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Breakthrough Player of the Year?

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    #122
    trouttrout
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,234 ✭✭✭trouttrout


    Tommy O'Donnell
    bamboozle wrote: »
    Do people realise tommy o donnell is the same age as keatley, Paul o donoghue, Cian Healy, Eoin o malley etc.

    Olding, Henderson, murphy, henshaw, marmion and marshall all have had great seasons, I'd go with marmion or Henderson.

    Ya but not every player "breaksthrough" at the same age

    While TOD has been brilliant since Christmas his form was mixed in the first half of the season

    Henderson or Kilcoyne for me


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    #123
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Stuart Olding
    Just to say Henderson was dire last night! He couldnt catch a cold! So even the seemingly immortal have off days


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    #124
    the baby bull elephant
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭the baby bull elephant


    Stuart Olding
    bilston wrote: »
    Just to say Henderson was dire last night! He couldnt catch a cold! So even the seemingly immortal have off days

    Playing at secondrow...


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    #125
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stuart Olding
    bilston wrote: »
    Just to say Henderson was dire last night! He couldnt catch a cold! So even the seemingly immortal have off days

    Just getting the 'bogey' game of the season out of the way before the SF and Final!


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    #126
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Stuart Olding
    the baby bull elephant wrote: »
    Playing at secondrow...

    I wouldn't draw any conclusions on the back of one game but maybe you have a point. In saying that he played second row against the Dragons and played very well. For now I'll say it was just a bad night at the office rather than the effect of him playing lock.


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    #127
    PropJoe10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭PropJoe10


    Jordi Murphy
    Voted for Madigan, although hes been around for a few years now. Henderson and O'Donnell would've been my second and third choices. Henderson is going to be a beast for Ulster and Ireland for years to come.


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    #128
    Blackheath
    Registered Users Posts: 462 ✭✭Blackheath


    Iain Henderson
    It has been a good year for players breaking through when you see the options available


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    #129
    ambid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    Jordi Murphy
    peterako wrote: »
    Would have voted Madigan....but he's hardly a breakthrough THIS year!.....
    FrannoFan wrote: »
    Feel Madigan with over 70 games for Leinster is hardly his breakthrough year.

    The problem with this thread is "breakthrough" isn't defined.

    Madigan had lots of appearances for Leinster before now, but this is his breakthrough year for the Ireland test team. In my opinion, that comfortably counts as a career breakthrough.


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    #130
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,790 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Tommy O'Donnell
    ambid wrote: »
    The problem with this thread is "breakthrough" isn't defined.

    Madigan had lots of appearances for Leinster before now, but this is his breakthrough year for the Ireland test team. In my opinion, that comfortably counts as a career breakthrough.

    Where did he breakthrough for the Ireland test team?


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    #131
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Stuart Olding
    I consider last season as Madigan's breakthrough. He was Leinster's top try scorer in the Rabo League and his performances in general were very good. There was even a clamour to have him selected for Ireland's tour to New Zealand.

    He's an even better player now but you can't really say that he's just broken through this season.


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    #132
    ambid
    Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭ambid


    Jordi Murphy
    phog wrote: »
    Where did he breakthrough for the Ireland test team?

    He made his debut this year.
    Clegg wrote: »
    I consider last season as Madigan's breakthrough. He was Leinster's top try scorer in the Rabo League and his performances in general were very good. There was even a clamour to have him selected for Ireland's tour to New Zealand.

    He's an even better player now but you can't really say that he's just broken through this season.

    Yeah that's fair enough, but my point is that breakthough is open to interpretation. Last year was Madigan's main breakthrough at provincial level but this year was his breakthrough at national level. Had we specified provincial breakthrough only then I'd have voted for somebody else.


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    #133
    Fireball07
    Registered Users Posts: 13,264 ✭✭✭✭Fireball07


    Stuart Olding
    ambid wrote: »
    He made his debut this year.

    I dunno if you could call that his breakthrough.

    I think next season will be his breakthrough season on a national basis, when I expect him to get selected on a regular basis.



    Breakthrough isn't completely defined, but I would take it as a transformation from a fringe player to a fully-fledged player. For example, Donnacha Ryan's breakthrough year may have been when he was 27 or 28, despite getting plenty of appearances before then.

    Someone like Billy Holland still probably hasn't had a full breakthrough season despite getting lots of starts at pro12 level and having had a couple of good seasons.


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    #134
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,790 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Tommy O'Donnell
    ambid wrote: »
    He made his debut this year.
    .

    We've clearly different opinions of what breakthrough means.


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    #135
    thomond2006
    Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Kieran Marmion
    Breakthrough for me largely means the most improved player of the year along with a player who has stepped up in general.

    I voted Henshaw, Henderson is another player in that category.


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    #136
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,790 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Tommy O'Donnell
    thomond2006 wrote: »
    Breakthrough for me largely means the most improved player of the year along with a player who has stepped up in general.

    I voted Henshaw, Henderson is another player in that category.

    Me too for breakthrough, I voted Kilcoyne, Henderson was a close 2nd but I hardly think getting a cap is seen as a breakthrough player.

    If that was the case the list is completely wrong.


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    #137
    Billy Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Billy Boy


    But i guess Jeremy Guscott wouldn't know anything about rugby.

    http://www.thescore.ie/lions-squad-announcement-omahony-robshaw-890042-Apr2013/


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    #138
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Stuart Olding
    Billy Boy wrote: »
    But i guess Jeremy Guscott wouldn't know anything about rugby.

    http://www.thescore.ie/lions-squad-announcement-omahony-robshaw-890042-Apr2013/

    I don't get it, what point are you making here?


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    #139
    Billy Boy
    Registered Users Posts: 2 ✭Billy Boy


    totallegend wrote: »
    I don't get it, what point are you making here?

    The point is that it is common opinion that pom was Ireland's best player in the 6 nations and unlucky to lose out on the lions. So to say a complete novice is a better player is one of the most ridiculous things i've read in years. But that's just my opinion.


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    #140
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,107 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Jordi Murphy
    Billy Boy wrote: »
    The point is that it is common opinion that pom was Ireland's best player in the 6 nations and unlucky to lose out on the lions. So to say a complete novice is a better player is one of the most ridiculous things i've read in years. But that's just my opinion.

    Breakthrough player of the year!!

    Pom for president!!


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    #141
    jacothelad
    Registered Users Posts: 5,911 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    Stuart Olding
    Billy Boy wrote: »
    But i guess Jeremy Guscott wouldn't know anything about rugby.

    http://www.thescore.ie/lions-squad-announcement-omahony-robshaw-890042-Apr2013/

    Well he got about a third of the team wrong.....for what that is worth.


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    #142
    bamboozle
    Registered Users Posts: 3,699 ✭✭✭bamboozle


    Ian Madigan
    Billy Boy wrote: »
    The point is that it is common opinion that pom was Ireland's best player in the 6 nations and unlucky to lose out on the lions. So to say a complete novice is a better player is one of the most ridiculous things i've read in years. But that's just my opinion.

    Pom player of the six nations? False
    Pom unlucky to lose out on lions? Very false.
    messers robshaw, wood, Morgan and probably Beattie were ahead of him, ferris was unlucky as injuries robbed him of a season.

    If Pom wants to keep his place on a joe Schmidt Irish team he will need to reinvent himself and look at the selfless role locky plays at six for Leinster, doing the hard grunt while freeing up his back row colleagues for carrying, kidney in his infinite wisdom had his two best carriers doing the grunt freeing up Pom for the carrying...


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    #143
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Dave Kilcoyne
    POM at the moment is definitely a better player than Murphy. But I think we are seeing the best of Peter O Mahony. Murphy has the greater potential of the two to be really world class. POM is defo ahead as of now though. Maybe I'm slightly biased as I was in school with Murphy, Conway, Macken and Buckley!


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    #144
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,595 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Dave Kilcoyne
    I'd have a tie between o'donnell and jordi murphy


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    #145
    Lelantos
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Lelantos


    Iain Henderson
    Bridge93 wrote: »
    POM at the moment is definitely a better player than Murphy. But I think we are seeing the best of Peter O Mahony. Murphy has the greater potential of the two to be really world class. POM is defo ahead as of now though. Maybe I'm slightly biased as I was in school with Murphy, Conway, Macken and Buckley!

    So Peter O'Mahony at 23 years of age has plateaued as a player eh? I've seen it all now.


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    #146
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Stuart Olding
    Lelantos wrote: »
    So Peter O'Mahony at 23 years of age has plateaued as a player eh? I've seen it all now.

    I don't think that's what was meant at all.


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    #147
    Bridge93
    Registered Users Posts: 7,018 ✭✭✭Bridge93


    Dave Kilcoyne
    Lelantos wrote: »
    So Peter O'Mahony at 23 years of age has plateaued as a player eh? I've seen it all now.

    Not what was meant


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    #148
    Mahatma Geansai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,668 ✭✭✭Mahatma Geansai


    Tommy O'Donnell
    Bridge93 wrote: »
    Not what was meant

    What did you mean then? Surely saying that we are seeing the best of POM now, means that he is the best he will ever be. Hence he has plateaued.


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    #149
    phog
    Registered Users Posts: 23,790 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Tommy O'Donnell
    Mahatma Geansai wrote: »
    What did you mean then? Surely saying that we are seeing the best of POM now, means that he is the best he will ever be. Hence he has plateaued.

    I'd love to know what was meant too?


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    #150
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Stuart Olding
    How can anyone actually compare Murphy and O'Mahony anyway? They are at totally different stages of their careers and play for different teams.


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    #151
    totallegend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,234 ✭✭✭totallegend


    Stuart Olding
    phog wrote: »
    I'd love to know what was meant too?

    I'll take a stab at it...

    POM has had the benefit of an extended run of first team rugby which Murphy has not. So POM has had the time to hit his stride in terms of getting up to the level of fitness and physicality required for HC and international rugby and has had the opportunity to show his ability at that level. He was very lucky that he came onto the scene at a time when there were few enough credible rivals at Munster.

    Murphy has not had those chances because of the players ahead of him at Leinster and the fact that he's two years younger than O'Mahony. So you could definitely make the case that what we have seen of POM is closer to his maximum potential than what we have seen of Murphy.


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