British and Irish Lions vs Melbourne Rebels, 25th June 2013, Sky Sports 10.40am

Swiwi.

PR gave MOTM to Faletau. Have not watched game, is this fair?

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Thought he was really good tonight. Showed exactly why he's been called up.

this again.

"To Fill a gap" is why he was called up!

geekington

Who got MOM?

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well you could play the same way, but they wouldnt be as good at it. You're missing the support play of Warburton and Lydiate is not as good at it so Heaslip gets sucked in to do that more. And Heaslip is already doing lots of that. So the quality of ball suffers. And the number of phases we can go through shortens. And that is the opposite of what Gatland wants.

I'm sure if Kidney was picking the team he'd have O'Brien/Tipuric/Heaslip

I don't think there was anything wrong with the quality of ball on offer tonight with Lydiate and O'Brien on the field. Even with the ultimate ruck Inspector Richie Gray running around and I don't recall Toby F having to do that much in the way of support play either

I think you've been totally overstating the importance of Warburton's support play these last few weeks. I think it's something Lydiate does just as well at 6 and that Warburton doesn't offer enough outside of his support play and tackling

wonderfullife

Paul Wallace pretty to the point:

"SOB best backrow on tour and forced his way into the side"

irishbucsfan

Deleted User wrote: »

this again.

"To Fill a gap" is why he was called up!

Showed exactly why he was called up rather than other players available

stackerman

wonderfullife wrote: »

Paul Wallace pretty to the point:

"SOB best backrow on tour and forced his way into the side"

But he also said Grey was outstanding :eek:

Tox56

Le vieux renard wrote: »

PR gave MOTM to Faletau. Have not watched game, is this fair?

Man of the first half, yes. Was quiet in the second half but I wouldn't have said there was an oustanding performer, could have given it to any of Farrell, SOB, Faletau, Lydiate

Le vieux renard

Le vieux renard wrote: »

PR gave MOTM to Faletau. Have not watched game, is this fair?

very good first half, not as prominent in the second but did work hard.

Solid 7 or 8 / 10 performance for me. Probably the best player that played 80 anyway.

Buer

Le vieux renard wrote: »

PR gave MOTM to Faletau. Have not watched game, is this fair?

Not completely wrong. At half time, he'd be a strong contender. Full time, not so strong but the other contenders (SOB, Farrell, Lydiate) had left the field. Ian Evans or Faletau for me.

bilston

Le vieux renard wrote: »

PR gave MOTM to Faletau. Have not watched game, is this fair?

Well possibly but if SOB had played the full 80 it probably would have been him. Faletau gets MOTM for playing 80 minutes, SOB doesn't for playing 60 minutes. I know who should be more confident of a place in the test squad.

irishbucsfan

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

I don't think there was anything wrong with the quality of ball on offer tonight with Lydiate and O'Brien on the field. Even with the ultimate ruck Inspector Richie Gray running around and I don't recall Toby F having to do that much in the way of support play either

I think you've been totally overstating the importance of Warburton's support play these last few weeks. I think it's something Lydiate does just as well at 6 and that Warburton doesn't offer enough outside of his support play and tackling

It's absolutely not something Lydiate does as well. Not close.

And if you think the Rebels pose the same threat on the ground as the Wallabies then I think you're in a very small minority.

Look at how good Warburton was in that facet of play against the Waratahs. It's very clearly something he does better than Lydiate.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's absolutely not something Lydiate does as well. Not close.

And if you think the Rebels pose the same threat on the ground as the Wallabies then I think you're in a very small minority.

Look at how good Warburton was in that facet of play against the Waratahs. It's very clearly something he does better than Lydiate.

Obviously I don't and maybe I'm not seeing it but I just don't see this big difference between Warburton and Lydiates support play that you're alluding to

Tox56

That is an absolute non-answer from Gatland to "how much can we read into SOB's substitution", Kidney-esque. I think SOB will be in the 23, will be interesting to see where

Kiwi_knock

Zebo looks delighted with the chants

Quint2010

I think Feletau will start on Saturday. Thought he was superb tonight. SOB on the bench for Lydiate.

irishbucsfan

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience wrote: »

Obviously I don't and maybe I'm not seeing it but I just don't see this big difference between Warburton and Lydiates support play that you're alluding to

Well it's been clear on tour. Warburton showed why he was selected very clearly last Saturday. His position is secure, it's 6 and 20 that are up in the air imo

JRant

Tox56 wrote: »

That is an absolute non-answer from Gatland to "how much can we read into SOB's substitution", Kidney-esque. I think SOB will be in the 23, will be interesting to see where

Well considering he name dropped a few players but ommitted SOB is pretty damming. You could almost see him stopping himself from saying his name.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Can't see Toby F starting after 80 minutes tonight and a strong showing from Heaslip Saturday. If Heaslip has a bad game Saturday I think we'll see him for the third test though

Kiwi_knock

Faletau is the only backrow player definitely not in the reckoning for the 23

sydthebeat

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Well it's been clear on tour. Warburton showed why he was selected very clearly last Saturday. His position is secure, it's 6 and 20 that are up in the air imo

His position is secure because hes captain. His performances to date have been average at best and not the ' excellent' that you keep alluding to.

if tackle counts is your main argument for an open side flanker, in which warburton lead the stats, then it shows a very real limitation in that position. The aussie ball was not slowed down to any marked degree, and genia ran riot around the field.

Warburton will start again, but not due to his performances.

Buer

Quint2010 wrote: »

I think Feletau will start on Saturday. Thought he was superb tonight. SOB on the bench for Lydiate.

Sorry, Quint. You've posted this a few times before the first test also and it's going to remain the same. Not the slightest hope of TF starting this weekend. You don't play 80 minutes on Tuesday and then get asked to start a test game on Saturday.

wonderfullife

JRant wrote: »

Well considering he name dropped a few players but ommitted SOB is pretty damming. You could almost see him stopping himself from saying his name.

which, in itself, is a huge positive.

Gatland all tour is refusing to give away anything. The fact he name-checked Maitland, Gray and others is a huge plus for SOB's chances. He basically name-checked guys who wont be anywhere near the XV for morale purposes.

I find the Sir Alex Ferguson-esque mind games a bit ridiculous but it's been happening all tour with Gatland, so i'm actually very confident for the first time that SOB will now in fact be in the 23.

stackerman

THIS is what I love about the Lions
Selection opinions

Looking forward to the test and the naming of the team

Anyone got a clip of SOB interview ??
Missed it

JRant

SOB's link and support play for the first try was fantastic. Lovely inside ball to put Manu into space and then he was the first player clearing out when TF slipped, great stuff.

irishbucsfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

His position is secure because hes captain. His performances to date have been average at best and not the ' excellent' that you keep alluding to.

if tackle counts is your main argument for an open side flanker, in which warburton lead the stats, then it shows a very real limitation in that position. The aussie ball was not slowed down to any marked degree, and genia ran riot around the field.

Warburton will start again, but not due to his performances.

I never said anything about tackle counts though. So not really sure what you're talking about.

It's about putting the best back row onto the field to play Gatland's rugby. And Warburton has clearly shown he's one of the more important players in achieving that. And I hate putting it like this, but I think there are some people who just aren't able to see what he does and get frustrated. But the last two Saturdays have been good examples.

Himself and Heaslip were great last Saturday so they should be safe. It's that 6 jersey which I think could change. And if Lydiate comes in (I'd start SOB myself) then there will be a great battle for that 20 jersey.

Quint2010

Buer wrote: »

Sorry, Quint. You've posted this a few times before the first test also and it's going to remain the same. Not the slightest hope of TF starting this weekend. You don't play 80 minutes on Tuesday and then get asked to start a test game on Saturday.

Have nothing against Heaslip just think Feletau is the better player. You are most likely right in that Feletau played 80 tonight just think Heaslip is a bit lucky to get the jersey.

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

Good post on PR re: Barnes today

I shouldn't be surprised, but was Barnes even worse today than he usually is? After 10 mins he said that both scrumhalves had started poorly, but at that stage by my reckoning Murray was error free and had actually made Farrell look like an attacking outhalf with the speed and accuracy of his passing and the speed with which he got to the breakdown. In fact at that stage, and indeed for the rest of the game he gave the best performance of a 9 on the tour. He made a few mistakes, with a poor offload to Grant in the first half and a pointless kick ahead in the second, and his pass to Lydiate from the quick tap wasn't too clever, but for the first time on the tour the ball was being put in front of the receiver, box kicks were excellent, and speed to the breakdown and getting the ball away were allowing to backline to get flat. The contrast between his performance and those by Philips and Youngs in the previous games, even allowing for the standard of the opposition, was stark, and yet Barnes constantly made comments about how poor he was. And then when Youngs came on he almost wanked himself to death, ffs

He really annoyed me

Ugo Monye spacecraft experience

We won't be seeing Zebo again, but I think he can hold his head high after a good tour. Should have been in the original party imo, and if he was I think he would have started last weekend but thems the breaks. He had nothing to lose being called out and it really showed in the way he played. Going to be an important player for Munster and Ireland next season

Buer

Quint2010 wrote: »

Have nothing against Heaslip just think Feletau is the better player. You are most likely right in that Feletau played 80 tonight just think Heaslip is a bit lucky to get the jersey.

I'm a big TF fan and he has had a decent tour but ever since April, JH has found another gear and outperformed him consistently.

In a number of other tours, TF might well have been starting. He's unfortunate that his time has coincided with a player of Heaslip's quality.