In reality, how useful are German, French etc

keelanj69

Considering we live in an english speaking country, with a poor grasp of second or third languages, is there any merit to learning German/French/Chinese?

Every Tömas, Richard und Harry can speak multiple languages on the mainland whereas we struggle to maintain any Irish or otherwise after school.

Especially Chinese. People are always going on about oppurtunities with Chinese but are they overstated? If not I better get learning.

Thoughts, anyone? Should we just focus on english and leave the other languages to native speakers in a world that mixes more than ever?

AngeGal

keelanj69 wrote: »

Considering we live in an english speaking country, with a poor grasp of second or third languages, is there any merit to learning German/French/Chinese?

Every Tömas, Richard und Harry can speak multiple languages on the mainland whereas we struggle to maintain any Irish or otherwise after school.

Especially Chinese. People are always going on about oppurtunities with Chinese but are they overstated? If not I better get learning.

Thoughts, anyone? Should we just focus on english and leave the other languages to native speakers in a world that mixes more than ever?

They're very useful. You will see many job postings which require a second language. Also, it's great to be able to go to a country and speak in their own language, it means you don't just have to go to all the tourist haunts where they speak English.

keith16

Everyone should learn a language. It's effect on the grey matter is hugely beneficial.

There is of course merit in learning any language but the perceived benefits of Chinese are absolutely over-stated.

Lams

I can speak a bit of german and have begun learning Italian. I think it's hugely important to keep exposing your brain to knew ways of thinking.

keelanj69

AngeGal wrote: »

They're very useful. You will see many job postings which require a second language. Also, it's great to be able to go to a country and speak in their own language, it means you don't just have to go to all the tourist haunts where they speak English.

As long as a Big Mac is a Big Mac no matter where you go, I suspect most people could survive :P

Le Big Mac.
Big Mac-san.

Frosty McSnowballs

Feck that.

If I didn't take French in school I never would have banged that French chick years ago.

Also, how awkward would it be if I couldn't pronounce Foie Gras as an hors d'oeuvre!

Mange tout monsieur, creme de la menthe

keith16

Lams wrote: »

I think it's hugely important to keep exposing your brain to knew ways of thinking.

This is the very definition of what learning a language can do for you.

Aidric

How useful? Very. It gives you freedom as well as opening many career opportunities for you, that you otherwise would not have. It portrays both ability and initiative to speak additional languages.

MadsL

http://www.jobs.ie/Jobs.aspx?Categories=Job+Type&Regions=3%2C4%2C5%2C6&Keywords=German%2C+French

No recession in the multiple languages dept.

Festy

Both are a lot more useful than bloody Irish

keelanj69

keith16 wrote: »

Everyone should learn a language. It's effect on the grey matter is hugely beneficial.

There is of course merit in learning any language but the perceived benefits of Chinese are absolutely over-stated.

Why is that do you think? Would it only be useful in impressing your OH when ordering a take away?

MadsL

Aidric wrote: »

How useful? Very. It gives you freedom as well as opening many career opportunities for you, that you otherwise would not have. It portrays both ability and initiative to speak additional languages.

Jak se maš. Jak jde tvoje Čeština?

Amirani

keith16 wrote: »

There is of course merit in learning any language but the perceived benefits of Chinese are absolutely over-stated.

There's more English speakers in China than any other country.

MadsL

Festy wrote: »

Both are a lot more useful than bloody Irish

Do you have fluent Irish?

Zebra3

The only use of learning another language is pretending you don't speak it and have birds chatting in front of you in that language and you understand everything they say with them realising it.

Other than that there could be no possible use for learning another language whatsoever.

Festy

MadsL wrote: »

Do you have fluent Irish?

Nicht

yore

Cue lots of self-hating idiots complaining about Irish and how it deprived them of becoming fluent in 56 languages and going on to cure cancer and solve world poverty.

When in reality, if they didn't have Irish classes, they'd just have devoted those extra 3 or so hours a week to playing with themselves

Aidric

MadsL wrote: »

Jak se maš. Jak jde tvoje Čeština?

Jsem dobry, dekuju. Moje Cestina je ok. Je to tezka. Mluvite?

Festy

yore wrote: »

Cue lots of self-hating idiots complaining about Irish and how it deprived them of becoming fluent in 56 languages and going on to cure cancer and solve world poverty.

When in reality, if they didn't have Irish classes, they'd just have devoted those extra 3 or so hours a week to playing with themselves

Or learn another language that they could use in a number of countries.

eg. Spanish

keith16

NiallSparky wrote: »

There's more English speakers in China than any other country.

`

Not sure what your point is?

keelanj69 wrote: »

Why is that do you think? Would it only be useful in impressing your OH when ordering a take away?

Not saying that at all, it's as useful as learning any other language. However, there seems to be some sort of herd thinking at play where everyone says, "oh yeah, Chinese, language, yeah, new superpower, we all have to learn Chinese", in the same way people in Ireland were saying just a few years ago: "oh yeah, house, buy buy, property ladder, trade up, economy".

There's no real substance to it. There are no high quality jobs in Europe that require Chinese. Plus, a billion people already speak it.

keelanj69

keith16 wrote: »

`

Not sure what your point is?



Not saying that at all, it's as useful as learning any other language. However, there seems to be some sort of herd thinking at play where everyone says, "oh yeah, Chinese, language, yeah, new superpower, we all have to learn Chinese", in the same way people in Ireland were saying just a few years ago: "oh yeah, house, buy buy, property ladder, trade up, economy".

There's no real substance to it. There are no high quality jobs in Europe that require Chinese. Plus, a billion people already speak it.

Better for Europeans to learn other european languages so? Spanish, french and german especially?

Aidric

keelanj69 wrote: »

Better for Europeans to learn other european languages so? Spanish, french and german especially?

How did you do in school with languages?

yore

Festy wrote: »

Or learn another language that they could use in a number of countries.

eg. Spanish

Yes of course you would have. Teachers of Spanish in the Irish school system are automatically and without fail genii. Whereas teachers of Irish are idiots and incompetent to the man/woman.

And you had the remarkable foresight, as a 6 year old, to know that Irish wasn't worth learning then but Spanish would have been, and thus, in a rebellious reaction, decided to protest by not becoming fluent in it. Because you'd be fluent in Spanish now. And I salute your remarkable resistance at refusing to allow yourself to become fluent in Irish despite your innate linguistic abilities.

Kinda like the way you knew that maths, science and computers would be where it was at in the future and went on to get 100% in higher level maths, physics, chemistry and biology in the Leaving.


You could always find three hours a week now to learn some Spanish???? Any reason why not?

Ravelleman

NiallSparky wrote: »

There's more English speakers in China than any other country.

Well that's just untrue.

keelanj69

Aidric wrote: »

How did you do in school with languages?

Reasonably well. Why?

Yitzhak Rabin

When looking at a useful language to learn, if its purely from how much benefit that you can gain financially from it, you need to identify place where there is a lot of economic activity, but few bi-lingual speakers.

Chinese is a waste of time from that point of view. There are literally 10s of millions of fluent English speakers there who can work for a fraction of what would be worthwhile for an Irish person.

Continental languages like French/German are useful given what economic powerhouses the countries which speak those languages are, particularly French, given it will give you access to a lot of African nations.

However, if you were to choose one language, I would recommend Arabic. Its widely spoken, importantly in countries where you can earn vast sums of money. There's also a lot of work in the defence industry given the never-ending conflict in the region. A fluent educated Western English/Arabic speaker will never be short of work in the near future.

MadsL

Aidric wrote: »

Jsem dobry, dekuju. Moje Cestina je ok. Je to tezka. Mluvite?

Mluvim dobrý kousek. Ale jenom v Texasu!

Ravelleman

Learning a language is a great experience but I'd have my doubts about the utility of learning Chinese. Given that it takes Chinese people roughly 16 years to master the written element of the language (that's according to a Ted talk I watched recently), I'm not sure how a non-native speaker could a level serious enough with which to conduct business or whatever. Of course, part of the process of language learning is understanding cultural differences, so the utility of that can't be discounted.

Unfortunately, the fact is that the level of language attained by people in secondary schools in Ireland isn't very high in the grand scheme of things. If you study languages in university you quickly become aware of the complexities that the average leaving cert student doesn't even have to think about. That being said, a lot of people leave university with language degrees despite having a terrible level in said language so it's all relative.

Regardless of whether or not Irish takes up too much time in schools, Ireland probably doesn't have the language infrastructure available to teach foreign languages in primary schools in the same way that Irish is taught. It takes a lot of teachers and a lot of resources that require years to build up.

Aidric

keelanj69 wrote: »

Reasonably well. Why?

Just general curiosity.

Zebra3

yore wrote: »

Cue lots of self-hating idiots complaining about Irish and how it deprived them of becoming fluent in 56 languages and going on to cure cancer and solve world poverty.

When in reality, if they didn't have Irish classes, they'd just have devoted those extra 3 or so hours a week to playing with themselves

That's a lot of **** to have missed out on.

rio1

If you mean useful from a career point of view then unless you are a teacher or translator they are only useful for certain jobs. I speak three European languages fluently and find most of the jobs are at a junior level or in call centres. I used my languages when I started working but as my career progressed found they were not the way to go as you are limited when applying for senior roles if you have to combine your profession with your languages.

The are hugely useful on a personal level though, opening up new worlds culturally, from literature to film and music. It's also great to be able to talk to people in their own language when abroad and be aware of what's going on around you.

Amirani

Ravelleman wrote: »

Well that's just untrue.

Hard to estimate, but there's a number of sources that claim it to be the case (or close to being).

http://www.ibj.com/report-from-china/2011/03/14/china-makes-unprecedented-englishlanguage-push/PARAMS/post/25896

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/aug/19/jon-huntsman/jon-huntsman-says-more-english-speakers-china-unit/

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/malcolmmoore/100017372/can-china-really-overtake-india-as-a-nation-of-english-speakers/

Amirani

keith16 wrote: »

`

Not sure what your point is?

It's a policy objective of the Chinese Government to have all schoolchildren learning English, and to eventually have a citizenry that is at least bi-lingual.

If this is the case, the benefits of learning Chinese (over other languages) are obviously being exaggerated.

Talib Fiasco

As long as you have a few handy phrases in a few different languages (which anyone can learn in minutes) I don't see the need for learning whole languages unless it would actually benefit you substantially and is a need for work etc. Sure it's pretty impressive to know a few languages but in all honestly I couldn't give a sweet f*ck about it if I don't understand what you're saying.

Rasheed

Yitzhak Rabin wrote: »

However, if you were to choose one language, I would recommend Arabic. Its widely spoken, importantly in countries where you can earn vast sums of money. There's also a lot of work in the defence industry given the never-ending conflict in the region. A fluent educated Western English/Arabic speaker will never be short of work in the near future.

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

keelanj69

Rasheed wrote: »

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

How would you go about it? Private course?

MickFleetwood

Quite useful depending on what you want to do. It opens up avenues for you later on in life, and, well, expands your mind and knowledge.

It's a good thing.

JanaMay

MadsL wrote: »

http://www.jobs.ie/Jobs.aspx?Categories=Job+Type&Regions=3%2C4%2C5%2C6&Keywords=German%2C+French

No recession in the multiple languages dept.

Have a look at some of those jobs though. They ask for FLUENT second language alongside another qualification (sometimes a Degree/ Professional qualification requiring many years of study) as well as years of relevant work experience. For most people, to become FLUENT in a second language requires at least an Undergraduate degree as well as time spent working in that particular country. This level of expertise is not usually reflected in the salary offered in this type of job.

radioactiveman

rio1 wrote: »

If you mean useful from a career point of view then unless you are a teacher or translator they are only useful for certain jobs. I speak three European languages fluently and find most of the jobs are at a junior level or in call centres. I used my languages when I started working but as my career progressed found they were not the way to go as you are limited when applying for senior roles if you have to combine your profession with your languages.

The are hugely useful on a personal level though, opening up new worlds culturally, from literature to film and music. It's also great to be able to talk to people in their own language when abroad and be aware of what's going on around you.

I find the same thing. I graduated in french, I worked with it for a while after college but I don't actually use it now.
A lot of jobs that require french or german aren't that great (call centre etc). but you can get excellent jobs using languages (translator, interpretor, business etc).

But as rio1 said it is really rewarding on a personal level. I find that I can understand other european languages much more easily such as italian. I know some Italian friends from college and I can now have a simple conversation with them because it is a bit similar to french. The grammar structure is similar and there are some words that are similar. I did have to do a few courses before I got to that level though.
But the most important thing is that I can pick up a paper in french and read the news, or I can watch canadian television and know what's going on there. It's the same for african countries that speak french like Tunisia, Algeria, Congo, morocco etc.
Also it gives you an insight into their culture (and the culture of those other ex. colony countries) that you wouldn't get otherwise. If you managed to read through most of french and german literature from the last 300 years that would be some education even if in the next hundred years they will probably be completely eclipsed by china and other emerging nations economically and demographically...

Radiosonde

yore wrote: »

Cue lots of self-hating idiots complaining about Irish and how it deprived them of becoming fluent in 56 languages and going on to cure cancer and solve world poverty.

When in reality, if they didn't have Irish classes, they'd just have devoted those extra 3 or so hours a week to playing with themselves

Irish is difficult, for many very boring, and, since no one who speaks it doesn't also speak English, totally unnecessary. Learning a new language so you can communicate with people who already speak the same native language as you is a pointless exercise if ever I heard of one. At least playing with yourself serves an actual purpose.

Yitzhak Rabin

Rasheed wrote: »

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

Its not as daunting as it first seems. Many are thrown by the foreign and strange looking script, and the unusual new sounds you need to learn how to make, but grammatically its very simple. Once you break through the tough elementary phase thing progress quickly. Its also a really beautiful and poetic language.

The one part that is incredibly difficult is the vocabulary. They have about 20 words for everything. So its one of those languages, that you'll learn for life, but getting to a reasonable standard isn't as difficult as it seems.

keelanj69 wrote: »

How would you go about it? Private course?

There are private courses, but I actually think classrooms aren't the best way to learn a language.

There's a sizeable population of arabic speakers in Dublin. I think the best way to make a stab at it would be to get something like rosetta stone, or equivalent book/audio course and work at it yourself. Find a native speaker who can also speak english and do a language exchange. Help them with their pronunciation and English vocab in return for a chance to practice your Arabic. You don't even need to meet face to face, and can do it over skype.

Lams

Radiosonde wrote: »

Irish is difficult, for many very boring, and, since no one who speaks it doesn't also speak English, totally unnecessary. Learning a new language so you can communicate with people who already speak the same native language as you is a pointless exercise if ever I heard of one. At least playing with yourself serves an actual purpose.

The way languages are taught in school is ridiculous, they should be taught similar to the linguaphone/rosetta stone methodology.

We should teach Irish as it is ournational language. Learning languages properly is a great excercise for the brain. 40 minutes 3 times a week for a year should have you fluent if you are taught and apply yourself properly.

Celly Smunt

Rasheed wrote: »

We were told in college that if we learned any other language, to learn Arabic. I make an attempt but, by Jesus, it's tough.

Suprisingly I find it quite easier to speak than say...french.Im by no means fluent in Arabic but I tend to find it fairly easy to listen to and pick words out.The grammar in the other hand is awful for a Germanic speaker especially when you throw customary slang in with it.

Celly Smunt

keelanj69 wrote: »

How would you go about it? Private course?

You could always get in touch with a local mosque that teaches Arabic classes,Clonakeagh still do it as far as I know.Theyll probably look for a donation at most,probably won't but its worth it.

dd972

If you grow up in either Belgium or Switzerland you've the benefit of constant exposure and familiarity to the other languages that surround you, either on the TV or travelling to another parts of the country, same as you do in border areas, I'd wager that most French folk in Strasbourg would have a grasp of German ranging from fully fluent to a working knowledge as would a Pole on the other side of their German border.

As someone who's interested in languages I find it a shame that we can't even celebrate and identify with our own to the same extent as the Welsh, as for English, I've never liked that 'Anglosphere is the world' mentality that prevails for a multitude of reasons, some perfectly logical and others which are sheer laziness and arrogance.

EoghanIRL

It broadens your horizons , gives you a chance to experience a new country and most importantly job opportunities .

yesman2000

Currently trying to get back into french to broaden the mind and and experience new cultures. I'm hoping to live and work there for a few months shortly.

For people who have learned languages off their own back, what did you find to be the best method ? Are Rosetta Stone-like courses the best option/worth it ?

hfallada

Germany and Austria have the low unemployment in Europe and the highest standard of living. Yet very few Irish have emigrated there as we can't speak the language. Germany is the fifth biggest economy in Europe and really it runs Europe.

You know they say when "when we buy from you, we speak English. We you sell to us, you must speak German."

But on the however hand the French economy is pretty ****

shruikan2553

Chinese is definitely over rated unless you plan on living there, even then you might learn mandarin and end up in an Cantonese speaking area.

I tried to improve my french after doing ordinary level for the leaving cert but found without the chance of using it, it wasnt going to work out. I have seen a few jobs advertised as saying it is preferred to speak another language but the amount of effort required versus the salary compared to other jobs that dont care about another language it isnt worth it for many people who plan on sticking to english speaking countries.

I find I am better off spending my time focusing on getting good grades in college. More than likely they will see that someone did well in college and pick them unless the language was a major part of the job. No point being able to talk about your area in a foreign language if you cant do your job.

Our school system seems to "attempt" (I use that word lossely, secondary school doesnt really try to make you fluent) to create trilingual people which will never work.

Canard

As has been said, I think a lot of the uses are in teaching. That said, they're subjects a lot of people have trouble with in school so there can be a fair demand for grinds, notes, that kind of thing. I think the main thing is that learning a language isn't something everyone can do properly/effectively, so if you can do it well and combine it with something competitive, you'd probably have an advantage. If nothing else they're very enjoyable and can help you to think differently.

yesman2000 wrote: »

For people who have learned languages of their own back, what did you find to be the best method ? Are Rosetta Stone-like courses the best option/worth it ?

I started learning Spanish in college last year and continued with French having done it for 5 years, so I decided to start doing German myself while I had my brain in the mode for picking up a new language. It's nowhere near as good as my Spanish purely because I dedicated myself more to that, but it's not too bad. I didn't use Rosetta Stone personally; there are tons and tons of resources online for most languages and they're all very, very useful if you find the right ones and use them in the right order. Start small, work your way up, and also music in the language helps immensely. Good luck if you decide to try one!

Bozo Skeleton

Having a grasp of the language when travelling abroad opens up a different experience. The more you can speak and understand the language, the better it will be for you. Spanish is a very useful language to have even a bit of for Spain and South America.
Having a bit of the lingo, or at least be willing to learn is a great way to really see the country you are travelling in, and to meet people.