Brumbies vs Lions, Match Thread

shuffol

Speaks volumes IMO that the pundits team is essentially the one they would've gone with pre-tour but for injuries, they've aready made their minds up on a lot of players and are using dumb logic to try justify their selections. i.e. Faletau's workrate, Heaslip operates in wider channels.

JRant

The lineout shambles today was very costly in the end. Every time we started to build momentum it was literally thrown away with poor throw after poor throw.

The tight 5 were pretty poor at all aspects today. Richie Gray is like the ryanair of locks, 'hitting a ruck somewhere near where he should be'.

Thought the loosies had good games actually. Didn't get to see much of them with ball in hand but thats because they were hitting every ruck.

Felt for Youngs and Hogg as they had absolutely nothing outside them at all. 12 & 13 were very poor but considering they just got off a plane they're not really to blame.

The bench made a difference when they came on, which is one positive to take from this loss. The front-row changes and bringing Parling on really sped up the ball for the half backs. Murray was good in parts but his decision making is still suspect. He keeps making the same mistakes over and over again, especially when ball is quick and on the front foot. Still he's come on a fair amount in the past 12 months.

Gambas

shuffol wrote: »

Speaks volumes IMO that the pundits team is essentially the one they would've gone with pre-tour but for injuries, they've aready made their minds up on a lot of players and are using dumb logic to try justify their selections. i.e. Faletau's workrate, Heaslip operates in wider channels.

Kinda like Boards, eh?

Christy42

P.Walnuts wrote: »

Ref was French...

I even read that earlier, no idea why he transformed from French to South African in my head. Thanks for the correction.

I felt Kearney was ok but no where near his best. Under the high ball he was no more than alright. There were one or two instances I thought he was going to win a high ball he had no right to with one of his trademark leaps but it just didn't happen. The problems stemmed from the front but no one from the starting 15 really stepped up with a piece of magic that could of driven the lions on.

I guess just move on and keep the moral up in camp, especially for those who will be involved in tests.

Who was captain when Best went off?

Rightwing

Sky ratings:

15 Rob Kearney

The Ireland international was the pick of the back division as he proved he is back to full fitness. He consistently looked to get the Lions on the front foot, making 12 carries. Kearney also kicked well, chased hard and was solid in defence but lacked the support of others. 7
14 Christian Wade

It was a tough introduction for the England winger after flying in from Argentina. He had a couple of half-breaks and went looking for work but was exposed for the only try. He coughed up possession too easy. 5
13 Brad Barritt

Defensively the England centre was solid but he was completely anonymous in attack. That wasn't entirely his fault as the new arrival got hardly any ball to play with, however unlikely to see him involved in the Tests. 4
12 Billy Twelvetrees

Twelvetrees will be counting the bruises after he was thumped hard and driven back several times. He wasn't helped as the ball was so slow in reaching him and the fact he made 2m from nine carries sums up his night. 4
11 Shane Williams

There was no dream cameo for the former Wales winger, who was called into the squad for just this match. He started well enough but quickly faded as the Lions backs failed to gel. 5
10 Stuart Hogg

The Scotland full-back was brutally exposed in the No 10 jersey by the experienced Brumbies. At fault for the try, Hogg also kicked badly, was slow to distribute and ran far too much ball. There is a strong argument he paid the price for the failure to pick three fly-halves. 3
9 Ben Youngs

The England No 9 started lively enough but could do little to turn the tide behind a faltering pack. He desperately tried to boss the forwards but lacked that usual spark as the Lions struggled. 6
1 Ryan Grant

The Scotland prop had been mentioned as an outsider for the Test team but based on this performance he is nowhere near. The Lions set piece was a mess until the replacements arrived while he was then pinged for a needless flare up with Scott Sio. 4
2 Rory Best

The Ireland hooker's initial omission from the squad was seen as controversial - however on this performance perhaps the Lions management were right. His lineout throwing was woeful, the scrum stuttered and he made little ground with the ball in hand. 3
3 Matt Stevens

Another player who struggled to make an impact. The Lions scrum looked better when the front row was changed while he was virtually anonymous in the loose. Was a shock inclusion in the squad and it is easy to see why. 3
4 Ian Evans

Part of a disappointing performance from the Lions pack. He struggled to build a connection with Best at the lineout and lacked the work-rate of fellow second row Riche Gray in the loose, while Geoff Parling had more of an impact of the bench. 5
5 Richie Gray

Like Evans and Best he cannot escape criticism of a dreadful lineout dispay, however he did at least disrupt the Brumbies throw and snaffle two of their balls. He was also busy in defence, making seven tackles. 6
6 Sean O'Brien

It says a lot about the Ireland flanker that despite having his worst performance on the tour he was still one of the Lions' better players. He tackled hard and showed plenty of dog at the breakdown but failed to make an impression with the ball in hand. 6
7 Justin Tipuric

Arguably the pick of the Lions side, the Wales flanker seemed to be one few players up for the fight in the first half. He was the top tackler and managed to turn over the ball well. However he is unlikely to oust Sam Warburton from the Test team. 7
8 Toby Faletau

The Wales No 8 has been involved in a battle for a Test place with Jamie Heaslip and he did his cause no harm. He made 16 carries as he looked to get the tourists over the gainline. He also put in a good shift defensively as he grew into the game. 7

.ak

Hrmmm... SOB was the best forward I felt, but that's Sky for you. Tips was immense in the first quarter but went into his shell as soon as he realized the game was slipping. Faletau had a great final quarter and did well, I'd probably put him on equal points with SOB. So aside from Tips, who'd I'd give 6, and give his point to SOB, 7, it's pretty much bang on.

First Up

.ak wrote: »

Hrmmm... SOB was the best forward I felt, but that's Sky for you. Tips was immense in the first quarter but went into his shell as soon as he realized the game was slipping. Faletau had a great final quarter and did well, I'd probably put him on equal points with SOB. So aside from Tips, who'd I'd give 6, and give his point to SOB, 7, it's pretty much bang on.

Think I'd call it bang on as it is.

.ak

Really? Thought SOB was defo the better of the two. Tips defo went quiet, was guilty of lacking the intensity he's shown in previous games.

First Up

Christy42 wrote: »

I even read that earlier, no idea why he transformed from French to South African in my head. Thanks for the correction.

I felt Kearney was ok but no where near his best. Under the high ball he was no more than alright. There were one or two instances I thought he was going to win a high ball he had no right to with one of his trademark leaps but it just didn't happen. The problems stemmed from the front but no one from the starting 15 really stepped up with a piece of magic that could of driven the lions on.

I guess just move on and keep the moral up in camp, especially for those who will be involved in tests.

Who was captain when Best went off?

Not sure but Hibbard seemed to be making some calls.

Rightwing

First Up wrote: »

Think I'd call it bang on as it is.

I've been very impressed with sky's ratings throughout the tour.

trouttrout

Rightwing wrote: »

I've been very impressed with sky's ratings throughout the tour.

Well they certainly got SOB's and Tipurics wrong today

Tipuric had two good turnovers but his workrate wasn't in anyway as good as SOB's

Also, Richie Grey getting a six is a joke

shuffol

Did Tipuric even have a turnover, from what I remember he just picked up balls that were lost forward and the commentators credited him with steals, he looked to lack physicality to me. SOB disrupted one ruck and forced the ball out for someone else to snaffle and got a player pinged for holding on. He also sent Wade clear up the touchline with a lovely pop pass. Account must be taken for the fact that most of Faletau's good work came when the new front 5 came on.

Christy42

First Up wrote: »

Not sure but Hibbard seemed to be making some calls.

He made the calls to go for the scrums near the end but the commentator said that he didn't even have to consult with his captain which would suggest he wasn't the captain but it could have been a commentator error.

I felt Tupirick didn't seem completely up for it but he was the top tackler, was ever present at break downs and made a turnover or two. Don't remember him being pinged for a penalty at any stage either.

O Brien was definitely one of the best out of the initial 15 but I think he really needed to make a couple of yards going forward to match Tupiric. Given that he has had a very consistent tour it is sad that he won't be starting the first test but I can see why. I was surprised that he was never played at 8. I always thought of the 7 jersey as a battle between Tips and Warbs and while I am sure O' Brien would jump at the jersey given the chance I felt that he had more of a shot for the 6/8 jerseys giving him a bit more license to run with the ball rather than going into every breakdown at 7.

I think he could've beaten Heaslip to the 8 jersey

Taco Corp

is this match worth watching?

HigginsJ

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

is this match worth watching?

Not particularly. It was tight and tense but mistake riddled

First Up

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

is this match worth watching?

England v New Zealand in U20's more entertaining. Good win for Wales earlier over SA.

Klunk_NZ

Rightwing wrote: »

Sky ratings:

15 Rob Kearney

The Ireland international was the pick of the back division as he proved he is back to full fitness. He consistently looked to get the Lions on the front foot, making 12 carries. Kearney also kicked well, chased hard and was solid in defence but lacked the support of others. 7
14 Christian Wade

It was a tough introduction for the England winger after flying in from Argentina. He had a couple of half-breaks and went looking for work but was exposed for the only try. He coughed up possession too easy. 5
13 Brad Barritt

Defensively the England centre was solid but he was completely anonymous in attack. That wasn't entirely his fault as the new arrival got hardly any ball to play with, however unlikely to see him involved in the Tests. 4
12 Billy Twelvetrees

Twelvetrees will be counting the bruises after he was thumped hard and driven back several times. He wasn't helped as the ball was so slow in reaching him and the fact he made 2m from nine carries sums up his night. 4
11 Shane Williams

There was no dream cameo for the former Wales winger, who was called into the squad for just this match. He started well enough but quickly faded as the Lions backs failed to gel. 5
10 Stuart Hogg

The Scotland full-back was brutally exposed in the No 10 jersey by the experienced Brumbies. At fault for the try, Hogg also kicked badly, was slow to distribute and ran far too much ball. There is a strong argument he paid the price for the failure to pick three fly-halves. 3
9 Ben Youngs

The England No 9 started lively enough but could do little to turn the tide behind a faltering pack. He desperately tried to boss the forwards but lacked that usual spark as the Lions struggled. 6
1 Ryan Grant

The Scotland prop had been mentioned as an outsider for the Test team but based on this performance he is nowhere near. The Lions set piece was a mess until the replacements arrived while he was then pinged for a needless flare up with Scott Sio. 4
2 Rory Best

The Ireland hooker's initial omission from the squad was seen as controversial - however on this performance perhaps the Lions management were right. His lineout throwing was woeful, the scrum stuttered and he made little ground with the ball in hand. 3
3 Matt Stevens

Another player who struggled to make an impact. The Lions scrum looked better when the front row was changed while he was virtually anonymous in the loose. Was a shock inclusion in the squad and it is easy to see why. 3
4 Ian Evans

Part of a disappointing performance from the Lions pack. He struggled to build a connection with Best at the lineout and lacked the work-rate of fellow second row Riche Gray in the loose, while Geoff Parling had more of an impact of the bench. 5
5 Richie Gray

Like Evans and Best he cannot escape criticism of a dreadful lineout dispay, however he did at least disrupt the Brumbies throw and snaffle two of their balls. He was also busy in defence, making seven tackles. 6
6 Sean O'Brien

It says a lot about the Ireland flanker that despite having his worst performance on the tour he was still one of the Lions' better players. He tackled hard and showed plenty of dog at the breakdown but failed to make an impression with the ball in hand. 6
7 Justin Tipuric

Arguably the pick of the Lions side, the Wales flanker seemed to be one few players up for the fight in the first half. He was the top tackler and managed to turn over the ball well. However he is unlikely to oust Sam Warburton from the Test team. 7
8 Toby Faletau

The Wales No 8 has been involved in a battle for a Test place with Jamie Heaslip and he did his cause no harm. He made 16 carries as he looked to get the tourists over the gainline. He also put in a good shift defensively as he grew into the game. 7

There's too many 6's and 7's and even 5's from a team composed of four nations that just lost to an under strength Australian provincial side.

.ak

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

There's too many 6's and 7's and even 5's from a team composed of four nations that just lost to an under strength Australian provincial side.

Good point. However, let's play devil's advocate here, I assume players can be rated on merit of individual performances. For example, I think SOB had a great game. A lot of people are banging on about him having a poor game on twitter and facebook, but in reality I think he did very well, but was made look poor in a team mostly comprised of players who were coming into this team only a few days before hand, or simply were out of form, ala Best and Gray.

I think Faletau and SOB had a good game, and both of them played the best they could around a pack that was melting and going backwards. Tipuric and Kearney were also solid.

Ardillaun

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

sydthebeat

Ardillaun wrote: »

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

JWs having surgery


and no. just no.....

Buer

Ardillaun wrote: »

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

Well, JW just had surgery and is unavailable so he's out. If any other player had the versatility and talent DA possesses, the answer would be yes. But the fact is he's a PR disaster that has been involved in spats on Twitter, accused opposition fans of racism, given the finger and verbally abused opposition fans, been in multiple fights on the field and is one of the most disliked figures in rugby. I can't think of someone that would do more damage to squad morale.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

Good point. However, let's play devil's advocate here, I assume players can be rated on merit of individual performances. For example, I think SOB had a great game. A lot of people are banging on about him having a poor game on twitter and facebook, but in reality I think he did very well, but was made look poor in a team mostly comprised of players who were coming into this team only a few days before hand, or simply were out of form, ala Best and Gray.

I think Faletau and SOB had a good game, and both of them played the best they could around a pack that was melting and going backwards. Tipuric and Kearney were also solid.

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

First Up

jm08 wrote: »

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

Which is fair comment unfortunately. You could say he was trying too hard for the team but it cost them.

sydthebeat

jm08 wrote: »

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

Two dodgy decisions.. one for not rolling when he had a player lying on his back..

Ardillaun

Buer wrote: »

If any other player had the versatility and talent DA possesses, the answer would be yes. But the fact is he's a PR disaster that has been involved in spats on Twitter, accused opposition fans of racism, given the finger and verbally abused opposition fans, been in multiple fights on the field and is one of the most disliked figures in rugby. I can't think of someone that would do more damage to squad morale.

Moment of weakness there. I've recovered now.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

A lot of the criticism of SOB is for the number of penalties he conceeded.

How many did he give up? I count 2. One was an incorrect call from the ref. That's unfounded criticism.

jm08

.ak wrote: »

How many did he give up? I count 2. One was an incorrect call from the ref. That's unfounded criticism.

Lions Official stats has him down for 3 in the Brumbies game.

(Grant 2, Stevens 1, Faletau 1, Kearney 1, Murray 1).

http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169133

thomond2006

Ardillaun wrote: »

Should JW and (gulp) Delon Armitage be out there?

I'm sure the ARU will pay for Delon's flights so that some Lions fans will 'convert'.

.ak

jm08 wrote: »

Lions Official stats has him down for 3 in the Brumbies game.

(Grant 2, Stevens 1, Faletau 1, Kearney 1, Murray 1).

http://www.lionsrugby.com/2013tour/match_centre_2013.php?section=playstatsaway&fixid=169133

Okay 3. He's a flanker, and probably the only player getting into the breakdown. It's not like he committed any stupid penalties like Grant's. Anyway one of them was a total wrong call from the ref, so I can't see them as being enough issue for the press to breath down his neck.

jm08

I guess people see what they want to see. For instance, Murray is getting a lot of criticism for attempting a break, but when you see the big hole in the defence, it wasn't a bad decision. Lions support was too slow though.