Croke Park deal to fail

handlemaster

I see Joan Burton has stated tha austerity has gone as far as it can go. This might be a reference to a government roll over

Jawgap

handlemaster wrote: »

I see Joan Burton has stated tha austerity has gone as far as it can go. This might be a reference to a government roll over

Could also be that the theoretical underpinning of austerity has been found to be flawed

johnnydeep

johnnydeep wrote: »

they wouldn't last a week in the private sector

More gutter from you. You do realise its very difficult to get rid of people in the private sector too. You try and sack someone without a shed load of evidence and documented reasons and you will be cleaned out in court for unfair dismissal.

handlemaster

Jawgap wrote: »

Could also be that the theoretical underpinning of austerity has been found to be flawed

True true.. lets borrow more and spend more , money is free

Galwayguy35

Gordon Stale Birthmark wrote: »

More gutter from you. You do realise its very difficult to get rid of people in the private sector too. You try and sack someone without a shed load of evidence and documented reasons and you will be cleaned out in court for unfair dismissal.

Not really.

2 lads were let go from our place last week, they were lazy fookers so no great loss but were seen on the cameras over a number of weeks not pulling their weight and the rest of us wouldn't put up with it so management got rid of them.

Maybe try it in the PS, root out the lazy ones, can't see why anyone would have an arguement with that.

HondaSami

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not really.

2 lads were let go from our place last week, they were lazy fookers so no great loss but were seen on the cameras over a number of weeks not pulling their weight and the rest of us wouldn't put up with it so management got rid of them.

Maybe try it in the PS, root out the lazy ones, can't see why anyone would have an arguement with that.

Obviously they had previous warnings otherwise it will be unfair dismissal.

Wanderer2010

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Not really.

2 lads were let go from our place last week, they were lazy fookers so no great loss but were seen on the cameras over a number of weeks not pulling their weight and the rest of us wouldn't put up with it so management got rid of them.

Maybe try it in the PS, root out the lazy ones, can't see why anyone would have an arguement with that.

You do know that most workplaces dont have the twin measures of strong management and cameras to monitor employees? Your workplace may be hard on slackers but there are hundreds of others who arent so you cant really say private sector employees are hauled over the coals for poor performance. You have already read other posts from private sector workers giving you examples of employees getting away with murder, my own place has managers who have no testicles (not female managers, just male ones who study their feet when any complaints about slackers are raised for dread of being accused of bullying etc) and the one person in the time I have been there who did get a warning had it thrown out on appeal!

Its just not good enough to claim that all public sector workers can slack off without consequence and all private sector workers are under pressure to perform, there are too many exceptions to both beliefs.

Galwayguy35

HondaSami wrote: »

Obviously they had previous warnings otherwise it will be unfair dismissal.

2 warnings, they didn't heed it so bye bye, easily done.

HondaSami

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

2 warnings, they didn't heed it so bye bye, easily done.

So it's not that easy to sack someone in the private sector after all, is it?
You would have us believe they just fling them out with no warnings.

Galwayguy35

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

You do know that most workplaces dont have the twin measures of strong management and cameras to monitor employees? Your workplace may be hard on slackers but there are hundreds of others who arent so you cant really say private sector employees are hauled over the coals for poor performance. You have already read other posts from private sector workers giving you examples of employees getting away with murder, my own place has managers who have no testicles (not female managers, just male ones who study their feet when any complaints about slackers are raised for dread of being accused of bullying etc) and the one person in the time I have been there who did get a warning had it thrown out on appeal!

Its just not good enough to claim that all public sector workers can slack off without consequence and all private sector workers are under pressure to perform, there are too many exceptions to both beliefs.

Well it's up to management to grow a pair and get rid of poorly preforming employees then isn't it?

Time for management in both sectors to do the job they are paid for.

Galwayguy35

HondaSami wrote: »

So it's not that easy to sack someone in the private sector after all, is it?
You would have us believe they just fling them out with no warnings.

Never said that so please don't put words in my mouth.

Have any of the lazy people in your workplace got warnings for not doing their job?

HondaSami

Galwayguy35 wrote: »

Never said that so please don't put words in my mouth.

Have any of the lazy people in your workplace got warnings for not doing their job?

It's kinda what you implied.

Yes warnings are given but it's not the type of thing you broadcast, it's hard to know what disciplinary action anyone gets/has got but it's definitely changed in the last while.
I know one person who was let go.

Wanderer2010

I know you arent addressing me but in my place, No. Not one for being lazy and slacking off, despite causing other people more work and creating hassle for everyone. Management just back off and hope for the best. Its easy to say that managers should just do their job but its not as black and white as that, some managers just dont have it in them to discipline people, some workers will ride the system for all its worth. If answers to performance issues were easy there wouldnt be any! Its a problem in both sectors though.

UCDVet

joe swanson wrote: »

So why attach these links to these threads when they are not relevant to the thread. In order to cast aspersions.

I didn't mean to cast aspersions. I didn't read the whole thread and it's possible I didn't understand the context I was posting into...and it might have sounded like I was attacking you or siding with someone else.

I'd just remembered reading about the US police applicant who sued and thought it was very similar.

My apologies if I came across in the wrong way.

Galwayguy35

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

I know you arent addressing me but in my place, No. Not one for being lazy and slacking off, despite causing other people more work and creating hassle for everyone. Management just back off and hope for the best. Its easy to say that managers should just do their job but its not as black and white as that, some managers just dont have it in them to discipline people, some workers will ride the system for all its worth. If answers to performance issues were easy there wouldnt be any! Its a problem in both sectors though.

Maybe in a bigger workplace it's harder to keep an eye on the slackers, we have a small workforce and it's hard physical labour so if someone is taking the mick we don't be long shouting about it to management.

Means Of Escape

Jawgap wrote: »

Could also be that the theoretical underpinning of austerity has been found to be flawed

You cannot tax a country out of a recession .

Means Of Escape

Jawgap wrote: »

It's easy enough to estimate a population size from a sample....


http://m.circ.ahajournals.org/content/114/5/445.full

so what's your estimate?

You think the census done recently is in any way accurate?
What margin of error would you add to their results? 10 percent? 20 ?
However the roll out of the National ID card may help.

woodoo

Grayson wrote: »

Bollocks.

people are stating that the private sector is rougher and tougher than the public service. And that private sector workers have higher responsabilities for the same wages. I believe that is the exact opposite of "can do no wrong".

Rubbish grayson, i know what i have been reading about the private sector. As if any sort of dossing or wrong doing or incompetence is punished by sackings etc. Its just not the case.

johnnydeep

woodoo wrote: »

Rubbish grayson, i know what i have been reading about the private sector. As if any sort of dossing or wrong doing or incompetence is punished by sackings etc. Its just not the case.

definetly. its well known that private companies that make money by getting maximum work for the least amount of money actively encourage slacking. sure they would love they pay you 6 moths sick leave or give you a year long career break. in these recessionary times laziness has become compulsory with the usual bonuses etc.

woodoo

johnnydeep wrote: »

definetly. its well known that private companies that make money by getting maximum work for the least amount of money actively encourage slacking. sure they would love they pay you 6 moths sick leave or give you a year long career break. in these recessionary times laziness has become compulsory with the usual bonuses etc.

Career breaks were no problem in the private sector company i worked in. A number of people went to Australia and came back a year later to work. When are you finished college anyway johnny

ToddyDoody

If I could add.. I thought it was Crow Park until about age 11 / 12.

true

true wrote: »

take a Garda, the lad who left school in 1983 and who retired recently on full pension. Not overly bright, not overly qualified with his pass leaving cert. I think its fair to call him the middle ranks. Yet he retires with a pension pot worth €1,100,000.00
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-pension-worth-11m-26518918.html
What person from the private sector can - and does - retire with that size pension pot after 30 years service?

My question remains unanswered. Forget Willie Walsh or other businessmen or outstanding "one in a hundred thousand" individuals. Pensions are an area where huge savings can be made. Change the constitution if need be, but the money is just not there. How about suspending all pensions until age 65 or 68?
There are public servants in their forties in this country getting six figure pensions ( above €100,000 per year).

Pappa Charlie

true wrote: »

My question remains unanswered. Forget Willie Walsh or other businessmen or outstanding "one in a hundred thousand" individuals. Pensions are an area where huge savings can be made. Change the constitution if need be, but the money is just not there. How about suspending all pensions until age 65 or 68?
There are public servants in their forties in this country getting six figure pensions ( above €100,000 per year).

Great idea, you're so smart you would fail any public sector aptitude test!!!!!

true

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Great idea, you're so smart you would fail any public sector aptitude test!!!!!

I was correcting someone who made the astonishing claim that "The myth of generous pensions applies only at the top of the PS (the ex-Taoisigh, former SecGens, and Deputy SecGens) - once you get down to the middle ranks, the pension benefits are slightly worse than you'd get privately, if you made the same level of contributions"

My point is that even "ordinary, middle rank" public servants like Gardai get massive public sector pensions.

Pappa Charlie

true wrote: »

I was correcting someone who made the astonishing claim that "The myth of generous pensions applies only at the top of the PS (the ex-Taoisigh, former SecGens, and Deputy SecGens) - once you get down to the middle ranks, the pension benefits are slightly worse than you'd get privately, if you made the same level of contributions"

My point is that even "ordinary, middle rank" public servants like Gardai get massive public sector pensions.

Maybe you would tell us what you actually work at seeing as you are constantly refering to gardai nurses and teachers and running them down. Let us have an opinion on your occupation or are you going to hide behind your computer!

Odysseus

true wrote: »

How about suspending all pensions until age 65 or 68?
There are public servants in their forties in this country getting six figure pensions ( above €100,000 per year).

If they are claiming when they are in their forties after 30 years service how old where they when they joined up? How many does this apply to?

Also if what happens to a worker if you force them to retire after 30 years but you don't allow them to claim their pension?

Am I wrong in that you have to retire after your full service? I don't think they allow Garda to serve after a certain age or I am wrong?

true

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

Maybe you would tell us what you actually work at seeing as you are constantly refering to gardai nurses and teachers and running them down.

This thread is about public sector pay. Its about the" Croke Park" negotiations.

I do not single out gardai nurses and teachers : all public servants are included eg admin staff, librarians, vets, architects, pen-pushers, manual workers etc.

As Shane Ross is currently saying on the tv right now, the 1000 quangos should be cut down to 100.

The public servants who are retiring with their average lump sum tax free og 87,000.00 should have that cut etc.

My work is not relevant ias the taxpayer does not fund me. I fund the public sector, along with many many others, who demand better value for money.

Pappa Charlie

true wrote: »

This thread is about public sector pay. Its about the" Croke Park" negotiations.

I do not single out gardai nurses and teachers : all public servants are included eg admin staff, librarians, vets, architects, pen-pushers, manual workers etc.

As Shane Ross is currently saying on the tv right now, the 1000 quangos should be cut down to 100.

The public servants who are retiring with their average lump sum tax free og 87,000.00 should have that cut etc.

My work is not relevant ias the taxpayer does not fund me. I fund the public sector, along with many many others, who demand better value for money.

Typical cop out, you are ashamed to mention it because you know you'll be taken apart! Credibility gone, goodnight!

true

Nope, this thread is supposed to be about discussion relevant to the thread. I never asked any other poster what they worked at, and what I work at is none of your business.
Now , back to topic for you, and answer my question, like a good man.

Pappa Charlie

true wrote: »

Nope, this thread is supposed to be about discussion relevant to the thread. I never asked any other poster what they worked at, and what I work at is none of your business.
Now , back to topic for you, and answer my question, like a good man.

Credibility gone, off to the knitting forum please!