Smacking yes or no

OldNotWIse

Leftist wrote: »

So your dad took the time to explain and teach you something.

Maybe it was better than slapping you after he watched you kill it?

that's the point people are trying to make in opposition to slapping.

I realise that, my post was more a "discipline is needed" as opposed to "three cheers for slapping" though

wolfpawnat

kunst nugget wrote: »

The main thrust behind of a lot of the arguments on here are 'no smacking = no discipline' so while I might have been replying to your post I was just trying to address wider points. I agree there are many ways to discipline your child and you'll find the ones that are most effective for your children but I genuinely believe that if you smack your child you've lost control of a situation and that's your fault, not the child.

I discipline my kids and I'd see myself as pretty strict, making sure they aren't taking the piss and calling them up on it if they are getting out of hand and punishing them if required. I know kids can drive you crazy but what good is it going to do my child if I, at 6 foot and 15 and a half stone, was the to strike them. It's a bullying tactic plain and simple and there are always other ways to approach it. Tbf, I'm not aiming this at but just addressing some of the points raised.

Yes, the attitude that your child is not disciplined if you don't smack is fascinating, well to me anyway. As I stated, there is more than one way to raise a child.

I tell my son not to be a pushover, never start a fight, but defend yourself if you have to. We teach him boxing (he is only 4) but already there are rules, "only with daddy" "only when he and you are wearing your gloves" how could we hope for him to understand the rules if every time he stepped out of line (and lets face it, kids ALWAYS push the line) he was going to receive physical punishment. I am a small woman, but my son respects me more than most kids would respect their mom's because when I say that X or Y is going to be taken away, I will damn well do it and he knows it! And if daddy gets involved, then there is trouble. My partner has never yelled or smacked my son, not once, but by God when he decides on a punishment, tears well up in my sons eyes because he knows me taking scooter away is nothing compared to daddy not bringing him out playing GAA or practising boxing.

On the spider thing, random and OT I know, but yesterday my son saw a worm and did the whole "euch, disgusting" routine, I assume a girl in pre-school or even his teacher said it before. I asked him why, he couldn't answer. I told him that without worms grass wouldn't be so nice and green and seeds wouldn't grow since they live in mud and turn it to keep it fresh. Now he doesn't see them as "disgusting". It's amazing what we can be taught.

kunst nugget

imtdub wrote: »

Are you a special needs person too? If not, There's a thing called common sense , use it :eek:

Well, my common sense would say I shouldn't smack her just like I shouldn't smack children but the logic employed in this thread is that if she doesn't have the same command of logic and reasoning as a normal adult I can smack her to keep in line. I mean, according to others, it's not going to do her any harm, is it?

suicide_circus

Shenshen wrote: »

So because the adult is incapable of using child logic and retraint, it's ok to beat the kid instead?

if you dont recognise the difference between a light smack and a beating then there is little to discuss here

kunst nugget wrote: »

I have a special needs cousin who has trouble understanding logic and boundaries sometimes. Is it okay for me to smack her to keep her in line?

If she was about to stick hand into a pot of boiling water or the like, then yes, maybe that would be the best way.of making sure she dosnt do it again.

I dont claim to be any kind of expert in the field, dont have kids or a phd in child psychology. But i do recognise that all children are different and all parents are of differing abilities. I wont demonize a parent who very occasionally uses a moderate slap on the rear as a means of imparting the gift of discipline on their child. Is reasoned discussion and consensus the preferred way? Yes! Does it always work? No.

imtdub

kunst nugget wrote: »

Well, my common sense would say I shouldn't smack her just like I shouldn't smack children but the logic employed in this thread is that if she doesn't have the same command of logic and reasoning as a normal adult I can smack her to keep in line. I mean, according to others, it's not going to do her any harm, is it?

Look you can argue all day on the technicalities, we're human beings and not technical beings, and since we can reason and use logic and common sense, as the situation demands I would use a treat, explaination, a smack to discipline my kid and I don't see anything wrong with that.

PS: fully agree with people who say today's kids are more bratty than us and these are only 10-14 year olds, just walk around smithfield, stoneybatter, North kings street in the evenings.

wolfpawnat

What has to be noted about the "it did us no harm" (myself included) is that few if any use it or would use it when they have kids. Child development studies and even the nanny shows on tv have shown us discipline without physicality works wonders, just as long as there is actually some form of discipline in the childs life.

Cork24

Leftist wrote: »

So your dad took the time to explain and teach you something.
Maybe it was better than slapping you after he watched you kill it?
that's the point people are trying to make in opposition to slapping.

Theirs a big difference in teaching a kid, about awareness of other beings be it humans or animals.

Then a Kid just acting out cos he didn't get the toy in the shop screaming and shouting the place down,

steddyeddy

I don't think smacking is physical abuse or anywhere near in the same ballgame. I think of the brats running around today could do with more discipline too be honest.

Shenshen

suicide_circus wrote: »

if you dont recognise the difference between a light smack and a beating then there is little to discuss here

Yep, that's what a friend of mine was told by her boyfriend, too....

mikom

Shenshen wrote: »

But I remind myself that where I live now is not where I grew up, and that just because I never saw children behaving anti-socially when I was a child doesn't necessarily mean it wasn't happening.

Really........

Shenshen wrote: »

My brother (having been beaten the same way I had been throughout childhood) once set fir to a bit of woodland in order to "drive out some annoying adults who were having a picknick where we wanted to play".
Does that count?



Edit : That happened 30 years ago, during those "good old days".

Shenshen

mikom wrote: »

Really........

I never saw that, I wasn't with him at the time.
I heard about it when the police brought him home. :P

godwin

Yes , if my kids start being little ****s they get smacked , they will thank me for it in time , just like I thanked my ould man for setting me straight when I was a little cnut.

Leftist

godwin wrote: »

Yes , if my kids start being little ****s they get smacked , they will thank me for it in time , just like I thanked my ould man for setting me straight when I was a little cnut.

you said thanks when your dad beat you?

wow.

godwin

Leftist wrote: »

you said thanks when your dad beat you?

wow.

Thanked him later on in life when I realised I needed it, if he didn't keep the pressure on me I would have dropped out of school at 16 , not went to college , not got my masters , not got the job I have now. I would have been like the rest of the kids on my housing estate I grew up with and hung out with and be either signing on or selling drugs and still living in the same ****ty estate.

SusieBlue

jugger0 wrote: »

Sounds like a job well done to me.

I disagree completely. Children should behave themselves because it is the right thing to do, and because they know how to conduct themselves appropriately. They shouldn't do it because they're afraid of getting a slap. What exactly is that teaching them?

I would want my children to know that I love them regardless and that they don't have to prove themselves to me by tiptoeing around me incase they get a clatter, they'd know that even when I was angry and disappointed in them that I still loved them.

At what age does it stop being appropriate? Would if be okay for my dad to now give me a clatter for answering him back? If not, why was it acceptable for him to hit me as a child but not now?

I'm not at all surprised at how this thread has turned out. Typical "it never did me any harm" attitudes yet time and time again we see threads about depression and anxiety. I think there is definitely a link between the two.

jaja321

Agree that discipline maybe lacking with some kids but discipline doesn't have to equate to smacking, there are other ways to discipline a child.

Frank Black

godwin wrote: »

Thanked him later on in life when I realised I needed it, if he didn't keep the pressure on me I would have dropped out of school at 16 , not went to college , not got my masters , not got the job I have now. I would have been like the rest of the kids on my housing estate I grew up with and hung out with and be either signing on or selling drugs and still living in the same ****ty estate.

So, you think the rest of the kids you grew up with weren't hit enough by their parents, and this has resulted in them being either unemployed or involved in criminal activity?

TheDoc

Cydoniac wrote: »

Never. Think it's abusive, full stop. For all the people who say getting a smack did no harm, didn't do me any harm not to be smacked either. If your parents need to hit you to bring you up properly there's something amiss. I wonder how some parents can do that regularly to a child who is essentially defenseless. There's always a better way.

I assume the better way is the "new school" time-out method?

Give me a break........

I heard on Newstalk yesterday on the drive home some guy giving advice to parents on how to deal with their children who were unruly.

And example was a parent from Cork rang, whose 4 year old daughter, was refusing to wear the clothes she was provided, refused to wear clothes when she was let buy them, was becoming aggressive against children of her age who didnt conform to her ways, and was frequently using the F word in relevant context..

4 years of age.....

Would you ever go an ask me bollox.

Fellagiving advice told her when she used the F word to give her a 4 minute time-out, and ask her to apologise after 4 minutes.

Would you ever go an ask me bollox.

OldNotWIse

TheDoc wrote: »

I assume the better way is the "new school" time-out method?

Give me a break........

I heard on Newstalk yesterday on the drive home some guy giving advice to parents on how to deal with their children who were unruly.

And example was a parent from Cork rang, whose 4 year old daughter, was refusing to wear the clothes she was provided, refused to wear clothes when she was let buy them, was becoming aggressive against children of her age who didnt conform to her ways, and was frequently using the F word in relevant context..

4 years of age.....

Would you ever go an ask me bollox.

Fellagiving advice told her when she used the F word to give her a 4 minute time-out, and ask her to apologise after 4 minutes.

Would you ever go an ask me bollox.

Now now Doc, you know how Mommy feels when you say the B word. Mommy is very disappointed in you. No more interpretive music classes for you unless you sit on the naughty step and think about what you've done. Reindeer killing themselves all over the place - there'll be none left to pull the fuuckin sleigh at Christmas

OldNotWIse

Frank Black wrote: »

So, you think the rest of the kids you grew up with weren't hit enough by their parents, and this has resulted in them being either unemployed or involved in criminal activity?

I dont think smacking alone (or not) determines good or bad parenting tbh.

Leftist

TheDoc wrote: »

I assume the better way is the "new school" time-out method?

Give me a break........

I heard on Newstalk yesterday on the drive home some guy giving advice to parents on how to deal with their children who were unruly.

And example was a parent from Cork rang, whose 4 year old daughter, was refusing to wear the clothes she was provided, refused to wear clothes when she was let buy them, was becoming aggressive against children of her age who didnt conform to her ways, and was frequently using the F word in relevant context..

4 years of age.....

Would you ever go an ask me bollox.

Fellagiving advice told her when she used the F word to give her a 4 minute time-out, and ask her to apologise after 4 minutes.

Would you ever go an ask me bollox.

Should have slapped the child. Beat the 4 year old and that'll teach her.

How can a 4 year old not realise this behaviour is not acceptable? absolute pc gone mad. Little brats should be out working.

Zope.

kunst nugget

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Now now Doc, you know how Mommy feels when you say the B word. Mommy is very disappointed in you. No more interpretive music classes for you unless you sit on the naughty step and think about what you've done. Reindeer killing themselves all over the place - there'll be none left to pull the fuuckin sleigh at Christmas

You can take the piss out of naughty steps and time outs all you want, the fact is there very effective methods of disciplining kids when they are actually done properly. They just happen to require a bit more effort and consistency than shouting at and smacking your child. The problem with it is that a lot of people make a hash of it.

OldNotWIse

kunst nugget wrote: »

You can take the piss out of naughty steps and time outs all you want, the fact is there very effective methods of disciplining kids when they are actually done properly. They just happen to require a bit more effort and consistency than shouting at and smacking your child. The problem with it is that a lot of people make a hash of it.

Wont somebody think about the reindeer?!

meoklmrk91

I was slapped as a child, beaten on a few occaisions, my father once split my lip open, I lost all respect for him that day and it took him years and I mean years to earn just some of it back. When my mother lost control she would use weapons, wooden spoon, sweeping brush whatever. I quickly learnt that if I removed myself from the situation I.e. by locking myself into the bathroom and leaving them calm down then I wouldn't get hit. Loosing control is no way to deal with a child.

People think that by not hitting a kid, then the child just isn't disciplined, the truth is there are plenty of things you can do to discipline a child, that are far more effective than slapping, they just take more time, effort and self discipline to follow through.

Here's an example, I know one parent who has zero control over their small child, he spits, kicks, hits, pinches, punches, calls his people ever name under the sun, I have been there when he has called people a ****, bollix whatever. The mother hits him and hits him hard, you can hear it, he laughs at her, he runs away laughing to try and wire her into chasing him, it's a game to him. Hoe has no boundaries, no bedtime, no routine and you literally have a child who isn't even in school yet running the house.

I know another parent who punishes their children, with grounding and time outs. The kids are mannerly, they do as they are told and their respectful. Now don't get me wrong they are no where near perfect but I have never heard them say a curse word, I have never seen them try to hit, spit, kick or anything of that manner. Of course they aren't perfect and they test the boundaries, they aren't perfect but they are really great kids who are well rounded, have their own personalities and are happy. The kid who is slapped is none of these things.

mikom

WhiteRoses wrote: »

Typical "it never did me any harm" attitudes yet time and time again we see threads about depression and anxiety. I think there is definitely a link between the two.

Yeah, it's depressing that you jumped to that conclusion.

wolfpawnat

WhiteRoses wrote: »

I'm not at all surprised at how this thread has turned out. Typical "it never did me any harm" attitudes yet time and time again we see threads about depression and anxiety. I think there is definitely a link between the two.

Can I ask how you feel they are linked? So many people here were smacked as children and do/have not suffer depression or anxiety. I personally know of more cases where verbal abuse has done far more lasting and horrific damage than a few smacks, I don't use them myself as discipline, but I rather see a mother lose the cool and smack a bum that say things that I have heard some parents say. I am an adult and their words have affected me, let alone their children.

SusieBlue

mikom wrote: »

Yeah, it's depressing that you jumped to that conclusion.

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Can I ask how you feel they are linked? So many people here were smacked as children and do/have not suffer depression or anxiety. I personally know of more cases where verbal abuse has done far more lasting and horrific damage than a few smacks, I don't use them myself as discipline, but I rather see a mother lose the cool and smack a bum that say things that I have heard some parents say. I am an adult and their words have affected me, let alone their children.

A lot of adult depression can be linked back to childhood, subconsciously or not. I obviously do not think EVERYONE who was smacked suffers from depression, I was smacked and I am not depressed.

Its not human nature to feel loving towards people who hurt us. It causes conflicting emotions, it affects their self worth, it forces them to submit to a situation because they are the physically weaker than the authoritarian.

These conflicting emotions, imo, can affect mental health and can lead to depression and anxiety.

From a psychological point of view I don't see how this isn't obvious, its the same as a spouse hitting their partner, it has the exact same consequences but because it is a child and not an adult people seem to find it acceptable.

wolfpawnat

WhiteRoses wrote: »

A lot of adult depression can be linked back to childhood, subconsciously or not. I obviously do not think EVERYONE who was smacked suffers from depression, I was smacked and I am not depressed.

Its not human nature to feel loving towards people who hurt us. It causes conflicting emotions, it affects their self worth, it forces them to submit to a situation because they are the physically weaker than the authoritarian.

These conflicting emotions, imo, can affect mental health and can lead to depression and anxiety.

From a psychological point of view I don't see how this isn't obvious, its the same as a spouse hitting their partner, it has the exact same consequences but because it is a child and not an adult people seem to find it acceptable.

I agree, most of adult issues, mistrust, depression and the like have very strong links to childhood issues, but as I said, I would see it more linked to harsher physical abuse and verbal abuse as opposed to a few smacks on the butt!

mikom

WhiteRoses wrote: »

A lot of adult depression can be linked back to childhood, subconsciously or not. I obviously do not think EVERYONE who was smacked suffers from depression, I was smacked and I am not depressed.

Its not human nature to feel loving towards people who hurt us. It causes conflicting emotions, it affects their self worth, it forces them to submit to a situation because they are the physically weaker than the authoritarian.

These conflicting emotions, imo, can affect mental health and can lead to depression and anxiety.

From a psychological point of view I don't see how this isn't obvious, its the same as a spouse hitting their partner, it has the exact same consequences but because it is a child and not an adult people seem to find it acceptable.

Kelloggs conflakes "cut out and keep" psychology tips.......... one free inside each pack.

godwin

Frank Black wrote: »

So, you think the rest of the kids you grew up with weren't hit enough by their parents, and this has resulted in them being either unemployed or involved in criminal activity?

Not hit enough? they weren't hit at all , no discipline or authority in their life , their parent did not give a ****e what they done. Yes the lack of discipline led to them dropping out of school which resulted in them being on the dole and in and out of jail.