Prime Time Special - Child Care in Ireland (No Downloads - Please Read Post #1)

purplecow1977

gowley wrote: »

worrying that there were examples of abuse and cruelty in all but one of the creches filmed. this would suggest that if they filmed in a much wider scale they would also find examples of more abuse

I agree. It was only a small case sample. What I mean though is that there are probably GOOD workers in those creches also. A few 'bad eggs' spoiling things.

tayto lover

purplecow1977 wrote: »

Not ALL of the workers were 'horrendous' though - just the ones we saw.

Unfair to tarnish them all with the same brush.

I didn't hear any of the others telling them to lay-off though. Cowards.

dark crystal

MrsD007 wrote: »

Just spotted this on the Examiner website tonight :eek:





http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/parents-defend-quality-of-child-care-at-malahide-creche-595926.html

I can't get my head around any parent sending their children back to that creche. I don't deny the Creches in question suspended and dismissed these particular employees, but the other staff witnessed these incidents and in my opinion, were complicit in the abuse of these defenceless babies. I never once saw any other member of staff either confront these employees over their behaviour, nor help or comfort the distressed children.

Why would someone defend a childcare facility where the staff turned a blind eye to the mistreatment of children and where no manager was on hand to supervise these workers?

Those children didn't have a voice, but the other staff did. If my child's creche systematically lied about my child's activities that day, employed unchecked and abusive staff and failed in it's care of duty towards my child, why on earth would I ever entrust them to take care of my child again? The mind boggles.

gowley

its all off the record. no names mentioned although to be fair i did also hear parents on the radio today being interviewed on the radio saying that it was just one bad egg. hard for me to fathom when everyone else there turned a blind eye.

Lady Chatterton

The thing that worries be most about last night's programme is how children with special needs would have been treated.

Many children with special needs are non-verbal or have speech delay so they wouldn't even be able to communicate issues to their parents The only way they could indicate there was something wrong would be through behaviour but that could incorrectly be attributed to the child being bold as opposed to a problem with the staff.

purplecow1977

gowley wrote: »

its all off the record. no names mentioned although to be fair i did also hear parents on the radio today being interviewed on the radio saying that it was just one bad egg. hard for me to fathom when everyone else there turned a blind eye.

I know.
Very hard.
Very sad affair.

gowley

MrsD007 wrote: »

The thing that worries be most about last night's programme is how children with special needs would have been treated.

Many children with special needs are non-verbal or have speech delay so they wouldn't even be able to communicate the issues to their parents The only way they could indicate there was something wrong would be through behaviour but that could incorrectly be attributed to the child being bold as opposed to a problem with the staff.

i could be wrong but most of the kids in these were very young and possibly too young to communicate to their parents the issues they were having. so fully agree with your point but would add that kids too young would do the exact same. the hse also has a lot to answer for in the way they check these places

tayto lover

MrsD007 wrote: »

The thing that worries be most about last night's programme is how children with special needs would have been treated.

Many children with special needs are non-verbal or have speech delay so they wouldn't even be able to communicate issues to their parents The only way they could indicate there was something wrong would be through behaviour but that could incorrectly be attributed to the child being bold as opposed to a problem with the staff.

I'd say that if people were shown the faces of the children and the pain in those little faces there would have been real uproar today.

Last night I was shocked and disgusted, today I am worse, very angry.

Lady Chatterton

gowley wrote: »

i could be wrong but most of the kids in these were very young and possibly too young to communicate to their parents the issues they were having. so fully agree with your point but would add that kids too young would do the exact same. the hse also has a lot to answer for in the way they check these places

I agree with you but I was just thinking about young children with Down Syndrome or Autism too, many of whom are non-verbal and tend to have very high anxiety levels at the best of times, being thrown around or being shouted at could do serious damage to them.

neto

I couldn't help myself not to share this:

gowley

most of these places are being run as a business and need to make a profit. some have multiple branches. really just franchises. it would seem that they are run to make a profit as the number one priority. childrens welfare are secondary to profit. if it was me i would not go near any of these companies who have multiple sites. imo a small one branch independent owner operated creche would be the best bet. the figures some of these places are getting from the government are massive and they have a duty to inspect them properly when they are paying them

tayto lover

gowley wrote: »

most of these places are being run as a business and need to make a profit. some have multiple branches. really just franchises. it would seem that they are run to make a profit as the number one priority. childrens welfare are secondary to profit. if it was me i would not go near any of these companies who have multiple sites. imo a small one branch independent owner operated creche would be the best bet. the figures some of these places are getting from the government are massive and they have a duty to inspect them properly when they are paying them

There are no inspectors in many counties. My own, Louth, with Dundalk and Drogheda the two biggest towns in the country has NONE.

It's shameful.

SuperInfinity

neto wrote: »

I couldn't help myself not to share this:

If you can't help yourself, at least use a cutout of the Giraffe logo and not an actual giraffe who is guiltless in all of this?

gowley

tayto lover wrote: »

There are no inspectors in many counties. My own, Louth, with Dundalk and Drogheda the two biggest towns in the country has NONE.

It's shameful.

even where inspections were done and failed on a number of issues nothing was done. how many creches were closed down by the inspectors. none. are all the creches featured still opened today

wolfpawnat

People keep saying about the phones not being too bad, and in the grand scheme of things, no they are not, but damn it when I was working, if you were caught with a phone in your hand without it being your break you were reprimanded. Done again, you got an official warning. That was only as a waitress/bar maid! The most horrific thing that could happen is a soup going cold for two seconds, not a child climbing up and falling (all children are prone to curiosity and bad balance) and perhaps causing injury.

I agree with others, not all the girls in these places were bad, but as the famous quote states "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." maybe supplement men with women here.

I cannot see how a parent could justify defending those particular creches today. The children involved were all below speaking age. Well at least cognitive speaking, people don't know what went on, their children could not have told them! I hope part of it is a sense of denial, that they are telling themselves that Amy and James couldn't have been treated like that, they are fine, rather than deal with the horrific realisiation that perhaps they were.

I would not assume all creches are horrendous because of a few, to suggest that is blatant ignorance, there is good and bad everywhere, in every industry, nurses, doctors, vets, shop keepers, bus drivers, taxi drivers, etc. What I cannot comprehend is why people who are not good with children would ever decide in a career as their "carer". It's like someone who despises animals becoming a vet nurse. I am baffled by it. The childcare industry is horrifically over worked and under paid, so why do it if your heart is not in it???

Neeson

Why are ye talking about the fitzpatricks in this thread?

Neeson

MrsD007 wrote: »

Why on earth is Audrey talking to the papers? Surely she should be immersed in grief.

It's all coming out now. I can't give any details because it is considered speculation online at this stage.

wolfpawnat

Neeson wrote: »

Why are ye talking about the fitzpatricks in this thread?

Parents defending the creche. Amy's mother defending the man who apparently killed her son. People cannot see how a parent could do such a thing.

gowley

Neeson wrote: »

Why are ye talking about the fitzpatricks in this thread?

we are not now. it came up in the discussion for one are two posts. you are bringing it up again for some reason

Gee_G

wolfpawnat wrote: »

People keep saying about the phones not being too bad, and in the grand scheme of things, no they are not, but damn it when I was working, if you were caught with a phone in your hand without it being your break you were reprimanded. Done again, you got an official warning. That was only as a waitress/bar maid! The most horrific thing that could happen is a soup going cold for two seconds, not a child climbing up and falling (all children are prone to curiosity and bad balance) and perhaps causing injury.

I agree with others, not all the girls in these places were bad, but as the famous quote states "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." maybe supplement men with women here.

I cannot see how a parent could justify defending those particular creches today. The children involved were all below speaking age. Well at least cognitive speaking, people don't know what went on, their children could not have told them! I hope part of it is a sense of denial, that they are telling themselves that Amy and James couldn't have been treated like that, they are fine, rather than deal with the horrific realisiation that perhaps they were.

I would not assume all creches are horrendous because of a few, to suggest that is blatant ignorance, there is good and bad everywhere, in every industry, nurses, doctors, vets, shop keepers, bus drivers, taxi drivers, etc. What I cannot comprehend is why people who are not good with children would ever decide in a career as their "carer". It's like someone who despises animals becoming a vet nurse. I am baffled by it. The childcare industry is horrifically over worked and under paid, so why do it if your heart is not in it???

There is a lot of people who have a genuine love for children and working with them, the majority of childcare workers do, but, since the downturn in the economy I have noticed, even among some of my friends(who would have never EVER had any desire to work with children) that people were going doing their fetac courses(nothing wrong with fetac before anybody jumps in) in childcare and also the courses for becoming a home help/carer,just because there was lots of jobs in those areas! And this is where I think a lot of the problem lies, people doing it because "a job is a job nowadays"andthey have no interest in it,never mind the fact that a few of these people I speak of,haven't got a "caring" bone in their body.

gowley

Neeson wrote: »

It's all coming out now. I can't give any details because it is considered speculation online at this stage.

start your own thread on it then

wolfpawnat

Gee_G wrote: »

There is a lot of people who have a genuine love for children and working with them, the majority of childcare workers do, but, since the downturn in the economy I have noticed, even among some of my friends(who would have never EVER had any desire to work with children) that people were going doing their fetac courses(nothing wrong with fetac before anybody jumps in) in childcare and also the courses for becoming a home help/carer,just because there was lots of jobs in those areas! And this is where I think a lot of the problem lies, people doing it because "a job is a job nowadays"andthey have no interest in it,never mind the fact that a few of these people I speak of,haven't got a "caring" bone in their body.

I understand, but if you hold children in the same contempt as that pathetic excuse for a human being that was on TV last night (the Links one) I could not see how you could even try to work there. Perhaps I am trying to put logic to an illogical person.

gowley

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I understand, but if you hold children in the same contempt as that pathetic excuse for a human being that was on TV last night (the Links one) I could not see how you could even try to work there. Perhaps I am trying to put logic to an illogical person.

i think ye are both on the same page wolf. dont think they were defending anything just trying to say that there are people working in creches cause its the only job they can get. not ideal but i can see the logic

Gee_G

wolfpawnat wrote: »

I understand, but if you hold children in the same contempt as that pathetic excuse for a human being that was on TV last night (the Links one) I could not see how you could even try to work there. Perhaps I am trying to put logic to an illogical person.

From what I gather from the program, they think that they are doing a dam good job, unless they are having a **** day! (That was the conversation they were having at their tea break)
I'd say as far as their concerned, those poor little defenseless babies are brats! Bold for not sitting, bold for not lying down etc.
That would be my thinking behind it!

wolfpawnat

Gee_G wrote: »

From what I gather from the program, they think that they are doing a dam good job, unless they are having a **** day! (That was the conversation they were having at their tea break)
I'd say as far as their concerned, those poor little defenseless babies are brats! Bold for not sitting, bold for not lying down etc.
That would be my thinking behind it!

Deluded to say the least. That tea room thing was hilarious, either she is having a bad day everyday the camera was there or I would really hate to see her bad days!!!!

I mean we all have bad days, and as a mum, yes I have wanted to just freak out, scream, cry, shout, even throw him out the window (no not really, but you get my meaning) but I get exasperated and want to break down, not go mental like that harpy.

What was it she said? That they were bullies. Can a 18 month old bully an adult? Sure they can frustrate you, but not bully you. Screaming at kids to go to sleep, no adult could do that under those conditions, I would love to see her try. There has to be a way to get justice for those parents and children. What she did is surely illegal.

Lady Chatterton

Neeson wrote: »

Why are ye talking about the fitzpatricks in this thread?

I posted in this thread in error, I meant to post on the Vincent Browne thread. I've deleted my post from this thread.

Gee_G

wolfpawnat wrote: »

Deluded to say the least. That tea room thing was hilarious, either she is having a bad day everyday the camera was there or I would really hate to see her bad days!!!!

I mean we all have bad days, and as a mum, yes I have wanted to just freak out, scream, cry, shout, even throw him out the window (no not really, but you get my meaning) but I get exasperated and want to break down, not go mental like that harpy.

What was it she said? That they were bullies. Can a 18 month old bully an adult? Sure they can frustrate you, but not bully you. Screaming at kids to go to sleep, no adult could do that under those conditions, I would love to see her try. There has to be a way to get justice for those parents and children. What she did is surely illegal.

And the fact that she openly admitted to a girl there for work experience that when she's having a bad day she just spends the whole day shouting at them!

And I also loved at the start of the Program how they said they did not find any cases of violent/sexual abuse. how can they fling kids onto mats on the floor and bang them into their chairs and this still not be considering violent??

The whole thing is just outrageous. I still feel sick after watching it. I actually thing I would do time if anybody attempted to treat my baby like that!

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Mr E wrote: »

Thread cleaned up and restored.

No asking for links, posting links, posting torrents, posting google search terms or filenames. RTE have restricted availability of this episode by agreement with the parents of the children featured in the show. By posting links or asking for links, you open this site up for legal ramifications with RTE's legal team.

Thanks for your understanding.

Mr E wrote: »

I was trying to facilitate people who hadn't seen the program, but when there is a danger of possible legal action, we err on the side of caution.

So broadsheet.ie, which is owned by the same company as boards.ie, posts a blog post written by a Distilled Media staffer with a link to a torrent to download the show.

Yet boards moderators, most of who are volunteers and don't work for Distilled, don't allow anybody to even post terms of a Google search query to find the show. I think you're erring wayyyy too far on the side of caution there.

Skid X

georgiecasey wrote: »

So broadsheet.ie, which is owned by the same company as boards.ie, posts a blog post written by a Distilled Media staffer with a link to a torrent to download the show.

Yet boards moderators, most of who are volunteers and don't work for Distilled, don't allow anybody to even post terms of a Google search query to find the show. I think you're erring wayyyy too far on the side of caution there.

For the record, broadsheet.ie is not owned by Distilled Media and has no connection with boards.ie.

insomniac86

I couldn't bear to watch this but I just want to know was there any mention of the Cherrywood branch of Giraffe, we sent our child there and one day he came home with bruises we sent him to the doctor unaware of the bruises at the time and when he saw them he told us to go to tallaght hospital immediately or he'd have to call the Gardai. When we brought him there we were treated like the accused. And I can say with 100% honesty on everything I hold sacred none of us were ever abusive to that child to that extent. We were kept in the hospital for 2 nights which was obviously distressing for the child and social services were called in to investigate and we had a case with them for 2 years over this incident we knew nobody in the family would have harmed him like that to give him bruises he's a lovely child. But when we said to the social workers the only other people that have been in contact with the child were the Giraffe staff they said they'd look into it but never did basically dismissing our claim. I'm so angry over this as I had bad vibes sending the child there cause he got very distressed being there (we took him out after 2 weeks). But what I really want to know is were Cherrywood indicted in this programme too? Thank you.