Extermination through sterilisation - the solution to "skangerism"

wesf

wesf wrote: »

Actually one night while having a few drinks with friends we were talking about this subject.
I came up with an amazing idea, here it is:
Choose a county nobody likes, lets say Roscommon, fence it off Jurassic Park style, take all the normal people and move them elsewhere while leaving the scumbags there.
Round up all the other scumbags around the country and throw them in also.
Here comes the best bit, charge people, stag do's etc, to enter the park on a hunting weekend, you get to hunt down and kill scumbags, while generating money for the country also, win win for everyone!!

You were in the Klan in another life weren't ye )) Hunting weekends LOL

touts

Only pay child benefit for the first child. You want more children? Go get a job.

Cap all welfare payments at 90% of the minumum wage. And no cash payments. All in the form of vouchers (rent voucher, food voucher, etc). No vouchers for fags/booze/tatoos. You want those things? Go get a job.

Limit alcohol purchase to 2 cans of beer/cider per day for those aged 18-21enforced by national ID card.

Introduce drunk tanks where anyone intoxicated and need of medical assistance are treated and held until an adult over the age of 30 comes to release them the following day. Think you'll avoid calling your parents by just sitting there until release. Well we'll charge you €1000 a day for your stay after the first night and deduct it from your welfare/salary if you don't pay.

Introduce a national fingerprint & DNA database. All citizens are on the database no exceptions. If you want to trash the place you better be wearing a sealed space suit doing it.

Introduce a 3 strikes and your out rule for Judge discretion on imposing the maximum sentence.

Problem solved.

FTA69

Only pay child benefit for the first child. You want more children? Go get a job.

Cap all welfare payments at 90% of the minumum wage. And no cash payments. All in the form of vouchers (rent voucher, food voucher, etc). No vouchers for fags/booze/tatoos. You want those things? Go get a job.

Where are these jobs going to come from in a context of massive unemployment?

touts

FTA69 wrote: »

Where are these jobs going to come from in a context of massive unemployment?

If we cap welfare at 90% of the minimum wage it will encourage/force people to take minimum wage jobs which will make Ireland more competitive and attract jobs (call center, assembly, etc) back into the country from the likes of China. If people don't want to take those sorts of jobs they can stay on welfare capped at 90% of the minimum wage with the associated constraints such as vouchers etc. No one will be forced. They will just be made less comfortable.

BillyMitchel

touts wrote: »

Only pay child benefit for the first child. You want more children? Go get a job.

Cap all welfare payments at 90% of the minumum wage. And no cash payments. All in the form of vouchers (rent voucher, food voucher, etc). No vouchers for fags/booze/tatoos. You want those things? Go get a job.

Problem solved.

You want someone who has paid taxes all their life and never claimed a cent, to handed a poxy butter voucher every week?

Not in the slightest.

bedrock#1

bedrock#1 wrote: »

Again reductionist arguments won't get us anywhere. There are constantly people on this forum talking about the huge numbers on social welfare yet conveniently ignore the fact that when the 'boom' times were here we had about 3% unemployment - ergo, if there are jobs people will work.

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/mystery-of-massive-rise-in-those-quitting-workforce-on-disability-29170473.html

From the article:

OVER the past few years an extraordinary development has occurred in Ireland, which has gone broadly unnoticed. Tens of thousands of people have left the labour force due to disability.

There's your answer: "Ahh sure OI'm noh fih for weeerkin."

PucaMama

PucaMama wrote: »

yes thats a great idea because its only ever lower class people who act like thugs :rolleyes:

Yeah, mostly it is

BillyMitchel

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/mystery-of-massive-rise-in-those-quitting-workforce-on-disability-29170473.html

From the article:




There's your answer: "Ahh sure OI'm noh fih for weeerkin."

A doctor has to send you on disability, so thats not just people ringing up the social saying ah here look I lost my leg and my fingers don't work but me on disability.

danniemcq

danniemcq wrote: »

or.....

just nuke Dublin and wall up Limerick.

Careful now

FTA69

touts wrote: »

If we cap welfare at 90% of the minimum wage it will encourage/force people to take minimum wage jobs which will make Ireland more competitive and attract jobs (call center, assembly, etc) back into the country from the likes of China. If people don't want to take those sorts of jobs they can stay on welfare capped at 90% of the minimum wage with the associated constraints such as vouchers etc. No one will be forced. They will just be made less comfortable.

That's the thing though, there aren't nearly enough jobs to go around. Even minimum wage ones. Tesco etc get thousands of CVs for every vacancy they advertise; pubs and restaurants etc are taking a real battering and aren't creating many low-paid jobs either. "Assembly" jobs in manufacturing is also a rapidly dwindling sector and has been for some time. In short, there aren't any jobs, not even the sh*t ones you suggest people should be taking up.

Unemployment is a real thing in Ireland, it isn't a case of feckless scroungers refusing to work.

PhlegmyMoses

touts wrote: »

Only pay child benefit for the first child. You want more children? Go get a job.

Cap all welfare payments at 90% of the minumum wage. And no cash payments. All in the form of vouchers (rent voucher, food voucher, etc). No vouchers for fags/booze/tatoos. You want those things? Go get a job.

Limit alcohol purchase to 2 cans of beer/cider per day for those aged 18-21enforced by national ID card.

Introduce drunk tanks where anyone intoxicated and need of medical assistance are treated and held until an adult over the age of 30 comes to release them the following day. Think you'll avoid calling your parents by just sitting there until release. Well we'll charge you €1000 a day for your stay after the first night and deduct it from your welfare/salary if you don't pay.

Introduce a national fingerprint & DNA database. All citizens are on the database no exceptions. If you want to trash the place you better be wearing a sealed space suit doing it.

Introduce a 3 strikes and your out rule for Judge discretion on imposing the maximum sentence.

Problem solved.

If any of this was brought in here I'd leave the country.

AlekSmart

BillyMitchel wrote: »

A doctor has to send you on disability, so thats not just people ringing up the social saying ah here look I lost my leg and my fingers don't work but me on disability.

I'm afraid Billy,the size of the increase as revealed by McWilliams implies that is EXACTLY what has occured.

The scale of the increase is mind-boggling,so either we have all been fooled by the Ben Dunne Gym phenomena or them Doctors are not Doctorin as they should !

It also appears that the DSP itself has been...economical with the statistics,with a certain amount of classification management being undertaken whereby persons on a certain DSP benefit are switched to disability with little or no interaction except for the arrival of a Free Travel Pass in the post....;)

wexie

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/david-mcwilliams/mystery-of-massive-rise-in-those-quitting-workforce-on-disability-29170473.html

From the article:




There's your answer: "Ahh sure OI'm noh fih for weeerkin."

This is not people who have been unfortunate enough to be born with a disability, but people who have developed a disabling condition. This means 55,000 people – bigger than Waterford, the country's fifth largest city.

Meanwhile, the number of people leaving the labour force citing a psychological or emotional condition has risen even more dramatically – 88,000 people are now diagnosed with an emotional or psychological condition that is bad enough that they can't work. This is a 27,000 rise from the same figure in 2006.

makes for depressing reading, I'm sure a majority of these cases are genuine, however I seriously doubt there wouldn't be a good portion of pisstakers in there.

Probably PTSD from attending too many Swedish House Maffia concerts...

Grand Moff Tarkin

old hippy wrote: »

I see. And if you ever found yourself actually in need of free legal aid; you'd just waive it aside, would you?

Free legal aid is a joke which has every scumbag and scut taking advantage of it when they are up before the court quite a large number of the legal profession have made a good living from it.

Also as a law abiding citizen of the state I have never had need or use for it myself.

AlekSmart

FTA69 wrote: »

Unemployment is a real thing in Ireland, it isn't a case of feckless scroungers refusing to work.

Unemployment is a very real thing all over the EU and the wider world,what is somewhat more unreal is the extent to which "Feckless Scroungery" has to be fully funded by the declining numbers who are attempting to support both themselves,their families AND the Feckless Scroungers as well.......it's not even Mathematics...it's Sums...and they don't add up...

PucaMama

Cienciano wrote: »

We could do a questionaire to weed them out.
Do you drink Dutch Gold
Do you own a sovereign ring?
Do you own a celtic jersey?
Do you have a celtic tattoo?
Do you have one of those knacker haircuts with the greasy brushed down fringe?
Do you say "staaarrryy bud" to greet people?
For men: When it's warm, do you walk around in public with no top on?
For women: Do you have a tattoo on your lower back?

none of these things affect anyone in AH. people can have any clothes/jewellry/haircut/tattoos they want. people on here need to grow up or **** off.

starviewadams

OP's ability to start BS threads like ths should be sterilised!

FTA69

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unemployment is a very real thing all over the EU and the wider world,what is somewhat more unreal is the extent to which "Feckless Scroungery" has to be fully funded by the declining numbers who are attempting to support both themselves,their families AND the Feckless Scroungers as well.......it's not even Mathematics...it's Sums...and they don't add up...

There's also the fact that the treasury loses more in uncollected tax/tax avoidance than it does in paying out social welfare. In the UK at least, the majority of people on benefits (in all its forms) are actually in work and are often subsisting on the minimum wage jobs that one poster is advocating so much. The books aren't balanced for other reasons aside from social welfare.

A bigger question would be what sort of society has multi-nationals paying nothing while the poorest pay increases in tax and the unemployed get hit harder and harder to the point you plunge more of them (and their kids) into poverty.

What winds me up is this horrible tendency that people have to portray anyone misfortunate enough to lose their job as a "scrounger", especially when there's no bloody jobs out there to begin with.

.jacksparrow.

Deduct their scratcher every time they commit a criminal offence.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

A bigger question would be what sort of society has multi-nationals paying nothing while the poorest pay increases in tax and the unemployed get hit harder and harder to the point you plunge more of them (and their kids) into poverty.

Do go on and explain to us these awful taxes that are levied upon our poorest.

PhlegmyMoses

AlekSmart wrote: »

Unemployment is a very real thing all over the EU and the wider world,what is somewhat more unreal is the extent to which "Feckless Scroungery" has to be fully funded by the declining numbers who are attempting to support both themselves,their families AND the Feckless Scroungers as well.......it's not even Mathematics...it's Sums...and they don't add up...

4% unemployment in 2005. It is generally accepted that 1.5% of that was transient - people who have left or lost jobs who get another one very soon. So that's 2.5% long term unemployed at that stage. What are we at now, 12-14% depending on what figures you read and the time of year? The maths that many are missing shows that the number of jobs to number of people willing to work ratio is causing the problem.

The vast majority of Irish people are not feckless scroungers and are more than willing to work. The stats back this up. My biggest worry now is that we have a generation of young people coming through who'll meet the "experience required" wall when things eventually pick up because they couldn't get a look in when everything went tits up.

For full disclosure purposes, I have only ever been on the dole once and it was for 2 months after finishing my degree. Have had full-time employment ever since then and managed to work my way up to a decent wage, so this post isn't from the perspective of somebody that has ever really experienced unemployment.

Seachmall

bedrock#1 wrote: »

So am I, as long as it is subject to the full rigour of the criminal justice system and not reliant on civil law definitions of evidence gathering and proof.

All activities that fall under the definition of Anti-Social Behaviour also fall under the jurisdiction of the criminal courts.

One man's harassment is another man's irritation.

Not really, harassment is fairly clearly defined. And this is hardly a discussion on whether or not harassment should be an offence.

Are you in favour of trying to get to the cause of the behaviour or just label and punish and move on?

I'm in favour of punishing the offenders while simultaneously trying to understand the underlying causes.

Exactly, so is it a product of the individual or a product of the environment?

Both.

The environment forms the individual but the individual is still responsible for the behaviour.

No need to be facetious, there has always been an institutional bias regarding the lower-classes which invariably translates into threads like this.

Are you saying that because individuals are a product of their environment (the lower socio-economic class) and because those individuals are more likely to engage in reprehensible behaviour that is criminalised we are in fact criminalising the lower class?

Do you visit after-hours much?

Too much.

But that wasn't what you said.

It was heavily implied throughout all my posts that I equate scumbags with those who engage in antisocial behaviour.

Edit - Just noticed that in my first post to you I explicitly defined scumbags as those who engage in antisocial behaviour.

just that it should be enforced unifomly in the full glare of the law.

Absolutely, but is isn't it?

I know this argument can be made successfully in America where there are plenty of statistics that demonstrate racial bias in the courts but I've never seen anything that demonstrates it's true here too.

PhlegmyMoses

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

4% unemployment in 2005. It is generally accepted that 1.5% of that was transient - people who have left or lost jobs who get another one very soon. So that's 2.5% long term unemployed at that stage. What are we at now, 12-14% depending on what figures you read and the time of year? The maths that many are missing shows that the number of jobs to number of people willing to work ratio is causing the problem.

The vast majority of Irish people are not feckless scroungers and are more than willing to work. The stats back this up. My biggest worry now is that we have a generation of young people coming through who'll meet the "experience required" wall when things eventually pick up because they couldn't get a look in when everything went tits up.

For full disclosure purposes, I have only ever been on the dole once and it was for 2 months after finishing my degree. Have had full-time employment ever since then and managed to work my way up to a decent wage, so this post isn't from the perspective of somebody that has ever really experienced unemployment.

You don't honestly believe that there are only 40,000 ne'er do wells in all of Ireland, do you? Have a read of my post above:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=84946898&postcount=127

Chips Lovell

Does this mean I can get a free vasectomy? Score.

FTA69

Rojomcdojo wrote: »

Do go on and explain to us these awful taxes that are levied upon our poorest.

Taxes have consistently gone up for the ordinary worker while being gratuitously avoided by multinationals. This is a common theme in the UK as well.

looking_around

touts wrote: »

Only pay child benefit for the first child. You want more children? Go get a job.

Cap all welfare payments at 90% of the minumum wage. And no cash payments. All in the form of vouchers (rent voucher, food voucher, etc). No vouchers for fags/booze/tatoos. You want those things? Go get a job.

You can't really force people that way. What if someone needs more clothes than the "given" for any reason?
What of those on carers/disability/illness? They're welfare payments too...should you be forced to "vouchers" because you're ill? Should you also be forced to getting under minimum wage when you can't work..
[/RANT]
_____

@ OP
Mother used to say that bout the people in Africa. Stop them having kids they can't feed.

I'm more for paying for the first child, half on the second, none on the third, and they start cutting payments if you have more. Unless you had more and just lost your job..then, you should have like 6 months or a year before you end up with any cuts.

Those claiming dole should have to go to a place from 9 to 5 to look for work. (They obviously can get time for interviews. If they're not there 5 days a week,..no payments. That should solve most of the welfare problems.

Those in prison should be given education. To encourage them out of a life of crime. Most of these people don't even think they're able to learn, thats a big problem, they also don't have families that support them if they choose to. It's this attitude that needs tackling.

FTA69

FTA69 wrote: »

Taxes have consistently gone up for the ordinary worker while being gratuitously avoided by multinationals. This is a common theme in the UK as well.

Go on, show me these taxes we're levying on the poorest in our society! Seems to be loads of them according to yourself, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.

Again, to say that the working poor are losing out would be something I would agree with. But we're not talking about them in this thread, we're talking about the anti-social work-shy element that remains unchallenged in Ireland today.

touts

looking_around wrote: »

You can't really force people that way. What if someone needs more clothes than the "given" for any reason?
What of those on carers/disability/illness? They're welfare payments too...should you be forced to "vouchers" because you're ill? Should you also be forced to getting under minimum wage when you can't work..
[/RANT]
_____

If all welfare was through vouchers then so many people would be using them there would be no shame in it. But the government could limit what they are spent on so we don't see drunken riots on beaches if the sun happens to be out on dole day.

FTA69

Go on, show me these taxes we're levying on the poorest in our society!

Take your pick. We have the USC, the property tax and soon we'll have a tax on water. Working people have increasingly been targeted via a series of stealth taxes and I've no doubt this process will continue.

But we're not talking about them in this thread, we're talking about the anti-social work-shy element that remains unchallenged in Ireland today.

While there is a lumpen element in Irish society (itself caused by a series of social and economic conditions) they form a very small proportion of those on social welfare today. Unemployment is the root cause behind the vast majority of problems in Ireland and there are very few jobs in the country today for people to take up. You can blame some Celtic-jersey clad caricature all you want but it won't change that reality.

jester77

Add contraception hormones to Dutch Gold and the problem would solve itself.