Suicide and men.

Pawwed Rig

Reoponed.

Regarding posts above suicidal posters are always pointed to trained professionals rather than post here. The experts have told us to do this.

Das Reich

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

Nothing in life is that bad, that you need to end life, there's so many adventurers that have yet to be bad.

Why kill yourself over work , a girl , a debt etc.

Why not just buy a motorbike and back pack your way through Russia, Asia etc

In a few weeks all your problems wil feel a million life times ago.

Agree with you 100%. I born in a violent third world country in a very poor family, my father is still a homeless and had many other children that were adopted by different families. My childhood was also rough as being white (or almost) in a non white country you suffer a racism that nobody else cares. Fortunately my grandfather was european and I had access to EU passport to emigrate. Then here in Europe I see some lucky people that have everything, native english that makes access to jobs, killing themselves because they are sad. Looking at statistics I also see that Switzerland is a country with a lot of suicides. That makes any sense? People that born in rich +95% white countries and never had any trouble in their lifes are more likely to suicide that african people?

I have an advice for people that are on this situation. Try to move to a poor country for an year or two, out of your confort zone, perhaps that could help you.

Digital Solitude

There's a lot more to depression and suicide than just "I had a ****ty start"

If you don't have it or can't get inside the mind of someone who has it then you have to just accept it. I'm close to people with depression who are suicidal, and no matter how many questions I ask and how much we talk about it, I'm still no closer to comprehending it, I just about understand. All I know is that sometimes, they wake up in the morning and they don't feel. Cue several months of not feeling a thing except frustration at yourself for being like this.

It looms over people even when they aren't feeling depressed, they have good days and periods but each one of them is afraid of the next low, they're all afraid they won't come out of it, and they don't want to face it.

Describing it as sadness is wrong, it's not feeling sad, it's feeling nothing.

I haven't experienced it, this is my 2c on the above

Das Reich

Das Reich wrote: »

Agree with you 100%. I born in a violent third world country in a very poor family, my father is still a homeless and had many other children that were adopted by different families. My childhood was also rough as being white (or almost) in a non white country you suffer a racism that nobody else cares. Fortunately my grandfather was european and I had access to EU passport to emigrate. Then here in Europe I see some lucky people that have everything, native english that makes access to jobs, killing themselves because they are sad. Looking at statistics I also see that Switzerland is a country with a lot of suicides. That makes any sense? People that born in rich +95% white countries and never had any trouble in their lifes are more likely to suicide that african people?

I have an advice for people that are on this situation. Try to move to a poor country for an year or two, out of your confort zone, perhaps that could help you.

Yes because a job, money, all that goes with a first world existence means you will never know the pain of despair, of self loathing, of isolation, of fragility. I agree with you completely.

EIRE forever

Coward? You'd be too cowardly to take yourself off this earth. We're not all living a wonderful happy life like you are with your maybe a big house,brand new car,good paying masters job that you get to boss people around an think your superior to others.
Sounds like you only give a fu*k about no one but you.
My farther took himself off this earth last year, an I've been suffering with depression for years and have had suicidal thoughts for most of them. I'm thinking now that at least my old man had the balls to do it, which I haven't done so maybe who's the Coward out of me an him I wonder.
It's the system that has people committing suicide with their demands of cash and paying bills an ****. But no you love being that slave.

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

Nothing in life is that bad, that you need to end life, there's so many adventurers that have yet to be bad.

Why kill yourself over work , a girl , a debt etc.

Why not just buy a motorbike and back pack your way through Russia, Asia etc

In a few weeks all your problems wil feel a million life times ago.

Wanderer78

I'm very sorry for your loss but please avail of the services that are available to you to help you deal with these issues and best of luck

jeanjolie

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

Nothing in life is that bad, that you need to end life, there's so many adventurers that have yet to be bad.

Why kill yourself over work , a girl , a debt etc.

Why not just buy a motorbike and back pack your way through Russia, Asia etc

In a few weeks all your problems wil feel a million life times ago.

Can I ask how old you are? You really lack empathy, but I suppose it's normal for a lot of 'old fashioned' Irish men.

God I hate this country sometimes...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

jeanjolie wrote: »

Can I ask how old you are? You really lack empathy, but I suppose it's normal for a lot of 'old fashioned' Irish men.

God I hate this country sometimes...

I'm 74 and don't agree with his sentiments at all. Don't make assumptions that all people over a certain age think the same. I have lost friends and family of all ages to suicide - men and women.

As for 'this country', you seem to have an unhealthy dislike for it. It's a wonderful country and a wonderful life here, if you seek it out and give it half a chance.

Shemale

Noe Spicy Stone wrote: »

I'm 74 and don't agree with his sentiments at all. Don't make assumptions that all people over a certain age think the same. I have lost friends and family of all ages to suicide - men and women.

As for 'this country', you seem to have an unhealthy dislike for it. It's a wonderful country and a wonderful life here, if you seek it out and give it half a chance.

I used to love this country but now I am 39, two kids in childcare, working my arse off under more work pressure than before, on the same money I was on 10 years ago, paying a mortgage, pension, picking up the austerity tab, bankrolling scumbags who couldnt be arsed working and neither myself or my wife can afford to go out more than one evening a month, no holidays, my view has significantly changed. The calmest most sensible man I knew, a friend of 25 years under the same pressure, took his own life leaving a wife and young kids behind.


Its funny how people your age think Ireland is great when the majority your age have a pension or two, reduced utility bills, free travel and the freedom to go where you want when you want. Still vote FF and FG, only watch RTE and cant miss the news yet are so out of touch with real life Ireland.

Pawwed Rig

Shemale wrote: »

Its funny how people your age think Ireland is great when the majority your age have a pension or two, reduced utility bills, free travel and the freedom to go where you want when you want. Still vote FF and FG, only watch RTE and cant miss the news yet are so out of touch with real life Ireland.

That is little harsh. Real life Ireland is his life as well as yours. Perspective is just where you happen to be standing.

Shemale

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

That is little harsh. Real life Ireland is his life as well as yours. Perspective is just where you happen to be standing.

I agree to a point but real life Ireland is both, its

A) wages at the same level they were 10 years ago with increased mortgage rates, no childcare relief, terrible health service making health insurance almost mandatory, more anti social behaviour than ever, the price of everything is way up and taxes are higher than ever and mentions of austerity everywhere
AND
and retired people rightly get a pension, discounted utility bills, free travel.

I am baffled by the fact that their generation who seem to build their life around the news on tv, radio and the newspaper have missed part A) in it's entirety.

Depression and suicide are massive problems for men and a lot of it comes from the massive change in the role of men from the last generation / my dads time.

My dad worked 9 - 5 all his life, mam stayed at home minding my siblings and I. He worked weekdays in Dublin city, mam would get us up dressed and fed, dad left the house in D15 in the car at 8:40am and was home at 5:20pm, we would eat, dad would watch telly for the evening and mam would get us ready for bed. Friday night and Sunday night dad went to the pub, on Saturday he would be gone golfing for 5/6 hours and on Sundays if there was a match on Croker he would go and have a few after the match.

Both my wife and I work, we can only afford one car which she has as she drops the kids to the childminder. I work 9-5, we are all up around 6am, help get the kids dressed, fed and have their lunches ready, I leave the house at 7:45am and get home at 6:15pm to help feed the kids their dinner, play with them, bath them and bring one of them to bed and read a bedtime story. At the weekend we both mind the kids and might give the other a break for an hour or two and try get a lie in each. For me a few pints with the lads are the best thing to de-stress me, yet financially I only get out once a month which is not enough to help relieve the pressure.

I know people are genuinely happy to see me as I have a great knack of cheering people up and making them laugh but I am never too far from falling into a black hole, since the passing of my friend the rest of the group are very close and always looking our for each other so I have a good network to get me back on track. I am currently enrolled in college for the last couple of years and one to go as I am trying to get a better job to try take the financial pressure off my family so in trying to improve things I am under more pressure. My sister was worried about me and was talking to my wife who told her I was going to a counsellor and she said my sister nearly fell over with shock, she has never once asked my how I am since.

pilly

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

Nothing in life is that bad, that you need to end life, there's so many adventurers that have yet to be bad.

Why kill yourself over work , a girl , a debt etc.

Why not just buy a motorbike and back pack your way through Russia, Asia etc

In a few weeks all your problems wil feel a million life times ago.

It's attitudes like this one that discourage men from talking about their feelings.

You're supposed to just pull up your socks and get on with it.

Come on Ted, even if you'd never consider suicide don't put this view out there because if your best mate is considering it he's certainly not going to tell you about it if he knows this is your view.

pilly

Handsome Bob wrote: »

I do not think it's the coward's way out and I've seen the horrific grip it can have on people.

But I have to say this: depression is not comparable to cancer. Yes, depression is paralysing and can hold you in a vice grip; but there is always support out there that can bring you back from the brink. Reaching out and seeking help in such a situation can be incredibly difficult, I understand that, but it doesn't change the fact that these things are available to someone.

With cancer? A lot of the time reaching out and seeking help will be fruitless. No matter how much you try and how much you want to, you aren't going to get better.

This isn't a cry of "man up." I would never think or say something so cruel to someone who as I said, is suffering from something that can feel paralysing and all consuming. But the fact remains, you can pull yourself back from the brink.

The cancer patient, often, cannot.

I get your point. But you know there are people for whom depression can't be cured. And I'm talking clinical depression here. The fact that electric shock therapy is still in use in severe cases proves that there are still very extreme cases out there that don't respond to medication, talk therapy or anything.

For these people life can be a living hell.

Galwayguy35

Shemale wrote: »

I used to love this country but now I am 39, two kids in childcare, working my arse off under more work pressure than before, on the same money I was on 10 years ago, paying a mortgage, pension, picking up the austerity tab, bankrolling scumbags who couldnt be arsed working and neither myself or my wife can afford to go out more than one evening a month, no holidays, my view has significantly changed. The calmest most sensible man I knew, a friend of 25 years under the same pressure, took his own life leaving a wife and young kids behind.


Its funny how people your age think Ireland is great when the majority your age have a pension or two, reduced utility bills, free travel and the freedom to go where you want when you want. Still vote FF and FG, only watch RTE and cant miss the news yet are so out of touch with real life Ireland.

To be fair to the guy he's 74 so he grew up in and worked in an Ireland that was a lot tougher to live in than any of us have ever experienced, bad and all as it seems these days.

Shemale

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

To be fair to the guy he's 74 so he grew up in and worked in an Ireland that was a lot tougher to live in than any of us have ever experienced, bad and all as it seems these days.

I dont agree, he was born on the 40s so after the civil war, he grew up in a time where people helped each other, cared about each other, commutes to work and life was nowhere as bad, criminals were in jail, adults got respect, kids werent delinquents, things said and done could not be scutinised by the world (cyber bullying), there wasnt the pressure of the perfect image or societal pressure of how you should be in every aspect of your life, people let you off trains/ buses, people had manners.

Pawwed Rig

Shemale wrote: »

I dont agree, he was born on the 40s so after the civil war, he grew up in a time where people helped each other, cared about each other, commutes to work and life was nowhere as bad, criminals were in jail, adults got respect, kids werent delinquents, things said and done could not be scutinised by the world (cyber bullying), there wasnt the pressure of the perfect image or societal pressure of how you should be in every aspect of your life, people let you off trains/ buses, people had manners.

That is a bit of a rose tinted view. The 80's when I grew up were a lot worse than today. We had poverty, malnourishment, violence in our homes and schools. Commutes to work weren't as bad because no one was working, those that had government jobs who did work were on strike a good portion of the time. Kids were delinquents and probably worse than now. Corruption was ubiquitous.
It is easy to have cheap housing when your economy is dragging along the seafloor. Noone needed housing as there was massive emigration.

pilly

Shemale wrote: »

I dont agree, he was born on the 40s so after the civil war, he grew up in a time where people helped each other, cared about each other, commutes to work and life was nowhere as bad, criminals were in jail, adults got respect, kids werent delinquents, things said and done could not be scutinised by the world (cyber bullying), there wasnt the pressure of the perfect image or societal pressure of how you should be in every aspect of your life, people let you off trains/ buses, people had manners.

Every generation thinks they have it the worst but this is one of the most naïve posts on the subject I've ever read.

In times of huge poverty in the past, people starved to death or went begging to religious orders. Women were shoved into slavery if they got pregnant, men were forced to emigrate alone and leave their wives and children here because there was no money.

I'm not going to say things aren't ****ty at the moment for a lot of people but to believe that older people have had is easy is at best naïve, at worst an entitled attitude.

Shemale

pilly wrote: »

Every generation thinks they have it the worst but this is one of the most naïve posts on the subject I've ever read.

In times of huge poverty in the past, people starved to death or went begging to religious orders. Women were shoved into slavery if they got pregnant, men were forced to emigrate alone and leave their wives and children here because there was no money.

I'm not going to say things aren't ****ty at the moment for a lot of people but to believe that older people have had is easy is at best naïve, at worst an entitled attitude.

What era after the 40's are you talking about people starving to death? People are still regularly going to SVdP for food so nothing has changed there and have you forgotten the let them eat cheese fiasco?

The power the church had in this country was criminal but nobody did anything about it, happy to strike on their jobs but let the church through the state do whatever they wanted to the people. The women being shoved into slavery were put there by their parents because they didn't want to deal with the stigma attached and all because the church said it was wrong, absolute ****ing shame on the parents.

I was born in the 70s and remember in the 80s not one of my friends parents, school friends parents or uncles being out of work and I remember the governmental choas at the time. Our doors always have to be locked, we cannot let our children play unattended in the streets, gangs of scumbag going around with knifes and easy access to guns looking for fights. I know more people that had to leave the country now than I did in the 80s when the country was in the toilet, borrowing money left right and centre.

I have been here for the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s and now for me is the worst I have seen as I previously stated my dad, his friends and my friends dads had it much easier than I have it now, if you disagree that's your perogative.

pilly

Shemale wrote: »

What era after the 40's are you talking about people starving to death? People are still regularly going to SVdP for food so nothing has changed there and have you forgotten the let them eat cheese fiasco?

The power the church had in this country was criminal but nobody did anything about it, happy to strike on their jobs but let the church through the state do whatever they wanted to the people. The women being shoved into slavery were put there by their parents because they didn't want to deal with the stigma attached and all because the church said it was wrong, absolute ****ing shame on the parents.

I was born in the 70s and remember in the 80s not one of my friends parents, school friends parents or uncles being out of work and I remember the governmental choas at the time. Our doors always have to be locked, we cannot let our children play unattended in the streets, gangs of scumbag going around with knifes and easy access to guns looking for fights. I know more people that had to leave the country now than I did in the 80s when the country was in the toilet, borrowing money left right and centre.

I have been here for the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s and now for me is the worst I have seen as I previously stated my dad, his friends and my friends dads had it much easier than I have it now, if you disagree that's your perogative.

And if you want to engage in the "poor mes", that's entirely your prerogative.

If no-one you knew in the 80's was unemployed then you grew up in a very privileged area because unemployment was at 25%, it has never been as high since.

kunst nugget

Shemale wrote: »

I have been here for the 70s, 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s and now for me is the worst I have seen as I previously stated my dad, his friends and my friends dads had it much easier than I have it now, if you disagree that's your perogative.

I grew up in the same period and my parents had it pretty tough. They raised 5 kids on my da's wage as a private music teacher which was pretty crappy back in the eighties because nobody had much money to spend on such pursuits in the eighties. I didn't see much of my Da beyond Sunday evenings because he was working every hour he could to get money in to support us - his day basically started at around 2 when schools finished for the day and would go on until usually 11 o'clock. He worked all day Saturdays and played organ in a local church Sunday mornings for a little bit of extra money. While we saw little of the stress they were in because they hid it from us, they lived hand to mouth and had many sleepless nights trying to figure out how they were going to provide for us. They never went out.

I'm glad your father was able to chill out every evening, go drinking 2-3 times a week and play his golf every Saturday but there was a lot of people that weren't in that position.

Out of curiosity, did your father actually spend much time interacting with you?

Shemale

pilly wrote: »

And if you want to engage in the "poor mes", that's entirely your prerogative.

If no-one you knew in the 80's was unemployed then you grew up in a very privileged area because unemployment was at 25%, it has never been as high since.

I grew up in Blanch in a 3 bed house so it wasn't that privileged at all, my relatives lived / worked in rural areas so my view of the 80s isn't just Dublin based.

kunst nugget wrote: »

I grew up in the same period and my parents had it pretty tough. They raised 5 kids on my da's wage as a private music teacher which was pretty crappy back in the eighties because nobody had much money to spend on such pursuits in the eighties.

kunst nugget wrote: »

I'm glad your father was able to chill out every evening, go drinking 2-3 times a week and play his golf every Saturday but there was a lot of people that weren't in that position.

Your life was tougher because your parents had two more children than mine and worked where he was not guaranteed the same salary. If people had more children than they could afford then that's not the economy that's their choice.

I am not saying the 80's was a piece of piss by any stretch but we have had two kids and we have had to stop there as we couldn't afford another one.

Anyway this is way off topic now, my own view is the massive change in the role of the father in the last generation is a big factor in suicides of fathers now. Going way back to cavemen they went off hunting and the women raised the kids and all of a sudden in the last 20 years the men are expected to be heavily involved in rearing kids.

pilly

Shemale wrote: »

Your life was tougher because your parents had two more children than mine and worked where he was not guaranteed the same salary. If people had more children than they could afford then that's not the economy that's their choice.

I am not saying the 80's was a piece of piss by any stretch but we have had two kids and we have had to stop there as we couldn't afford another one.

You seriously need to get over yourself. Really, your posts are nasty, self-pitying crap.

Shemale

pilly wrote: »

You seriously need to get over yourself. Really, your posts are nasty, self-pitying crap.

That's rich. Am I wrong more kids = more expense?

pilly

Shemale wrote: »

That's rich. Am I wrong more kids = more expense?

Look, I'm not going to enter into this crap with you. You disrespected all older people by trying to discount their life experience.

If we all agree that your life is worse than anyone else's ever can we move on?

kunst nugget

Shemale wrote: »

Your life was tougher because your parents had two more children than mine and worked where he was not guaranteed the same salary. If people had more children than they could afford then that's not the economy that's their choice.

:rolleyes:

Shemale wrote: »

I am not saying the 80's was a piece of piss by any stretch but we have had two kids and we have had to stop there as we couldn't afford another one.

My life wasn't tough, my parent's life was. They were fantastic parents that never made us feel like burdens. They could afford to have us but they had to make a lot of personal sacrifices to do it. They made sure that we all got college educations and were always there to help us.

I have two kids myself, we probably could have had another if we stretched ourselves but a number of different factors, including some health issues, meant that we decided not to have anymore. Tbf, we're happy with our lot which is the important thing.

It sounds like you're struggling to have any sort of perspective.

Shemale

kunst nugget wrote: »

My life wasn't tough, my parent's life was. They were fantastic parents that never made us feel like burdens. They could afford to have us but they had to make a lot of personal sacrifices to do it. They made sure that we all got college educations and were always there to help us.

Sorry if you thought I was having a cut, I absolutely wasn't. I glad your parents were so good.

kunst nugget wrote: »

I have two kids myself, we probably could have had another if we stretched ourselves but a number of different factors, including some health issues, meant that we decided not to have anymore. Tbf, we're happy with our lot which is the important thing.

Hope all is good healthwise now and glad you are happy with your lot.

kunst nugget wrote: »

It sounds like you're struggling to have any sort of perspective.

You know maybe I am.

Pawwed Rig

Shemale wrote: »

Your life was tougher because your parents had two more children than mine and worked where he was not guaranteed the same salary. If people had more children than they could afford then that's not the economy that's their choice.

Ah come on. everyones circumstances are based on the choices they make. I am just 2 years older than you.
If you had made different choices in life then things could be far better or far worse for you. I can think of loads of choices I didn't make that would have made me wealthier but I can also see the good decisions that made me happier.
Reality depends on where you are standing

kunst nugget

Shemale wrote: »

Sorry if you thought I was having a cut, I absolutely wasn't. I glad your parents were so good.

That's grand. I was just trying to show you that not everyone had the same easy-going lifestyle your parents had in the eighties. The thing is, it all came good for them by the time we started fleeing the nest and private teaching became more profitable for him. He's still teaching to this day (he's in his late seventies) and he loves it. That's been a lesson for me too. His job gave him a happiness that was more important to him that money.

Shemale wrote: »

Hope all is good healthwise now and glad you are happy with your lot.

Ah, it's a condition that's easily treated with medication but can complicate pregnancies. The missus and myself weren't willing to take any risks when we already had two happy kids.

I do think you need to look at the things you do have and why they make you happy rather than being miserable about the things you don't have.

Middle Man

ted1 wrote: »

I think sucide is the cowards way out, and no thought is giving to the mess it'll leave behind.

Nothing in life is that bad, that you need to end life, there's so many adventurers that have yet to be bad.

Why kill yourself over work , a girl , a debt etc.

Why not just buy a motorbike and back pack your way through Russia, Asia etc

In a few weeks all your problems wil feel a million life times ago.

Don't be so smug mate - I've recently lost a cousin to suicide, but would never think of her (yes, a woman in this case) as a coward. To be fair, this country is quite a social kip and we all know it even if we won't admit it - many Irish people are prize arseholes who simply don't care for anything besides short term pleasure or property. I have threatened suicide several times because of depression and the failure of people who are supposedly close to listen, so get over yourself!

Deep Thought

The person contemplating Suicide is not the person we all know and love, they are in a terribly dark place when they see the only option for them is to end it all.

they do think about what left behind, but only in the context that whats left behind is better off without them and them being gone stops all the hassle for others.

Do you hate what they did, absolutely

Do you hate them...no, because you love them.