B&I Lions v Wallabies, Match Thread, Sat June 22, 1105am

.ak

Wallabies by more than 7

Rightwing wrote: »

Back from the pub and that's the general consensus, but I think's it's a little harsh, Lions were lucky to win, but jesus the aussies were better than i thought, they should have won. I got the aussies wrong.

I thought we put ourselves into a lot of pressure. We played nothing like we did in the warm up games, and the Aussies had nothing to do with that. Obviously we were never going to give away much in the warm up games, but what we did well was using strike runners. I can't recall using one strike runner today off a set piece, apart from maybe in the 1st minute when Davies did that damage in the midfield.

I was expecting clean ball off Croft, to Philips, to Sexton, running into gainline, flat pass to a charging North/Croft/Heaslip, bang, over the gainline, repeat...

I'm not saying that would've worked, but it was worth a try seeing as that's where our strengths lie. We just crabbed the ball along the line whenever we got it and ran out of space.

.ak

Wallabies by more than 7

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I was pretty certain the Aussies would be handy enough. The Aussie forward packs have been going pretty well this season, and before it's dismissed as "only the SXV", teams like the Bulls have a massive pack. They always have good backs. You can kind of ignore their form over the last while, as they had so many injuries to key players last year.

If the Aussies win the 2nd test, the 3rd could really be something special to watch.

Yeah the Aussies, especially their pack, really laid down a marker today. Although you could argue the Lions were just far too big and powerful today for their backs, with half of the backline being stretchered off... :eek:

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

.ak wrote: »

Yeah the Aussies, especially their pack, really laid down a marker today. Although you could argue the Lions were just far too big and powerful today for their backs, with half of the backline being stretchered off... :eek:

That plus friendly fire. Barnes wont be sending a Xmas card to the Folau family any time soon.

Rightwing

Wallabies by more than 7

Le vieux renard wrote: »

I was pretty certain the Aussies would be handy enough. The Aussie forward packs have been going pretty well this season, and before it's dismissed as "only the SXV", teams like the Bulls have a massive pack. They always have good backs. You can kind of ignore their form over the last while, as they had so many injuries to key players last year.

If the Aussies win the 2nd test, the 3rd could really be something special to watch.

+1

If the aussies win the 2nd test, they;ll win the series. But:

they've a big kicking problem & will the lions be as bad again ?

I'll still back the lions to win the series, but it's more down to default than anything else now, was an enthralling game if for the wrong reasons.

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

.ak wrote: »

I thought we put ourselves into a lot of pressure. We played nothing like we did in the warm up games, and the Aussies had nothing to do with that. Obviously we were never going to give away much in the warm up games, but what we did well was using strike runners. I can't recall using one strike runner today off a set piece, apart from maybe in the 1st minute when Davies did that damage in the midfield.

I was expecting clean ball off Croft, to Philips, to Sexton, running into gainline, flat pass to a charging North/Croft/Heaslip, bang, over the gainline, repeat...

I'm not saying that would've worked, but it was worth a try seeing as that's where our strengths lie. We just crabbed the ball along the line whenever we got it and ran out of space.

Yes, it was all a bit static, the set move for Cuthbert's try excepted. I guess not having Roberts there didn't help. And I wont mention Phillips again...

ScissorPaperRock

Yeah there was a real lack of punch in the Lions' ball carrying. Hopefully with Roberts back they'll be stronger in that department. I'd also like to see SOB for this reason. And if Bowe were to play he might be a bit more inclined than Cuthbert to come in-field and threaten the line.

Rightwing

Wallabies by more than 7

.ak wrote: »

I thought we put ourselves into a lot of pressure. We played nothing like we did in the warm up games, and the Aussies had nothing to do with that. Obviously we were never going to give away much in the warm up games, but what we did well was using strike runners. I can't recall using one strike runner today off a set piece, apart from maybe in the 1st minute when Davies did that damage in the midfield.

I was expecting clean ball off Croft, to Philips, to Sexton, running into gainline, flat pass to a charging North/Croft/Heaslip, bang, over the gainline, repeat...

I'm not saying that would've worked, but it was worth a try seeing as that's where our strengths lie. We just crabbed the ball along the line whenever we got it and ran out of space.

You've nailed it, but what are these warm up games? Nothing.

Gatland was found wanting, and I;m a big fan of him. Was Croft injured?

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Yeah there was a real lack of punch in the Lions' ball carrying. Hopefully with Roberts back they'll be stronger in that department. I'd also like to see SOB for this reason. And if Bowe were to play he might be a bit more inclined than Cuthbert to come in-field and threaten the line.

Yeah, Bowe is a busy winger. Seriously under-rated outside of the Home Unions. He'd be welcome to play SXV anytime he wants! Ulster could do a swap with Guildford...

Rightwing

Wallabies by more than 7

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Yeah, Bowe is a busy winger. Seriously under-rated outside of the Home Unions. He'd be welcome to play SXV anytime he wants! Ulster could do a swap with Guildford...

Am I right in saying though that's all he is.

I do think we have a tendency in this part of the world to consider just our players and forget the opposition. I was hugely impressed with the aussies today.

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

Rightwing wrote: »

Am I right in saying though that's all he is.

I do think we have a tendency in this part of the world to consider just our players and forget the opposition. I was hugely impressed with the aussies today.

Ah no, he's more than that. What I meant is he goes looking for work, Cuthbert less so today. Tommy also reads the game well. Obviously he doesn't have the raw power of a North, Folau, Lomu etc, but he's a fine winger. Decent strike-rate with an Irish backline that doesn't always click, either. If he's back, Cuthbert's gone, I'd even put money on it!

Rightwing

Wallabies by more than 7

Le vieux renard wrote: »

Ah no, he's more than that. What I meant is he goes looking for work, Cuthbert less so today. Tommy also reads the game well. Obviously he doesn't have the raw power of a North, Folau, Lomu etc, but he's a fine winger. Decent strike-rate with an Irish backline that doesn't always click, either. If he's back, Cuthbert's gone, I'd even put money on it!

Ok, let's be honest, you know your rugby.

Would Bowe, make the NZ/BOK/Aussie teams ?

Pudsy33

I think he's on par with someone like Basson, or Smith. IMO he's one of the most talented Ireland players in years, up there with Sexton and Bod in the current generation.

Ardillaun

Fireball07 wrote: »

If you did that, people would just use decimals anyway, I think 10 is fine...it's better for distinguishing between players.


I'd probably go for :

POC- 8
Jones- 8
Jones- 7
Youngs- 9
Corbisiero- 8

under.

Jones second row doesn't deserve more than Jones prop. Corbs and Jones are fearsome scrummagers.

Ardillaun

MOTM is always subjective, especially when one team loses so many players to injury and throws away the game with bad kicking. I thought Folau and Genia were on a different level. In addition to his two tries, Folau's try-saving tackle on North was superb. The Wallabies, sorry the QANTAS Wallabies, were fast and efficient at the breakdown. And our back line looked like it was in treacle compared to theirs.

For the next Test, my only Lions definites would be Adam Jones, Corbs, Sexton, Halfpenny and North. Sexton caught them napping with his short kicks a few times and his punts were good too. BOD brought cohesion to the defensive line but he did not sizzle in attack. Croft is always a gamble - a fine athlete but not quite a great rugby player.

Fireball07

Wallabies by more than 7

Ardillaun wrote: »

For the next Test, my only Lions definites would be Adam Jones, Corbs, Sexton, Halfpenny and North. Sexton caught them napping with his short kicks a few times and his punts were good too. BOD brought cohesion to the defensive line but he did not sizzle in attack. Croft is always a gamble - a fine athlete but not quite a great rugby player.

I think there's a lot more definites.

I mean...Youngs was the Lions' best player today, Hibbard didn't look great when he came on and Best's darts were disastrous in the warm-up games, so he's nailed-on. Agree with Corbs and Jones.

I'd say both AWJ and POC are, both had good games today. Parling is the only contender, and he's not done enough.

And I'd say BOD is a certainty because he's not going to be replaced by anyone. It's him + one other imo.





And I reckon AWJ does deserve more than Adam Jones. He was solid in the scrum, no doubt about that, but that was it, he was by far the least prominent of the 3 front rowers. AWJ had an excellent game.

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

Rightwing wrote: »

Would Bowe, make the NZ/BOK/Aussie teams ?

Apologies for the delayed reply, some of us need to sleep :pac:

It's difficult to be certain, but yes I do think Bowe would have had an excellent chance of representing any of those 3 countries.

neilmulvey

.ak wrote: »

Jeez I think the lions were mega lucky to get away with the win but the majority of the calls went in favour of the Aussies, especially if you watch the game back. The biggest thing was the breakdown. A lot of calls went against the Lions for going off their feet. Which is fine, I agree with the calls. But the Wallabies did the exact same thing, often infront of the ref, and got away with it. They were almost constantly offside and interfering with play and only got pinged for it once I think.

Also the BOD block wasn't a block. He's entitled to run his line, he didn't move into the path of a running player, he stopped running and the gold player ran into him. A little bit clever, a little bit cynical, but no way was it a penalty.

I thought the Lions got a little bit of justice tbh. In the early minutes if the ref made the correct calls the Lions would have had line outs in the Aussie 22 and not be under their own posts facing penalties. On top of that if the ref had given the advantage to the Lions just before the Aussie first try and Halfpenny scored, its a 10 point swing on the scoreboard.

And as you pointed out, the ref was far from consistant with his breakdown rulings.


As for the remark someone else made regarding Sexton, he is a crucial player for this test series because Farrell/Hogg simply isnt good enough backup.

subfreq

Lions by less than 7

I agree with .AK above but when it's your day, it's your day.

BOD's running line for Cuthbert's try showed all the genius of experience. As the TMO said "I cannot see any clear evidence". BOD played that move to perfection and Sexton's pass was immaculate. Everyone knew that the BIL were going to run a set play that targeted Hooper in midfield in the circumstance. The fact they executed it so perfectly was really special.

Gryire

How good are this Austalia team. Ireland beat them in last world cup. Surely if lions don't beat them then the coach has take responsibility. There is only 3 or 4 of the Wallabies that would make the lions team.

accidentprone1

I know it's been said already, but I just rewatched the first Aussie try and just realised how terrible Philips actually was. He could have easily chased back and prevented that try. Pretty much inexcusable so early on in the match.

bilston

Wallabies by more than 7

Gryire wrote: »

How good are this Austalia team. Ireland beat them in last world cup. Surely if lions don't beat them then the coach has take responsibility. There is only 3 or 4 of the Wallabies that would make the lions team.

Yeah but it's not as simple as that with the Lions. They have about 8 weeks together proper to the tests. The Ireland squad that beat Australia in the WC had been together since the GS in '09 and most had been there longer than that.

Tox56

I've said it before but Bowe has to be one of the most underrated players around, such a complete player. He has done it at the highest level (he was one of the stars of the 2009 lions tour), he's got so many crucial tries for Ireland over the years, he can obviously finish (top try scorer in 2012 6 Nations despite Ireland's average form), he links well with the rest of the backline, his lines of running are fantastic and his defence is better than most wingers. What more do you want? If he was NZ born and raised I think he would be a star of their team

.ak

Wallabies by more than 7

Tox56 wrote: »

I've said it before but Bowe has to be one of the most underrated players around, such a complete player. He has done it at the highest level (he was one of the stars of the 2009 lions tour), he's got so many crucial tries for Ireland over the years, he can obviously finish (top try scorer in 2012 6 Nations despite Ireland's average form), he links well with the rest of the backline, his lines of running are fantastic and his defence is better than most wingers. What more do you want? If he was NZ born and raised I think he would be a star of their team

Yep, if North and Bowe start on Saturday and the backline clicks with a decent 12 then the Aussies will probably be in for a bit of a surprise, as I can see the Lions trying to run it far more often than kick it.

Gryire

.ak wrote: »

Yep, if North and Bowe start on Saturday and the backline clicks with a decent 12 then the Aussies will probably be in for a bit of a surprise, as I can see the Lions trying to run it far more often than kick it.

I agree. They gave up at least 3 try scoring opportunities on sat. Bowe is a far superior player to Cuthbert.

Swiwi.

Dan Lydiate

Gryire wrote: »

How good are this Austalia team. Ireland beat them in last world cup. Surely if lions don't beat them then the coach has take responsibility. There is only 3 or 4 of the Wallabies that would make the lions team.

I'll have to take you on on this one. Every year NH pundits downplay the Aussies, and every year they trundle up North and win more often then they lose. And they just about did the same again yesterday, injuries and a lack of goalkicker proving their undoing, as everyone knows.

I'm not sure if you're referring to the Lions squad or the Lions starting XV, if it's the former then 3 or 4 Aussies only is doing them a huge disservice. If it's the starting XV then there is some debate. Based on yesterday's performance Genia, Folau, Mowen, and goalkicking aside Beale were all better than their opposites. Sexton, Corbisiero, North & maybe POC for the Lions. Otherwise honours were pretty evenly shared, reflected in the scoreline.

On their day, Horwill, Hooper, JOC, Digby, AAC, and Moore are up there with the best players in the North.

TheGoldenAges

Misread tweet cheers Matthew8

neilmulvey

hearing still going on apparently

WorldRugby99

in one british newspaper this morning player ratings-
mike phillips 7/10 held his own against the brilliant genia and made two superb sniping breaks.still more to come.

I wondered if this 'journo' had been watching the same phillips who had been slow,ponderous and error ridden all game and was totally and completely outclassed by will genia.
then i turned over to see-mike phillips' exclusive column-and realized why.
great journalism

Birroc

Lions by less than 7

Interesting player ratings from Melbourne's The Age newspaper.

http://www.theage.com.au/rugby-union/union-news/player-ratings-british-and-irish-lions-20130622-2ooun.html

Beanmonkey

Every time I watch Falou's first try it gets better.

Of all of the options available to Genia (before he put the kick in):

- Inside pass to O'Connor. In which case Davies would have tackled him.

- Looped pass over North (not an easy task) to Falou. 1/2P would probably have gotten across.

- Step inside 1/2P. Davies would have gotten across if he beat 1/2P.

- Straight grubbed kick ahead. Falou wouldn't have won the foot-race.

....

How many players would have made the same decision in similar circumstances (and in the fraction of a second available)? And how many of those would have had the skill to pull it off?

Timing of the kick was perfect, as he drew North in from the wing leaving Falou free, and also committed 1/2P to the tackle.

Speed of thought as much as the execution that made it such an incredible try. Genia seemed to be two steps ahead of the Lions defenders.