In reality, how useful are German, French etc

Amirani

Ravelleman wrote: »

Well that's just untrue.

Hard to estimate, but there's a number of sources that claim it to be the case (or close to being).

http://www.ibj.com/report-from-china/2011/03/14/china-makes-unprecedented-englishlanguage-push/PARAMS/post/25896

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/aug/19/jon-huntsman/jon-huntsman-says-more-english-speakers-china-unit/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/malcolmmoore/100017372/can-china-really-overtake-india-as-a-nation-of-english-speakers/

Amirani

keith16 wrote: »

`

Not sure what your point is?

It's a policy objective of the Chinese Government to have all schoolchildren learning English, and to eventually have a citizenry that is at least bi-lingual.

If this is the case, the benefits of learning Chinese (over other languages) are obviously being exaggerated.

Talib Fiasco

As long as you have a few handy phrases in a few different languages (which anyone can learn in minutes) I don't see the need for learning whole languages unless it would actually benefit you substantially and is a need for work etc. Sure it's pretty impressive to know a few languages but in all honestly I couldn't give a sweet f*ck about it if I don't understand what you're saying.

Rasheed

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

However, if you were to choose one language, I would recommend Arabic. Its widely spoken, importantly in countries where you can earn vast sums of money. There's also a lot of work in the defence industry given the never-ending conflict in the region. A fluent educated Western English/Arabic speaker will never be short of work in the near future.

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

keelanj69

Rasheed wrote: »

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

How would you go about it? Private course?

MickFleetwood

Quite useful depending on what you want to do. It opens up avenues for you later on in life, and, well, expands your mind and knowledge.

It's a good thing.

JanaMay

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.jobs.ie/Jobs.aspx?Categories=Job+Type&Regions=3%2C4%2C5%2C6&Keywords=German%2C+French

No recession in the multiple languages dept.

Have a look at some of those jobs though. They ask for FLUENT second language alongside another qualification (sometimes a Degree/ Professional qualification requiring many years of study) as well as years of relevant work experience. For most people, to become FLUENT in a second language requires at least an Undergraduate degree as well as time spent working in that particular country. This level of expertise is not usually reflected in the salary offered in this type of job.

radioactiveman

rio1 wrote: »

If you mean useful from a career point of view then unless you are a teacher or translator they are only useful for certain jobs. I speak three European languages fluently and find most of the jobs are at a junior level or in call centres. I used my languages when I started working but as my career progressed found they were not the way to go as you are limited when applying for senior roles if you have to combine your profession with your languages.

The are hugely useful on a personal level though, opening up new worlds culturally, from literature to film and music. It's also great to be able to talk to people in their own language when abroad and be aware of what's going on around you.

I find the same thing. I graduated in french, I worked with it for a while after college but I don't actually use it now.
A lot of jobs that require french or german aren't that great (call centre etc). but you can get excellent jobs using languages (translator, interpretor, business etc).

But as rio1 said it is really rewarding on a personal level. I find that I can understand other european languages much more easily such as italian. I know some Italian friends from college and I can now have a simple conversation with them because it is a bit similar to french. The grammar structure is similar and there are some words that are similar. I did have to do a few courses before I got to that level though.
But the most important thing is that I can pick up a paper in french and read the news, or I can watch canadian television and know what's going on there. It's the same for african countries that speak french like Tunisia, Algeria, Congo, morocco etc.
Also it gives you an insight into their culture (and the culture of those other ex. colony countries) that you wouldn't get otherwise. If you managed to read through most of french and german literature from the last 300 years that would be some education even if in the next hundred years they will probably be completely eclipsed by china and other emerging nations economically and demographically...

Radiosonde

yore wrote: »

Cue lots of self-hating idiots complaining about Irish and how it deprived them of becoming fluent in 56 languages and going on to cure cancer and solve world poverty.

When in reality, if they didn't have Irish classes, they'd just have devoted those extra 3 or so hours a week to playing with themselves

Irish is difficult, for many very boring, and, since no one who speaks it doesn't also speak English, totally unnecessary. Learning a new language so you can communicate with people who already speak the same native language as you is a pointless exercise if ever I heard of one. At least playing with yourself serves an actual purpose.

Yitzhak Rabin

Rasheed wrote: »

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

Its not as daunting as it first seems. Many are thrown by the foreign and strange looking script, and the unusual new sounds you need to learn how to make, but grammatically its very simple. Once you break through the tough elementary phase thing progress quickly. Its also a really beautiful and poetic language.

The one part that is incredibly difficult is the vocabulary. They have about 20 words for everything. So its one of those languages, that you'll learn for life, but getting to a reasonable standard isn't as difficult as it seems.

keelanj69 wrote: »

How would you go about it? Private course?

There are private courses, but I actually think classrooms aren't the best way to learn a language.

There's a sizeable population of arabic speakers in Dublin. I think the best way to make a stab at it would be to get something like rosetta stone, or equivalent book/audio course and work at it yourself. Find a native speaker who can also speak english and do a language exchange. Help them with their pronunciation and English vocab in return for a chance to practice your Arabic. You don't even need to meet face to face, and can do it over skype.

Lams

Radiosonde wrote: »

Irish is difficult, for many very boring, and, since no one who speaks it doesn't also speak English, totally unnecessary. Learning a new language so you can communicate with people who already speak the same native language as you is a pointless exercise if ever I heard of one. At least playing with yourself serves an actual purpose.

The way languages are taught in school is ridiculous, they should be taught similar to the linguaphone/rosetta stone methodology.

We should teach Irish as it is ournational language. Learning languages properly is a great excercise for the brain. 40 minutes 3 times a week for a year should have you fluent if you are taught and apply yourself properly.

Celly Smunt

Rasheed wrote: »

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

Suprisingly I find it quite easier to speak than say...french.Im by no means fluent in Arabic but I tend to find it fairly easy to listen to and pick words out.The grammar in the other hand is awful for a Germanic speaker especially when you throw customary slang in with it.

Celly Smunt

keelanj69 wrote: »

How would you go about it? Private course?

You could always get in touch with a local mosque that teaches Arabic classes,Clonakeagh still do it as far as I know.Theyll probably look for a donation at most,probably won't but its worth it.

dd972

If you grow up in either Belgium or Switzerland you've the benefit of constant exposure and familiarity to the other languages that surround you, either on the TV or travelling to another parts of the country, same as you do in border areas, I'd wager that most French folk in Strasbourg would have a grasp of German ranging from fully fluent to a working knowledge as would a Pole on the other side of their German border.

As someone who's interested in languages I find it a shame that we can't even celebrate and identify with our own to the same extent as the Welsh, as for English, I've never liked that 'Anglosphere is the world' mentality that prevails for a multitude of reasons, some perfectly logical and others which are sheer laziness and arrogance.

EoghanIRL

It broadens your horizons , gives you a chance to experience a new country and most importantly job opportunities .

yesman2000

Currently trying to get back into french to broaden the mind and and experience new cultures. I'm hoping to live and work there for a few months shortly.

For people who have learned languages off their own back, what did you find to be the best method ? Are Rosetta Stone-like courses the best option/worth it ?

hfallada

Germany and Austria have the low unemployment in Europe and the highest standard of living. Yet very few Irish have emigrated there as we can't speak the language. Germany is the fifth biggest economy in Europe and really it runs Europe.

You know they say when "when we buy from you, we speak English. We you sell to us, you must speak German."

But on the however hand the French economy is pretty ****

shruikan2553

Chinese is definitely over rated unless you plan on living there, even then you might learn mandarin and end up in an Cantonese speaking area.

I tried to improve my french after doing ordinary level for the leaving cert but found without the chance of using it, it wasnt going to work out. I have seen a few jobs advertised as saying it is preferred to speak another language but the amount of effort required versus the salary compared to other jobs that dont care about another language it isnt worth it for many people who plan on sticking to english speaking countries.

I find I am better off spending my time focusing on getting good grades in college. More than likely they will see that someone did well in college and pick them unless the language was a major part of the job. No point being able to talk about your area in a foreign language if you cant do your job.

Our school system seems to "attempt" (I use that word lossely, secondary school doesnt really try to make you fluent) to create trilingual people which will never work.

Canard

As has been said, I think a lot of the uses are in teaching. That said, they're subjects a lot of people have trouble with in school so there can be a fair demand for grinds, notes, that kind of thing. I think the main thing is that learning a language isn't something everyone can do properly/effectively, so if you can do it well and combine it with something competitive, you'd probably have an advantage. If nothing else they're very enjoyable and can help you to think differently.

yesman2000 wrote: »

For people who have learned languages of their own back, what did you find to be the best method ? Are Rosetta Stone-like courses the best option/worth it ?

I started learning Spanish in college last year and continued with French having done it for 5 years, so I decided to start doing German myself while I had my brain in the mode for picking up a new language. It's nowhere near as good as my Spanish purely because I dedicated myself more to that, but it's not too bad. I didn't use Rosetta Stone personally; there are tons and tons of resources online for most languages and they're all very, very useful if you find the right ones and use them in the right order. Start small, work your way up, and also music in the language helps immensely. Good luck if you decide to try one!

Bozo Skeleton

Having a grasp of the language when travelling abroad opens up a different experience. The more you can speak and understand the language, the better it will be for you. Spanish is a very useful language to have even a bit of for Spain and South America.
Having a bit of the lingo, or at least be willing to learn is a great way to really see the country you are travelling in, and to meet people.

Rasheed

keelanj69 wrote: »

How would you go about it? Private course?

Yes exactly. There were three of us interested at the time so we met with our tutor twice a week. He was a the son of a doctor in the local hospital. We actually advertised for someone and he came to us!

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

Its not as daunting as it first seems. Many are thrown by the foreign and strange looking script, and the unusual new sounds you need to learn how to make, but grammatically its very simple. Once you break through the tough elementary phase thing progress quickly. Its also a really beautiful and poetic language.

The one part that is incredibly difficult is the vocabulary. They have about 20 words for everything. So its one of those languages, that you'll learn for life, but getting to a reasonable standard isn't as difficult as it seems.

It was the script that threw me alright but the pronunciation I found difficult too. The other girls I was with picked it up way quicker than me so I can't blame the teacher. I was never hectic at languages but Arabic confused me no end. We were hoping to nurse in an Arabic country so as you can imagine, we wanted a high level before we even attempted to go.

pmcmahon wrote: »

Suprisingly I find it quite easier to speak than say...french.Im by no means fluent in Arabic but I tend to find it fairly easy to listen to and pick words out.The grammar in the other hand is awful for a Germanic speaker especially when you throw customary slang in with it.

I found French quite speakable, and as I said above, I don't pick languages up easily! I think I nearly went with the mentality that it would be near impossible to learn and then wasn't surprised that I found it difficult. Would make the doctors talk to me in Arabic on nights but it still found it tough. Think I've anything I learned forgotten now.

Lams

yesman2000 wrote: »

Currently trying to get back into french to broaden the mind and and experience new cultures. I'm hoping to live and work there for a few months shortly.

For people who have learned languages of their own back, what did you find to be the best method ? Are Rosetta Stone-like courses the best option/worth it ?

I've used linguaphone to learn german, I'd definitely recommend it. I'm currently using Rosetta Stone to learn Italian and its also really good. A million times better than taking classes IMO.

Wibbs

The learn Chinese trope is common but not very accurate. Chinese is unlikely to become a world language anytime soon for all sorts of reasons(tonal language, needlessly complex in the written form for a start). Yes there may be over a billion speakers of the language, but the vast majority are actually Chinese. Compare that to English, or French or Spanish, where far more speakers exist outside their countries of origin. EG there are more English speakers in Pakistan than there are people in England.

On the teaching of languages here? Well take the usual "oh I have more French/Spanish/German from School than I have Irish". In my case I would indeed have more French than Irish buried in my subconscious. IMH the reason is simple; I was taught French as a foreign language, whereas there was the assumption(in my day anyway) that Irish was somehow magically our/my native language, so although I spent many more years in Irish classes than French, more French stuck. I have no doubt that if I had been taught Irish as a foreign language I'd know far more of it today.

playedalive

rio1 wrote: »

If you mean useful from a career point of view then unless you are a teacher or translator they are only useful for certain jobs. I speak three European languages fluently and find most of the jobs are at a junior level or in call centres. I used my languages when I started working but as my career progressed found they were not the way to go as you are limited when applying for senior roles if you have to combine your profession with your languages.

The are hugely useful on a personal level though, opening up new worlds culturally, from literature to film and music. It's also great to be able to talk to people in their own language when abroad and be aware of what's going on around you.

I have noticed, with many language grads from college, they eventually stop using their foreign languages. I've just graduated myself and speak Spanish and French fluently. I also have Irish but a working knowledge. Unless you want to work in a call centre, that's one of the ways languages are useful on their own. I read once that while they are not an asset on their own jobwise, they can be a distinguishing factor depending on the job you're going for.

Personally, I have found my languages useful in travelling, understanding different cultures, being able to read/watch media in different languages and has given me a lot of personal confidence. There's something very powerful about being able to switch your head into a completely different language. I never want to lose them

Wibbs wrote: »

On the teaching of languages here? Well take the usual "oh I have more French/Spanish/German from School than I have Irish". In my case I would indeed have more French than Irish buried in my subconscious. IMH the reason is simple; I was taught French as a foreign language, whereas there was the assumption(in my day anyway) that Irish was somehow magically our/my native language, so although I spent many more years in Irish classes than French, more French stuck. I have no doubt that if I had been taught Irish as a foreign language I'd know far more of it today.

Ultimately, Irish needs to be taught as a foreign language. But, I guess the fact Irish is one of our constitutional languages does not facilitate this. :rolleyes:

coffee_cake

I'm enjoying learning german, and I'd like to brush up on my french as I haven't done it since school.
Arabic... that's an interesting one. Might give that a go sometime

Tom_Cruise

Can some one please help me?

How long does it take to learn a language and what is the best method/s?

DublinWriter

A mate of mine worked in London in the 80's as a student and he told me the following story. The house they lived in was subdivided into flats and had French, German, and a fair smattering of Arabic and West African tenants - all students over for the summer hotel work.

Being young, they all used to have a barbecue out the back every weekend. Everyone spoke English as a lingua-franca but during the weekend barbecue they'd all break up into their own nationalities and speak their own languages.

My mate said that the lack of Irish really hit home to him when they all split up into their national groups at the barbecue speaking their own respective languages, safe in the knowledge that the other national groups wouldn't know that they were talking about each other. The Irish lads only knew English and all the other tenants would have known what they were talking about.

So, many beers and burgers later, the Irish lads had all descended into 'caca milis, ar nos na gaothe agus dul ga daothe an leaotherois' in a pathetic attempt to speak their own language like everyone else was doing (sorry for the spelling).

Mr Benevolent

I can make myself understood in Swedish, and can get the gist of a French newspaper article. Apart from that, German would be useful.

hatrickpatrick

Thread assumes people never travel, or meet people here in Ireland who speak another European language better than English.

keelanj69

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Thread assumes people never travel, or meet people here in Ireland who speak another European language better than English.

In which case Polish is a good bet?