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The Dylan Hartley thread [MOD WARNING POST #1]

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    #122
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Ashton was another part of that group before moving to Saracens.


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    #123
    ShatterProof
    Registered Users Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭ShatterProof


    If Hartley was any good he'd be an all black


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    #124
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    First Up wrote: »
    He was never far from the trouble when some English players were mis-behaving at the RWC. Pretty well publicised.

    He was one of several named who were playing drinking games and it's only really the Tindell incident that caused such outrage. The Irish lads were drinking in Queenstown a week or so prior to the World Cup so there but for the grace of God (or senior players like BOD who probably reigned it in while their senior players added fuel to it).
    But the bigger problem would be getting on with the same players as team-mates that he spent so much time being a prick to during the year. Normal competition is fine but Hartley makes a point of being provocative and obnoxious.

    Yeah because the Leinster lads will be shunning POC on the tour after what he did to Kearney. :rolleyes: Things happen on a rugby pitch and some players style is to go out of their ways to rile the opposition (Quinlan, Cullen, POM, Jennings etc) but these are put aside when you get off the pitch and especially when you've to play with them at international level, let alone the Lions.


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    #125
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,609 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    He didn't get 11 weeks because he was dylan hartley, he got 11 weeks because HE committed an offence which was seen as a mid range offence, an offence which should have actually carried a twelve weeks ban.

    Yeah, but it seems all first time offenders these days get their ban halved for looking pretty at the hearing. That was never going to happen in Hartley's case. As mentioned he, or anyone in his position, was out of the Lions tour anyway.
    Foxtrol wrote: »
    He was one of several named who were playing drinking games and it's only really the Tindell incident that caused such outrage. The Irish lads were drinking in Queenstown a week or so prior to the World Cup so there but for the grace of God (or senior players like BOD who probably reigned it in while their senior players added fuel to it).



    Yeah because the Leinster lads will be shunning POC on the tour after what he did to Kearney. :rolleyes: Things happen on a rugby pitch and some players style is to go out of their ways to rile the opposition (Quinlan, Cullen, POM, Jennings etc) but these are put aside when you get off the pitch and especially when you've to play with them at international level, let alone the Lions.

    I imagine it wasn't so much the Irish being reigned in as it was the Irish press being out drinking with them and generally not giving a **** what the players got up to in their free time.


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    #126
    locum-motion
    Registered Users Posts: 5,143 ✭✭✭locum-motion


    Small thing, lads, and I apologise for coming across as a grammar nazi, but this is one that's getting far too common and it gets on my tits.

    The phrase is "rein in". A "rein" is a leather strap used to control a horse.
    A "reign" is the period of time for which a monarch rules.


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    #127
    Foxtrol
    Registered Users Posts: 11,040 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    locum-motion wrote: »
    Small thing, lads, and I apologise for coming across as a grammar nazi, but this is one that's getting far too common and it gets on my tits.

    The phrase is "rein in". A "rein" is a leather strap used to control a horse.
    A "reign" is the period of time for which a monarch rules.

    Apology accepted.


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    #128
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    He was one of several named who were playing drinking games and it's only really the Tindell incident that caused such outrage. The Irish lads were drinking in Queenstown a week or so prior to the World Cup so there but for the grace of God (or senior players like BOD who probably reigned it in while their senior players added fuel to it).



    Yeah because the Leinster lads will be shunning POC on the tour after what he did to Kearney. :rolleyes: Things happen on a rugby pitch and some players style is to go out of their ways to rile the opposition (Quinlan, Cullen, POM, Jennings etc) but these are put aside when you get off the pitch and especially when you've to play with them at international level, let alone the Lions.
    s
    There was also the hotel waitress. I think Hartley is in a different category in terms of his style but that is just my opinion.


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    #129
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Foxtrol wrote: »
    He was one of several named who were playing drinking games and it's only really the Tindell incident that caused such outrage. The Irish lads were drinking in Queenstown a week or so prior to the World Cup so there but for the grace of God (or senior players like BOD who probably reigned it in while their senior players added fuel to it)
    The Irish squad know know how to behave when out. You have to be able to go out and let the hair down when in a tour situation. England's players took it too far in NZ and their management couldn't cope.


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    #130
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    JustinDee wrote: »
    The Irish squad know know how to behave when out. You have to be able to go out and let the hair down when in a tour situation. England's players took it too far in NZ and their management couldn't cope.

    Either that, or it's the fact that Britain has a much more 'tabloid' media culture and the papers there were only delighted to get their hands on pictures of the England team boozing it up, whereas here, no-one would care.

    I don't think the England team are any better or worse than the Irish guys, based on my own experience of meeting players letting their hair down.


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    #131
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    totallegend wrote: »
    Either that, or it's the fact that Britain has a much more 'tabloid' media culture and the papers there were only delighted to get their hands on pictures of the England team boozing it up, whereas here, no-one would care.

    I don't think the England team are any better or worse than the Irish guys, based on my own experience of meeting players letting their hair down.
    Big difference in squad environments, that's all. Not so much now under Stuart Lancaster's management. Thats in my experience at least. Their media manager really struggled too (he's now moved on).
    Some over-excited poster here was moaning at the time that the players were for a second time (*gasp*) in the build-up week. They simply went to a restaurant. Being cooked up in a hotel resort is not condusive to a good squad mindset.

    By the way, tabloids (red tops and Daily Mail) account for just around 65% of national newspaper sales in Ireland. An abundance of tabloid culture here.

    My tuppence worth anyway.


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    #132
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    totallegend wrote: »

    I don't think the England team are any better or worse than the Irish guys, based on my own experience of meeting players letting their hair down.

    Better now under Lancaster but Martin Johnson managed in the same way as he captained - "we are the best", "get out of our way" and "know your place".

    That showed itself on and off the pitch and Hartley always seemed to embrace it with more enthusiasm than most.

    When the Irish boys let their hair down in NZ, they not only brought the media with them but also charmed everyone else in the place. England got involved in dwarf throwing and humiliating waitresses. 90% of the behaviour of the two squads was probably the same. It was the other 10% that did for them,


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    #133
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,786 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    To be honest I started this thread as a bit of tongue in cheek banter at Hartley but obviously some are taking it a bit further than I thought.

    My own 2 cents is that he will never get the benefit of the doubt because of his chequered past. For instance - if no one here watched the game beforehand except me and I posted that a player got sent off in the game for using foul/abusive language to the ref then I bet at least 80-90% of posters would guess it was Hartley.

    Same as the HEC final....if I told you all that one player would score a try but make a dick out of himself when doing it, most posters would guess Armitage.

    It's your job as a full time professional rugby player to curb your instincts to an extent and if you can't do that then you will be punished. My wife works with a young fellow who swears like a docker...last month he was given a warning from management about his colourful language....3 boardroom meetings later and he hasn't uttered a profanity since. If your behaviour is a threat to your job then you need to change.


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    #134
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    JustinDee wrote: »
    Big difference in squad environments, that's all. Not so much now under Stuart Lancaster's management. Thats in my experience at least. Their media manager really struggled too (he's now moved on).
    Some over-excited poster here was moaning at the time that the players were for a second time (*gasp*) in the build-up week. They simply went to a restaurant. Being cooked up in a hotel resort is not condusive to a good squad mindset.

    I'm not saying the Irish lads overdid it in New Zealand (or anywhere) and I think Ireland learned the hard way the risks involved in cosseting your players away and letting cabin fever set in (france 2007). Players need to blow off steam, we all accept that.

    I'm just saying that the English players' activities were blown out of proportion and were no worse than what I've seen with my own eyes the Irish team doing; if Mike Tindall wasn't married to a member of the Royal Family, none of it would have made the news.
    JustinDee wrote: »
    By the way, tabloids (red tops and Daily Mail) account for just around 65% of national newspaper sales in Ireland. An abundance of tabloid culture here.

    That's sales of tabloid newspapers; we don't get the same level of "papping" or "stings" that you see in the UK which is what I mean by tabloid culture.


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    #135
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Bridge93 wrote: »
    I think 11 weeks is a bit harsh, his record obviously came into consideration. But when you think Quinlan got 12 weeks for eye gouging you do wonder about the severity.
    Those saying its not harsh have to step back from the fact its Dylan Hartley and look without bringing the player into it.
    If and this is extremely hypothetical, it had been an Irish player like POC or BOD I don't think people would be agreeing with 11 weeks.

    If I recall correctly, Quinny wasn't banned for eye gouging but for contact 'with the eye area' which was clearly seen on camera. Not Leo's eyes but just below on his bake.

    Hartley has suffered a very severe career thump. Guilty or not it is difficult for me not to feel sympathy for him in some small regard.


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    #136
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I engage in full support of the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schadenfreude on show here.

    Hartley is a fine player, but exactly the kind of player that the sport does not need. Talented enough to make headlines through his ability, but almost determined to make headlines through his lack of a brain.

    As a sport that isn't that far removed in intensity from many bloodsports, respect for the rules and the officials is absolutely key. Any removal of that whatsoever needs to be punished accordingly.

    Well played Barnes, and well played the RFU.

    Hartley, this is effectively last chance saloon for you. Learn from it, or be prepared to spend up to a third of your remaining career unavailable for selection.


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    #137
    seanm92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭seanm92


    ShatterProof wrote: »
    If Hartley was any good he'd be an all black

    And if Strauss was any good he'd be a Springbok by your logic, grow up, the bias here is ridiculous, regardless of his disciplinary record, Hartley can still be an excellent player, TBH I would have had him ahead of Best who has had a woeful international season


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    #138
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    seanm92 wrote: »
    And if Strauss was any good he'd be a Springbok by your logic, grow up, the bias here is ridiculous, regardless of his disciplinary record, Hartley can still be an excellent player, TBH I would have had him ahead of Best who has had a woeful international season

    Wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong.


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    #139
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    seanm92 wrote: »
    And if Strauss was any good he'd be a Springbok by your logic, grow up, the bias here is ridiculous, regardless of his disciplinary record, Hartley can still be an excellent player, TBH I would have had him ahead of Best who has had a woeful international season

    The Dylan Hartley who was 2nd choice in his own country behind a converted centre??


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    #140
    seanm92
    Closed Accounts Posts: 152 ✭✭seanm92


    Tox56 wrote: »
    The Dylan Hartley who was 2nd choice in his own country behind a converted centre??

    Behind a converted centre who will most likely start in the test games for the lions and who was the player of the year in the Aviva premiership


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    #141
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    The Dylan Hartley who was 2nd choice in his own country behind a converted centre??

    2nd choice behind one of the form hookers in Europe to be fair.


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    #142
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    2nd choice behind one of the form hookers in Europe to be fair.

    I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that Youngs's lineout stats were worse than Best's, and I really wouldn't be surprised if that's true. Had a real horror show against us in the Aviva. He's a fine player but Best would at the very least be in the England 23 if he was English for sure.


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    #143
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    6Nations
    Hartley - 90% (19/21)
    Best - 81% (55/68)

    Nobody threw more succesful lineouts than Rory. (percentages might be a little different to my first post, so have edited this)


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    #144
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Deleted User wrote: »
    6Nations
    Hartley - 90% (19/21)
    Best - 81% (55/68)

    Nobody threw more succesful lineouts than Rory. (percentages might be a little different to my first post, so have edited this)

    I think it was that the lineout malfunctioned at key times that has exercised opinion against Best. I think it's all way overblown and had as much to with the jumpers and calls as the throwing, so I think Best is in with a great shout of test caps.


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    #145
    irishbucsfan
    Registered Users Posts: 37,978 ✭✭✭✭irishbucsfan


    Tox56 wrote: »
    I'm pretty sure I heard somewhere that Youngs's lineout stats were worse than Best's, and I really wouldn't be surprised if that's true. Had a real horror show against us in the Aviva. He's a fine player but Best would at the very least be in the England 23 if he was English for sure.

    Ah yeah Best is great. I'm not talking about him. You were making it out that not being able to start ahead of Youngs was shameful because he's a converted center! Strauss is a converted 7 let's not forget!

    Best is good enough to play in the Lions tests and he always was. Hartley and Youngs are also. And Hibbard as well, I forget him very easilly. Lot's of strong competition there.


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    #146
    Tox56
    Registered Users Posts: 11,636 ✭✭✭✭Tox56


    irishbucsfan wrote: »
    Ah yeah Best is great. I'm not talking about him. You were making it out that not being able to start ahead of Youngs was shameful because he's a converted center! Strauss is a converted 7 let's not forget!

    Best is good enough to play in the Lions tests and he always was. Hartley and Youngs are also. And Hibbard as well, I forget him very easilly. Lot's of strong competition there.

    Wasn't suggesting it was shameful at all, just emphasising that Hartley isn't even first choice in his own country and I wouldn't have him ahead of Best at all, and that it's not like it's Sean Fitzpatrick or someone keeping Hartley out of the team.


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    #147
    prospect
    Registered Users Posts: 4,791 ✭✭✭prospect


    I have little or no sympathy for Hartley.

    Lets clarify one matter that has been said a lot here, he did not 'Lose' his spot on the team, he threw it away.

    The guy has had numerous warnings, sin binnings, red cards, citings and bans, and he still has not learned to control himself.


    If it was a once off incident that was out of character, that cost him his spot, then I would have sympathy for him.
    But given the history of the guy and his obvious lack of respect for other players and the referees/officials, I'm not sorry for him at all.


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