Gay Pride Parade

jeemojney

[/QUOTE]And what's your problem with people being gay and proud? My assumption was made on the basis that, if you do, in fact, think like that, maybe you would reevaluate the way you think. Nice attempt at a sly dig, but you have no basis to assume I lack any education, so you've just done exactly what you told me not to do. It's also irrelevant, because you're the one making these ignorant statements about gay people, not me. I wasn't telling you to educate yourself to be rude, but if you're going around thinking gay people aren't discriminated against you really do need to educate yourself.[/QUOTE] nowhere did I say I have a problem with the parade, nowhere did I say gay people aren't discriminated against. Read what I said. If I did hold the opinions you mention however why should I re-evaluate ? On your say-so 'cos you think I would be wrong, shouldn't you be more tolerant of other people's opinions or does that only happen when they're the same opinions as you ?

Laneyh

tayto lover wrote: »

Not at all. I asked the question because I see the parade as seemingly highlighting difference rather than celebrating equality.
Why do people attack posters for asking a simple question?

I'm sorry if you feel attacked that was not my intention. Many of the posts on here have been oversimplified to a point where I assumed the posters were deliberately dumbing it down.

I don't believe it is particularly about highlighting difference - it's not like people were carrying photos of straight couples and shouting look at us we're different to them.

Perhaps they're not celebrating equality as it has not been achieved in all areas yet.
There are Irish people who couldn't openly take part in the parade today because it could result in them losing their job.

There are a whole host of issues around marriage and parenthood
Probably many other problems too which I as a non-gay person would not be aware of were it not for events such as the parade or more accurately the speeches after the parade

Corkfeen

tayto lover wrote: »

I am not intolerant at all. I just don't get the point of it. AND I agree that everyone is equal and should be treated as such.

I actually wasn't directing the intolerance point at you. :pac: But the truth is in law they are not treated equally even in this country. A situation should not exist where a branch of people are treated differently in law for no distinguishable reason.

Any group that is subjected to discrimination in either the past or present tends to acknowledge this in some way and a parade is a nice way in which one could say that they've not hidden away as a result of intolerance and shows solidarity for those who do suffer.

wexie

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

Well maybe you shouldn't treat people as less equal because they are different? There is a difference between being different and equal rights.

Thread very carefully before you accuse me of treating anyone less equally on grounds of their sexuality.

As far as I'm concerned there are 2 kinds of people, assholes and non-assholes and quite frankly I couldn't possibly care less who you fancy or share your bed with**, what race colour or creed you are. If you leave me and mine in peace I will do the same for you.

(** within the boundaries of the law)

tayto lover

Canard wrote: »

Well that's the thing. People with long or no hair or whatever aren't told they can't marry because of it, nor are they beaten up for having crooked teeth. That's the difference, plain and simple. It's nice that you don't see any difference (I don't mean that in a condescending "thats nice " way, I mean I think it's the way to be), but unfortunately not everyone is like that.


Are there still people being beaten up for being gay?
Haven't heard or read of incidents like that in many years and I live in a big town.

UCDVet

Personally, I think we need more marches for our rights....

I think it's horrible that, even in so called 'free' places like Ireland, we have laws against/prosecute consenting adults who decide to have sex with other consenting adults, in the privacy of their own homes....if we don't like the choice they've made.

People still don't seem to care about what is right, and even then, most people only care when it's trendy. The rest are just....

"Oh but the bible says 'X is wrong' and, besides, it's *creepy* and *unnatural*"

It really makes me sad.

Canard

nowhere did I say I have a problem with the parade, nowhere did I say gay people aren't discriminated against. Read what I said. If I did hold the opinions you mention however why should I re-evaluate ? On your say-so 'cos you think I would be wrong, shouldn't you be more tolerant of other people's opinions or does that only happen when they're the same opinions as you ?

Well then why did you feel the need to state its purpose if it's not a problem? It just didn't seem all that relevant was all. I think you need to read what you said though: "to play the downtrodden discriminated against members of society". The use of the word play implies they aren't actually being discriminated against, which isn't true.

And hold your horses before trying to make me look like an ass, because it's nothing to do with my say-so. I'm tolerant of people's opinions as long as they're informed. I guess this explanation isn't aimed at you because you didn't say there should be a straight pride parade, but just to say, the reason there is no need for one is the same as why there's no white history month: straight people never had to hide the fact that they were straight, and they have always had their rights. That is all. If someone thinks they deserve a straight pride parade, they clearly don't understand the purpose of gay pride parades.

jam_mac_jam

wexie wrote: »

Thread very carefully before you accuse me of treating anyone less equally on grounds of their sexuality.

As far as I'm concerned there are 2 kinds of people, assholes and non-assholes and quite frankly I couldn't possibly care less who you fancy or share your bed with**, what race colour or creed you are. If you leave me and mine in peace I will do the same for you.

(** within the boundaries of the law)

Sorry, I didn't mean you, or to accuse you I mean anyone really. "One" as it were. That one shouldn't treat people differently. I was not accusing you. I am trying to explain the point about difference.
In the same way as you are saying "you"talking about people in general not me I presume.

Laneyh

tayto lover wrote: »

Canard wrote: »

Well that's the thing. People with long or no hair or whatever aren't told they can't marry because of it, nor are they beaten up for having crooked teeth. That's the difference, plain and simple. It's nice that you don't see any difference (I don't mean that in a condescending "thats nice " way, I mean I think it's the way to be), but unfortunately not everyone is like that.


Are there still people being beaten up for being gay?
Haven't heard or read of incidents like that in many years and I live in a big town.

Yes. It may not get reported as such or at all
If you were beaten up for being gay would you want that announced in the local paper so more people could beat you up for being gay ?

Canard

tayto lover wrote: »

Canard wrote: »

Well that's the thing. People with long or no hair or whatever aren't told they can't marry because of it, nor are they beaten up for having crooked teeth. That's the difference, plain and simple. It's nice that you don't see any difference (I don't mean that in a condescending "thats nice " way, I mean I think it's the way to be), but unfortunately not everyone is like that.

Are there still people being beaten up for being gay?
Haven't heard or read of incidents like that in many years and I live in a big town.

Well thankfully it's not as prevalent as it used to be, but there is still the whole equal rights problem to get around. Though the thing is you wouldn't hear about most homophobic attacks because most of what's reported is extreme, but I do know that my friends know a guy who had his teeth knocked out because he looked gay.

gcgirl

Norwesterner wrote: »

The group most discriminated aainst today is heterosexual, middle aged, divorced fathers.
Gays and lesbians are put up on pedal stools and wrapped in cotton wool by the State, media and society in comparison.

Oh my we have a live one

jeemojney

Canard wrote: »

Well then why did you feel the need to state its purpose if it's not a problem? It just didn't seem all that relevant was all. I think you need to read what you said though: "to play the downtrodden discriminated against members of society". The use of the word play implies they aren't actually being discriminated against, which isn't true.

And hold your horses before trying to make me look like an ass, because it's nothing to do with my say-so. I'm tolerant of people's opinions as long as they're informed. I guess this explanation isn't aimed at you because you didn't say there should be a straight pride parade, but just to say, the reason there is no need for one is the same as why there's no white history month: straight people never had to hide the fact that they were straight, and they have always had their rights. That is all. If someone thinks they deserve a straight pride parade, they clearly don't understand the purpose of gay pride parades.

I don't agree that's implied at all. Who decides if someone's opinion is informed, you ? You're right though the last bit has nothing to do with me at all.

Tordelback

tayto lover wrote: »

I asked the question - If you want to be treated as equal then why highlight the very thing that makes you different? I don't see any difference in any of us so why should you?

Everybody is entitled to be treated equally, regardless of sexuality.

Everybody is entitled to celebrate an aspect of their identity, especially if that is as integral a thing as sexuality.

How are these two incompatible in anyone's mind?

For spectators a visible parade raises awareness of the normalcy of the whole spectrum of sexuality, puts happy human faces to abstract concepts, elevates it to a regular part of the social and cultural landscape rather than some hated secret 'peversion' to be used against people. Plus it's fun! More parades! More costumes! Get on with it!

Canard

jeemojney wrote: »

I don't agree that's implied at all. Who decides if someone's opinion is informed, you ? You're right though the last bit has nothing to do with me at all.

Well then why did you say "play" the downtrodden discriminated against members of society? What did you mean by that? I decide if I think someone's opinion is informed, yes. Unless someone can explain to me why they need a straight pride parade or why gay people don't need a parade, then their opinion is not informed enough, because there is no reason for the former and no reason to do away the latter, not yet anyway. Why would you disagree with that? Can you enlighten me?

tayto lover

Tordelback wrote: »

Everybody is entitled to be treated equally, regardless of sexuality.

Everybody is entitled to celebrate an aspect of their identity, especially if that is as integral a thing as sexuality.

How are these two incompatible in anyone's mind?

For spectators a visible parade raises awareness of the normalcy of the whole spectrum of sexuality, puts happy human faces to abstract concepts, elevates it to a regular part of the social and cultural landscape rather than some hated secret 'peversion' to be used against people. Plus it's fun! More parades! More costumes! Get on with it!

Ok so. I just wanted answers.

wexie

Oddly appropriate :

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=85313366&postcount=575

ehmjay

It's not nonsense.

There will never be a time where the expected "norm" for any person is for them to be anything other than straight. Gay people will always be a minority. Self acceptance and coming out can be two of the most difficult and scary phases in life. Whatever about how liberal or conservative a society is or will be there will always be a minority of people going through these phases.

A parade is fun but a gay pride parade also demonstrates a bit of hope and shows a bit of community to those who haven't accepted themselves fully or aren't out yet.

As for the paraders in underwear, the leprechaun outfit didn't look as good on them.

jeemojney

Canard wrote: »

Well then why did you say "play" the downtrodden discriminated against members of society? What did you mean by that? I decide if I think someone's opinion is informed, yes. Unless someone can explain to me why they need a straight pride parade or why gay people don't need a parade, then their opinion is not informed enough, because there is no reason for the former and no reason to do away the latter, not yet anyway. Why would you disagree with that? Can you enlighten me?

It's like saying someone playing the martyr, doesn't meanI don't think they are a martyr. So if someone agrees with you they're informed and if they disagree they're ignorant, makes sense alright. Not sure where you're trying to go with the straight parade thing, not sure at all. Like I said parade away it doesn't bother me or affect me, my opinion on it hasn't changed since my first post on it though, ignorant or not.

elfy4eva

They should let the gay pride lads organise the paddys day parade aswell!

It would make it a hell of a lot better than the pandering, dreary cringefest it
is now.

Canard

jeemojney wrote: »

It's like saying someone playing the martyr, doesn't meanI don't think they are a martyr. So if someone agrees with you they're informed and if they disagree they're ignorant, makes sense alright. Not sure where you're trying to go with the straight parade thing, not sure at all. Like I said parade away it doesn't bother me or affect me, my opinion on it hasn't changed since my first post on it though, ignorant or not.

...Umm, yes it does. If you tell someone they're playing the martyr/victim, you are telling them they're being overdramatic. Intentional or not, your first post was extremely homophobic and you showed that you have no idea about why there is a gay pride parade (before you argue that you did, don't. You compared it to a fcuking left-handed parade and said they were just looking for attention, so stop).

I think you're taking ignorant the wrong way. "Lacking knowledge or awareness in general". I'm ignorant of lots of things, but I wouldn't object to someone explaining them to me. If you think the parades are redundant, then your opinion IS ignorant, because they are absolutely not redundant and that's not an opinion, it's a fact. I'm finished here anyway, because I'm not up for responding to yet another post where you jump on what suits you and ignore any valid points I've made, so goodbye.

miamee

Today I saw more gay couples holding hands, with their arms around each other or kissing than I have in the past year in total. It is still risky for gay couples to do so in public in some places because of people's reactions when faced with it. It made me so happy to see but highlighted the fact that it is not yet accepted or 'the norm' for them to do such simple things that straight people wouldn't think twice about. It's really sad that they can't do it and even worse that some people who claim to treat everyone equally, can't even acknowledge the fact that this is how things are and we have a long way to go before everyone is genuinely treated equally.

Aidric

The George will be sweaty tonight. Standing room only.

SolarFlash

I'm gay myself but I'm against gay pride parades they only create more homophobia and the costumes people have on don't help much either.

sygnalport

The truth is (and this will sting) homosexuality has not been really accepted at all. It has been on a purely superficial level, but in the hearts of people: no. That won't happen for a long time yet. Gays themselves have said this, polls have shown they don't at all feel comfortable expressing their affection for each other, because they - know - people haven't really accepted it. It's not anywhere. I have yet to see holding hands, kissing, or anything in public (apart from when they feel safe in their 'pride' parades).

My point is, you cannot just change the heart overnight, it's in our genes to deeply resent any behavior that does not encourage life to flourish. Including this one. Mental illness being another. These stigmas will never truly go, it's an impossibility.

I think therefore, the only reason why people want to appear 'open minded' about this, is because it simply makes life easier.

jeemojney

Canard wrote: »

...Umm, yes it does. If you tell someone they're playing the martyr/victim, you are telling them they're being overdramatic. Intentional or not, your first post was extremely homophobic and you showed that you have no idea about why there is a gay pride parade (before you argue that you did, don't. You compared it to a fcuking left-handed parade and said they were just looking for attention, so stop).

I think you're taking ignorant the wrong way. "Lacking knowledge or awareness in general". I'm ignorant of lots of things, but I wouldn't object to someone explaining them to me. If you think the parades are redundant, then your opinion IS ignorant, because they are absolutely not redundant and that's not an opinion, it's a fact. I'm finished here anyway, because I'm not up for responding to yet another post where you jump on what suits you and ignore any valid points I've made, so goodbye.

homophobic, dear oh dear

you're constantly trying to put words in my mouth, it's very rude y'know

It's a load of attention-craving gays prancing around telling the world they're proud to be gay

wuppeedoo

Canard

jeemojney wrote: »

homophobic, dear oh dear

you're constantly trying to put words in my mouth, it's very rude y'know

It's a load of attention-craving gays prancing around telling the world they're proud to be gay

wuppeedoo

I didn't do anything, you made yourself look homophobic all on your own, congrats lolz.

jeemojney

Canard wrote: »

I didn't do anything, you made yourself look homophobic all on your own, congrats lolz.

Maybe I have it, the phobia, I think I'll live

sygnalport

Corkfeen wrote: »

I actually wasn't directing the intolerance point at you. :pac: But the truth is in law they are not treated equally even in this country. A situation should not exist where a branch of people are treated differently in law for no distinguishable reason.

Any group that is subjected to discrimination in either the past or present tends to acknowledge this in some way and a parade is a nice way in which one could say that they've not hidden away as a result of intolerance and shows solidarity for those who do suffer.

Ah, but you and many here discriminate against pre-born children based on grounds of looking different, or not yet having the faculties you do. Hypocrite.

Pro Hoc Vice

tayto lover wrote: »

Canard wrote: »

Well that's the thing. People with long or no hair or whatever aren't told they can't marry because of it, nor are they beaten up for having crooked teeth. That's the difference, plain and simple. It's nice that you don't see any difference (I don't mean that in a condescending "thats nice " way, I mean I think it's the way to be), but unfortunately not everyone is like that.


Are there still people being beaten up for being gay?
Haven't heard or read of incidents like that in many years and I live in a big town.

http://www.irishtimes.com/blogs/poplife/2013/04/11/gay-bashing-gay-marriage-and-how-the-media-needs-to-get-a-grip/

http://www.herald.ie/news/witness-appeal-in-gaybash-city-attack-27984154.html

http://www.herald.ie/opinion/brian-finnegan-gay-bashing-on-brendan-reminds-us-streets-arent-safe-27973392.html

And the history http://www.dublinpeople.com/article.php?id=2222

The fact that people think gay bashing does not happen any more when a google search proves it does says a lot.

Laneyh

SolarFlash wrote: »

I'm gay myself but I'm against gay pride parades they only create more homophobia and the costumes people have on don't help much either.

That's a pity. The costumes are only a small minority of the overall parade
I wouldn't be too keen on any bondage type ones but other than that you'd see worse at the beach.

At this stage there is at least one straight man dressed in a mankini at any given festival or charity fancy dress event. Stag and hen dos with fake boobs, willies and assorted blow up dolls hanging out of them so the lines of tasteful costumes are well and truly blurred

I dunno if parades could create more homophobia I guess it could provide justification to latent homophobes. I don't think a non-homophobic person would suddenly become homophobic having seen a parade though.
It's all very sad really- damned if you do and damned if you don't