Breakthrough Player of the Year?

its_phil

Stuart Olding

wprathead wrote: »

Browne, Faloon and McKeon have been very consisent this year for Connacht, I nderstand people who don't see them week in overlook them but McKeon especially deserves be on plane to Georgia- had a storming season for us

I'd be very annoyed if Jordi Murphy got the pick over McKeon. McKeon has probably been one of Connachts most consistent players this year and never once looks out of place this year against Easter and Harinordoquy. Really stood up in the mud bath vs Biarritz.

Tox56

its_phil wrote: »

I'd be very annoyed if Jordi Murphy got the pick over McKeon. McKeon has probably been one of Connachts most consistent players this year and never once looks out of place this year against Easter and Harinordoquy. Really stood up in the mud bath vs Biarritz.

Ah yes, but Jordi totally outplayed the Lions captain, checkmate

trouttrout

Tommy O'Donnell

Tox56 wrote: »

Ah yes, but Jordi totally outplayed the Lions captain, checkmate

God Warburton was so poor that night. Worryingly poor considering he's leading he Lions tour

its_phil

Stuart Olding

Tox56 wrote: »

Ah yes, but Jordi totally outplayed the Lions captain, checkmate

Gonna use the line a good few pulled out when Connacht were playing Amlin..:)

But Heineken Cup is a different level!!!

andrewdcs

Jordi Murphy

How was last season Madigans breakthrough season?
He's only 2 sub appearances at international level which he got this season?

Surely 'breakthrough' implies becoming a first team 15 starter for your club, gaining international caps, which may players never quite make, and Madigan did that this season, having almost gotten there towards the end of last.... the fact that he's now undroppable and playing at 12, 15, 10 etc. in place of a guy widely lauded as one of the top 4 10ns in the game all tell me that this has been his year and that it's outshone a lot of other superb seasons for young irish talent.

.ak

Dave Kilcoyne

its_phil wrote: »

I'd be very annoyed if Jordi Murphy got the pick over McKeon. McKeon has probably been one of Connachts most consistent players this year and never once looks out of place this year against Easter and Harinordoquy. Really stood up in the mud bath vs Biarritz.

In fairness Murphy didn't look out of place against Clermont.... At the end of the day, we're in rude health with backrows.

Pudsy33

Jordi Murphy

I've been a Leinster season ticket holder for years, and voted for Madigan. I understands people point, he was very good last year, but this year he really propelled himself into the national spotlight with his fantastic performances. Henderson could very easily have gotten my vote, as could Olding. All brilliant players. Madigan got my vote, though, because I watched him often in the flesh for two seasons.

Edit: I think its unfair that people are suggesting those who voted for Madigan somehow are inferior rugby fans to those who didn't.

totallegend

Stuart Olding

decisions wrote: »

Lot of names I don't recognize on the list if votes for Madigan.

That's the oddest comment I think I've ever seen on this board.

bilston

Stuart Olding

Pudsy33 wrote: »

Edit: I think its unfair that people are suggesting those who voted for Madigan somehow are inferior rugby fans to those who didn't.

Who suggested that?!

Pudsy33

Jordi Murphy

bilston wrote: »

Who suggested that?!

I took things out of context I think, please ignore this

Bogota

Dave Kilcoyne

I'll be slaughtered for this but I think Jordi Murphy is a better player than Peter O'Mahony.

I've watched the two of them and for me the only thinG POM has over Jordi is starts in the HC.

Too soon to say and admittedly Jordi hasn't been tested at the same level as POM but I think I'll be proven right in the future. He could easily be starting at 6/7 for Leinster next season IMO.

trouttrout

Tommy O'Donnell

Bogota wrote: »

I'll be slaughtered for this but I think Jordi Murphy is a better player than Peter O'Mahony.

I've watched the two of them and for me the only thinG POM has over Jordi is starts in the HC.

Too soon to say and admittedly Jordi hasn't been tested at the same level as POM but I think I'll be proven right in the future. He could easily be starting at 6/7 for Leinster next season IMO.

Good god man

I think Murphy will be a very good player, but he's nowhere nearly the level of POM

Bogota

Dave Kilcoyne

trouttrout wrote: »

Good god man

I think Murphy will be a very good player, but he's nowhere nearly the level of POM

No need for the condescending attitude. Its my opinion.

trouttrout

Tommy O'Donnell

Bogota wrote: »

No need for the condescending attitude. Its my opinion.

Well it's a ridiculous opinion. Murphy has looked very good in a few Rabo games but I don't know how anyone can realistically think he's a better player than POM who has been one of Munsters best players this season, as well starting every six nations game for Ireland and having his name mentioned in relation to a Lions spot in what is the most competitive area

What exactly does Murphy do better than POM? You must be thick with Schmidt for holding him back from Heineken Cup starts and Ireland honors so?

I'm amazed by this tbh, I await your reply with baited breath

trouttrout

Tommy O'Donnell

And for the record I think Murphy is going to be a fantastic player. Would rate him higher than Ruddock or D Ryan myself and I couldn't understand all the talk of him going West earlier in the year

Mahatma Geansai

Tommy O'Donnell

Bogota wrote: »

I'll be slaughtered for this but I think Jordi Murphy is a better player than Peter O'Mahony.

I've watched the two of them and for me the only thinG POM has over Jordi is starts in the HC.

Too soon to say and admittedly Jordi hasn't been tested at the same level as POM but I think I'll be proven right in the future. He could easily be starting at 6/7 for Leinster next season IMO.

How are ya Jordi. Hope you get a look in with the Emerging Ireland side over the summer.

Bogota

Dave Kilcoyne

trouttrout wrote: »

Well it's a ridiculous opinion. Murphy has looked very good in a few Rabo games but I don't know how anyone can realistically think he's a better player than POM who has been one of Munsters best players this season, as well starting every six nations game for Ireland and having his name mentioned in relation to a Lions spot in what is the most competitive area

What exactly does Murphy do better than POM? You must be thick with Schmidt for holding him back from Heineken Cup starts and Ireland honors so?

I'm amazed by this tbh, I await your reply with baited breath

Oh apologies for holding such a 'ridiculous' opinion and causing for you to be 'amazed' and waiting with 'baited breath' :rolleyes: Please descend from your high horse and at least have the decency to be a bit more respectful to a fellow poster.

I already said that POM has played in the bigger games and insinuated that its too early to say whether Murphy would excel to the same extent at that level. However, from the games Murphy has been in, IN MY OPINION, he seems to possess a greater range of skills than POM.

Off the top of my head, his work rate and in particular his tackling is exceptional. POM made a combined total of 5 tackles in 2 of the 6N games and he seems to have a habit of going missing in games. Even his overall tackling stat average of 5 tackles in the 6N were lackluster for a flanker. In addition, Murphy is far superior than POM at link play. While POM hangs out on the wing a lot, Murphy seems to be everywhere around the pitch on attacking plays. Reminds me of the early days of Heaslip to be honest. I also think hes a stronger carrier than POM on the evidence I've seen and is definitely more liable to make a break.

Was I angry with Schmidt? Nope. It was Jordi Murphy's first season and its about easing him in. As I said repeatedly its early days and I am only stating my opinion on what I believe on the evidence I've seen.

The only thing to do is to sit and wait. We'll agree to disagree but I appreciate if you wouldn't be so snarky towards me just because I hold an alternative opinion.

Oh and by the way stop beating the POM was unlucky to lose out on Lions drum. He was nowhere near contention (despite the standard response of Gatland to questions for any player left out) and even Limerick and Munster man Liam Toland made absolutely no mention of him in today's IT article, only mentioning Best and Zebo as being unfortunate.

ed7890

Tommy O'Donnell

I think the "POM hangs out on the wing" comes from one run he had in either the Wales game, or the England game, where he got the ball out wide. It's a bit unfair that he's been labeled as hanging out on the wing because of one run. He's usually in the thick of things. I cant remember it happening that often.

Bogota

Dave Kilcoyne

ed7890 wrote: »

I think the "POM hangs out on the wing" comes from one run he had in either the Wales game, or the England game, where he got the ball out wide. It's a bit unfair that he's been labeled as hanging out on the wing because of one run. He's usually in the thick of things. I cant remember it happening that often.

I've seen him on the wings quite a lot. Nothing wrong with it. I am just saying that it's not the trait of a link man which Murphy is.

By the way don't interpret that as saying that POM isn't in the thick of things. I am merely pointing out that while Murphy does a lot more support play running, POM tends to stay out on the wing when he finds himself out in the backline on attacking ball.

sydthebeat

Jordi Murphy

Didn't he play nearly 50 minutes on the wing versus italy???

totallegend

Stuart Olding

ed7890 wrote: »

I think the "POM hangs out on the wing" comes from one run he had in either the Wales game, or the England game, where he got the ball out wide. It's a bit unfair that he's been labeled as hanging out on the wing because of one run. He's usually in the thick of things. I cant remember it happening that often.

Probably also down to Penney's ridiculous tactic of having big forwards on the wing at all times, hopefully consigned to history now, so I don't think it's a flaw with POM's game.

ed7890

Tommy O'Donnell

sydthebeat wrote: »

Didn't he play nearly 50 minutes on the wing versus italy???

Haha touche

trouttrout

Tommy O'Donnell

Bogota wrote: »

Oh apologies for holding such a 'ridiculous' opinion and causing for you to be 'amazed' and waiting with 'baited breath' :rolleyes: Please descend from your high horse and at least have the decency to be a bit more respectful to a fellow poster.

Don't be so precious, I just find it ridiculous to take such a painfully wrong opinion seriously

I already said that POM has played in the bigger games and insinuated that its too early to say whether Murphy would excel to the same extent at that level. However, from the games Murphy has been in, IN MY OPINION, he seems to possess a greater range of skills than POM.

You simply can't even compare the two as players until Murphy starts playing Heineken Cup rugby. For example, Murphy's best performance for Leinster came against an utterly useless Cardiff side in the rabo. Now in a year or two he might be able to put in similar performances at a higher level but that remains to be seen (hopefully he can)

Off the top of my head, his work rate and in particular his tackling is exceptional. POM made a combined total of 5 tackles in 2 of the 6N games and he seems to have a habit of going missing in games. Even his overall tackling stat average of 5 tackles in the 6N were lackluster for a flanker.

POM could do with working on his workrate, but that tackling stat is nonsene. Ireland enjoyed huge spells of pocession during the six nations and you can only tackle what's in front of you. O'Mahoney could make more of a nuisance of himself at the breakdown (not on the deck btw, he's very good at that)

In addition, Murphy is far superior than POM at link play.

What do you mean by this exactly? M

While POM hangs out on the wing a lot,

Does he? I've never noticed it

Murphy seems to be everywhere around the pitch on attacking plays. Reminds me of the early days of Heaslip to be honest.

I've been impressed with his carrying alright, looking forward to seeing can he replicate it when given the chance at a higher level

I also think hes a stronger carrier than POM on the evidence I've seen and is definitely more liable to make a break.

POM has carried brilliantly this season, into some brilliant defenses. Murphy has carried well too but not at the same level (you see the pattern here)

Was I angry with Schmidt? Nope. It was Jordi Murphy's first season and its about easing him in. As I said repeatedly its early days and I am only stating my opinion on what I believe on the evidence I've seen.

Well the simple fact is we haven't seen enough of Murphy to form the opinion that he's better than POM. Maybe next year he'll be pushing for more games at Leinster and there might be an argument to make but not at the moment.

Oh and by the way stop beating the POM was unlucky to lose out on Lions drum. He was nowhere near contention (despite the standard response of Gatland to questions for any player left out) and even Limerick and Munster man Liam Toland made absolutely no mention of him in today's IT article, only mentioning Best and Zebo as being unfortunate.

Nonsense, he shouldn't have been selected but there are dozens of different articles insinuating that he might be a contender

Anyway like you said agree to disagree but I think the claim that Murphy is a better player than POM is one of the most bizarre things I've read on this forum

If you notice I've been reluctant to say what aspects POM is superior at, because tbh, we haven't seen enough of Murphy to make our minds up on that. But the very reason that we haven't seen much of him should be enough to tell you who the better player is at the moment

justsomebloke

Lads please leave the personal sniping there.

Mahatma Geansai

Tommy O'Donnell

ed7890 wrote: »

I think the "POM hangs out on the wing" comes from one run he had in either the Wales game, or the England game, where he got the ball out wide. It's a bit unfair that he's been labeled as hanging out on the wing because of one run. He's usually in the thick of things. I cant remember it happening that often.

It comes from posters creating a fictional argument and using it to criticise POM in order to take some of the heat away from the captain.

trouttrout

Tommy O'Donnell

Even at the height of Penney's big men on the wing phase I didn't see POM out there. It was usually a lock

Fireball07

Stuart Olding

I voted for Henderson, I knew he was class, but his adaptation to Heineken Cup rugby and the big pro12 games has been really impressive.


Don't really think Madigan should count, as he was superb last season too.

Henshaw's had a great year, but I'd rate Henderson's as better..... and TOD has been really impressive, considering I was one of those that had written him off last year. He's had the necessary power to his game, and worked on his breakdown work...he always had the speed. I suppose Killer deserves a big mention, hard to believe he had barely played for Munster this time last year, he's certainly first choice LH now.


Olding's been brilliant recently, expect him to be the big breakthrough player next season if he gets enough gametime.

ed7890

Tommy O'Donnell

I think Penney is still doing some of the big men on the wings tactic. At one stage during the Clermont game, ROG did a cross field kick to the wing, and it was POC who was under it and he caught it well and barreled into somebody. Was that in the Clermont game, does anybody else remember that?

jamiedav2011

Tommy O'Donnell

I think you need to differentiate between 'hanging out on the wing' and 'getting the ball out wide'.

Ireland certainly used Murray in a much wider role than before in the 6N. Generally Heaslip was hitting rucks, SOB was used close in (particularly in the Scotland game where he got a ridiculous amount of bad ball to truck, and POM was used as a second receiver a little bit wider out.

CatFromHue

I don't think saying POM plays in the HEC and Murphy hasn't therefore POM is a better player is correct.

Leinster have Heaslip, SOB, McLaughlin, Jennings, Dom Ryan, Ruddock, and A'uva in the backrow whereas Munster have Coughlin, TOD, Stander, Ronan, Dave O Callaghan, and Paddy Butler.

There's a fairly big difference in competition for places between the two teams.

Ireland have capped Heaslip, SOB, McLaughlin, Jennings and Ruddock whereas only Ronan I think has an Ireland cap from the Munster back row.