of player at our disposal, coupled with Joe's approach to the game should mean that we can win without playing a full strength team. With that in mind, along with the games vs Australia and NZ, where we'll need our big guns to be fresh, I'd go with a 23 of:
1. Healy
2. Strauss
3. Hagan
4. Henderson
5. Ryan
6. McLaughlin
7. SOB
8. Heaslip (c)

9. Murray
10. Mads
11. Zebo
12. D'Arcy
13. Cave
14. Trimble
15. Kearney

16. Best
17. Killer
18. Fitzpatrick
19. McCarthy
20. POM
21. Marmion
22. Jackson
23. Gilroy

That 23 should be good enough to beat Samoa in my opinion. It should give likes of Henderson (I know he's not played much in the row at pro level, but I'm convinced that's where his future lies), Locky and Cave the chance to perform in a fairly full strength side.
D'Arcy is in ahead of Marshall and Olding for that reason, i.e so Cave can have a run out in an established international 3/4 line. Also Darce should provide a perfect gel in between Darren and Madigan, where I don't think we'd learn as much with the less experienced Ulster duo.
Hagan and McLaughlin (a Schmidt favourite remember, who can bring a Lydiate aspect to the game) would both have real chances to lay down a marker to start in bigger games, and I'd expect both to perform very well.

Obviously we'd then have a (comparitively) fresh Best, Ross, POC, Sexton, BOD and Bowe (essentially the spine of the team) coming into two big matches, giving us a better shot at taking a big scalp.
Just my 2c.

JagerScout

TheKeenMachine wrote: »

That 23 should be good enough to beat Samoa in my opinion.

you obviously haven't seen a lot of Samoa lately.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

JagerScout wrote: »

you obviously haven't seen a lot of Samoa lately.

We still have a team more than capable of beating samoa at home

They've improved but they still have massive frailties in their set piece and defense

I'd expect a Schmidt coached Ireland to beat them by 10+

matthew8

Samoa are ranked a spot ahead of us and beat Wales last year. To put out a weakened side is absurd. We wouldn't be thinking of putting out a weakened team against Scotland/Argentina, both of whom are ranked below Samoa. Samoa comfortably took care of Scotland and absolutely hammered Italy this Summer. They went off the boil massively against SA but that's only one game out of 3. This without their best player, Fotuali'i.

TheKeenMachine

JagerScout wrote: »

you obviously haven't seen a lot of Samoa lately.

Well I did watch every game in that Quad Nations Tournament so I have seen a fair bit of them.
And as I've explained above, I know they have seriously improved of late but to be honest we have the players to be in the top 4 teams in the world and I think we should be regularly beating teams like Samoa (and Italy and Scotland) with relative ease.
I'm interested to know where you think that side lacks the ability to beat Samoa? There's plenty of international of experience there.
Don't be fooled by our ranking (largely down to the previous coaching team): we shouldn't need the likes of BOD and POC to beat lower level countries, particularly with bigger matches approaching.

ScissorPaperRock

I think we'd really need to be playing something close to our strongest team for this match. With a new coach and new systems it would be important to have a trial run before subsequently facing the Wallabies and All Blacks.

JagerScout

we are a lower level country until we start to beat them regularly,it will be schmidt's first game in charge and nothing can be taken for granted. Putting out a team like you suggest would only result in an "upset" well not that it is an upset because Samoa are higher ranked than us. That team would be a very arrogant selection and thankfully is not a realistic option.

TheKeenMachine

JagerScout wrote: »

we are a lower level country until we start to beat them regularly,it will be schmidt's first game in charge and nothing can be taken for granted. Putting out a team like you suggest would only result in an "upset" well not that it is an upset because Samoa are higher ranked than us. That team would be a very arrogant selection.

So based on your logic, you would expect Samoa to beat us even at full strength?
I don't think it would be an arrogant selection at all, all of those guys (bar maybe Hagan) are definitely international standard.
I can understand wanting to get a first team out to adapt to a Schmidt game plan, but the guys left out are all hugely experienced and talented and would have little trouble adapting to Joe's style of play.
I reckon a lot of posters on this board seriously underestimate the ability of our players.

JagerScout

I'd expect Samoa to give us a good game at full strength, would expect us to win but not by a lot based on their recent form.

Putting out a team such as that would be asking for a loss to start the schmidt era.

Hagz

1. Cian Healy
2. Richardt Strauss
3. Mike Ross
4. Donnacha Ryan
5. Paul O'Connell
6. Stephen Ferris (fingers crossed)
7. Sean O'Brien
8. Jamie Heaslip
9. Conor Murray
10. Jonathan Sexton
11. Simon Zebo
12. Luke Marshall
13. Brian O'Driscoll
14. Tommy Bowe
15. Rob Kearney

16. Rory Best
17. David Kilcoyne
18. Jamie Hagan
19. Mike McCarthy
20. Peter O'Mahony
21. Any one of the 3 depending on how things play out
22. Ian Madigan
23. Fergus McFadden

ScissorPaperRock

Hagz wrote: »

6. Stephen Ferris (fingers crossed)

Apparently Ferris is expected to miss the first four months of the season at least, so that's, unfortunately, pretty unlikely.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I reckon the team we put out for Samoa will be a little off the full team. We will probably see a full front row for 50 minutes, Healy, Strauss/Best, Ross changing with 30 minutes to go. POC and one of McCarthy Ryan in the second row. SOB and Heaslip together with one POM Henry McLaughlin and TOD in the backrow.

Full half back pairing Murray Sexton. Marshall/Olding with BOD in the centres. Kearney at 15 and two from Fitz Bowe Zebo Gilroy Trimble on the wings.

McFadden wearing 23.

Hagz

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Apparently Ferris is expected to miss the first four months of the season at least, so that's, unfortunately, pretty unlikely.

Oh really:(? I though I read on his twitter that he's starting pre-season and he's off the crutches...

EDIT: He said "hopefully you'll see me play for Ulster in a few months. He seems very optimistic. But then again he usually is.

molloyjh

We all saw with Leinster that it took some time for the lads to get up to speed with what Schmidt wanted from them. He's going to have even less time with Ireland than he did with Leinster so this issue will be somewhat amplified. Obviously the Leinster lads will be in a far better position having been coached by him the last few years. As a result we'll probably see as close to a full strength team for all 3 games as possible.

The big call will need to be made at hooker I think. Best has suffered a dip in form but neither himself nor Strauss have looked that hot come line-out time. Strauss is familiar with Schmidt and how he plays the game so he may just about have the edge unless Best can rediscover his form at the start of the season.

Another tough call is the replacement scrum-half. Will Schmidt look to someone like Marmion? I doubt it tbh. Talent for the future, but is he ready for international rugby right now? It'll be interesting to see if Marshall gets a shot too, or does Schmidt stick with one of the Leinster lads in Reddan or Boss? I don't have a sub SH below because honestly I have no idea!

1. Healy
2. Strauss/Best
3. Ross
4. Ryan
5. POC
6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

9. Murray
10. Sexton
11. Zebo
12. Marshall/Olding
13. BOD
14. Bowe
15. Kearney

16. Best/Strauss
17. Kilcoyne
18. Hagan
19. McCarthy
20. Henry
21.
22. Madigan
23. McFadden

ScissorPaperRock

Hagz wrote: »

Oh really:(? I though I read on his twitter that he's starting pre-season and he's off the crutches...

EDIT: He said "hopefully you'll see me play for Ulster in a few months. He seems very optimistic. But then again he usually is.

Hopefully you and he are right! I was going by what I read in an indo article (http://www.independent.ie/sport/stephen-ferris-signs-sixmonth-ulster-deal-ending-talk-of-japan-move-29375303.html), so it should be taken with a grain of salt!

GiftofGab

JagerScout wrote: »

you obviously haven't seen a lot of Samoa lately.

Crazy to think that Samoa are ranked 7th in the world - just below Wales and ahead of us - with a population of under 200,000 people.

How many of those 200,000 people are registered players? Phenomenal achievement. I remember England playing Samoa a few years ago in Twickenham and there was 80,000 people at the stadium. That's over 40% the population of all of Samoa. Samoa only lost by a few points.

[Jackass]

I'd love to see us go with a fringe first 15.

1. Kilcoyne
2. Strauss
3. Hagan
4. Ryan
5. Toner
6. Ruddock
7. Henry
8. O'Mahony

9. P Marshall
10. Madigan
11. Fitzgerald
12. L Marshall
13. Cave
14. Gilroy
15. Henshaw

16. Cronin, 17. McGrath, 18. Fitzpatrick, 19. Henderson, 20. McLoughlin, 21. Marmion, 22. Keatley, 23. D. Kearney

I know Samoa are good, but it's not like that's a bad team, just one of many untested players at this level, most of whom I'm confident would step up.

danthefan

Jackass, that team would lose. Possibly heavily.

sydthebeat

I fully expect a full strength samoa will be a huge challenge to a full strength ireland..... Probably a one score game.

People are seriously under estimating where samoa are at and over estimating where irish rugby currently is.

jamiedav2011

Lot of people discounting Darcy, I wouldn't be so sure about that, had a great season and the break this Summer will do him good.

vkid

sydthebeat wrote: »

and over estimating where irish rugby currently is.

Have to agree with you. We have some very good players, but we are a long way off from being world beaters. Will be interesting to see what influence Joe S has over the next while.

Buer

GiftofGab wrote: »

Crazy to think that Samoa are ranked 7th in the world - just below Wales and ahead of us - with a population of under 200,000 people.

How many of those 200,000 people are registered players? Phenomenal achievement. I remember England playing Samoa a few years ago in Twickenham and there was 80,000 people at the stadium. That's over 40% the population of all of Samoa. Samoa only lost by a few points.

That needs to be qualified somewhat by the fact that they rely hugely on players that have some Samoan heritage in them. For their last game, I think it was 9 of their starting 15 were born in NZ. I don't know the level of their heritage i.e. was it just a single grandparent or were both parents entirely Samoan?

Regardless, if a country has a huge diaspora living in a country where they're raised to play rugby from day one, they're going to have a pretty significant playing population to choose from. Imagine if a massive percentage of Irish emigrants played in a nearby, rugby mad environment.

.ak

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Lot of people discounting Darcy, I wouldn't be so sure about that, had a great season and the break this Summer will do him good.

Don't think people are discounting him, but it's time to move to the future. We have plenty of decent 12s that should be afforded game time. Unlike 13s....

former legend

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

Lot of people discounting Darcy

And Paddy Wallace; hard to see Stuart Olding or Luke Marshall getting into the Ireland team if they can't get into the Ulster team.

Luke Fitzgerald could come into the reckoning again depending on injury and Eoin Reddan hasn't been mentioned much on this thread either...

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

former legend wrote: »

And Paddy Wallace; hard to see Stuart Olding or Luke Marshall getting into the Ireland team if they can't get into the Ulster team.

Luke Fitzgerald could come into the reckoning again depending on injury and Eoin Reddan hasn't been mentioned much on this thread either...

former legend? Subtle

siltirocker

Speculating who is going to be in form 3 months into the season is too off for me.

So I'll just put down my 23 based on all players fit and available, regardless of any other factors. A team picked with a goal of winning a test against a higher ranked team.

Healy
Best
Ross
Ryan
O'Connell
Ferris
O'Brien
Heaslip
Murray
Sexton
Zebo
D'Arcy
O'Driscoll
Bowe
Kearney

Court
Strauss
Hagan
McCarthy
O'Mahoney
Marmion
Madigan
Earls

If there where injuries in any of those positions I would fill them with the following:

Court
Strauss
Hagan
McCarthy
Henderson
O'Mahoney
Henry
O'Mahoney
Marmion
Madigan
McFadden
Marshall
Cave
Trimble
Henshaw

Kilcoyne
Cronin
Fitzpatrick
Toner
O'Donnell
Reddan
Jackson
Fitzgerald

wittycynic

Poor old Craig Gilroy seems to have gone from hero to zero in the space of one year. Him or Trimble would be my 23, probably Trimble though.

desertcircus

I'd expect to see a preponderance of Leinster players in the first game or two. After the slow start at Leinster, and the relentless focus on skills that Schmidt emphasised, it's likely that he's going to gravitate towards the players he knows can do what he wants. That means Locky competing with POM for the six jersey, Toner in with a shout for the 19 shirt, Reddan and Boss being considered for a start, and Fitzgerald in contention. Hagan and Conway could also be beneficiaries

Podge_irl

Conway isn't going to be within an arse's roar of the squad for the AIs (maybe the training squad, but I highly doubt it). Hagan could certainly benefit though I think that has less to do with him being from Leinster and more to his impressive end of season form.

jamiedav2011

desertcircus wrote: »

I'd expect to see a preponderance of Leinster players in the first game or two. After the slow start at Leinster, and the relentless focus on skills that Schmidt emphasised, it's likely that he's going to gravitate towards the players he knows can do what he wants. That means Locky competing with POM for the six jersey, Toner in with a shout for the 19 shirt, Reddan and Boss being considered for a start, and Fitzgerald in contention. Hagan and Conway could also be beneficiaries

I realistically don't see this happening, and wouldn't like to see this happening.

All being fit, Locky and Toner shouldn't be in the Irish 22, while Hagan might benefit, Fitz likely won't be back, and Conway is light years away from an international wing.

I'd hate for Schmidt to do a reverse Kidney and stick bring in Leinster players in any relatively tight calls when he's got the likes of Zebo, Murray and POM who should all be starting based on both potential and form.

blackdog1

Cian healy
Richard strauss
Mike ross
Paul o connell
Donnacha ryan
Sean o brian
Tommy o donnell
Jamie heaslip
Connor Murray
Johnny sexton
Fergus mcfadden
Luke marshall
Brian o driscoll
Tommy bowe
Simon zebo

Bench

Best
Court
Hagan
Mccarthy
Pom
Reddan
Madigan
Kearney

shuffol

Henderson should start IMO, he's already an excellent player and has the highest ceiling ability wise of any Irish player.

blackdog1

Just a few points on selection. Kearneys not great apart from kicking and catching zebo to fullback for me. O donnel to me is playing miles better than o mahoney in terms of work rate and tackles, I really like the look of him and he should get a go at 7 this November. Mcfadden on the other wing due to his great kick chase game work rate. Not a bad finisher either.
Court on bench ahead of kilcoyne for scrummaging . Hagans needs a strong loose head. This might change depending on who adapts to new scrum rules better.

blackdog1

shuffol wrote: »

Henderson should start IMO, he's already an excellent player and has the highest ceiling ability wise of any Irish player.

I like Hendersons physicality but still a bit headless for me .he needs to cement his ulster place and get the game time first

desertcircus

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

I realistically don't see this happening, and wouldn't like to see this happening.

All being fit, Locky and Toner shouldn't be in the Irish 22, while Hagan might benefit, Fitz likely won't be back, and Conway is light years away from an international wing.

I'd hate for Schmidt to do a reverse Kidney and stick bring in Leinster players in any relatively tight calls when he's got the likes of Zebo, Murray and POM who should all be starting based on both potential and form.

As a starting point, though, it's a definite possibility. Schmidt's gameplan can take a little time to implement, and it may be that the smartest decision in the short term is to lean towards players he knows can play the way he wants.

Also: while Conway is probably a long way away, and Fitz has his own problems, Locky has kept the number six jersey for himself in what's possibly the most competitive backrow in Europe. He might be behind POM, but it's not certain and if he is, it's not by much. It really wouldn't be a surprise to see him at blindside.

irishbucsfan

I think you'd have to go with a pretty structured game against Samoa. The last thing you want to do is open the game up. It'd suit them down to the ground. They're not the sort of team whi will be able to score if they're starting from inside their own 10 meter line.

I'd expect:

Healy, Best, Ross, Ryan, POC, POM, SOB, Heaslip;
Murray, Sexton, Zebo, D'Arcy, BOD, Bowe, Kearney

Strauss, Kilcoyne, Fitzpatrick/Hagan, McCarthy, Henry, Reddan, Madigan, Earls

Tomtom364

I think back row is the most contentious area for november.

Personally Id go for

6. POM
7. SOB
8. Heaslip

20. TOD (offers more options from the bench then Henry)

Give TOD some good time in the 1st team as he has come on leaps and bound this season.
I think with the players availible Henry is a waste of a bench spot. He should either start or not feature IMO

Larbre34

Its all a bit academic at the moment, however nothing less that a full strength XV is required for Samoa, especially as there will be rustiness. Samoa are playing at probably their highest ever capability

The first 6 weeks of the club season could throw up a few bolters, 18 months ago guys like Gilroy and Olding barely registered on the radar and I dont think JS will be afraid to pick on form and drop like a hot snot just as quick. Ireland squads are about to get a whole new kind of competitive

Injuries notwithstanding, if we had a game tomorrow I'd go for

Zebo, Gilroy, O'Driscoll, Madigan, Bowe, Sexton (c), Murray

Healy, Strauss, Ross, O'Connell, Ryan, O'Mahony, O'Brien, Heaslip

Bench: Kilcoyne, Best, Hagan, McCarthy, O'Donnell, Reddan, McFadden, Kearney