Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

MJohnston

cson wrote: »

Preclearance is fast losing its time advantage at the origin end given how early you've to be airport for it to take into account the two performances of security theatre you're obliged to attend.

You'd only say that if you've never had to do border control at SFO

cson

MJohnston wrote: »

You'd only say that if you've never had to do border control at SFO

I've had to do border control in the US a few times, unless you get unlucky with a spate of similar time arrivals from the Middle East (hello JFK!), then you're typically 2hrs tops.

The situation in Dublin now has the airlines telling you to be at the airport 3hrs before the flight and usually 1.5hrs min before departure to go to preclearance. The whole charade is ridiculous at DUB;

(1) Have some Servisair nobody ask you questions about the purpose of your trip while you queue to check your bag

(2) Have the Desk Agent ask more or less the same questions

(3) Do DUB security theatre. My last couple of times have been 20 mins + through this. I don't live in Ireland anymore ergo no Vodafone, ergo no Express Lane.

(4) Do preclearance security theatre. Usually this is inconsistent with what went on in DUB security theatre (take off shoes, leave on your belt).

(5) Deal with the woefully inadequate space in the preclearance terminal made even worse by gate lice.

MJohnston

cson wrote: »

I've had to do border control in the US a few times, unless you get unlucky with a spate of similar time arrivals from the Middle East (hello JFK!), then you're typically 2hrs tops.

The situation in Dublin now has the airlines telling you to be at the airport 3hrs before the flight and usually 1.5hrs min before departure to go to preclearance. The whole charade is ridiculous at DUB;

(1) Have some Servisair nobody ask you questions about the purpose of your trip while you queue to check your bag

(2) Have the Desk Agent ask more or less the same questions

(3) Do DUB security theatre. My last couple of times have been 20 mins + through this. I don't live in Ireland anymore ergo no Vodafone, ergo no Express Lane.

(4) Do preclearance security theatre. Usually this is inconsistent with what went on in DUB security theatre (take off shoes, leave on your belt).

(5) Deal with the woefully inadequate space in the preclearance terminal made even worse by gate lice.

Okay, but this is all still immeasurably better than the arrival situation at SFO without preclearance. Especially if you have no checked in luggage.

Marcusm

sandbelter wrote: »

You're still dealing with circa half the market, Brazilians, Argentinians and Mexican for example don't qualify for eligibility....judging from the past comments Brazilians students seem to make up a sizable proportion of the traffic, especially at the lower price points. Argentina has just joined the student exchange programme (again cost conscious), but I'm not seeing anything that would change them from using KLM, Iberia or TAP.

You won’t find price conscious Brazilian students using the US as a transit hub from Ireland to Brazil unless they have a 10 year US tourist visa in which case they probably woukdn’t Be in Ireland in the first place. Interchange at MIA would be for Ireland o/d and wealthy South American’s for whom a long term US tourist visa would already be held.

trellheim

Okay, but this is all still immeasurably better than the arrival situation at SFO without preclearance.

Not really. Worst max wait time at the moment is 2 hours 9 mins in SFO Terminal G with an average time of 47 minutes which beats CBP . See https://awt.cbp.gov/

steve-o

cson wrote: »

(5) Deal with the woefully inadequate space in the preclearance terminal made even worse by gate lice.

Most people don't realise they are usually free to go upstairs after preclearance because it's sealed off until most US flights are gone. There's loads of space (and better coffee). I don't why any flights board from the cramped downstairs area while the corresponding gates upstairs can be used.

Noxegon

MJohnston wrote: »

Okay, but this is all still immeasurably better than the arrival situation at SFO without preclearance. Especially if you have no checked in luggage.

I flew PVG-SFO a few weeks ago and cleared immigration in sixty seconds using my Global Entry card.

I haven't tried using preclearance since I got approved for GE, but I suspect it will have minimal benefit if I'm still required to be there three hours early.

alancostello

Noxegon wrote: »

I flew PVG-SFO a few weeks ago and cleared immigration in sixty seconds using my Global Entry card.

I haven't tried using preclearance since I got approved for GE, but I suspect it will have minimal benefit if I'm still required to be there three hours early.

Last week even those with Global Entry were required to join the normal queue for entry to the CBP area and security, so you would have saved an hour waiting for visa checks, but still would have had to wait an hour to get to the GE stations.

cson

Holders of GE have to do the unusual charade of calling to a CBP agent regardless. Shorter queue than regular CBP though.

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

Not really. Worst max wait time at the moment is 2 hours 9 mins in SFO Terminal G with an average time of 47 minutes which beats CBP . See https://awt.cbp.gov/

Useful link - Max wait time at Dublin CBP with an entire week of data is 38 minutes:
https://pqt.cbp.gov/report/DUB/06-12-2019

Worst wait time at SFO Terminal A (which is the other half of the international terminal with NO precleared arrivals, ie. where BA passengers go through) in the last week is 178 minutes - basically 3 hours. The max wait times for Terminal G are even more horrific.

The scheduled arrival time of EI147 to SFO is 3:35pm - one of the worst times of the day according to this site.

So it really doesn't look like the data agrees with you!

That all said, even if you had to wait 40 minutes at DUB versus 20 minutes at SFO, I guarantee you most people would pick the 40 minutes at DUB, because they haven't just sat through a 10 hour flight before that. I'm always desperate to get out of the airport after that flight, and I just want to get to the hotel.

goingnowhere

Simple question. Would you rather do US CBP on Irish soil or in the US?

Its a lot less stressful when it comes to connections etc having CBP in Dublin, you don't have to deal with the unknown upon arrival.

The queue in Dublin looks big but are processed quickly. The second security inspection is not really a security inspection as they don't want liquids etc out, its more of a customs check to confirm you haven't food etc. It is not to TSA standards

alancostello

MJohnston wrote: »

Useful link - Max wait time at Dublin CBP with an entire week of data is 38 minutes:
https://pqt.cbp.gov/report/DUB/06-12-2019

Worst wait time at SFO Terminal A (which is the other half of the international terminal with NO precleared arrivals, ie. where BA passengers go through) in the last week is 178 minutes - basically 3 hours. The max wait times for Terminal G are even more horrific.

The scheduled arrival time of EI147 to SFO is 3:35pm - one of the worst times of the day according to this site.

So it really doesn't look like the data agrees with you!

That all said, even if you had to wait 40 minutes at DUB versus 20 minutes at SFO, I guarantee you most people would pick the 40 minutes at DUB, because they haven't just sat through a 10 hour flight before that. I'm always desperate to get out of the airport after that flight, and I just want to get to the hotel.

I would LOVE to know what part of the process that measures. Because on the 13th it took me two hours to get from entering the queue to being at the gate.

NSAman

goingnowhere wrote: »

The queue in Dublin looks big but are processed quickly. The second security inspection is not really a security inspection as they don't want liquids etc out, its more of a customs check to confirm you haven't food etc. It is not to TSA standards

The second check is actually a little crazy IMHO. This has already been done on the pre-check. But I suppose CBP want it as another means of control..... There is no doubt that having pre-clearance in Dublin makes life easier, simply getting off the flight and walking straight into the US is so much easier.

The queues are pretty bad at times in Dublin and many of the booths are not staffed, the queue hopping that goes on drives me nuts, but the staff there especially that English lady are absolutely superb. If they could only make the CPB staff happier..;)

NSAman

MJohnston wrote: »

Useful link - Max wait time at Dublin CBP with an entire week of data is 38 minutes:
https://pqt.cbp.gov/report/DUB/06-12-2019

Worst wait time at SFO Terminal A (which is the other half of the international terminal with NO precleared arrivals, ie. where BA passengers go through) in the last week is 178 minutes - basically 3 hours. The max wait times for Terminal G are even more horrific.

The scheduled arrival time of EI147 to SFO is 3:35pm - one of the worst times of the day according to this site.

So it really doesn't look like the data agrees with you!

That all said, even if you had to wait 40 minutes at DUB versus 20 minutes at SFO, I guarantee you most people would pick the 40 minutes at DUB, because they haven't just sat through a 10 hour flight before that. I'm always desperate to get out of the airport after that flight, and I just want to get to the hotel.

SFO is always bad, I have missed many flights coming back to the states thanks to the crazy situation in SFO. 4 hours one day was the wait.... I would take some of the information put out by Airports and CBP with a grain of salt.

steve-o

MJohnston wrote: »

Useful link - Max wait time at Dublin CBP with an entire week of data is 38 minutes:
https://pqt.cbp.gov/report/DUB/06-12-2019

That is a work of fiction. It bears no resemblance to reality, not even the time in the immigration queue alone.

MJohnston

steve-o wrote: »

That is a work of fiction. It bears no resemblance to reality, not even the time in the immigration queue alone.

Well I wasn't the one who introduced it as evidence, your honour

Tenger

cson wrote: »

......
(1) Have some Servisair nobody ask you questions about the purpose of your trip while you queue to check your bag

(2) Have the Desk Agent ask more or less the same questions

(3) Do DUB security theatre. My last couple of times have been 20 mins + through this. I don't live in Ireland anymore ergo no Vodafone, ergo no Express Lane.

(4) Do preclearance security theatre. Usually this is inconsistent with what went on in DUB security theatre (take off shoes, leave on your belt).

(5) Deal with the woefully inadequate space in the preclearance terminal made even worse by gate lice.

Those "nobodies" are following instructions given to them by the FAA regulated ailrines.

The first security check is airside access and regulated by EASA and IAA.
The downstairs check is TSA level security so has different elements.

I agree that the space is an issue in the lower CBP area.
And I can see the logic in using the term "security theatre"

Nijmegen

The fundamental reason to want to do immigration in Ireland is that it provides certainty. Arrive to the airport 3 hours before your flight and you'll get on it, even if the line is long they'll peel passengers off for the near departures. So if you have a connection you know a delay in immigration on the far side isn't going to be an issue. Similarly when you get off the long ass flight, you just walk from ramp to kerb in a few short minutes and you're on your way to a hotel. The value of all of that in the travel experience is pretty significant to my mind.

Cookiemunster

Shoudn't all this stuff be in the Dublin Airport thread?

goingnowhere

Tenger wrote: »

Those "nobodies" are following instructions given to them by the FAA regulated ailrines.

Another reason to fly with an EU airline to avoid this rubbish

MJohnston

goingnowhere wrote: »

Another reason to fly with an EU airline to avoid this rubbish

Huh? It doesn't matter who you fly with, if you're going to the US.

trellheim

At the moment Id rather rock up same time as other flights and clear at the other end, unless you are on UA22 ( the first one out ) its an absolute circus . Much like arriving flights they should schedule departures to put a limit on the CBP throughput

Jacovs

Probably a bit late, but they have recently refused an airline their requested departure time and forced them to schedule it for nearly 2 hours later.
Someone somewhere is listening, a bit.

MJohnston

trellheim wrote: »

At the moment Id rather rock up same time as other flights and clear at the other end

Just curious, any reasons why? It's never been a circus around EI147 departure times, and I never go to the airport more than 90 minutes prior.

trellheim

My last time on that 147 I was queueing way way back from the escalators down to CBP

In contrast I got UA22 a few weeks back and was through in < 10 mins

goingnowhere

MJohnston wrote: »

Huh? It doesn't matter who you fly with, if you're going to the US.

Aer Lingus don't get into this rubbish, check in passport and address at destination only question is ESTA or VISA and thats it

The CBP security screen ask nothing unless you are on the 'list'

Only US airlines persist with the check in 'bouncer'

Noxegon

goingnowhere wrote: »

Aer Lingus don't get into this rubbish, check in passport and address at destination only question is ESTA or VISA and thats it

The CBP security screen ask nothing unless you are on the 'list'

Only US airlines persist with the check in 'bouncer'

Correct. As I recall last time I was asked who my manager was at work. What that has to do with my desire to travel is anyone’s guess.

Nijmegen

Noxegon wrote: »

Correct. As I recall last time I was asked who my manager was at work. What that has to do with my desire to travel is anyone’s guess.

More to do with whether or not you have a manager, I'd imagine. The system is a poor mans version of the Israeli checks, which have proved effective as a model.

US airlines are the only ones to persist with the bouncer but to be honest none of our airlines have the deeply scarring recent cultural memory of having their frames used to kill several thousand people.

What does amuse me is how American travelers, particularly the baby boomers, coming from this most security conscious place are often the most useless in going through security efficiently. But there you go.

trellheim

but to be honest none of our airlines have the deeply scarring recent cultural memory of having their frames used to kill several thousand people.

they were doing the checks before 9/11

Idbatterim

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/dublin-airport-gets-350m-eib-loan-for-upgrade-1.3932503

Dublin Airport gets €350m EIB loan for upgrade