Ulster Bank League 2013-2014 talk/gossip/rumours

ormond lad

CGD wrote: »

Does sound alot like an IRFU employee or comitte member me thinks!

We are a junior club and weren't contacted re this report

Loose all our good youths every year to colleges which are offering in some cases 70 points towards entrance (NUIM) Carlow IT do something similar, plus all give free fees to large groups of players crca €2,500 to everyone else. Bigger Colleges have free accomadation, free tuition, free fees and player contributions of €80 - €150 per week. Yesterday parents council estimated that a student living away from home attending college costs circa €15k. Free to top players on so called academis scholarships!

Definetly uneven playing field, poorly thought out, poorly researched, poorly explained and only cherry picked certain areas. Will never be properly policed anyway so pointless at the end of the day.

What are you on about wrt the bit in red?
All rural clubs lose players to other clubs when players are 17/18 and start college. We lose several every season to clubs in Limerick/Cork for college.
Many clubs in the citys offer accommodation or help with accommodation as well.

backgreen wrote: »

you make some valid points..i think there is another tier needed a semi-pro div 1 between the top8/10 clubs with a good financial structure to cater for the likes of ronaldson ,matt healy etc,and the rest ameateur..give everyone an aspiration

Who will fund this semi pro division. Better off with using provincial A sides better than funding a semi pro division 1.

ormond lad

Risteard wrote: »

There are some aspects of the report that seem very harsh on a club IMO.

Main one for me is a women's team for all AIL teams and an underage women's team. Also three adult male XVs.

Limerick for example currently has 8 AIL clubs. It's also not beyond the realms of possibility that there could be 9 next year if St. Mary's can make the step up and Richmond and Thomond stay in 2B.

Is the demand there for 8 or 9 women's XVs in a city the size of Limerick? Likewise can all of these teams field 3 adult teams? Rugby is big enough here but hardly that big.

These rules could have the effect of punishing teams and players who have worked really hard because they wanted to play at a higher level. They will be capped at J1 despite wanting to play and in some cases being capable of playing AIL.

Some aspects may appear harsh but most are not at all.
There is already women's XV's in Bohs, Shannon, Munsters and I think another few clubs who are AIL clubs off the top of my head.
I don't see how many of these rules will punish clubs and players.

CGD

ormond lad wrote: »

What are you on about wrt the bit in red?
All rural clubs lose players to other clubs when players are 17/18 and start college. We lose several every season to clubs in Limerick/Cork for college.
Many clubs in the citys offer accommodation or help with accommodation as well.
Who will fund this semi pro division. Better off with using provincial A sides better than funding a semi pro division 1.

As another poster suggested, I only agreed! You do seem to defend the IRFU fairly agressively for some one that is not involved!

You condardict yourself by agreeing that players go to Cork & Limerick and get free accomadation that just backs up my view that this can't be policed and is worthless. Clubs, colleges etc have accomadations, free fees, expenses to offer and nothing will change as IRFU will back down if all of these perks have to be quantified and accounted for. Not interested in back and forth debate. I have my view you have yours.

shaungil

how many AIL teams currently fulfil the requirements re Ladies rugby do you know?

backgreen

ormond lad wrote: »

Who will fund this semi pro division. Better off with using provincial A sides better than funding a semi pro division 1.

the A game is a fully pro game,AIL is semi-pro without been recogisned as such,the majority of it should go amateur but we need a semi-pro structure at the top to help the guy(who fell through the net/late developer etc.)

ormond lad

CGD wrote: »

As another poster suggested, I only agreed! You do seem to defend the IRFU fairly agressively for some one that is not involved!

You condardict yourself by agreeing that players go to Cork & Limerick and get free accomadation that just backs up my view that this can't be policed and is worthless. Clubs, colleges etc have accomadations, free fees, expenses to offer and nothing will change as IRFU will back down if all of these perks have to be quantified and accounted for. Not interested in back and forth debate. I have my view you have yours.

I will give the IRFU and anybody criticism if I feel its deserved but I agree with a lot of this report. Just because I agree with many elements of the report doesn't immediately mean I am involved with the IRFU in any way.

I don't contradict myself and certainly have not been defending the IRFU "aggressively". The IRFU are clear in this report that things will change. Too many clubs are spending ridiculous amounts of money seeking success and it just isn't viable.

Risteard

ormond lad wrote: »

Some aspects may appear harsh but most are not at all.
There is already women's XV's in Bohs, Shannon, Munsters and I think another few clubs who are AIL clubs off the top of my head.
I don't see how many of these rules will punish clubs and players.

If it's a requirement for an AIL club to have a women's team, then it will punish those teams who can't field one, even if it's not for lack of trying.

There are a few women's teams in Limerick and AIL teams I agree and it's great to see, but not every club can field them. If a club is told "You don't have a women's team, so your men's first XV can't play in AIL" that is completely unfair on the men's team who may have worked very hard for a number of years to get to where they are.

Looking at the report there are a number of criteria, all of which must be met. If only a certain amount need to be met then it would be more fair IMO.

For the record, I'm not completely against the report as I know it's just about trying to keep the clubs sustainable and in some cases trying to save them from themselves.

ormond lad

backgreen wrote: »

the A game is a fully pro game,AIL is semi-pro without been recogisned as such,the majority of it should go amateur but we need a semi-pro structure at the top to help the guy(who fell through the net/late developer etc.)

The A game is not a fully pro game. Quite a few sides in B&I cup the main A competition are not fully pro and a considerable few teams that compete in the B&I Cup are totally amatuer. The AIL is not semi pro and shouldn't be.

backgreen

ormond lad wrote: »

The A game is not a fully pro game. Quite a few sides in B&I cup the main A competition are not fully pro and a considerable few teams that compete in the B&I Cup are totally amatuer. The AIL is not semi pro and shouldn't be.

could you name for me some of the B and I teams that are fully amateur,you already said AIL clubs are spending riduculous amounts of money seeking success...is this not semi-pro?

ormond lad

backgreen wrote: »

could you name for me some of the B and I teams that are fully amateur,you already said AIL clubs are spending riduculous amounts of money seeking success...is this not semi-pro?

The Scottish sides like Melrose, Sterling County are amateur and im fairly sure the welsh sides who play in B&I Cup are qualifiers from the Welsh premier league which is amatuer

CGD

ormond lad wrote: »

The Scottish sides like Melrose, Sterling County are amateur and im fairly sure the welsh sides who play in B&I Cup are qualifiers from the Welsh premier league which is amatuer

Ameatuer the same as AIL teams are! Niave to think thes clubs don't offer expenses, inducements, accomadation or whatever else is required. Loads of non native players on these team and not there for the scenery!

backgreen

ormond lad wrote: »

The Scottish sides like Melrose, Sterling County are amateur and im fairly sure the welsh sides who play in B&I Cup are qualifiers from the Welsh premier league which is amatuer

"fairly sure" is the core of a lot of problems...none of the scottish clubs you mentioned categorically state they are ameteur on their websites and either do the welsh principality premiership..think we will let it at that

ormond lad

shaungil wrote: »

how many AIL teams currently fulfil the requirements re Ladies rugby do you know?

Think there is 30 or so AIL clubs with womens teams at the moment but do

backgreen wrote: »

"fairly sure" is the core of a lot of problems...none of the scottish clubs you mentioned categorically state they are ameteur on their websites and either do the welsh principality premiership..think we will let it at that

They are amateur.
Gala, Hawick, Melrose, Edinburgh Accies all amateur. The professional players with Glasgow and Edinburgh are "drafted" each year to the amateur Scottish premiership clubs

backgreen

ormond lad wrote: »

Think there is 30 or so AIL clubs with womens teams at the moment but do
They are amateur.
Gala, Hawick, Melrose, Edinburgh Accies all amateur. The professional players with Glasgow and Edinburgh are "drafted" each year to the amateur Scottish premiership clubs

so are Lansdowne/CON/Garryowen amateur..you are taking the definition of amateur to the extreme...sham-amateur might be more appropriate

CGD

backgreen wrote: »

so are Lansdowne/CON/Garryowen amateur..you are taking the definition of amateur to the extreme...sham-amateur might be more appropriate

add to that Clontarf, Belvo, Mary's, Shannon, Young Munster, UL, UCD etc etc all the way down the leagues go to Junior 2b and then you can call it ametur only but even then some one is getting a few quid to coach, petrol money etc.

GAA call themselves ametur but that also is name only and not based in fact

Game is semi pro in everything but name no amount of side stepping or anything else gets away from that fact

ormond lad

Nenagh beat Munsters in good workout ahead of Limerick Charity Cup tonight 4 trys to 3.
Any other pre season games played yesterday/tonight and any games tomorrow?

@CGD game is not semi pro in everything but name. Not at that level

CGD

ormond lad wrote: »

Nenagh beat Munsters in good workout ahead of Limerick Charity Cup tonight 4 trys to 3.
Any other pre season games played yesterday/tonight and any games tomorrow?

@CGD game is not semi pro in everything but name. Not at that level

If you look up the definition of semi pro it is a more suitable name for at least the top 2 divisions in AIL than amateur! No matter what you say there is no changing that. Not sanctioned by IRFU but in reality it is what happens

backgreen

CGD wrote: »

If you look up the definition of semi pro it is a more suitable name for at least the top 2 divisions in AIL than amateur! No matter what you say there is no changing that. Not sanctioned by IRFU but in reality it is what happens[/QUOTE
agree with you...or else come up with a new definition for amateur...athletics went down this road many years ago...

bamboozle

a few preseason updates, Clontarf beat Malone last weekend 42-26 and yesterday we beat Leinster U20's by about 10 points. Leinster U20's are a big team but no-one from the stood out really as they didnt have much posession, their lineout was a shambles and Tarf dominated the scrum so they didnt really have a platform.

CGD

bamboozle wrote: »

a few preseason updates, Clontarf beat Malone last weekend 42-26 and yesterday we beat Leinster U20's by about 10 points. Leinster U20's are a big team but no-one from the stood out really as they didnt have much posession, their lineout was a shambles and Tarf dominated the scrum so they didnt really have a platform.

Hardly a suprise as it was clontarfs senior team who I'll be challenging for the top spot in 1a this season. Good runout for both teams who both got what they wanted out of the day

ormond lad

Leinster League Cup & Shield and Charity Cups in Munster begin this weekend
League Cup
Section A
Wesley v Lansdowne & UCD v Blackrock
Section B
Marys v Bective & Clontarf v Terenure
League Shield
Section A
Skerries v Naas & Suttonians v DLSP
Section B
Greystones v Boyne & Tullamore v NUIM Barnhall

Charity Cups
Limerick
Nenagh v Garryowen & Clare County v UL Bohs

Should be some very good games across the provinces. Great to see all money raised at games in Limerick Charity Cup this weekend going to Shane Delaney Trust, a fund for former Nenagh player hurt in OZ earlier this year

CGD

ormond lad wrote: »

Leinster League Cup & Shield and Charity Cups in Munster begin this weekend
League Cup
Section A
Wesley v Lansdowne & UCD v Blackrock
Section B
Marys v Bective & Clontarf v Terenure
League Shield
Section A
Skerries v Naas & Suttonians v DLSP
Section B
Greystones v Boyne & Tullamore v NUIM Barnhall

Charity Cups
Limerick
Nenagh v Garryowen & Clare County v UL Bohs

Should be some very good games across the provinces. Great to see all money raised at games in Limerick Charity Cup this weekend going to Shane Delaney Trust, a fund for former Nenagh player hurt in OZ earlier this year

Hope people turn out to watch good cause an weather use to be good this weekend

Stainalert

Belvo well beaten by Leinster 20s on Tuesday apparently

turtleshead

Any further news on transfers to and from limerick clubs? Clubs are back a few weeks now so we should start seeing who is signed for who at this stage?

ormond lad

turtleshead wrote: »

Any further news on transfers to and from limerick clubs? Clubs are back a few weeks now so we should start seeing who is signed for who at this stage?

Havent heard anything but the Limerick Charity Cup starts with games between Nenagh and Garryowen and Clare County and Bohs this weekend so more should be known about signings for these clubs after their 2 games

ormond lad

Nenagh beat Garryowen 24-22 in Limerick Charity Cup. Had been 15-7 down at halftime but great performance in 2nd half led to well deserved win for Nenagh. Any other games played tonight?

bamboozle

ormond lad wrote: »

Nenagh beat Garryowen 24-22 in Limerick Charity Cup. Had been 15-7 down at halftime but great performance in 2nd half led to well deserved win for Nenagh. Any other games played tonight?

Terenure beat Clontarf by a point in the Leinster league, they were nineteen point down at one stage,? Tarf have signed Peter du toit, Irish u20 scrum half a few seasons back.

ormond lad

Leinster Senior League Cup and Shield results from the weekend. Some very big margins in section A of Cup. Didn't expect that big a margin in either game though winning team is not unexpected.
Barnhall look strong for 2B sides. rude awakening for Tullamore going up senior
League Cup
Section A:
Old Wesley 6, Lansdowne 56; UCD 57, Blackrock College RFC 13;
Section B:
St Marys College RFC 31, Bective Rangers 17; Terenure College RFC 28, Clontarf 27;
League Shield
Section A:
Naas 37, Skerries 31; Suttonians 10, De La Salle Palmerston 11;
Leinster Senior League Shield
Section B:
Tullamore 12, NUIM Barnhall 45; Greystones 27, Boyne 14;

madds

ormond lad wrote: »

Barnhall look strong for 2B sides. rude awakening for Tullamore going up senior
League Cup

Heard Tullamore were poor enough to be honest. Could be a long campaign for them.

ormond lad

madds wrote: »

Heard Tullamore were poor enough to be honest. Could be a long campaign for them.

They wont go down anyway and will get the 2/3 wins they need to stay safe. Tullamore may have been poor but Barnhall are a 2A side and will be strong on back of last seasons promotion.
Jonny Moylan will have Tullamore well prepared for the season and his experience as coach with us in Nenagh will really stand to him and Tullamore