Prime Time Special - Child Care in Ireland (No Downloads - Please Read Post #1)

zenno

The documentary was not for the faint of heart, crazy stuff indeed.

insomniac86

I'm not going legal with this cause as far as I'm concerned the company is finished. No one will want to send their child there. A lot of my friends have already told me without me telling them my experience of the place that they're not going to send their kid there because of the prime time feature.

tayto lover

gowley wrote: »

even where inspections were done and failed on a number of issues nothing was done. how many creches were closed down by the inspectors. none. are all the creches featured still opened today

Seems to me to be a case of the inspectors checking suitability of building, fire regulations and qualifications of staff rather than are they actually fit and competent to deal with the little tantrums, illnesses, moods etc of young children and are they mentally stable themselves.

Far too much emphasis on qualifications at times in Ireland rather than worldliness and ability to listen and sense when a child has a problem.

A mother with young children herself would do a better job than a young girl who expects children to behave like robots.

unklerosco

gowley wrote: »

even where inspections were done and failed on a number of issues nothing was done. how many creches were closed down by the inspectors. none. are all the creches featured still opened today

A previous employee of one of the chains covered in Primetime told me they had all of their branches visited by the HSE on the same day. They got 24hrs notice of the inspection so they had time to get everything in order(HSE inspections are meant to be surprise visits) and to top it off the owners of the chain took the HSE inspectors out for dinner after the inspections... These inspections where less than a year before the primtime findings... All a bit to cosy for me.

Narnia2010

I have to say that I have not slept for the last two nights after watching this. I am in a lucky position in some ways as my Mother-in-Law looks after my daughter 3 days a week and she is in a creche for the other two days. Saying that though, this report would put doubt in your mind no matter how good your creche is. We have our daughter in the creche in Drumcondra, Dublin 9 (I am not going to name it). They are one of only a few creches in Ireland that takes special needs children and has their own better than HSE targets in place for staff ratios. The facilities are excellent including petting farm, sensory garden, 3 playgrounds, horses (age 4+ you can pay for horse riding lessons), swimming pool (swimming lessons at extra cost), fields to play in etc. Each room in the creche has a separate sleeping room with either cots or beds. With the exception of high chairs, no other chairs have straps. They stop using high chairs at around 18 months. I have to make my own food to bring with my daughter which I prefer because I know she is not getting fish fingers and chips! It is €799 full-time for all this. I went to view Cocoon and Giraffe when selecting a creche and nearly ran out of the places. PM if you would like the name of Creche (be aware they have a long waiting list). Saying all of this, I still went in to meet with them this morning, what kind of a parent would I be if I did not question the people looking after my child?

I meet the Manager of the creche this morning and got a copy of the last HSE inspection report. Their last inspection was in 2011 before an extended area was open and they had made improvements in all areas. The inspection is very limited in terms of what they assess for the care of children, it is very focused on the facilities and health and safety of the facilities. There were some recommendations in relation to exposed wires near a fridge. A table placed beside an open window in the baby room, lack of ventilation in the sleeping areas and toilets etc. There was mention that 2 employees did not have their garda vetting through yet.

I spoke to the Manager about the RTE report and the issues that it raised. She said she was very upset by the report and hoped that she would never have to face anything like that in the crèche. She actually had tears in her eyes while I was talking to her about it. She said she spent the night questioning herself about the crèche and was she doing enough to ensure that nothing like this happens there.

Here are the questions that I asked and the answers provided:

How do they ensure the safety of the children, specifically the points raised in the report by RTE?
The Manager feels that the Assistant Manager and herself are around all the time and take a special interest in all of the children’s rooms and make a point of managing by walking about. They are involved in the activities centred around the children and ensure that the staff recruited meet the needs of the children. They have better than the HSE best practice in place with regards to Staff ratios and have a focus on children with special needs so therefore need to be very vigilant in the recruitment of members of the staff, the progress of the children in line with their ages/needs and the general health and safety of all at the crèche.

She also said that she feels that she is very open and honest with staff and parents. She has told staff that she is available if they ever need to talk about any issue. She is more than happy to spend time to reassure parents and take questions or suggestions.

Do all staff members currently on-site have the formal approved Garda vetting in place?
Yes however at the moment it takes 4 months for it to come back from the Gardi so staff can be working in the centre before the vetting is through. They also request the Garda vetting report from their previous employment if available to ensure that they previously met the requirements.


Do they require all staff to have formal child care training prior to being recruited?
Initially when they first opened, they did not have this requirement but they have for last number of years therefore there are 5 members of staff that are not formally trained however they have been working there for 9-10 years now with the experience they have gained.
They have a requirement for the formal training to include Special Needs Training as they are an integrated crèche.
The HSE regulations state that 50% of the staff have formal childcare training however they over achieve on this target and 100% of all new staff have to have formal childcare training.


What the procedure for breaks for the staff?
Staff members take breaks in rotation to ensure that there is someone with the children at all times. This includes sleep times. Usually lunch breaks are taken while children are asleep however this is rotated as well to ensure that 1 member of staff stays in the sleep room at all times to help children get to sleep or to watch over them while sleeping


I also asked who officially owns and runs the crèche but I will leave the answer blank in this post as I do not want to mention them by name. I have to say the Manager really put my mind at ease. The inspection report is next to useless with regards to the protection of children with regards to staff – it is heavily focussed on the facilities.

I have to say if my child was in one of the creches or in any creche were there evidence of was mental, emotional or physical abuse, I would report to Gardi and sue for civil damages.

Question your creche at all times, make sure you pop in unannounced, take the daily log home at weekends and go through it. If you know other parents with children in the same room in the creche, compare the daily log to see if the activities are the same on the same days, check for changes in sleep times (no child sleeps at the exact same time everyday!). Question, question, questions, their policies, their management, turnover, recruitment etc. I would avoid chains but that is just my personal opinion.

hayser

No as fas as I can remember there was no mention of Cherrywood. I hope your son is ok now.

insomniac86 wrote: »

I couldn't bear to watch this but I just want to know was there any mention of the Cherrywood branch of Giraffe, we sent our child there and one day he came home with bruises we sent him to the doctor unaware of the bruises at the time and when he saw them he told us to go to tallaght hospital immediately or he'd have to call the Gardai. When we brought him there we were treated like the accused. And I can say with 100% honesty on everything I hold sacred none of us were ever abusive to that child to that extent. We were kept in the hospital for 2 nights which was obviously distressing for the child and social services were called in to investigate and we had a case with them for 2 years over this incident we knew nobody in the family would have harmed him like that to give him bruises he's a lovely child. But when we said to the social workers the only other people that have been in contact with the child were the Giraffe staff they said they'd look into it but never did basically dismissing our claim. I'm so angry over this as I had bad vibes sending the child there cause he got very distressed being there (we took him out after 2 weeks). But what I really want to know is were Cherrywood indicted in this programme too? Thank you.

mathie

gowley wrote: »

even where inspections were done and failed on a number of issues nothing was done. how many creches were closed down by the inspectors. none. are all the creches featured still opened today

I have a HSE inspection report for Station Rd Links, Portmarnock.

In it they detail that the ratios are not adhered too.
And they still mark it as Compliant.

Mind boggling...

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Skid X wrote: »

For the record, broadsheet.ie is not owned by Distilled Media and has no connection with boards.ie.

ah, my mistake. i was nearly sure it was. was wondering why they had both thejournal and broadsheet

Skid X

More on Primetime tonight ...

RTÉ Prime Time ‏@RTE_PrimeTime 25s
Tonight at 21:35 - further revelations about a creche featured in Tuesday's A Breach Of Trust. @FitzgeraldFrncs joins us in studio. #rtept

Lisha

Well lets say what the minister has to say
I dunno if giraffe belarmine can recover after that incident 3yrs ago
It also high lights ineffectiveness of HSE checks
Checks need to be done over days and concentrate on adult/child relationships not cobwebs as the lady said earlier

Skid X

Frances Fitzgerald keeps agreeing the system is wrong, but she has been the Minister in charge of Childcare for over two years.

Roger_007

Question:- If all these qualifications are needed to look after children, why are parents who do not have these qualifications allowed to keep their own children? Am I missing something here?

Lisha

Skid X wrote: »

Frances Fitzgerald keeps agreeing the system is wrong, but she has been the Minister in charge of Childcare for over two years.

Cold hard fact is that good quality child care for under 5s is expensive to provide.
For it be be good quality and affordable to psrents huge financial input is required from the state. And the state is just slightly short of cash at the moment

Neeson

Roger_007 wrote: »

Question:- If all these qualifications are needed to look after children, why are parents who do not have these qualifications allowed to keep their own children? Am I missing something here?

This is true.

Lisha

Roger_007 wrote: »

Question:- If all these qualifications are needed to look after children, why are parents who do not have these qualifications allowed to keep their own children? Am I missing something here?

Taking care of kids as a business has lost it's way a bit I think. In a factory you have raw materials, a process, procedures to be adhered to proved by recording of control parameters , a finished product, fp is proved ok by qa/qc checks
In a crèche the child is both the raw material and finished product/output.
The only way business can prove the process good is by the recording of parameters most of which have nothing really to do with child well being . Like heat temps, cleanliness, food intake/output , and so on.

All a child needs is to be treated with care and respect in a healthy environment. Once respect is there then other issues like food and all the other measurable things just fall into place.

A crèche is run for profit very few parents actively profit from having kids. Parents don't need qualifications to love their kids . Child care workers need qualifications and paperwork to somehow prove that they care about the kids in their care

lovemytea

You don't need qualifications to make yourself or a child a meal, but you'd expect a paid professional, like a chef to be qualified to make you a meal. Same concept. if you are paying someone to look after your children, they should have the necessary qualifications and training to do so.

or am I totally missing something here!

evilivor

Roger_007 wrote: »

Question:- If all these qualifications are needed to look after children, why are parents who do not have these qualifications allowed to keep their own children? Am I missing something here?

There's a difference between cooking dinner in your house and running a restaurant where you charge people for your services and they can have a reasonable expectation that they won't get bad service or, at worst, food poisoning.

Roger_007

lovemytea wrote: »

You don't need qualifications to make yourself or a child a meal, but you'd expect a paid professional, like a chef to be qualified to make you a meal. Same concept. if you are paying someone to look after your children, they should have the necessary qualifications and training to do so.

or am I totally missing something here!

The thing that you are missing is that a professional chef should be able to cook better than you can. If you apply the analogy to minding children then the 'professional' minder should be able to mind your child better than you can. The golden rule should be that you should only entrust the care of your child to someone that you know and trust. Qualifications have nothing to do with it.
I am amazed that any parents are willing to hand over the care of their very young children to total strangers.

brian_t

Roger_007 wrote: »

The golden rule should be that you should only entrust the care of your child to someone that you know and trust..

It is an unfortunate fact that most abused children are abused by someone they know and trust.

kvicka

to me every child care worker should undergo extensiv training...not a silly 1 year Fetac Level 5 course! Ireland needs to look at other European countries!!! Way behind

lovemytea

Respect your opinion, but I disagree, qualifications and training have everything to do with it when you are paying for a service. Parents don't put their children somewhere they feel their kids will be mistreated, so when enrolling them in a creche, they clearly are leaving them with someone they trust and are capable of helping their kids reach their potential, meet other kids, socialise...
If every parent could stay at home, or leave their kids with family or friends then I'm sure they would. The reality is many can't, that's why creches are now a business.
I admit the chef comparison wasn't thought out

robclay26

Bring in psychology testing for anybody that intends to take up a profession in CHILDCARE. Training won't fix it!!!
If somebody is a bad bit€h, she always will be even after all the training in the world. psychology testing, would rule her out from ever minding our kids.

I know a lot of families can't afford it with financial pressure etc, but many can and I think and my wife agree that the 6 months maternity leave is too short. Should be up to 3 years of age. Children need one of their parents to care for them. The government should give us this option to have paid maternity leave till the kid is 3. Ukraine does this

gowley

thats the problem. creches are a business. like every business they need to make profit. to make profit you cut costs. some creches are no more than a franchise. multiple sites, bottom line is profit not kids

Roger_007

lovemytea wrote: »

Respect your opinion, but I disagree, qualifications and training have everything to do with it when you are paying for a service. Parents don't put their children somewhere they feel their kids will be mistreated, so when enrolling them in a creche, they clearly are leaving them with someone they trust and are capable of helping their kids reach their potential, meet other kids, socialise...
If every parent could stay at home, or leave their kids with family or friends then I'm sure they would. The reality is many can't, that's why creches are now a business.
I admit the chef comparison wasn't thought out

All the qualifications in the world will not make anyone good at looking after children. It's not something you can teach. You are either good at it or you are not. If you can't sing, no amount of tuition will make you a singer.

lovemytea

I agree totally with that, and I'd hope that anyone who would go through extensive training in how to deal with a child and care for them would do it out of a love of children and their job, same as teaching. If you don't enjoy it, or don't have the patience for it, then you shouldn't choose that career. Most people I know choose to do childcare, because they genuinely love kids. Some don't know the first thing about minding kids until they do a course in it, not everyone is a parent.
..doesn't stop those bad singers releasing songs though!

Roger_007

lovemytea wrote: »

..doesn't stop those bad singers releasing songs though!

Jedward:D

LEEGA

PM ME

dessie

anybody know where i can watch this online?

DM addict

it's not available online due to the parents' requests. You can watch the analysis on the RTE player.

Neeson

dessie wrote: »

anybody know where i can watch this online?

There are links online. It might be on YouTube. But it's available as torrents.