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Smacking yes or no

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    #392
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    movingsucks wrote: »
    Guessing smacking/abusing them doesn't stop their "bad" behaviour then if she keeps doing it...

    Oh, and do you know a disciplinary measure that has a 100% success rate? All children are individuals, you do realise that?


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    #393
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    I personally shudder at the idea that anyone could believe they need to use violence to teach/control/discipline a child.


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    #394
    movingsucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 534 ✭✭✭movingsucks


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    Oh, and do you know a disciplinary measure that has a 100% success rate? All children are individuals, you do realise that?

    Yes I do realise that. I don't understand why you're being so aggressive and condescending.
    If you repeatedly hit your child with a wooden spoon because they swear and they still swear what's the point?


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    #395
    AudreyHepburn
    Registered Users Posts: 5,673 ✭✭✭AudreyHepburn


    iguy wrote: »
    My other half's sister has two kids, boy and girl, aged 5 and 6, and she has a 'chart',
    if they curse, they get hit with a wooden spoon 5 times on the bare bottom as hard as she can hit them, if they want something in a shop and they don't get it and they moan about it, she will hit them three times on the bottom with her hand, and if they cry the actually kicks them once.
    There is so many 'times' she will hit them for whatever they may do.
    The father of the doesn't hit them because as he puts it he's too strong, but if the mother is not around he'll smack them on their hands.
    I think its not right what she does, but feel I can't report her to the authorities, as my partner and partners family will despise me.

    Let them despise you. Her children will thank you.

    That's child abuse, you cannot let it continue. If you do then you are as guilty as she is imo.


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    #396
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    movingsucks wrote: »
    Yes I do realise that. I don't understand why you're being so aggressive and condescending.
    If you repeatedly hit your child with a wooden spoon because they swear and they still swear what's the point?

    I never said anything about hitting a child with a wooden spoon and I certainly don't condone that.


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    #397
    movingsucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 534 ✭✭✭movingsucks


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    I never said anything about hitting a child with a wooden spoon and I certainly don't condone that.

    Then why did you quote my post that was referring to a post where a mother was hitting her kids with a wooden spoon?


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    #398
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    Oh, and do you know a disciplinary measure that has a 100% success rate? All children are individuals, you do realise that?

    So you may as well hit a child repeatedly with a wooden spoon for minor indiscretions like swearing? How about engaging with the child on why you don't think swearing is right.


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    #399
    sunflower27
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,822 ✭✭✭sunflower27


    movingsucks wrote: »
    Then why did you quote my post that was referring to a post where a mother was hitting her kids with a wooden spoon?

    I was pointing out that no form of discipline is going to work on every single child, so, just because someone said their discipline didn't work for them doesn't mean that is always the case.

    A swift smack certainly did the trick for me when I had been naughty. And it did a lot more than being simply told 'that is a bad word'. Again, just my experience. What works for one child will not work for all.


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    #400
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    wolfpawnat wrote: »
    Hehe, Why are you disciplining adults is my question? :D

    Some of them reeeeeeeealllly like it ;) haha


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    #401
    kunst nugget
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,375 ✭✭✭✭kunst nugget


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    I was pointing out that no form of discipline is going to work on every single child, so, just because someone said their discipline didn't work for them doesn't mean that is always the case.

    A swift smack certainly did the trick for me when I had been naughty. And it did a lot more than being simply told 'that is a bad word'. Again, just my experience. What works for one child will not work for all.

    Punishing a child without resorting to violence doesn't simply entail you saying 'Ah now, that's wrong' - that is never going to work. Effective disciplining means engaging with your child so they actually know what they are being punished for and resolving it effectively.


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    #402
    movingsucks
    Closed Accounts Posts: 534 ✭✭✭movingsucks


    sunflower27 wrote: »
    I was pointing out that no form of discipline is going to work on every single child, so, just because someone said their discipline didn't work for them doesn't mean that is always the case.

    A swift smack certainly did the trick for me when I had been naughty. And it did a lot more than being simply told 'that is a bad word'. KAgain, just my experience. What works for one child will not work for all.

    You weren't pointing anything out when you replied to me, you were being rude imo.

    I was referring to the specific story in the post where a parent is repeatedly hitting/kicking their kids. Clearly it's not working for them. That's all I said. I was smacked as a kid (posted earlier in the thread) didn't work for us but I never said anything about every single child so go pick a fight with someone else.


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    #403
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Just to throw in my tuppence, and to note that i haven't read all 27 pages of the thread, but i'm sure i know what the majority think, and it's not what i think.

    When i was younger, i got bate! Started with smacks on the arse, upgraded to wooden spoons, and so on and so forth (the last thing i was hit with was a sweeping brush, and the worst was a wavin hurley!). But, i deserved it. Each and every time.

    I was brought up in the country, with the nearest village 1.5 miles away (village is a very strong word, it had 2 pubs and a church), and nearest town 5 miles away (town a very strong word again). And i was a right little baxtard. Getting in trouble at school, galavanting around the countryside p'ing off farmers for playing on the hay bales, etc. And i was a smart fecker too, and not intelligent smart; back-answering, cheekiness, all the way up to vulgar in my late teens.

    So, my parents being who they were and brought up in the times that they were, doled out the corporal punishment. My brothers and sister got the same (i'm the youngest). Hell, when the father decided to re-plant the hedge out the back (i was still a babbie) he found 27 wooden spoons buried there, the brothers handy work. But, the parents got schelps for being bould, and you got a caning/ruler in school for whatever reason.

    I could seriously have turned out on the wrong side of the law, one of my good friends from my school days has been arrested numerous times for dealing. That could have been me if it wasn't for an unmerciful hiding i got from the father for associating with him. The mother let me know she didn't like him either, and any time i went against their wishes i got more than smacked. But, again, deserved it. But it wasn't a hiding for their enjoyment, it was punishment for being bold.

    And, it worked. I've no criminal record, and have a responsible job. I didn't carry over my experiences into my job, but as for parenthood, i don't know. I'm 30, but have no intention of having children (don't like them, different topic). However, i do reckon that if i ever did have children, i would be pro smacking. And should it need to be escalated (as was the case for me), then i would escalate. Obviously, the punishment to fit the crime, and within reason (i wasn't a child when the wavin was used, i was well into my teens).

    Call me wrong, i don't mind. But i believe that there are times when words just don't work. And kids today sueing their own parents, or ringing social welfare for "abusive" words, let alone smacks, is a step too far imo. Granted, if the parents are bating them for the sake of bating them, grand, ring away. But for the odd smack when young... And I don't believe i've ever had a mark from the batings, be it that they done it in such a way that nothing showed up, or they really only used little force and relied more on the shock - either way, it was effective!!!

    Maybe it's just ingrained into me (and i'm sure someone will say that they're delighted i've no intention of having children as they will be saved the "abuse"), but that's how i feel. Queue all the people giving out in 3, 2, 1...


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    #404
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    You were beaten with a hurley and convinced you deserved it?


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    #405
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Just to throw in my tuppence, and to note that i haven't read all 27 pages of the thread, but i'm sure i know what the majority think, and it's not what i think.

    When i was younger, i got bate! Started with smacks on the arse, upgraded to wooden spoons, and so on and so forth (the last thing i was hit with was a sweeping brush, and the worst was a wavin hurley!). But, i deserved it. Each and every time.

    I was brought up in the country, with the nearest village 1.5 miles away (village is a very strong word, it had 2 pubs and a church), and nearest town 5 miles away (town a very strong word again). And i was a right little baxtard. Getting in trouble at school, galavanting around the countryside p'ing off farmers for playing on the hay bales, etc. And i was a smart fecker too, and not intelligent smart; back-answering, cheekiness, all the way up to vulgar in my late teens.

    So, my parents being who they were and brought up in the times that they were, doled out the corporal punishment. My brothers and sister got the same (i'm the youngest). Hell, when the father decided to re-plant the hedge out the back (i was still a babbie) he found 27 wooden spoons buried there, the brothers handy work. But, the parents got schelps for being bould, and you got a caning/ruler in school for whatever reason.

    I could seriously have turned out on the wrong side of the law, one of my good friends from my school days has been arrested numerous times for dealing. That could have been me if it wasn't for an unmerciful hiding i got from the father for associating with him. The mother let me know she didn't like him either, and any time i went against their wishes i got more than smacked. But, again, deserved it. But it wasn't a hiding for their enjoyment, it was punishment for being bold.

    And, it worked. I've no criminal record, and have a responsible job. I didn't carry over my experiences into my job, but as for parenthood, i don't know. I'm 30, but have no intention of having children (don't like them, different topic). However, i do reckon that if i ever did have children, i would be pro smacking. And should it need to be escalated (as was the case for me), then i would escalate. Obviously, the punishment to fit the crime, and within reason (i wasn't a child when the wavin was used, i was well into my teens).

    Call me wrong, i don't mind. But i believe that there are times when words just don't work. And kids today sueing their own parents, or ringing social welfare for "abusive" words, let alone smacks, is a step too far imo. Granted, if the parents are bating them for the sake of bating them, grand, ring away. But for the odd smack when young... And I don't believe i've ever had a mark from the batings, be it that they done it in such a way that nothing showed up, or they really only used little force and relied more on the shock - either way, it was effective!!!

    Maybe it's just ingrained into me (and i'm sure someone will say that they're delighted i've no intention of having children as they will be saved the "abuse"), but that's how i feel. Queue all the people giving out in 3, 2, 1...

    um....


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    #406
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Yup, deserved it. Maybe beaten is too strong a word, a few schelps across the arse is all it was.


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    #407
    6am7f9zxrsjvnb
    Closed Accounts Posts: 430 ✭✭6am7f9zxrsjvnb


    Would you smack a work colleague for acting the maggot? Smacking children is for lazy,impatient and inarticulate parents.


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    #408
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Boston Squeaking Steeple wrote: »
    Would you smack a work colleague for acting the maggot?

    God i'd love to with certain colleagues.


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    #409
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    The beatings clearly didn't work if it had to be escalated. The beatings with the hand didn't work, so then they beat you with the wooden spoon, and it didn't work, and then they beat you with the sweeping brush, and that didn't work? Clearly they were flogging a dead horse. Obviously the corporal punishment didn't work for you. That would be like putting you on time out at 17 because it didn't work when you were 3/4/5/6/7/8.


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    #410
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    The beatings clearly didn't work if it had to be escalated. The beatings with the hand didn't work, so then they beat you with the wooden spoon, and it didn't work, and then they beat you with the sweeping brush, and that didn't work? Clearly they were flogging a dead horse. Obviously the corporal punishment didn't work for you. That would be like putting you on time out at 17 because it didn't work when you were 3/4/5/6/7/8.

    But they did work. What i got punished for, i didn't do again. I didn't have the cop on to realise that if i done something else i'd get punished, but that was me, always trying to push my luck.


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    #411
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    That's just so sad, to be beaten and convinced you're a bad child and deserving it for just being up to a bit of mischief and convinced you'd be in jail without it
    Definition of abusive relationship or what


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    #412
    vitani
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,824 ✭✭✭vitani


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    But they did work. What i got punished for, i didn't do again. I didn't have the cop on to realise that if i done something else i'd get punished, but that was me, always trying to push my luck.

    So you were beaten for the first offence of every particular 'crime'? Without being warned beforehand that you shouldn't do it?


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    #413
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    bluewolf wrote: »
    That's just so sad, to be beaten and convinced you're a bad child and deserving it for just being up to a bit of mischief and convinced you'd be in jail without it
    Definition of abusive relationship or what

    Far from it. I know all about the victim mentality, and i guarantee you that i do not have it. I have the utmost respect for my parents, and love them dearly. I see what they did, and why they did it. They didn't get the same education you get nowadays, and corporal punishment was a part of their childhood, both at home and in school. It's obvious that it would pass on, neither of them went to college, and were lucky to even have finished school.

    I don't, and never will, "blame" them for what they did. I believe they done a fantastic job considering the circumstances. And i'll appreciate it if you refer to my parents as having an abusive relationship with me, thank you very much.
    vitani wrote: »
    So you were beaten for the first offence of every particular 'crime'? Without being warned beforehand that you shouldn't do it?

    God no, i could be here all day explaining each individual time, but the basic principle was a verbal lashing for the first few times, and if i didn't cop myself on, the threat of a few slaps would be used, and then the actual slaps.

    Reading back over my posts, i think it's coming across that i was bet left and right all day long. This wasn't the case. I couldn't tell you the frequency of the slaps, but it wasn't very often, and was over a 10+ year period! My parents are lovely, anyone who knows them will tell you that. It's just the way they were brought up.


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    #414
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    vitani wrote: »
    So you were beaten for the first offence of every particular 'crime'? Without being warned beforehand that you shouldn't do it?

    Which kind of makes me wonder - how did he/she ever learn to tell what was ok and what wasn't, then, if they couldn't make out any pattern?


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    #415
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    They didn't get the same education you get nowadays, and corporal punishment was a part of their childhood, both at home and in school. It's obvious that it would pass on, neither of them went to college, and were lucky to even have finished school.
    That's lovely and all, but you've got the education and still insist you'd do the same, so your excuses don't really stand up:
    i do reckon that if i ever did have children, i would be pro smacking. And should it need to be escalated (as was the case for me), then i would escalate.

    Cycle of beating is what it is.
    And i'll appreciate it if you refer to my parents as having an abusive relationship with me, thank you very much.
    When a child is beaten with a hurley, I will call it exactly what it is.


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    #416
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Which kind of makes me wonder - how did he/she ever learn to tell what was ok and what wasn't, then, if they couldn't make out any pattern?

    I (he) learned the same as everyone else. The punishment fit the crime. I didn't get a few smacks for not doing my homework. It was reserved for serious repeat situations, like stealing money, getting drunk, trying drugs, etc.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    That's lovely and all, but you've got the education and still insist you'd do the same, so your excuses don't really stand up

    I said i reckon i would, but i hopefully will never know. I understand that nowadays verbal communication is the key, but i can't say for definite that i wouldn't smack. If the child was anything like me when i was young, i could probably guarantee a smack or two.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    Cycle of beating is what it is.

    Indeed.
    bluewolf wrote: »
    When a child is beaten with a hurley, I will call it exactly what it is.

    I'll tell you otherwise in my situation. I won't comment on anyone elses, but in my situation, it was not an abusive relationship. You can take my word for it, or believe that you know me and my parents better than i do.


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    #417
    Shenshen
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,453 Mod ✭✭✭✭Shenshen


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    I (he) learned the same as everyone else. The punishment fit the crime. I didn't get a few smacks for not doing my homework. It was reserved for serious repeat situations, like stealing money, getting drunk, trying drugs, etc.

    Yet you stated that while you never did the same thing twice, you kept getting beaten for new things you did - instead of getting a reasonable explanation as to what kind of behaviour is unacceptable and why? Surely even without an education that should have been possible, rather than applying physical violence every time you infringed on a rule you clearly stated you didn't realise was in place?


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    #418
    OldNotWIse
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    bluewolf wrote: »
    That's just so sad, to be beaten and convinced you're a bad child and deserving it for just being up to a bit of mischief and convinced you'd be in jail without it
    Definition of abusive relationship or what

    Maybe its someone against slapping trying to show us how damaging it can be?


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    #419
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    I know of a child who was beaten by his mother when he was little, a wooden spoon to his bare bum. The child ran into the bathroom and was trying to put his bum down the toilet to stop it stinging with the cold water.

    That's the height of abuse, can you even begin to understand what kind of monster would take a HURL to a child? Jesus man.

    Maybe if they didn't beat you so much you wouldn't have stolen money and tried drugs.


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    #420
    Potential-Monke
    Registered Users Posts: 13,915 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Shenshen wrote: »
    Yet you stated that while you never did the same thing twice, you kept getting beaten for new things you did - instead of getting a reasonable explanation as to what kind of behaviour is unacceptable and why? Surely even without an education that should have been possible, rather than applying physical violence every time you infringed on a rule you clearly stated you didn't realise was in place?

    I never did what i got slaps for twice. As i said, i pushed my parents as far as i could go, and when they didn't have any other choice, corporal punishment was used (after other attempts and threats of corporal punishment). I was the one who was pushing it, and that is why i believe that it was deserved.

    Again, as i said above, i will never think any less of my parents for it. I admire my parents for the life they've gone through, and the sacrifices they made to give us a good life, and that is exactly what we had. And hearing the stories of what they went through to make us happy, i'm annoyed at myself for making it harder for them.

    I'm sure someone will say that the "trauma" from the beatings has made me disillusioned into thinking that they're the victim in all this. But it's not, and no one will try and convince me otherwise. Why is it so hard to accept that they did what they believed that to be done, and none of us (their children) are any the worse for it.
    LexieOnRale wrote: »
    I know of a child who was beaten by his mother when he was little, a wooden spoon to his bare bum. The child ran into the bathroom and was trying to put his bum down the toilet to stop it stinging with the cold water.

    That's the height of abuse, can you even begin to understand what kind of monster would take a HURL to a child? Jesus man.

    Maybe if they didn't beat you so much you wouldn't have stolen money and tried drugs.

    The furthest you can get from monsters. They did what they believed, and were brought up believing, was what had to be done. I stole money because i wanted to buy sweets and coca-cola, games for the SNES, and action men (which they also bought, but i was greedy and wanted more). And i tried drugs because i wanted to. Nothing to do with the beatings.


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    #421
    coffee_cake
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Politics Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 81,310 CMod ✭✭✭✭coffee_cake


    Potential-Monke wrote: »
    Why is it so hard to accept that they did what they believed that to be done, and none of us (their children) are any the worse for it.

    Because you've decided that it was ok to be beaten with a hurl and broom, and because you've said you'd do similar to your own future kids, that's why
    Anyway I'm not going to argue this any more, it's just too sad


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