The Anglo Irish Tapes

RiverOfLove

God, those fcuks have bankrupted an entire fcuking state.

In 2006 I was told, from a young teenager at the time, that we were heading for a recession and that recessions happen in cycles and it was going to happen very soon. Ireland was going to drop and crash into a recession like the one that we had in the 80s but we fell so much more harder due to that bank guarantee that should never have happened and Anglo certainly shouldn't have been included in it and it was all stitched up. We were sold different stories:
- it was an overnight decision,
- it was all Lehmans
- we all partied

RiverOfLove

Drumms big fat happy face in the papers makes me sick.

RiverOfLove

I'm laughing so much at the comments up on the journal.ie about Alan Shatter finding these Anglo tapes nauseating.

K-9

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

Drumm and Bowe have a clear disrespect of pretty much everybody, going by the recordings... that is.

You wanna see 'disrespect'...... check out on You Tube Bank of Ireland's Richie Boucher's 'performance' in front of the Oireachtas Public Accounts Committee on 1st November 2012, and main questioner Independent TD Stephen Donnelly's exasperation, especially his summing up one liner statement on Bouchers performance. Quite unbelieveable.... or it would have been at one time...... not any more.

The testimony of the Government appointed directors like Ray McSharry and others were far more damning tbh, supposed to be acting in the public interest but I couldn't help getting the whiff of I don't give a bollix.

K-9

bumper234 wrote: »

Telephone calls in banks are "recorded" onto hard drive.

They have been there for years,

Probably one or two guards have been listening to these and in the last year have come across these conversations

(speculation on my behalf here) Guard either got pissed off with slow response after he reported these conversations, Was (maybe) told to keep this quiet. Decided to wait a few months then leak them (Irish Edward Snowdon)?

The Independent journalist who was on the VB show said it wasn't anything to do with the slow pace of the investigation. That could well mean it is from somebody involved in the investigation, and maybe aware of how complex the work is. They may have finished with the tapes and interviewed the parties about them, so they aren't really of any use to the team now, so best to leak it and show the public.

He also seemed to suggest that others have come forward recently with more information.

Ash.J.Williams

the more i hear of the tapes the more i blame the government....don't even get me started on all the FF'ers that jumped ship with their pensions...

nelly17

In other news If only our politicians had some bottle back in 2008 as opposed to row in behind the banks because they did'nt know what else to do.

AnOrdinaryJoe

RiverOfLove wrote: »

I'm laughing so much at the comments up on the journal.ie about Alan Shatter finding these Anglo tapes nauseating.

Again I enquire.....

This Alan Shatter guy..... is this the same Alan Shatter, the Minister for Justice (a post which by defination shouldn't even exist by all accounts) who advises that he has mild asthma which doesn't impair him in any way, but unlike other mild asthma sufferers, is unable to blow into a gardai breathalyser piece of kit ?

Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who in connection to a report issued by the gardai officer in question relating to said failed breathalying attempt, has rather unfortunately had the documents and any connected computer records relating to same, mysteriously and unfortunately go missing from the police station where the report was filed by the gardai officer ?

Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who inappropriately used privileged information he should not have been in possession of (had to have come from within police) to try to rubbish another individual ?

And is this the same Minister for Justice (?) who has banged on in the past about how fraud and counterfeit goods are costing the country billions in lost revenues and who, following a break in at his home it was discovered that several watches stolen at the time were.... er.......counterfeit ?

Is it the same Alan Shatter, Minister for Justice (? ? ? ?) re all of the above that we're talking about ?

nelly17

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

Again I enquire.....

This Alan Shatter guy..... is this the same Alan Shatter, the Minister for Justice (a post which by defination shouldn't even exist by all accounts) who advises that he has mild asthma which doesn't impair him in any way, but unlike other mild asthma sufferers, is unable to blow into a gardai breathalyser piece of kit ?

Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who in connection to a report issued by the gardai officer in question relating to said failed breathalying attempt, has rather unfortunately had the documents and any connected computer records relating to same, mysteriously and unfortunately go missing from the police station where the report was filed by the gardai officer ?

Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who inappropriately used privileged information he should not have been in possession of (had to have come from within police) to try to rubbish another individual ?

And is this the same Minister for Justice (?) who has banged on in the past about how fraud and counterfeit goods are costing the country billions in lost revenues and who, following a break in at his home it was discovered that several watches stolen at the time were.... er.......counterfeit ?

Is it the same Alan Shatter, Minister for Justice (? ? ? ?) re all of the above that we're talking about ?

Jeez I knew about all of those instances when they happened but when you put 2+2 together and add them up it does paint some picture allright

bumper234

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

Again I enquire.....

This Alan Shatter guy..... is this the same Alan Shatter, the Minister for Justice (a post which by defination shouldn't even exist by all accounts) who advises that he has mild asthma which doesn't impair him in any way, but unlike other mild asthma sufferers, is unable to blow into a gardai breathalyser piece of kit ?

Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who in connection to a report issued by the gardai officer in question relating to said failed breathalying attempt, has rather unfortunately had the documents and any connected computer records relating to same, mysteriously and unfortunately go missing from the police station where the report was filed by the gardai officer ?

Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who inappropriately used privileged information he should not have been in possession of (had to have come from within police) to try to rubbish another individual ?

And is this the same Minister for Justice (?) who has banged on in the past about how fraud and counterfeit goods are costing the country billions in lost revenues and who, following a break in at his home it was discovered that several watches stolen at the time were.... er.......counterfeit ?

Is it the same Alan Shatter, Minister for Justice (? ? ? ?) re all of the above that we're talking about ?

Jesus man you KNOW it is so why do you keep posting this drivel cluttering up an already long and complex discussion with the same repeated posts?

AnOrdinaryJoe

bumper234 wrote: »

Jesus man you KNOW it is so why do you keep posting this drivel cluttering up an already long and complex discussion with the same repeated posts?

How is it 'drivel' to keep such things in the headlights ?

He is the friggin' MINISTER FOR JUSTICE for feck sake....... something which seems to be awfully absent for the majority of ordinary citizens and if I haven't got this wrong, something he and his department are sort of responsible for ensuing actually prevails.

I would think that in a threat entitled 'The Anglo Irish Tapes, 'justice' might just be something a lot of people might possibly hope to prevail in relation to same.

You're not Alan Shatter by any chance ?

expectationlost

the central bank, the regulator and ff weren't fooled by anglo they were playing along, they knew it what was happening

AnOrdinaryJoe

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

How is it 'drivel' to keep such things in the headlights ?

He is the friggin' MINISTER FOR JUSTICE for feck sake....... something which seems to be awfully absent for the majority of ordinary citizens and if I haven't got this wrong, something he and his department are sort of responsible for ensuing actually prevails.

I would think that in a threat entitled 'The Anglo Irish Tapes, 'justice' might just be something a lot of people might possibly hope to prevail in relation to same.

You're not Alan Shatter by any chance ?

You can't be too careful about these sort of things you know, re proper identity clarification.

I once had a blind date with a Cameron Diaz in Dublin but when I got there it turned out Cameron was a hairy 22 stone Polish trucker from Cork whose surname was actually Diazen.

K-9

AnOrdinaryJoe wrote: »

You can't be too careful about these sort of things you know, re proper identity clarification.

I once had a blind date with a Cameron Diaz in Dublin but when I got there it turned out Cameron was a hairy 22 stone Polish trucker from Cork whose surname was actually Diazen.

Mod:

Cut out this type of stuff please, the identity of posters is irrelevant to your posts/points, thank you.

bumper234 wrote:

Jesus man you KNOW it is so why do you keep posting this drivel cluttering up an already long and complex discussion with the same repeated posts?

Report any issues about cluttering up the thread and let the mods take a look at it, thank you.

AnOrdinaryJoe

K-9 wrote: »

Mod:

Cut out this type of stuff please, the identity of posters is irrelevant to your posts/points, thank you.

Report any issues about cluttering up the thread and let the mods take a look at it, thank you.

I know it is / I agree....... of course I know Bumper isn't Alan Shatter.....

aloyisious

@AnOrdinaryJoe: Pardon me asking, but does this part of your post above (Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who in connection to a report issued by the gardai officer in question relating to said failed breathalying attempt, has rather unfortunately had the documents and any connected computer records relating to same, mysteriously and unfortunately go missing from the police station where the report was filed by the gardai officer ?) mean that you think and believe Alan Shatter, while Minister for Justice, has had official Garda documents and related computer records go missing, rather than the Gardai actually losing them?

Scofflaw

expectationlost wrote: »

the central bank, the regulator and ff weren't fooled by anglo they were playing along, they knew it what was happening

That seems to be completely at odds with what's on the tapes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

expectationlost

Scofflaw wrote: »

That seems to be completely at odds with what's on the tapes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

fools fool themselves, the regulators/cb were doing the bare minimum including not checking their their concerns about the figures and the property loans, the regulators/cb go to this meetings and say you sure that all you need, and anglo tells them yes, the regulators/cb goes ok they told us what they want no need to doublecheck what we know that the problem is much bigger, job done. and anglo laugh to themselves how they fooled the regulators/cb.

Rayne Wooney

Read this poem maybe 5 years ago and I think it describes best the situation now and the people who ruined this country. These people should live in fear, not holidaying it up in the Bahamas and driving around Dublin in their Porsches laughing at everyone else.


The Uncle Speaks in the Drawing Room

I have seen the mob of late
Standing sullen in the square,
Gazing with a sullen stare
At window, balcony and gate.
Some have talked in bitter tones,
Some have held and fingered stones.

These are follies that subside.
Let us consider, none the less,
Certain frailties of glass
Which, it cannot be denied,
Lead in times like these to fear
For crystal vase and chandelier.

Not that the missiles will be cast;
None as yet dare lift an arm.
But the scene recalls a storm
When our grandsire stood aghast
To see his antique ruby bowl
Shivered in a thunder-roll.

Let us only bear in mind
How these treasures handed down
From a calmer age passed on
Are in the keeping of our kind.
We stand between the dead glass-blowers
And murmurings of missile throwers.

Richard tea

Scofflaw wrote: »

That seems to be completely at odds with what's on the tapes.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Paul Williams mentioned that there is a senior civil servant on one of the upcoming tapes which proves they all knew what was going on.

paddy147

How are all these people still walking the streets 5 year on?

How do they all have massive payoffs and pensions??


How are they all still laughing at us??



If this was any joe soap,then they would be up in court in a matter of months.


But politicians and big bankers who tell lies dont seem to get the same "treatment"????

Zebra3

paddy147 wrote: »

How are all these people still walking the streets 5 year on?

Those people don't walk the streets.

They drive around in very, very expensive cars.

paddy147

Zebra3 wrote: »

Those people don't walk the streets.

They drive around in very, very expensive cars.

True I suppose.....they are probably driven around by their private driver too.

Scofflaw

expectationlost wrote: »

fools fool themselves, the regulators/cb were doing the bare minimum including not checking their their concerns about the figures and the property loans, the regulators/cb go to this meetings and say you sure that all you need, and anglo tells them yes, the regulators/cb goes ok they told us what they want no need to doublecheck what we know that the problem is much bigger, job done. and anglo laugh to themselves how they fooled the regulators/cb.

...and that seems to be completely at odds with what you said about the regulator, the central bank, and FF all knowing what was really happening:

expectationlost wrote:

the central bank, the regulator and ff weren't fooled by anglo they were playing along, they knew it what was happening

What you seem to be saying is that the establishment knew what was happening but let Anglo ask for less than they needed even though they knew it was less than they needed in order to...to what? Allow Anglo to think they were suckering the state into a drip-feed of support while always intending a drip-feed of support because they already knew the bank was completely screwed?

A few too many twists and turns there for me!

more than slightly baffled,
Scofflaw

MrPoker

Zebra3 wrote: »

Those people don't walk the streets.

They drive around in very, very expensive cars.

@maxkeiser really going to town on us today on twitter. Its hard not to agree with a lot of what he says.

AnOrdinaryJoe

aloyisious wrote: »

Pardon me asking, but does this part of your post above (Is this the same Minister for Justice (sic) Alan Shatter who in connection to a report issued by the gardai officer in question relating to said failed breathalying attempt, has rather unfortunately had the documents and any connected computer records relating to same, mysteriously and unfortunately go missing from the police station where the report was filed by the gardai officer ?) mean that you think and believe Alan Shatter, while Minister for Justice, has had official Garda documents and related computer records go missing, rather than the Gardai actually losing them?

I keep an open mind about these things...... moreso these days when we consider the unprecedented levels of 'stuff' which doesn't add up when normal reconciliatory criteria is referenced.

Maybe these days aren't actually unprecedented, maybe it's just that it was all better covered up in the past, but with the ability to continual move the money around hitting the buffers, stuff had nowhere to go but into the public domain.

Like many people, I don't have the answers..... I suspect that things have been deliberately and systematically complicated so much to a level, and 'stuff' deliberately covered up by the losing or destruction of key evidences i.e documents, etc that even highly specialised auditors and detectives would have trouble making all the dots join up.

What I do know is that when it comes to many of these high level public figures and bankers, I don't trust any of them and I think that many of their ilk are liars and charlatans who if they took the eye out of your head, they'd come back and try to get your glass eye if you got such a replacement.

I think many of them are immoral, unethical, self serving and with principles which really belong in the gutter.

I used to think that many conspiracy theories about corruption and matters connected at high level were just that..... conspiracy theories.

Now, due to a combination of simple observation of what has been and is going on, and personal experience with regards to seeing at close quarters how banks in collusion with each other conduct elements of their 'affairs', I know that there are things going on within the banking sector which are just wrong.

I know also that bank CEO's are aware of much of the greed inspired immoralities and unethical behaviours which are going on.

I know also that senior CEO figures are deemed to exert a significant influence on the day to day activities of the financially regulated organisation they head..... therefore systematic breaches of ethical and moral behaviours must surely be considered to be indicative of the corporate culture or tone of the organisations in question....... and as it is the CEO's to exert the influence......... then surely it has to be them who are responsible and should be held accountable.

After all they get the big, nay massive bucks......... in connection to the running of, not necessarily the success, of the organisations they run.

That's how I see it.

Oh yeah...... I'm also concerned about the sort of world my children will grow up in, when it is evident that such corruption and general sharp practices are so prevalent, especially in the upper echelons, the 'elitist' section, of our corporations and dare I say it, in government, especially those sections which are supposed to protect the majority, not the already incredibly wealthy elite i.e. regulators who didn't regulate, etc, etc.

Scofflaw

Richard tea wrote: »

Paul Williams mentioned that there is a senior civil servant on one of the upcoming tapes which proves they all knew what was going on.

Er, maybe...unless the conversation in question has some poor clueless senior civil servant being comprehensively lied to and wetting himself with terror, in which case it would more prove the opposite.

cordially,
Scofflaw

paddy147

Imagine if Lennihan and the Central Bank had have told Anglo to feck off and that they were getting nothing.....


Would be this bad off now?????

Sal Governale

They should certainly be charged. Personally I sometimes wonder why there hasn't been a politically motivated murder yet.

who_me

There are some great snippets in the Vanity Fair article linked previously:

For instance, on what the government knew:

Lenihan arrives at the McWilliams residence, a 45-minute drive from Dublin, marches through to the family kitchen, and pulls a hunk of raw garlic out of his jacket pocket. “He kicked off by saying if his officials knew he was here in my house, there’d be war,” writes McWilliams. The finance minister stayed until two in the morning, drinking tea and anxiously picking McWilliams’s brain. McWilliams came away with the feeling that the minister didn’t entirely trust the advice he was getting from the people around him—and that he was not merely worried but confused. McWilliams told me that he sensed that the mental state of the Department of Finance was “complete chaos.”

On the decision to guarantee the unsecured bondholders:

The bondholders didn’t even expect to be made whole by the Irish government. Not long ago I spoke with a former senior Merrill Lynch bond trader who, on September 29, 2008, owned a pile of bonds in one of the Irish banks. He’d already tried to sell them back to the bank for 50 cents on the dollar—that is, he’d offered to take a huge loss, just to get out of them. On the morning of September 30 he awakened to find his bonds worth 100 cents on the dollar. The Irish government had guaranteed them! He couldn’t believe his luck. Across the financial markets this episode repeated itself. People who had made a private bet that went bad, and didn’t expect to be repaid in full, were handed their money back—from the Irish taxpayer.

On the Merrill Lynch report:

On March 13, 2008, six months before the Irish real-estate Ponzi scheme collapsed, Ingram published a report, in which he simply quoted verbatim what British market insiders had told him about various banks’ lending to commercial real estate. The Irish banks were making far riskier loans in Ireland than they were in Britain, but even in Britain, the report revealed, they were the nuttiest lenders around: in that category, Anglo Irish, Bank of Ireland, and A.I.B. came, in that order, first, second, and third.

For a few hours the Merrill Lynch report was the hottest read in the London financial markets, until Merrill Lynch retracted it. Merrill had been a lead underwriter of Anglo Irish’s bonds and the corporate broker to A.I.B.: they’d earned huge sums of money off the growth of Irish banking. Moments after Phil Ingram hit the Send button on his report, the Irish banks called their Merrill Lynch bankers and threatened to take their business elsewhere. The same executive from Anglo Irish who had called to scream at Morgan Kelly called a Merrill research analyst to scream some more. Ingram’s superiors at Merrill Lynch hauled him into meetings with in-house lawyers, who toned down the report’s pointed language and purged it of its damning quotes from market insiders, including its many references to Irish banks. And from that moment everything Ingram wrote about Irish banks was edited, and bowdlerized by Merrill Lynch’s lawyers. At the end of 2008, Merrill fired him. One of Ingram’s colleagues, a fellow named Ed Allchin, was also made to apologize to Merrill’s investment bankers individually for the trouble he’d caused them by suggesting there was still money to be made on shorting Irish banks.

I'm actually laughing here in disbelief.