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Boston Bombing

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    #332
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Jihadi Terrorist

    Suicide-bombing. Happening earlier when the elite runners were competing and the crowds were vastly larger. Maximum damage and instant martyrdom.

    Chechen Nationalist Terrorist

    Attacks Russia.

    Obscure, uncertain motivated terrorist who wants to survive the attack and not get caught

    Has an escape plan that doesn't involve going to school, going to parties, going to the gym, killing a police man for no apparent reason and hiding in a boat until you are found.

    Does wear a disguise when planting the bomb. Shaves his distinctive curly hair. Grows a beard. Has an escape route pre-planned. Has fake passports. Has a pile of cash and gets out of dodge as quickly as possible.

    Mercenary Terrorist

    Follows orders.

    And what are you basing these assertions on exactly? Can you cite examples of legitimate attacks in America involving each of these and show that this is exactly what they did?


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    #333
    Killinator
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭Killinator


    King Mob wrote: »
    And what are you basing these assertions on exactly? Can you cite examples of legitimate attacks in America involving each of these and show that this is exactly what they did?

    Whoa now!........ let's not bring proof into this! ;)


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    #334
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Killinator wrote: »
    Whoa now!........ let's not bring proof into this! ;)
    nah, proof is good. Especially the kind of proof that you said you already had such as footage of the chechens planting the bombs and ALSO sticking around to enjoy the show.


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    #335
    Killinator
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭Killinator


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    nah, proof is good. Especially the kind of proof that you said you already had such as footage of the chechens planting the bombs and ALSO sticking around to enjoy the show.
    That was my first post in this thread so I haven't said anything, I don't remember anyone posting they had proof if the above,
    That said I'm not expecting an email from the FBI detailing their entire investigation and every bit of footage they have...because it's an active investigation.


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    #336
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,642 ✭✭✭✭briany


    I fully believe that it was the accused who did it. What I can't believe is that they were naive enough to think they'd be anonymous. Had they never heard of CCTV? Did they think they were going to vaporize the entire block along with everyone and everything in it thereby negating any possibility of evidence recovery?

    I can kind of understand the logic in staying because of they were trying to hide in plain sight or at least not arouse suspicion or concern by suddenly disappearing in the wake of the bombings but they showed no sign of contingency planning. How could you not think there'd be a chance of being seen? How could that not factor into the planning? I really don't get that.

    I'm not trying to constructively critique the bombers in a ghoulish way like some sort of terrorism pundit. That would be sick. People are dead. It just makes me wonder why, when they'd obviously put time, effort and thinking into making the bombs, picking a target etc. etc. they just overlook this glaringly obvious flaw in their plan.


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    #337
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Killinator wrote: »
    That was my first post in this thread so I haven't said anything, I don't remember anyone posting they had proof if the above,
    That said I'm not expecting an email from the FBI detailing their entire investigation and every bit of footage they have...because it's an active investigation.

    I'm sorry by "you" I meant the FBI. I understand how it would confuse you. They said in their major press conference that they had footage of one of the two planting the bomb. It was only working backwards from this according to them that the second suspect was linked. The reason they didn't show it at the time according to them is that they didn't want to make people angry...and hand out justice themselves. That is not possible now.


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    #338
    Killinator
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭Killinator


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I'm sorry by "you" I meant the FBI. I understand how it would confuse you. They said in their major press conference that they had footage of one of the two planting the bomb. It was only working backwards from this according to them that the second suspect was linked. The reason they didn't show it at the time according to them is that they didn't want to make people angry...and hand out justice themselves. That is not possible now.
    You don't have an automatic right to that footage.
    The FBI will release what they feel is needed, and for now the only reason to release it is to quash one of about a dozen flimsy conspiracies on this bombing alone, I'm sure they've better things to do then worrying about these automatic conspiracy theories popping up.

    Hell even if they do release it it wont be good enough, the suspects engaging in a firefight and car chase with police doesn't seem evidence enough so what good is some video footage, for crying out loud there are people who think every bit of 9/11 footage is fake, so no doubt it wouldn't be long before theories popped up about fake videos and photoshops anyway!


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    #339
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Killinator wrote: »
    You don't have an automatic right to that footage.
    The FBI will release what they feel is needed, and for now the only reason to release it is to quash one of about a dozen flimsy conspiracies on this bombing alone, I'm sure they've better things to do then worrying about automatic conspiracy theories popping up.
    For a start there are two very important reasons to release the footage - 1 dead man and 1 dying teenager who are innocent until proven guilty. The footage would go a long way towards proving the guilt of one and implicating the other.
    Killinator wrote: »
    Hell even if they do release it it wont be good enough, the suspects engaging in a firefight and car chase with police doesn't seem evidence enough do what good US some
    That is not evidence they planted any bombs. It is evidence of a firefight and a car chase and the only evidence I've seen of that personally is a mangled corpse that was leaked by the police. No mysterious phantom burials at sea for this Muslim or concern of publishing the image of the corpse.

    If you were innocent of a crime and you knew the security forces were trying to frame you what would you do? Go to the same people who were trying to set you up and tell them you are innocent?


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    #340
    Killinator
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭Killinator


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    For a start there are two very important reasons to release the footage - 1 dead man and 1 dying teenager who are innocent until proven guilty. The footage would go a long way towards proving the guilt of one and implicating the other.
    Proving guilt will be done on trial like most other cases, it's an ongoing case, they were at pains repeating that in nearly all press conferences.
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    No mysterious phantom burials at sea for this Muslim or concern of publishing the image
    If you were innocent of a crime and you knew the security forces were trying to frame you what would you do? Go to the same people who were trying to set you up and tell them you are innocent?

    No, getting into a firefight and chucking explosives seems a much more plausible solution to there problems!
    Yep, cant see how that could end badly for either of them.

    What do you want, bullet for bullet footage, do you also want footage of the executed police officer being killed, honestly, how much is enough 'proof'?


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    #341
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    For a start there are two very important reasons to release the footage - 1 dead man and 1 dying teenager who are innocent until proven guilty. The footage would go a long way towards proving the guilt of one and implicating the other.
    Which they do in court, not by releasing the video to the general public.
    In fact that's a decent reason to not release the video until a trial so as not to influence potential juries.
    I think you'd agree that authorities should care more about due process than about satisfying the curiosity of random people on the internet who would not be convinced by the footage anyway.

    If they released the footage, would you accept the non-conspiracy explanations? Do you think that many conspiracy theorists would?
    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    If you were innocent of a crime and you knew the security forces were trying to frame you what would you do? Go to the same people who were trying to set you up and tell them you are innocent?
    Any and all news agencies.
    The internet.
    A public place with lots of cameras so you can show yourself surrendering peacefully.


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    #342
    Brown Bomber
    Site Banned Posts: 8,331 ✭✭✭Brown Bomber


    Killinator wrote: »
    Proving guilt will be done on trial like most other cases, it's an ongoing case, they were at pains repeating that in nearly all press conferences.
    Well the older brother won't be getting any trial, will he?

    Under the NDAA anyone US citizen can be held indefinitely without trial. Nevermind Guantanamo and Obama's personal kill list - which has already killed US citizens.
    Killinator wrote: »
    No, getting into a firefight and chucking explosives seems a much more plausible solution to there problems!
    Yep, cant see how that could end badly for either of them. .

    Can you provide any evidence of them initiating any firefight or throwing explosives?
    Killinator wrote: »
    What do you want, bullet for bullet footage, do you also want footage of the executed police officer being killed, honestly, how much is enough 'proof'?
    I've told you what I want and there is absolutely no reason not to release it - the footage of the younger brother putting his backpack down at the bomb site and then walking away.

    Why did they kill police man on the MIT campus while at the same time trying to keep a low profile? He died in his car. It was apparently a unprovoked attack.

    Are you of the opinion that the state can simply declare someone guilty on evidence that they won't make publically available and have armed men track them down to capture/kill them?


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    #343
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,232 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Why did they kill police man on the MIT campus while at the same time trying to keep a low profile? He died in his car. It was apparently a unprovoked attack.
    Why was he killed then in the conspiracy version of events?
    Why did the conspirators kill a cop randomly when it shows the story they are fabricating doesn't make sense?
    Why then do they release information that apparently shows the this particular bit of the story doesn't make sense? If you think that the attack was unprovoked as per the police report and that this doesn't mesh with the notion that they are trying to keep a low profile, thus calling it into question, why did the police mention that detail at all?

    It's all well and good to try and poke holes, but you can't actually fill those holes in with bigger holes.


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    #344
    Anynama141
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    1 - I'm sure you are familiar that a "fundamentalism Muslim" and a "Muslim extremist" are not the same thing?
    2 - No evidence has been provided yet that he bombed anyone.
    That post was tongue-in-cheek, but to be fair it does look like there is a prima facie case for him to answer with regard to the bombings. If the authorities have the footage of him or his brother leaving the bombs, I think we can agree that it looks pretty bad.


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    #345
    Anynama141
    Closed Accounts Posts: 964 ✭✭✭Anynama141


    Killinator wrote: »
    The FBI will release what they feel is needed, and for now the only reason to release it is to quash one of about a dozen flimsy conspiracies on this bombing alone, I'm sure they've better things to do then worrying about these automatic conspiracy theories popping up.
    I'd love to believe that if they release the footage, the weird conspiracy theories will stop.

    They won't - the conspiracy theories will just be modified and will carry on. There's tons of footage of different types from different sources of the 9/11 attacks - but still people are convinced missiles/holograms/HAARP/whatever did it.


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    #346
    JustinDee
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,684 ✭✭✭JustinDee


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    For a start there are two very important reasons to release the footage - 1 dead man and 1 dying teenager who are innocent until proven guilty. The footage would go a long way towards proving the guilt of one and implicating the other
    They don't have to prove anything to you. They have to prove it to the judiciary.


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    #347
    Penn
    Registered Users Posts: 33,446 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    JustinDee wrote: »
    They don't have to prove anything to you. They have to prove it to the judiciary.

    This is a discussion forum for Conspiracy Theories which means people are perfectly allowed to discuss a conspiracy theory. If you have a problem with that, PM me or simply don't post.

    To Everyone: DO NOT make this discussion personal. Discuss the theories, not other posters. If you can't do that, remove yourself from the thread.


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    #348
    seanmacc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭seanmacc




    Nevada Governor Candidate David Lory Vanderbeek reckons the DHS did it.

    Then again, all Mr. Vanderbeek does is be a home keyboard warrior conspiracy theorist. He is highly influential though getting 49,000 votes in the Senate elections despite having no money and zero media coverage.


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    #349
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    I think his fundamentalist Muslim clothes were in the wash that day.

    Information we have so far is that he was Muslim. I've never seen a picture of him wearing anything other than normal clothes.

    His brother has been generally conveyed by friends and acquaintances as a very nice out-going guy, good athlete, very popular and all that.


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    #350
    seanmacc
    Closed Accounts Posts: 771 ✭✭✭seanmacc


    http://rt.com/op-edge/boston-bombers-tsarnaev-brothers-172/

    An RT article with the parents alleging that the two suspects were set up among a few other points


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    #351
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Well the older brother won't be getting any trial, will he?

    Because he's dead. I am pretty sure when you reportedly start shooting at police they will shoot you back. Very quickly.

    They are well within their rights to do so.
    Under the NDAA anyone US citizen can be held indefinitely without trial. Nevermind Guantanamo and Obama's personal kill list - which has already killed US citizens.

    If you are a US citizen and you undertake militant activity, these controversial laws may be used against you.
    Can you provide any evidence of them initiating any firefight or throwing explosives?

    Police and press reports.

    Can you provide evidence it didn't happen?
    I've told you what I want and there is absolutely no reason not to release it - the footage of the younger brother putting his backpack down at the bomb site and then walking away.

    You aren't entitled to this information. Just wait till the trial.
    Why did they kill police man on the MIT campus while at the same time trying to keep a low profile? He died in his car. It was apparently a unprovoked attack.

    Wait for the full information. Apparently, he discovered the two men with explosives on MIT campus and was shot.

    Perhaps they were they to plant bombs etc

    Or perhaps it was all a giant conspiracy false flag to place them there.
    Are you of the opinion that the state can simply declare someone guilty on evidence that they won't make publically available and have armed men track them down to capture/kill them?

    They said these suspects were wanted for the bombing, released photos of them (have you ever watched Crime Watch?), told the public not to approach. The next night there is a very violent encounter with the police and a huge manhunt gets underway.


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    #352
    Sin City
    Registered Users Posts: 2,375 ✭✭✭Sin City


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Because he's dead. I am pretty sure when you reportedly start shooting at police they will shoot you back. Very quickly.


    Was he killed by gunshot (police) or by being run over by his brother

    Im hearing different account about his death


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    #353
    AnonoBoy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,559 ✭✭✭✭AnonoBoy


    Brown Bomber wrote: »
    Well the older brother won't be getting any trial, will he?

    He isn't. But he might have reached a courtroom if the younger brother hadn't run him over with a car.


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    #354
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Sin City wrote: »
    Was he killed by gunshot (police) or by being run over by his brother

    Im hearing different account about his death

    And that he was wearing some sort of explosive vest or explosives went off.

    We don't know all the details yet, perhaps he was shot by police then run over by the brother in his attempt to get away. Perhaps he was clipped by the car.

    We'll find out.


    100% proof seems to be required in this situation, yet I don't remember the same questioning regarding the same media reporting a large gun and bomb attack in Iraq.. or the sinking of the Costa Concordia.. and so on.


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    #355
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    More info about the FBI questioning of Tamerlan

    It was a request from another country, that country has since been revealed to be Russia in 2011.


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    #356
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,937 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    And that he was wearing some sort of explosive vest or explosives went off.

    We don't know all the details yet, perhaps he was shot by police then run over by the brother in his attempt to get away. Perhaps he was clipped by the car.

    We'll find out.


    100% proof seems to be required in this situation, yet I don't remember the same questioning regarding the same media reporting a large gun and bomb attack in Iraq.. or the sinking of the Costa Concordia.. and so on.
    I didn't hear he was strapped up but i did hear he had a detonator device on his person, hence the lock down.


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    #357
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Ash.J.Williams wrote: »
    I didn't hear he was strapped up but i did hear he had a detonator device on his person, hence the lock down.

    According to police reports, they had a lot of bomb ordinance on them when stopped in MIT


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    #358
    Addle
    Registered Users Posts: 4,812 ✭✭✭Addle


    They don't seem to have brought the elder brothers wife in for questioning.
    I'd have thought anyone close to the suspects would be rounded up at this stage.


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    #359
    Killinator
    Registered Users Posts: 3,502 ✭✭✭Killinator


    Addle wrote: »
    They don't seem to have brought the elder brothers wife in for questioning.
    I'd have thought anyone close to the suspects would be rounded up at this stage.
    She lawyered up apparently but the lawyer said she would be cooperating with the investigation.
    Heard this on PK show on rte1 radio this morning


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    #360
    darced
    Registered Users Posts: 7,056 ✭✭✭darced


    This post has been deleted.


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    #361
    briany
    Registered Users Posts: 13,642 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Killinator wrote: »
    She lawyered up apparently but the lawyer said she would be cooperating with the investigation.
    Heard this on PK show on rte1 radio this morning

    I'd have thought she'd be in too much shock and grief to round the legal wagons before the authorities got to her. I'd imagine she already had a fairly keen lawyer who did all the running re: preparation.


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