Extermination through sterilisation - the solution to "skangerism"

FTA69 wrote: »

The UK and France have a huge amount of unemployed people from formerly industrialised areas who are now cast adrift from the workforce and as such, society in general. The notion that people in the UK don't bang on about "chavs" etc is ridiculous. The problems with French ghettoes are well known.

In the last part of my post I was specifically highlighting the problem that we have in Dublin city centre. Of course other countries have ghettoes and this is something we need to tackle.

FTA69 wrote: »

To be honest the working class in places like the UK were completely shattered under Thatcher and large swathes of the country were left with no decent employment. This led to a rise in alienation and poverty which then brought problems of anti-social behaviour such as alcohol, drugs, social and domestic tensions etc. The council housing was sold off to the point that the remaining estates often became dumping grounds for the most vulnerable or at-risk segments of society. Which explains, to be blunt, why there are so many crackpots knocking around these areas.

My opinion may be unpopular, but we'd be better off acknowledging the fact that large groups of people have fallen through the cracks due to certain societal developments as opposed to it being a black-and-white case of working-class people being feckless rogues. A lack of jobs and social exclusion will lead to these problems, and that's what needs to be addressed.

Although it's far more fashionable to churn out hyperbolic nonsense about "pumping out kids for benefits" and call for sterilisation than acknowledge the facts.

Yes a lot of the problems that we have are a fault all of our own making but there is also an element now that certain lifestyles are a matter of choice. Regardless of black, white, right, wrong etc we do have a problem.... what are the answers.

No need for drastic measures such as sterilization. If skangers don't contribute to the upkeep of their children banish them to somewhere desolate in the midlands and make them pick stones, fork silage or shovel slurry all day. With no money for Dutch Gold and the threat of forced labour in the sticks skangers will embrace a life of celibacy. Skangers become extinct. Mission accomplished.

mike65 wrote: »

They would need to fulfil 3 of the following criteria

Failed to sit Leaving Cert exams
No history of having worked
No history of either parent having worked, assuming fit to work
Having been the subject of more than one call out by the Guards to their home
Having been banned from a public bar
Made more than one phone call or 2 texts to FM 104s Adrian Kennedy

Thats Bill Cull screwed then

Meritocracy Wins wrote: »

Some of the biggest scumbags in the area I live come from middle class and well off families. Little scrotes that think they are protected by Daddy's standing in the community. Do we lump these in with the rest?

Abso-fucking-lutely.

Enough of them where I live too.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

Let's admit that we have a problem with a segment of our society. We have a significant number of people who:

Generally speaking don't contribute anything of value
Who have never worked and who have no interest in working
A portion are continually in trouble with the law sporting long rap sheets
Who breed as much as possible to claim various benefits, lack of contraception education etc
Habitual drug users

One of the main problems with discussing 'sections of society' is that it generally fails to take account of the criminals that dwell within other 'section s of society'. Our criminal justice system is wholly focused on people from the lower segments of society even though the crimes of the powerful are far more devastating and go nearly totally unpunished.

Everyone has a choice and if you really wanted to you can take the decision to lift yourself out of the situation you find yourself in and work for something better. I know some people find themselves in a spiral of negativity and that while these people may not necessarily be bad people they still had choices to make.

Most sophisticated theories about human behaviour have come to the conclusion that simple rational choice is too reductionist. It sounds pretty nice and succinct but fails to factor in the mixture of biological, social, cultural environmental and psychological factors that make up a human being.

Clearly our judicial system doesn't work. Sentences need to be tougher and carried out to term. Prisons need to be humane but tougher. There would also I guess need to be more police with wider- not all encompassing, powers.

Doesn't work I'm afraid. Longer sentences haven't been shown empirically to make any difference to the crime rate. Prisons don't rehabilitate and if we are to talk about retribution we have to ask ourselves a number of questions regarding the legitimacy of an increasingly unequal society, where the crimes of the poor are punished and the crimes of the rich white washed and how this society can legitimately inflict punishment taking these facts into consideration.

Benefits. We have a fantastic social welfare system but it is abused. It clearly needs to be reformed as there are people caught in it who currently will never leave it.

Again reductionist arguments won't get us anywhere. There are constantly people on this forum talking about the huge numbers on social welfare yet conveniently ignore the fact that when the 'boom' times were here we had about 3% unemployment - ergo, if there are jobs people will work.

Education. I know it sounds obvious but perhaps we need to put a focus that you need to educate yourself to lift you above your circumstance. That the right thing to do by society is to contribute rather than to take from it. That you're part of something more than just 'you'.

The fact that the vast majority of our prison population have never taken state exams points to needing them to at least have the tools to lift themselves out of their situation (whether or not their situation is of their own making or a consequence of our society).

Community. I think this is something we have lost big time in Ireland. People don't for the most part, in urban areas at least, feel like they are part of a community anymore. I think it would be fantastic if people go together more, organised things such as clean ups of their area, had organisations they could be a part of. We're too focused on getting up, going to work, coming home and staying in our own little bubble.

Good idea. Something I agree with.

We have a real problem- what are the real, just, humane and proper ways to deal with it?

Sure there are but they require a more humane and equal society, which unfortunately is not something we are even coming close to considering either this thread or the fact that the concerns of business and finance come before the citizens of this and most other countries.

Insect Overlord wrote: »

Having a nice little chuckle to myself here at the complete over-reaction to the OP.[..]

This could be posted on pretty much any thread on AH, i know it's why i'm here.

Screw sterilization. Our judiciary, at the risk of sounding like a broken record, needs to stop handing out suspended sentences for violent crime. End of story.

Kintarō Hattori wrote: »

In the last part of my post I was specifically highlighting the problem that we have in Dublin city centre. Of course other countries have ghettoes and this is something we need to tackle.

Well in France the type of people you're on about live nowhere near the city centre and in London very few people live in the city centre anymore. There's only a few council flats dotted around and they make up a tiny proportion of housing there. In Dublin however, there are prominent deprived inner-city areas that are in walking distance from the main thoroughfares so you are going to get groups hanging around the place.

Yes a lot of the problems that we have are a fault all of our own making but there is also an element now that certain lifestyles are a matter of choice. Regardless of black, white, right, wrong etc we do have a problem.... what are the answers.

Look, I'm not saying that personal responsibility doesn't come into it to an extent but the fact is anti-social behaviour, drugs etc are symptoms of a wider problem in society and will be an inevitable result of poverty and exclusion. There's a difference between explaining why something happens and justifying it.

Seachmall wrote: »

I wouldn't.

I fully support the criminalisation of harassment, intimidation and vandalism.

So am I, as long as it is subject to the full rigour of the criminal justice system and not reliant on civil law definitions of evidence gathering and proof.

You say that as if my argument is based on removing behaviours I find offenesive...You say that as if I agree with sterilisation...Your argument appears too wishy washy.

True you didn't say you agreed with it, my mistake.

One man's harassment is another man's irritation.

Are you in favour of trying to get to the cause of the behaviour or just label and punish and move on?

It's more prevelant due to a serious of complex socio-economic factors.

Exactly, so is it a product of the individual or a product of the environment?

Are you suggesting the public's opinion on the matter are being skewed by some anti-lower class power? The Ministry of Truth perhaps?

No need to be facetious, there has always been an institutional bias regarding the lower-classes which invariably translates into threads like this. Do you visit after-hours much?

I haven't seen anyone who disagrees that a scumbag is someone who engages in anti-social behaviour.

But that wasn't what you said.

As is the failure of the democratic system


If you feel anti-social behaviour should not be legislated for perhaps you should take that issue up with your local representative.

Again I never said I didn't think it should be legislated for, just that it should be enforced unifomly in the full glare of the law.

120_Minutes wrote: »

Hitler had the right solution, he just picked the wrong people.

Funny, that's what George Bernard Shaw said about Stalin.

We could do a questionaire to weed them out.
Do you drink Dutch Gold
Do you own a sovereign ring?
Do you own a celtic jersey?
Do you have a celtic tattoo?
Do you have one of those knacker haircuts with the greasy brushed down fringe?
Do you say "staaarrryy bud" to greet people?
For men: When it's warm, do you walk around in public with no top on?
For women: Do you have a tattoo on your lower back?

Ush1 wrote: »

Well generally in nature it's the ones who have the ability to do the exterminating who decide who to exterminate.

So that means everyone can exterminate everyone else. Everyone has the ability so I suppose I should have asked who has the stomach to do the choosing and the deed?

mike65 wrote: »

I'm not proposing the deletion of anyone merely the lack of creation, read the last sentence of the OP again.

Lack of creation is pretty much deletion. So who do you think should be in charge of deciding who gets to procreate and who doesn't? Maybe we could hold an election because that always turns out well!