Ulster Bank League 2013-2014 talk/gossip/rumours

lurtz

O'Leary has signed with Grenoble

backgreen

lurtz wrote: »

O'Leary has signed with Grenoble

grenoble academy...could be a super in time

Nialler15

ormond lad wrote: »

He's also played AIL with Munsters in previous seasons. Serious player. will be good to see him in AIL v us this year

If he gets a contract then he can only play for a 1A or 1B team I thought??

bamboozle

lurtz wrote: »

always surprised McCloskey didnt do more,hes 6'7 isnt he?
Presume sean mccarthys leaving shannon?

he's at least 6'7 and built like a sh1t brick house, saw him play in 3 AIL games last season and couldnt get over the size of him, he'd dwarf POC and DOC, in one of the games Mary's v Garryowen i made a point of watching him, he got a knock in a tackle early on and went off as a rolling sub, while off the pitch the difference in Garryowen's scrum was noticable, he came back on and scrum picked up but he wasnt really used in lineout and didnt make his size count in broken play.

Great to see Hurley get his munster contract, i've seen enough of him over the years and have said on here before that he's probably the best 9 in the AIL, always reminded me of a french petit-general, takes a lot of responsibility, place kicking, dictating play.

i believe one of the Con backrowers has gone to Clontarf with Frank Coogan returning south.

lurtz

bamboozle wrote: »

he's at least 6'7 and built like a sh1t brick house, saw him play in 3 AIL games last season and couldnt get over the size of him, he'd dwarf POC and DOC, in one of the games Mary's v Garryowen i made a point of watching him, he got a knock in a tackle early on and went off as a rolling sub, while off the pitch the difference in Garryowen's scrum was noticable, he came back on and scrum picked up but he wasnt really used in lineout and didnt make his size count in broken play.

Great to see Hurley get his munster contract, i've seen enough of him over the years and have said on here before that he's probably the best 9 in the AIL, always reminded me of a french petit-general, takes a lot of responsibility, place kicking, dictating play.

i believe one of the Con backrowers has gone to Clontarf with Frank Coogan returning south.

is it cutriss?

bamboozle

lurtz wrote: »

is it cutriss?

yes, dont know much about him, played plenty of AIL for Con so must be decent

blackdog1

Cutriss is cons best player of the last decade...few injuries and fitness have effected him last few years..a fit cutriss would walk into any ail team. Plays 7 or 6 quality quality player but maybe time has caught up on him

RuPi

Fixtures now up on the IRFU site.

mightymonster

Shannon's Eric Maloney to Con $$$ There clubs in there years
$$$ €?

shaungil

Few fixtures already changed to Friday nights when close together. Skerried VS Boyne Navan and suttonians are changed for example.

CGD

Dublin Clubs in 1A will have 4 or 5 Friday night games

RuPi

Interesting to see some Sunday games

ormond lad

Good set of fixtures for Nenagh.
Only 1 away game in Ulster and 3 of last 4 games are at home.

Risteard

ormond lad wrote: »

Good set of fixtures for Nenagh.
Only 1 away game in Ulster and 3 of last 4 games are at home.

No North fixtures for us. All at home. Playing yourselves away though, on a friday as well it seems.

ormond lad

Any pre season games scheduled and any more transfer news?
Malone playing tarf Saturday. Havent heard of any games we've scheduled yet but we've 3 weeks until first cup game so we'll prob have 1 next week

mightymonster

Con have signed another centre from Highfield that played for con before . Should,have good midfield on 3rd BS ! Highfield look strong . Good backrow signed from Dolphin among others . Hear Landowne have a signing yet announced . Bective and nure have been active in off season too

lurtz

mightymonster wrote: »

Con have signed another centre from Highfield that played for con before . Should,have good midfield on 3rd BS ! Highfield look strong . Good backrow signed from Dolphin among others . Hear Landowne have a signing yet announced . Bective and nure have been active in off season too

can you elaborate any further on the leinster clubs rumours?
Heard peter dooley had gone to bective

CGD

lurtz wrote: »

can you elaborate any further on the leinster clubs rumours?
Heard peter dooley had gone to bective

... and Luke McGrath has gone to Wesley!!:) Only serious and reserched rumours please. Very few academy guys move clubs only suprise is Marsh who went from Trinity to Mary's but that is to move up a level not down

lurtz

CGD wrote: »

... and Luke McGrath has gone to Wesley!!:) Only serious and reserched rumours please. Very few academy guys move clubs only suprise is Marsh who went from Trinity to Mary's but that is to move up a level not down

I was told dooley had moved,was guaranteed a starting place salary accomodation paid for and signing on fee or something

CGD

lurtz wrote: »

I was told dooley had moved,was guaranteed a starting place salary accomodation paid for and signing on fee or something

You forgot to mention the new porche as well!

RuPi

I believe Clontarf defeated Malone 4 tries to 6 on Saturday in a pre season game, highlights can be seen here:

http://www.malone-rfc.com/videos/clontarf-pre-season-opener-42712.html

Stainalert

Has anyone heard anything more about the IRFU Club Sustainability Report? In my opinion if it is allowed to be implemented in its current form it will seriously damage club rugby. I think the IRFU are trying to dumb down and disempower club rugby and it will definitely widen the gap between the club game and pro rugby which I don't think is healthy.

The IRFU have not engaged with clubs on it and seem hell bent on steamrolling it through without any further consultation with the clubs. The fact that they released it at the end of the season when people are generally not around rugby clubs is indicative of their attitude to the whole thing. Clubs that wrote to Leinster to voice their concerns did not even get a response.

The IRFU are refusing to meet with the clubs to discuss it - they say that the IRFU rules don't provide for a meeting with the divisional associations!!

ormond lad

Stainalert wrote: »

Has anyone heard anything more about the IRFU Club Sustainability Report? In my opinion if it is allowed to be implemented in its current form it will seriously damage club rugby. I think the IRFU are trying to dumb down and disempower club rugby and it will definitely widen the gap between the club game and pro rugby which I don't think is healthy.

The IRFU have not engaged with clubs on it and seem hell bent on steamrolling it through without any further consultation with the clubs. The fact that they released it at the end of the season when people are generally not around rugby clubs is indicative of their attitude to the whole thing. Clubs that wrote to Leinster to voice their concerns did not even get a response.

The IRFU are refusing to meet with the clubs to discuss it - they say that the IRFU rules don't provide for a meeting with the divisional associations!!

Haven't heard much more since it was announced but disagree with a few things.
I disagree with you when you say they are trying to "dumb down and disempower club rugby". how are they?
The IRFU did engage with the clubs. I don't know about clubs and not getting responses so cant comment but they did talk to clubs, to get reaction and feedback.

In some ways the gap must be made perfectly clear between pro game and club game. Too often In some ways the gap is blurred. What is unhealthy that is being done or planned to be done by the IRFU.

The idea of criteria that must be met for clubs to turn senior is a very good one and for all clubs in general.

For those who have not read the report you can do so here.

What is in the report that is so bad that it could "seriously damage club rugby"??

Stainalert

ormond lad wrote: »

Haven't heard much more since it was announced but disagree with a few things.
I disagree with you when you say they are trying to "dumb down and disempower club rugby". how are they?
The IRFU did engage with the clubs. I don't know about clubs and not getting responses so cant comment but they did talk to clubs, to get reaction and feedback.

In some ways the gap must be made perfectly clear between pro game and club game. Too often In some ways the gap is blurred. What is unhealthy that is being done or planned to be done by the IRFU.

The idea of criteria that must be met for clubs to turn senior is a very good one and for all clubs in general.

For those who have not read the report you can do so here.

What is in the report that is so bad that it could "seriously damage club rugby"??

The IRFU did not engage with clubs properly - They have refused to listen to feedback from the clubs either individually or through the club associations (AISCRA).

The report will ultimately lead to aspiring pros, development and academy players being removed from the club game and a mass exodus of promising players who don't quite make the academy qualifications to the UK and France.

The IRFU used to refer to club rugby as the third tier of Irish Rugby. They have dropped this terminology completely. Pro rugby and amateur rugby now in their opinion should be completely separate. They do not want clubs producing players - They would prefer to leave that to the academies. This report if implemented will seriously inhibit a clubs ability to develop players - The modern 1A player puts a huge amount of time into his game and makes considerable sacrifices. How sustainable is this if players cannot even be refunded legitimate expenses. A player who works in Dublin but wants to continue to play with his home club won't be financially able to afford to do that without expenses - The report caps a clubs total player expenses to 10,000 euro - If a player makes return trips to Limerick twice week say 18 times a year (Based on 18 league games) he would be out of pocket for about 3 grand (and thats just petrol expenses).

The proposed regulations about player transfers discriminate against an individuals freedom and ability to make decisions for themselves and may well reward mediocre clubs. It seems to be derived from the principle that all players move for monetary gain. Players move for a number of reasons:
- they are not happy with their existing club
- they are not happy with coaching style or a teams style of play
- they are struggling with form and cannot get selected
- There is a clash of personailities between the player and another player / coach / club official
- They do not like an individual / commitee within the club
- The player may simply need a fresh start for personal reasons or may want to start afresh in a club that does not have preconceptions about their ability or mentality.

The proposed points allocation system is inequitable and apparently has been copied by Scott Walker in the IRFU from the Aussie club system - As far as I am aware they don't run national leagues in Australia - Their leagues are restricted to cities and regions.

Why should a talented player not seek to play at a higher level?

Why should a player who has more experience of AIL rugby be discriminated against because of this experience. He should be as free to move as any other individual

Why should a player coach be discriminated against in terms of transferring clubs. A key ingredient to coaching development is the introduction of new ideas and perspectives and techniques - Working in different environments is one way of experiencing this

If a club has a number of similar aged players who all choose to retire at the same time why should the club be penalised for trying to recruit players to replace these experienced players. If the monetary aspect of player transfers is properly policed then why is this club points allocation system necessary.

University Scholarship Schemes - How is it fair that universities will continue to benefit from this and other clubs cannot compete with it. The report does not actually define what the definition of an academic scholarship actually is? In the interest of a level playing field why should clubs be prohibited from introducing their own scholarship schemes? If a player receives an academic scholarship is he restricted from playing for a club other than the university?

Re the suggested Criteria for entry for all All Ireland League teams it is unobtainable for most clubs without an army of recruits. One of the suggested criteria is each club should field a female 1st xv and a female youth team and 1 other age band. How realistic and achievable is this?

The IRFU are also proposing to withdraw prize funds for AIL - Surely this has nothing to do with this report and is just a convenient way for the IRFU to reduce their expenditure?

ormond lad

Stainalert wrote: »

The IRFU did not engage with clubs properly - They have refused to listen to feedback from the clubs either individually or through the club associations (AISCRA).

The report will ultimately lead to aspiring pros, development and academy players being removed from the club game and a mass exodus of promising players who don't quite make the academy qualifications to the UK and France.

The IRFU used to refer to club rugby as the third tier of Irish Rugby. They have dropped this terminology completely. Pro rugby and amateur rugby now in their opinion should be completely separate. They do not want clubs producing players - They would prefer to leave that to the academies. This report if implemented will seriously inhibit a clubs ability to develop players - The modern 1A player puts a huge amount of time into his game and makes considerable sacrifices. How sustainable is this if players cannot even be refunded legitimate expenses. A player who works in Dublin but wants to continue to play with his home club won't be financially able to afford to do that without expenses - The report caps a clubs total player expenses to 10,000 euro - If a player makes return trips to Limerick twice week say 18 times a year (Based on 18 league games) he would be out of pocket for about 3 grand (and thats just petrol expenses).

The proposed regulations about player transfers discriminate against an individuals freedom and ability to make decisions for themselves and may well reward mediocre clubs. It seems to be derived from the principle that all players move for monetary gain. Players move for a number of reasons:
- they are not happy with their existing club
- they are not happy with coaching style or a teams style of play
- they are struggling with form and cannot get selected
- There is a clash of personailities between the player and another player / coach / club official
- They do not like an individual / commitee within the club
- The player may simply need a fresh start for personal reasons or may want to start afresh in a club that does not have preconceptions about their ability or mentality.

The proposed points allocation system is inequitable and apparently has been copied by Scott Walker in the IRFU from the Aussie club system - As far as I am aware they don't run national leagues in Australia - Their leagues are restricted to cities and regions.

Why should a talented player not seek to play at a higher level?

Why should a player who has more experience of AIL rugby be discriminated against because of this experience. He should be as free to move as any other individual

Why should a player coach be discriminated against in terms of transferring clubs. A key ingredient to coaching development is the introduction of new ideas and perspectives and techniques - Working in different environments is one way of experiencing this

If a club has a number of similar aged players who all choose to retire at the same time why should the club be penalised for trying to recruit players to replace these experienced players. If the monetary aspect of player transfers is properly policed then why is this club points allocation system necessary.

University Scholarship Schemes - How is it fair that universities will continue to benefit from this and other clubs cannot compete with it. The report does not actually define what the definition of an academic scholarship actually is? In the interest of a level playing field why should clubs be prohibited from introducing their own scholarship schemes? If a player receives an academic scholarship is he restricted from playing for a club other than the university?

Re the suggested Criteria for entry for all All Ireland League teams it is unobtainable for most clubs without an army of recruits. One of the suggested criteria is each club should field a female 1st xv and a female youth team and 1 other age band. How realistic and achievable is this?

The IRFU are also proposing to withdraw prize funds for AIL - Surely this has nothing to do with this report and is just a convenient way for the IRFU to reduce their expenditure?

From what I have heard they dealt with virtually all clubs and it is only minority of clubs who did not respond
This report will not lead to aspiring pro's, development and academy players being removed from the club game. Where else will they play?? Only a tiny tiny number will get rugby abroad and they've nowhere else to play. Provincial A teams don't play enough and the number of games those sides play will not significantly increase on what they currently play.
Pro and Amatuer Rugby in most ways should be completely separate.

The IRFU does want clubs to produce players. The academy is the ideal way in most circumstances but only a tiny tiny proportion of players will get academy contracts on finishing underage rugby or even a shot at potentially getting an academy contract and it is club rugby where they get seen. The IRFU know that and plan to work that to the way that works best for all parties.
Any AIL and top junior player, not just 1A, puts a huge amount of time into his game and makes significant sacrifices.
The report caps what a player can receive at 10k as an amateur player shouldn't be getting anymore than that for something they are doing as a pastime.
The game is amateur. Why should somebody get 10k for playing rugby outside of their work. 10k is a ridiculous amount of money to earn for playing some sport in your sparetime.

The transfer regulations do not discriminate against anyone. If they did in any way at all the proposal would not have been put to the clubs. Money plays a significant role in plenty of transfers so the proposals are right to highlight that that is not the right way to look at signing players.

Why would the IRFU, a sporting body, have to define what an academic scholarship is?
An academic scholarship has nothing at all to do with rugby and no somebody on an academic scholarship is not stopped from choosing the club they will play with.
The suggested criteria is in no way unobtainable for most clubs. That a club cannot field a womens team in adult and at least 1 u/age grade would be very poor. More and more women taking up sport and taking up rugby.
What in the criteria is unobtainable?? Having a club constitution? All club players being registered? Having separate changing facilities for referees? Having a health and safety statement in place for club facilities? Having match quality floodlights by 3 seasons time? Submitting accounts on time?

Stainalert

ormond lad wrote: »

From what I have heard they dealt with virtually all clubs and it is only minority of clubs who did not respond
This report will not lead to aspiring pro's, development and academy players being removed from the club game. Where else will they play?? Only a tiny tiny number will get rugby abroad and they've nowhere else to play. Provincial A teams don't play enough and the number of games those sides play will not significantly increase on what they currently play.
Pro and Amatuer Rugby in most ways should be completely separate.

The IRFU does want clubs to produce players. The academy is the ideal way in most circumstances but only a tiny tiny proportion of players will get academy contracts on finishing underage rugby or even a shot at potentially getting an academy contract and it is club rugby where they get seen. The IRFU know that and plan to work that to the way that works best for all parties.
Any AIL and top junior player, not just 1A, puts a huge amount of time into his game and makes significant sacrifices.
The report caps what a player can receive at 10k as an amateur player shouldn't be getting anymore than that for something they are doing as a pastime.
The game is amateur. Why should somebody get 10k for playing rugby outside of their work. 10k is a ridiculous amount of money to earn for playing some sport in your sparetime.

The transfer regulations do not discriminate against anyone. If they did in any way at all the proposal would not have been put to the clubs. Money plays a significant role in plenty of transfers so the proposals are right to highlight that that is not the right way to look at signing players.

Why would the IRFU, a sporting body, have to define what an academic scholarship is?
An academic scholarship has nothing at all to do with rugby and no somebody on an academic scholarship is not stopped from choosing the club they will play with.
The suggested criteria is in no way unobtainable for most clubs. That a club cannot field a womens team in adult and at least 1 u/age grade would be very poor. More and more women taking up sport and taking up rugby.
What in the criteria is unobtainable?? Having a club constitution? All club players being registered? Having separate changing facilities for referees? Having a health and safety statement in place for club facilities? Having match quality floodlights by 3 seasons time? Submitting accounts on time?

Hmm sounds like you work for the IRFU.

Despite your claims to the contrary clubs were not canvassed properly - You don't address the issue I raise about the timing of the release of the report or the fact that the IRFU are refusing to engage with the clubs to discuss the issues within it and the implementation. When Connacht clubs complained to the Connacht branch about points in the report they were told to forget about it because it was a done deal and not going to change - No discussion there.

The IRFU have refused to engage with AISCRA - Fact

Re player development - In a lot of cases clubs are expected to foot the expense of developing players and receive nothing in return - They used to receive compensation when a player was rewarded with a full-time contract. An academy contract is worth about 4k but the demands of the academy program do not allow for players to work at the same time. 4k does not go a long way towards living, eating, university expenses so clubs step in and subsidise this. With this report this won't happen any longer. How is this good for player development.

Provincial A games are on the increase this year (Think it is 13 A games) and some of these games now clash with AIL games - This is a trend and looks like it will only increase over time. How is this not detrimental to the club game?

Players are being discriminated against - Each player is given a notional points value depending on his status and the entire squad cannot exceed a suggested total of 80 - A player with over 40 ail caps has a value of 10 points. How is this not discrimination? In my opinion and experience the vast majority of players move for reasons other than money. This report assumes the opposite. What is wrong with a player wanting to play at the top level available to him?

Scholarships are dressed up as academic scholarships and then linked to the sports club within the university. They are in effect sports scholarships officially granted by the actual university body and not the sports club within the university.

The report does not cap an individual player at 10k - It caps the total club at 10k i.e. 10k is the total expenses permitted for all players within the club at all levels - not realistic or fair on clubs who rely on players who travel to them on a regular basis.

Yes lots of woman taking up rugby but should a club not be allowed compete at AIL level because it cannot field a woman's team. Lots of clubs pushing this but still not enough take up. Old Wesley have been trying to introduce a woman's team for 3 years and have around 10 players playing tag rugby so by the logic of this report they cannot play ail rugby. Nothing wrong with any of the other criteria you mention but there are tons of others within the report that you don't.

Report suggests that accounts should be officially signed off by auditors - Not only is this a significant expense to clubs but you will find most club treasurers will not want to put their names to these accounts if they have to be officially signed off on - Too much professional risk for what is a voluntary role

ormond lad

Stainalert wrote: »

Hmm sounds like you work for the IRFU.

Despite your claims to the contrary clubs were not canvassed properly - You don't address the issue I raise about the timing of the release of the report or the fact that the IRFU are refusing to engage with the clubs to discuss the issues within it and the implementation. When Connacht clubs complained to the Connacht branch about points in the report they were told to forget about it because it was a done deal and not going to change - No discussion there.

The IRFU have refused to engage with AISCRA - Fact

Re player development - In a lot of cases clubs are expected to foot the expense of developing players and receive nothing in return - They used to receive compensation when a player was rewarded with a full-time contract. An academy contract is worth about 4k but the demands of the academy program do not allow for players to work at the same time. 4k does not go a long way towards living, eating, university expenses so clubs step in and subsidise this. With this report this won't happen any longer. How is this good for player development.

Provincial A games are on the increase this year (Think it is 13 A games) and some of these games now clash with AIL games - This is a trend and looks like it will only increase over time. How is this not detrimental to the club game?

Players are being discriminated against - Each player is given a notional points value depending on his status and the entire squad cannot exceed a suggested total of 80 - A player with over 40 ail caps has a value of 10 points. How is this not discrimination? In my opinion and experience the vast majority of players move for reasons other than money. This report assumes the opposite. What is wrong with a player wanting to play at the top level available to him?

Scholarships are dressed up as academic scholarships and then linked to the sports club within the university. They are in effect sports scholarships officially granted by the actual university body and not the sports club within the university.

The report does not cap an individual player at 10k - It caps the total club at 10k i.e. 10k is the total expenses permitted for all players within the club at all levels - not realistic or fair on clubs who rely on players who travel to them on a regular basis.

Yes lots of woman taking up rugby but should a club not be allowed compete at AIL level because it cannot field a woman's team. Lots of clubs pushing this but still not enough take up. Old Wesley have been trying to introduce a woman's team for 3 years and have around 10 players playing tag rugby so by the logic of this report they cannot play ail rugby. Nothing wrong with any of the other criteria you mention but there are tons of others within the report that you don't.

Report suggests that accounts should be officially signed off by auditors - Not only is this a significant expense to clubs but you will find most club treasurers will not want to put their names to these accounts if they have to be officially signed off on - Too much professional risk for what is a voluntary role

No I just don't look to be all negative when I can see plenty of positives and see that the IRFU are not the "big bad wolf" that some like to say they are.

IRFU did canvass clubs. Some may not have replied to queries and that isn't a surprise. You rarely get 100% participation in any questionnaire's etc.
Club's still do receive reward/acknowledgement etc for helping develop players to the standard of being a professional rugby player.
Academy contract worth more than 4k and clubs receive plenty from players making it to professional levels.

It is not a trend that more provincial A games are played and which will only continue and worsen. Yes Munster A played 13 times last season and yes some clashed with AIL games but how many AIL players are involved. These games mainly use contracted players who otherwise would not have games on a weekend.

A player with over 40 AIL caps is somebody who has played every game for virtually 3 full seasons which is essentially caps over 4 seasons as very few players play every AIL game for 3 seasons running

Apols read it somehow as 1 player getting 10k. Even if it is 10k for all players. That is realistic enough on basis of 20 or so players getting something(doesn't happen) and if it was 20 players getting money if all got the same they would receive €500 which is not huge but still considerable enough.

The IRFU is not just about men's rugby there is a multitude of strands to the game that the IRFU covers from minis to vets rugby and yes in my opinion the IRFU are dead right to say clubs must field a women's side. This improves clubs and makes clubs stronger and gets more people into the sport and involved in clubs. It may seem unfair but clubs should be working to expand their horizons and this is a great way of doing so.

Look at the figures on club debt in the report. Nearly 50 clubs have debts of over €100k. The signing off of club accounts by auditors is to stop scanario's like that happening more. Surely the cost of an auditor is better than no auditor and somehow a club running up an unmanageable debt that is potentially dangerous to the future of a club

BTW have you put any of your concerns to the IRFU or your provincial branch through your club? What club you involved with. If so concerned would you think of volunteering to work on these proposals which you feel so aggrieved by

CGD

Does sound alot like an IRFU employee or comitte member me thinks!

We are a junior club and weren't contacted re this report

Loose all our good youths every year to colleges which are offering in some cases 70 points towards entrance (NUIM) Carlow IT do something similar, plus all give free fees to large groups of players crca €2,500 to everyone else. Bigger Colleges have free accomadation, free tuition, free fees and player contributions of €80 - €150 per week. Yesterday parents council estimated that a student living away from home attending college costs circa €15k. Free to top players on so called academis scholarships!

Definetly uneven playing field, poorly thought out, poorly researched, poorly explained and only cherry picked certain areas. Will never be properly policed anyway so pointless at the end of the day.

backgreen

Stainalert wrote: »

Hmm sounds like you work for the IRFU.

Despite your claims to the contrary clubs were not canvassed properly - You don't address the issue I raise about the timing of the release of the report or the fact that the IRFU are refusing to engage with the clubs to discuss the issues within it and the implementation. When Connacht clubs complained to the Connacht branch about points in the report they were told to forget about it because it was a done deal and not going to change - No discussion there.

The IRFU have refused to engage with AISCRA - Fact

Re player development - In a lot of cases clubs are expected to foot the expense of developing players and receive nothing in return - They used to receive compensation when a player was rewarded with a full-time contract. An academy contract is worth about 4k but the demands of the academy program do not allow for players to work at the same time. 4k does not go a long way towards living, eating, university expenses so clubs step in and subsidise this. With this report this won't happen any longer. How is this good for player development.

Provincial A games are on the increase this year (Think it is 13 A games) and some of these games now clash with AIL games - This is a trend and looks like it will only increase over time. How is this not detrimental to the club game?

Players are being discriminated against - Each player is given a notional points value depending on his status and the entire squad cannot exceed a suggested total of 80 - A player with over 40 ail caps has a value of 10 points. How is this not discrimination? In my opinion and experience the vast majority of players move for reasons other than money. This report assumes the opposite. What is wrong with a player wanting to play at the top level available to him?

Scholarships are dressed up as academic scholarships and then linked to the sports club within the university. They are in effect sports scholarships officially granted by the actual university body and not the sports club within the university.

The report does not cap an individual player at 10k - It caps the total club at 10k i.e. 10k is the total expenses permitted for all players within the club at all levels - not realistic or fair on clubs who rely on players who travel to them on a regular basis.

Yes lots of woman taking up rugby but should a club not be allowed compete at AIL level because it cannot field a woman's team. Lots of clubs pushing this but still not enough take up. Old Wesley have been trying to introduce a woman's team for 3 years and have around 10 players playing tag rugby so by the logic of this report they cannot play ail rugby. Nothing wrong with any of the other criteria you mention but there are tons of others within the report that you don't.

Report suggests that accounts should be officially signed off by auditors - Not only is this a significant expense to clubs but you will find most club treasurers will not want to put their names to these accounts if they have to be officially signed off on - Too much professional risk for what is a voluntary role

you make some valid points..i think there is another tier needed a semi-pro div 1 between the top8/10 clubs with a good financial structure to cater for the likes of ronaldson ,matt healy etc,and the rest ameateur..give everyone an aspiration

Risteard

There are some aspects of the report that seem very harsh on a club IMO.

Main one for me is a women's team for all AIL teams and an underage women's team. Also three adult male XVs.

Limerick for example currently has 8 AIL clubs. It's also not beyond the realms of possibility that there could be 9 next year if St. Mary's can make the step up and Richmond and Thomond stay in 2B.

Is the demand there for 8 or 9 women's XVs in a city the size of Limerick? Likewise can all of these teams field 3 adult teams? Rugby is big enough here but hardly that big.

These rules could have the effect of punishing teams and players who have worked really hard because they wanted to play at a higher level. They will be capped at J1 despite wanting to play and in some cases being capable of playing AIL.