Random Wrasslin' thoughts.....

Mr.Nice Guy

Wasn't that tried in WCW quite a lot, especially in the final years? Engineered stuff backstage to 'work the boys'? Pretty sure Bischoff tried this a few times. From what I gather it only really served to piss off the talent and didn't translate well to the wider audience.

When you think about it, with social media's potential it shouldn't be too hard to engineer perceptions of hostility amongst talent. I think the wrestlers should be encouraged to use Twitter not only as a way to connect with fans, but to get in a few digs at one another. It seems like it's too well managed though and guys aren't allowed freely express themselves. Look at the times Dolph got into bother with comments, and didn't Punk say in the Cabana podcast that he was asked to delete some tweets that management didn't like?

ShagNastii

Tbh honest there is that saying of no publicity is back publicity but I think in many chases this not the case.

Controversy (and courting it) is worked on a fine line. On the one hand you have Matt Hardy/ Edge/Lita thing. That was golden controversy. I'd imagine Vince cried for joy for such a white hot angle to fall into his lap. WWE weren't looked upon badly. It was Edge and Lita that got the flack.

I think the Demott case is the opposite. It paints the actually COMPANY in a terrible light. When the WWE pump so much into anti-bullying, support for LGBT all these things being bought up about Demott are a real skid mark.

I don't think any company has seen their alleged serious mistreatment of employees spun into something positive in house or in the media.

ForeverYoung90

I had a dream last night that Wade Barrett and Daniel Bryan became a new badass heel tag team.
Random enough but their it goes! 😂

Vision of Disorder

ForeverYoung90 wrote: »

I had a dream last night that Wade Barrett and Daniel Bryan became a new badass heel tag team.
Random enough but their it goes! 😂

The NEW New Nexus?

Lord TSC

I guess this goes here. Kind of want to vent a bit.

I don't believe my interest in pro-wrestling has ever been at such a low. I power through Raw each week, usually getting a 3 hour watched in under 50 minutes. I don't watch anything else; I want to get into NXT but my general disdain at what WWE are doing on the "A" show trickles down, and I'm reluctant to get behind a show which will see people promoted into dead-end rolls or treated like jobbers.

The guys I want to like (Bryan, Ambrose, Rollins, Ziggler, Cesaro) are treated like idiots week after week, with no character development at all and plots which are painfully obvious weeks in advance. The writers and producers not only don't care, they bash their audience on a weekly basis, calling them idiots for wanting a product they'd enjoy. Any other TV show with those issues, I'd have stopped watching years ago, and it likely would have been cancelled as well. I, and I think many others, have a Stockholm Syndrome though and keep watching, and the kids give them enough money to let the show tick on. Never improving, never developing.

I know there's alternatives in Japan and so on, but WWE is Pro-wrestling to me. I was never a WCW guy, never an ECW guy. I grew up with WWE and only WWE so when that's killing my passion, then so too is my passion for wrestling as a whole dying.

It's even affecting things like the draft; I'm sure people haven't missed I've not written a thing yet for the draft, and even ignoring the time I'm investing into personal things, I just have zero motivation to engage and write about wrestling at the moment. Hopefully I'll shake that for the draft and get something written though.

I don't know. I feel that there's never been a time in wrestling where there's been such a talented, diverse roster, a group of actors I so desperately want to see something, anything, done with. But WWE treats me like an idiot for watching their product, and it gets to the stage where I seriously wonder why I even bother.

I used to visit multiple forums to read up and discuss wrestling; now, it's just this one, and even then, I tend to check the Off topic thread, or the TV thread or the likes first. The community here is probably the only reason I still watch; if I lost boards.ie tomorrow, I'd probably stop watching wrestling as well

Palo Alto

Watch NXT and pretend Raw doesn't exist. It's done wonders for my own interest.

briany

To follow on from TSC's point, there's a lot of people getting annoyed with WWE at the moment, and some are stopping watching wrestling altogether and some are trying a 3rd promotion like your ROH, or Lucha Underground. I've tried watching both their shows and there's a lot of passion going on there. That's obvious, but it can never be the same. You'll never get that big atmosphere buzz that you'd get from a WWE show and you can try for that cauldron atmosphere of the old ECW shows, but I believe that was a very special time and place - a lightning strike which you can't really replicate. Whenever I watch the indies, all I see are a bunch of generic spotfests with middling production values and a bunch of people desperately wanting to believe it's the best wrestling on the planet. It's hard to watch NXT and pretend Raw (or Smackdown) don't exist as the ultimate purpose of NXT is that the wrestlers performing there will eventually 'move up' (financially anyway, don't know about creatively) so the effect is that the top spot in NXT is a very transient one and the show is therefore not as much of a brand in it's own right.

It's been said, and shot down, time and time again that the best solution is a true second company that's willing and able to put out a show comparable to Vince's in terms of size and production. That there's not reminds us that Professional Wrestling really is a niche industry - large enough to support one big company, but not really big enough for two big companies.

Moneymaker

I feel you TSC, I really do. I haven't watched a full episode of RAW since before the Rumble.

I would urge you to give NXT a proper go though. It really is a breath of fresh air and gives me hope there is life after Vince.

I'm holding out on the general product as they have an absurd amount of talent and they just can't keep fuucking it up forever(right?).

I honestly think they have the best talent pool they've ever had. Creatively however, the product is in the toilet even moreso then 1995.

They are capable of putting together a good show. They just do it so infrequently. It's maddening when you see what they are capable of.

Vision of Disorder

I'm only watching the end of Fast Lane now (so clearly my own enthusiasm isn't at a high). Why does John Cena make so little effort to disguise his audibles? It's really amateur looking and has been something associated with him for years.

Lithium93_

I've been burned out by the main roster since TLC back in December, i only skim through Bleacher Reports Raw/or the Raw thread here for a recap the next day, same routine with PPV's. And 3 hour Raws is a lot to watch, especially with A LOT OF POINTLESS FILLER.

Then again it's so easy to be disillusioned with the main roster when NXT constantly steal the show, if it wasn't for NXT keeping the candle lit so to speak i don't think i'd be in the PW trenches here as often.

Also being disillusioned with the main roster isn't helped when the writers and Vince can't seem to keep the storylines together, continuity wise.

The sooner Vince kicks it, or leaves then maybe, just maybe it'll improve.

Also when Vince does leave/die and Triple H eventually gets the job, he'll have to clear out ALL of Vince's yes-men. Hell maybe even Hunter will bring in a creative team who care about PRO WRESTLING and not the SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT ****e.

Omackeral

Moneymaker wrote: »

I feel you TSC, I really do. I haven't watched a full episode of RAW since before the Rumble.

I would urge you to give NXT a proper go though. It really is a breath of fresh air and gives me hope there is life after Vince.

I'm holding out on the general product as they have an absurd amount of talent and they just can't keep fuucking it up forever(right?).

I honestly think they have the best talent pool they've ever had. Creatively however, the product is in the toilet even moreso then 1995.

They are capable of putting together a good show. They just do it so infrequently. It's maddening when you see what they are capable of.

Very much this. When you see Post-Mania shows with their awesome crowds, the writers have to up their game so they don't get sh*t on on live television. When WWE have their backs to the wall they can create good tv. A good example was when there was a threat to hijack Raw in Chicago following Punk's departure. They do it as a last resort usually, that's the maddening part.

leggo

Vision of Disorder wrote: »

I'm only watching the end of Fast Lane now (so clearly my own enthusiasm isn't at a high). Why does John Cena make so little effort to disguise his audibles? It's really amateur looking and has been something associated with him for years.

Just so ya know, 'calling an audible' refers more to when something is changed in the plan of the match, as opposed to just calling a spot (which wrestlers do all the time). It's actually an American Football saying that's been adapted by some people to pro-wrestling, I've heard Austin use it more than anyone. It refers to when the quarterback in American Football deviates from the planned play and therefore has to shout to let everyone know the new plan. It's not that common, especially in 2015 WWE where everything is tightly scripted and goes to plan and the scope for wrestlers deviating from the script is dramatically reduced. I'm not being pedantic trying to contradict you btw, just trying to help.

Calling a spot is something every wrestler does in their own way, it's just chatting about the match. To be fair there are plenty who scream it clearly in transition and don't get picked up on. I've watched a lot of Shawn Michaels matches lately and he does it (Triple H is the most subtle I've seen). Austin was a screamer too but hid it among his general ****-talking. It's not a big deal or particularly unforgiveable or a sign of someone being bad at their job, it's just that we've been more exposed to Cena than others so people have clocked onto how he does it. And once you notice it, you can't unsee it.

Vision of Disorder

leggo wrote: »

Just so ya know, 'calling an audible' refers more to when something is changed in the plan of the match, as opposed to just calling a spot (which wrestlers do all the time). It's actually an American Football saying that's been adapted by some people to pro-wrestling, I've heard Austin use it more than anyone. It refers to when the quarterback in American Football deviates from the planned play and therefore has to shout to let everyone know the new plan. It's not that common, especially in 2015 WWE where everything is tightly scripted and goes to plan and the scope for wrestlers deviating from the script is dramatically reduced. I'm not being pedantic trying to contradict you btw, just trying to help.

Calling a spot is something every wrestler does in their own way, it's just chatting about the match. To be fair there are plenty who scream it clearly in transition and don't get picked up on. I've watched a lot of Shawn Michaels matches lately and he does it (Triple H is the most subtle I've seen). Austin was a screamer too but hid it among his general ****-talking. It's not a big deal or particularly unforgiveable or a sign of someone being bad at their job, it's just that we've been more exposed to Cena than others so people have clocked onto how he does it. And once you notice it, you can't unsee it.

I actually know the difference but I did use the wrong term so I appreciate your helpful intentions. :-)

I still think it is poor form that Cena makes so little effort to hide his mouth when calling spots though. It kills any suspension of disbelief for me and it wouldn't be difficult for him (or anybody else) to improve.

Scavenger XIII

On that topic, does anyone think there's something funny with WWEs ring mics or something lately?

I've been noticing in-ring communications a lot lately on main roster shows. Now we all know it happens but I generally wouldn't catch anyone blatantly calling something (and I don't think I've noticed it on NXT or anything else I watch), but it's getting pretty common. Fast lane alone I recall had Seth telling someone to grab his hair, Paige calling to grab her leg (:o) and Cena having an in depth philosophical discussion with Rusev.

briany

Who's looking forward to watching Sting at WM as he sweats half his makeup off and thereby ages about 15 years throughout the course of the match?

Palo Alto

He needs to play mindgames and become Surfer Sting.

ONE LAST TIME.

Moneymaker

briany wrote: »

Who's looking forward to watching Sting at WM as he sweats half his makeup off and thereby ages about 15 years throughout the course of the match?

I love that the paint sweats off. It's part of what he is imo.

Vision of Disorder

Moneymaker wrote: »

I love that the paint sweats off. It's part of what he is imo.

Falling apart?

JrdanB

I always thought it was cool when half of Goldust's face paint would come off during the match - made him look like he'd just been through a war!

briany

Moneymaker wrote: »

I love that the paint sweats off. It's part of what he is imo.

Yeah, but I think it's really going to hurt Sting's mystique if his paint wears off and it just looks like HHH is fighting a kind of messy looking dude in the wrong side of middle age. He could have gotten away with that when he had some youth on his side, but I don't know about now.

JrdanB wrote: »

I always thought it was cool when half of Goldust's face paint would come off during the match - made him look like he'd just been through a war!

What is Goldust now, anyway? He seems to have lost most reference to his original character, if not all. He comes across now more as just plain Dustin Runnels, but Dustin Runnels in (Darth Maul styled) makeup. He's lost a lot of bizarre behaviour that made previous iterations of the character so entertaining. If anything, he's been playing straight man to Stardust, but I find Stardust just to be a tangent to the original GD character, only not as compelling.

Angron

Maybe it's the perpetual cynic in me, but the fact that they dropped the hinted at match between Bryan and Ziggler in favour of shunting them into the multi person ladder match just screams of another desperate attempt to get as much focus off Bryan (and other favourites like Ziggler and Ambrose).

CastorTroy

Has Big Show ever looked like this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00RDCID4S

gerrybbadd

CastorTroy wrote: »

Has Big Show ever looked like this
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00RDCID4S

No. I'm pretty sure they've modelled that figure on Zangief

Moneymaker

I think Show gets a raw deal from fans today.

Yes, I don't want to see him on TV anymore, especially not going over younger talent. I think if you used him as a part-time monster heel he'd still have a lot to offer.

He's been utterly ruined by atrocious booking down the years(seriously he's the easiest guy to book ever), constant flip flop turns and angles that were beyond awful(that stupid sumo match at WM21 killed him for good imo).

I really enjoyed him in WcW, he was impossibly agile. I enjoyed him around 02-03 on Smackdown(shock horror Heyman was the booker).

He's had a great career. He's good on the mic, he can work the fans(look at the NXT match with Ryback and read the live reports). But yeah, he should retire.

Omackeral

Whole heartedly disagree. For reasons set out here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94253504

His offence looks terrible. The KO punch is alright admittedly but that's newish. That headbutt where he covers an opponents head and proceeds to loaf his own pudgy hand is one of the most embarrassing moves in pro wrestling. His selling is equally as bad as he's too big to look like it's doing anything. Bumbling mess.

I wouldn't say he's had a great career really. He's groan inducing anytime you see him and I don't think I've ever been excited to see him outside of his debut. Admittedly that was poor booking. He's turned more than the big wheel at Funderland. Never been a serious contender. Just longevity. I'd put him on a par with Mark Henry. Nothing great, just there.

Moneymaker

Omackeral wrote: »

Whole heartedly disagree. For reasons set out here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=94253504

His offence looks terrible. The KO punch is alright admittedly but that's newish. That headbutt where he covers an opponents head and proceeds to loaf his own pudgy hand is one of the most embarrassing moves in pro wrestling. His selling is equally as bad as he's too big to look like it's doing anything. Bumbling mess.

I wouldn't say he's had a great career really. He's groan inducing anytime you see him and I don't think I've ever been excited to see him outside of his debut. Admittedly that was poor booking. He's turned more than the big wheel at Funderland. Never been a serious contender. Just longevity. I'd put him on a par with Mark Henry. Nothing great, just there.

I agree to a large degree, but;

Yeah he's ****e now but he's 7', 400lbs and in his 40s, broken down and wrestling for 20 years. It's pretty hard for a 7 foot 400lb man to sell offence in fairness, he's too big. Unfair to blame him on that.

It's insane he wrestles full time tbh. Sheamus and Del Rio got decent matches out of him though in fairness.

I actually think the KO punch is crap. I loved the Chokeslam he did in WcW/early WWE days but his knees are too bad for it now. It looked really impressive.

He's been a multi time world champion. I'd call that a great career.

He absolutely should not be wrestling anymore though. The last time I actually enjoyed anything he did was with Mayweather in 2008.

Lithium93_

When the day comes for The Big Show to finally call it quits/retire, move him to commentary, he's actually good at it. Better than JBL/Cole/Booker T.

Cheese Wagstaff

Lithium93_ wrote: »

When the day comes for The Big Show to finally call it quits/retire, move him to commentary, he's actually good at it. Better than JBL/Cole/Booker T.

Totally agree. That time he did guest commentary for a Rollins bout was excellent.

briany

Big Show was doing a match down at NXT and getting booed something rotten and basically being told to leave by the heavily smarky fans down there. He got on the mic and said something to the effect of 'I'm not going anywhere. I have ten more years on a guaranteed contract.' The boos turned into cheers shortly thereafter after he and Ryback did a good match. Now, if that's true about the guaranteed money, you might groan at the thought of another ten years maybe of Show, but at the same time when I think of all those wrestlers who've been stiffed in one way or another by the WWE, or just left penniless after a career dedicated to the business, I'm glad to see one guy who gamed the system.

Palo Alto

He's quite smart, he might just have said that to heel it up. Either way, good call.