Kenny says Public Sector workers no longer have job security.

Saab Ed

So public sector workers no longer have job security that normally comes with a public sector position. Well that's according to Enda Kenny today. Does that suggest it should be reflected upwards in their pay given that the usual security of their position is now gone! In fairness to public sector workers (which I'm not one of) theuve always been seen to sacrifice wages for security. If that's gone then why work for less, especially if -at the lower end of things- you can actually get better wages in the private sector.

No Joe Duffy "I know a fella in the public sector" crap now, this is not a public v private sector debate. This is a genuine look at how we might actually end up with nothing but the worst of the worst in the public sector.

mfceiling

*grabs popcorn and pulls laptop closer to chair*

Sarky

One would hope it just means "Do your job or get fired". Y'know, like it does in most jobs.

amacca

Eh what?, joe Duffy, public sector...this will go .....predictably

Dave!

Have you got a link? I don't see anything about this. I saw an article about Pat Rabbitte ruling out compulsory redundancies, however.

SEPT 23 1989

Welcome to the real world

amacca

Dave! wrote: »

Have you got a link? I don't see anything about this. I saw an article about Pat Rabbitte ruling out compulsory redundancies, however.

I think what was actually said was no job security without the protection of Croke park ... Renegotiation etc was not explicitly ruled out

true

Kenny is just getting fed up at public service workers, just as the troika and nearly everyone else is. They are among the highest paid public sector workers in the world at an average of 49k a year, and have a shorter working week and statistically much more sickies than the private sector, and golden pensions, so Kenny is right for once.

Odysseus

Was it not "If CP fails, then there will be no job security"? That was what I heard on the news. Usually saber rattling

amacca

true wrote: »

Kenny is just getting fed up at public service workers, just as the troika and nearly everyone else is. They are among the highest paid public sector workers in the world at an average of 49k a year, and have a shorter working week and statistically much more sickies than the private sector, and golden pensions, so Kenny is right for once.

Finally an objective poster without an axe to grind

maglite

Saab Ed wrote: »

you can actually get better wages in the private sector.

You're free to seek employment in any sector, the Pay should match the supply and quality.

Randall Floyd

Is this a threat on Kenny's part that the government may seek mandatory redundancies or something? Can't see that happening.

Saab Ed

maglite wrote: »

You're free to seek employment in any sector, the Pay should match the supply and quality.

Absolutely, but with the incentive of job security gone then what's the point! Some people did actually sacrifice wages for the security provided. I just can't see why anybody would join the public sector now unless you're utterly useles and unnemployable elsewhere.

Flimbos

Link

Seems to be Kenny's way of saying CP2 is the only show in town, and the savings have to be met.

amacca

Saab Ed wrote: »

Absolutely, but with the incentive of job security gone then what's the point! Some people did actually sacrifice wages for the security provided. I just can't see why anybody would join the public sector now unless you're utterly useles and unnemployable elsewhere.

Had it perhaps occurred to you there might be jobs in the public sector they would like to do that are not available or are in much more limited supply in the private sector?

Paramite Pie

true wrote: »

Kenny is just getting fed up at public service workers, just as the troika and nearly everyone else is. They are among the highest paid public sector workers in the world at an average of 49k a year, and have a shorter working week and statistically much more sickies than the private sector, and golden pensions, so Kenny is right for once.

I agree. It's virtually impossible to fire someone in the public service and some of them will take advantage of that. A job should only be secure if you do it right. This does not affect any genuine good workers out there as far as I can see.

I know a lad in the public service and the stories he's told me of the sheer incompetence he's witnessed is astonishing.

kowloon

Here's what I don't like: People talking about public sector (or private sector) like all jobs have equal terms. Some have it good, some are being royally screwed over, you can't just take the mean salary and paint everyone with that brush. The aim should be to try and be fair. Then again, rabble rabble rabble.

almighty1

Paramite Pie wrote: »

I know a lad in the public service and the stories he's told me of ............

Wow 16 posts before one of these arrived. Shocked it took this long

hfallada

My heart bleeds for them all. They no longer have the job security.

NOT!!! They still have pensions that according to Irish Times are worth 42% more than private sector workers for women and 38% for men. A lot of their wages dont in anyway reflect their skills or the hours they work. Im surprised Enda being a former teacher that he would harm his own people. But when he sees the back lash in the coming days his words will have been miss understood

almighty1

hfallada wrote: »

My heart bleeds for them all. They no longer have the job security.

NOT!!! They still have pensions that according to Irish Times are worth 42% more than private sector workers for women and 38% for men. A lot of their wages dont in anyway reflect their skills or the hours they work. Im surprised Enda being a former teacher that he would harm his own people. But when he sees the back lash in the coming days his words will have been miss understood

Do you have any ideas what % of public sector gross weekly wage goes on their pension? Really? Any idea?

Boombastic

Saab Ed wrote: »

S....................Does that suggest it should be reflected upwards in their pay given that the usual security of their position is now gone! In fairness to public sector workers (which I'm not one of) theuve always been seen to sacrifice wages for security. .........................

Is this a movie plot?

Odysseus

Saab Ed wrote: »

Absolutely, but with the incentive of job security gone then what's the point! Some people did actually sacrifice wages for the security provided. I just can't see why anybody would join the public sector now unless you're utterly useles and unnemployable elsewhere.

I have said this a number of times over the years here, I can earn more outside the service than inside. In fact I do take a certain amount of private work on each year to make up for the various cuts my PS wage has taken.

I stay there because the people I supply a service to cannot afford it privately, mostly of the HSE clients I see cannot afford professional help privately.

I only take up some private work to top up my wages, I know others in the same position. I would not have access to the same clients in the private sector.

There are many reason that have nothing got to do with money which motivate certain professionals to stay.

Einhard

Saab Ed wrote: »

I just can't see why anybody would join the public sector now unless you're utterly useles and unnemployable elsewhere.

Yeah, they should join or set up their own private army, navy, and police force. That'd work brilliantly.

true

Odysseus wrote: »

I have said this a number of times over the years here, I can earn more outside the service than inside.

I would find that difficult to believe, given that public sector wages are statistically nearly double per hour that in the private sector. Ash any one in the private sector, from cleaner to security personnell to admin staff to architect what they earn compared to their counterparts in the public sector - that is, if they still have a job at all...

Odysseus wrote: »

In fact I do take a certain amount of private work on each year to make up for the various cuts my PS wage has taken.

So you "double job". You already have a highly paid public sector job, and you are so greedy you take private sector work as well because of the low hours you work in the public sector. ( avg 32 hours per week )

Odysseus wrote: »

I only take up some private work to top up my wages, I know others in the same position. I would not have access to the same clients in the private sector.

thats immoral as you are doing a private sector worker out of work - many of whom are unemployed and struggling to keep their kids fed / mortgage paid.

Shame on you.

Saab Ed

Einhard wrote: »

Yeah, they should join or set up their own private army, navy, and police force. That'd work brilliantly.

If only it was that simple. You've missed my initial point completly. Joe Duffy thread is for you.

almighty1

true wrote: »

I would find that difficult to believe, given that public sector wages are statistically nearly double per hour that in the private sector. Ash any one in the private sector, from cleaner to security personnell to admin staff to architect what they earn compared to their counterparts in the public sector - that is, if they still have a job at all...

Prove it. And while you're at it.......see if it takes into account that public sector (as a ratio) are more qualified than the private sector.

funk-you

true wrote: »

thats immoral as you are doing a private sector worker out of work - many of whom are unemployed and struggling to keep their kids fed / mortgage paid.

Shame on you.

Shame? For working for a living? That's a bit OTT isn't it.

-Funk

amacca

true wrote: »

I would find that difficult to believe, given that public sector wages are statistically nearly double per hour that in the private sector. Ash any one in the private sector, from cleaner to security personnell to admin staff to architect what they earn compared to their counterparts in the public sector - that is, if they still have a job at all...


So you "double job". You already have a highly paid public sector job, and you are so greedy you take private sector work as well because of the low hours you work in the public sector. ( avg 32 hours per week )


thats immoral as you are doing a private sector worker out of work - many of whom are unemployed and struggling to keep their kids fed / mortgage paid.

Shame on you.

Ah ffs get off your high horse!

Also ..It's perfectly possible for many professionals to get paid more (and much more) in the private sector for the same work they do in the public sector

Sergeant

Need to plug that gap in the public finances. The money doesn't grow on trees. Bit of realpolitik coming to the fore.

opinion guy

true wrote: »

thats immoral as you are doing a private sector worker out of work - many of whom are unemployed and struggling to keep their kids fed / mortgage paid.

Shame on you.

Are trolls unionised ?

almighty1

Sergeant wrote: »

Need to plug that gap in the public finances. The money doesn't grow on trees. Bit of realpolitik coming to the fore.

I agree. But from everybody.

Cian92

I don't understand why anyone would go looking for a job in the Civil Service anymore, I work in the Private Sector and even now following the career path I am (accountancy) you will be paid much more in the Private Sector.

Surely if the idea of job security is to be taken away from those employees in the Public Sector they do have a point in arguing that they shouldn't have to take further cuts.

We were discussing this in my office a few weeks ago and the general consensus from my colleagues was that none of them would ever accept a job in the civil service due to the low wages that would be in store for them, not to mention the fact that they don't get half the perks we do, like free meals out, company cars, free newspapers, first class travel, performance related bonuses or even a Christmas bonus.

Steve O

This will help labour in the polls.

Odysseus

Cian92 wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would go looking for a job in the Civil Service anymore, I work in the Private Sector and even now following the career path I am (accountancy) you will be paid much more in the Private Sector.

Surely if the idea of job security is to be taken away from those employees in the Public Sector they do have a point in arguing that they shouldn't have to take further cuts.

We were discussing this in my office a few weeks ago and the general consensus from my colleagues was that none of them would ever accept a job in the civil service due to the low wages that would be in store for them, not to mention the fact that they don't get half the perks we do, like free meals out, company cars, free newspapers, first class travel, performance related bonuses or even a Christmas bonus.

All of the point you raised mean nothing to those who believe they pay my wages and that I should have to answer to them indivivdually because they pay taxes.

I thank them every night before I close my eyes, those wonderful taxpayers:pac:

Odysseus

true wrote: »

I would find that difficult to believe, given that public sector wages are statistically nearly double per hour that in the private sector. Ash any one in the private sector, from cleaner to security personnell to admin staff to architect what they earn compared to their counterparts in the public sector - that is, if they still have a job at all...


So you "double job". You already have a highly paid public sector job, and you are so greedy you take private sector work as well because of the low hours you work in the public sector. ( avg 32 hours per week )


thats immoral as you are doing a private sector worker out of work - many of whom are unemployed and struggling to keep their kids fed / mortgage paid.

Shame on you.

Ha, that is a good one.

I train for years to be able to practice, I continue to ensure that I supply my professional bodies with the CPD I have to undertake in order to practice; I pay tax on my earbing in both public and private services; and I'm good at my job because people come to me above others, and you say I'm immoral. You should go on stage.

What is wrong, did you make a bad career choice?

You keep saying that those in the public won't make a living in the private, I and many others do both,and we pay our taxes on both.

You can believe what you want, because judgeing fron your posts you certain do, but I have stated this for the past 3 years at least on here. It is not my fault I can earn a wage in either sector:rolleyes:

Death and Taxes

Saab Ed wrote: »

So public sector workers no longer have job security that normally comes with a public sector position. Well that's according to Enda Kenny today. Does that suggest it should be reflected upwards in their pay given that the usual security of their position is now gone! In fairness to public sector workers (which I'm not one of) theuve always been seen to sacrifice wages for security. If that's gone then why work for less, especially if -at the lower end of things- you can actually get better wages in the private sector.

No Joe Duffy "I know a fella in the public sector" crap now, this is not a public v private sector debate. This is a genuine look at how we might actually end up with nothing but the worst of the worst in the public sector.

Isn't that already the position?

almighty1

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Isn't that already the position?

Ok I know this is After Hours and anything (nearly) is accepted but that post is just moronic. Care to divulge what work you perform to the betterment of this country?

Fr_Dougal

Merely a Kenny soundbite, no need to get giddy, he's full of sh1t.

Jawgap

Sarky wrote: »

One would hope it just means "Do your job or get fired". Y'know, like it does in most jobs.

...except obviously the banks.

Generally, as a PS worker, I've no problem with compulsory redundancies as long as it's done fairly (no LIFO!!!), shapes service to need and the politicians stay out of it, so unsustainable outposts aren't maintained in place just to keep local TDs happy.

true wrote: »

Kenny is just getting fed up at public service workers, just as the troika and nearly everyone else is. They are among the highest paid public sector workers in the world at an average of 49k a year, and have a shorter working week and statistically much more sickies than the private sector, and golden pensions, so Kenny is right for once.

true wrote: »

I would find that difficult to believe, given that public sector wages are statistically nearly double per hour that in the private sector. Ash any one in the private sector, from cleaner to security personnell to admin staff to architect what they earn compared to their counterparts in the public sector - that is, if they still have a job at all...


So you "double job". You already have a highly paid public sector job, and you are so greedy you take private sector work as well because of the low hours you work in the public sector. ( avg 32 hours per week )


thats immoral as you are doing a private sector worker out of work - many of whom are unemployed and struggling to keep their kids fed / mortgage paid.

Shame on you.

Ah True, there ye are - I was getting worried. If you hadn't shown up for this thread I was going to leave a saucer of milk for you at the back door.

So a private sector worker taking on extra work is enterprising and hardworking but a PS worker doing the same thing is double-jobber who should hang their head in shame........interesting.

btw- I'll tell you what's immoral, your neglect of the apostrophe:pac:

Jawgap

WileyCoyote wrote: »

Isn't that already the position?

Yes.....

BUT.... the hoops you have to jump through to get rid of someone are ridiculous.

Grayson

Odysseus wrote: »

Ha, that is a good one.

I train for years to be able to practice, I continue to ensure that I supply my professional bodies with the CPD I have to undertake in order to practice; I pay tax on my earbing in both public and private services; and I'm good at my job because people come to me above others, and you say I'm immoral. You should go on stage.

What is wrong, did you make a bad career choice?

You keep saying that those in the public won't make a living in the private, I and many others do both,and we pay our taxes on both.

You can believe what you want, because judgeing fron your posts you certain do, but I have stated this for the past 3 years at least on here. It is not my fault I can earn a wage in either sector:rolleyes:

To be fair, there's a difference between what you do and what most people see as an average public sector employee. Doctors too generally earn more in the private sector. But what most people think of when they see a public sector employee is a middle management pen pusher type thing. Not a trained professional in a very specific job.

true

Grayson wrote: »

Not a trained professional in a very specific job.

not just a trained professional in a very specific job, but a trained professional in a very specific job which is in demand. For example, an architect or quantity surveyor nowadays earns much more in the public sector than the average one does in the private sector, if they are lucky enough to have a job at all. ( and over half of architects are unemployed in the country ).

I take dibs on the dole scrounger/single mother threads starting enmasse in mid June.

AH topics are on a never ending loop, aren't they?

noodler

almighty1 wrote: »

Prove it. And while you're at it.......see if it takes into account that public sector (as a ratio) are more qualified than the private sector.

Reports from the CSO and ECB both concluding that a PS pay premium exists in Ireland which is not explained by being more qualified.

Feel free to look them up.

true

Cian92 wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would go looking for a job in the Civil Service anymore,

because there are 400,000 unemployed, hundreds of thousands are emigrating or have emigrated. In addition, there are countless self-employed just hanging in there making f*** all money but who cannot get the dole as their partner is working or they have a (partially paid for ) house.....thus keeping the unemployment figures down.
Average public sector salary is 49k a year. You may be lucky enough to work in a career where you "don't understand why anyone would go looking for a job in the Civil Service anymore", but that says more about you and your profession than about anything else.

pragmatic1

Cian92 wrote: »

I don't understand why anyone would go looking for a job in the Civil Service anymore, I work in the Private Sector and even now following the career path I am (accountancy) you will be paid much more in the Private Sector.

Surely if the idea of job security is to be taken away from those employees in the Public Sector they do have a point in arguing that they shouldn't have to take further cuts.

We were discussing this in my office a few weeks ago and the general consensus from my colleagues was that none of them would ever accept a job in the civil service due to the low wages that would be in store for them, not to mention the fact that they don't get half the perks we do, like free meals out, company cars, free newspapers, first class travel, performance related bonuses or even a Christmas bonus.

Have you ever considered that you might have a very good private sector job? It's not all peaches and cream everywhere.

True, what is the average private sector salary? Now, I don't mean industrial wage but across the board, top to lowest ranking.

The public sector average you quote is based on salaries across the board, isn't it?

true

its been gone over numerous times, I am not getting it for you again, look it up on the excellent efficient government statistics website www.cso.ie

Indie18

true wrote: »

its been gone over numerous times, I am not getting it for you again, look it up on the excellent efficient government statistics website www.cso.ie

That's just lazy, you sure you aren't Public Sector?

padd b1975

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

I take dibs on the dole scrounger/single mother threads starting enmasse in mid June.

AH topics are on a never ending loop, aren't they?

You came to that conclusion having only joined in January?



Fair play.

Lord TSC

*Sigh*

I thought true's nonsense was over when the CP2 discussion topic fizzled out. This just seems to have set it off again, with a fresh batch of people to reply to him and feed his obviously OTT posts...