Does Anti-austeriry really annoy anyone else?

DaithiMa

There isn't any other way to do it? Well that is what we were told-both by our current and previous governments-and by the IMF and the ECB. But alas, it seems the people were deceived yet again.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/austerity-was-wrong-option-for-ireland-says-former-imf-chief-29191181.html

This article alone, in my opinion, justifies any protest/march or moaning. People who have been claiming that there is/was no alternative to brutal austerity need to get real. Enda has come out and said in reply that 'hindsight is a wonderful thing', but yet his government still blindly pursue the same policies that have failed/are failing. If we protested more maybe they would have realised that austerity is a beaten docket sooner.

El Spearo

El Spearo wrote: »

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0413/381224-5-000-people-attend-anti-austerity-march/

This kind of marching etc really bugs me. The St Paddy's day parade in KK was dire enough, but at the very end these kind of eejits came up along at the end to ruin a family day with politics.

The whole thing annoys me. Marching around with the tri colour trying to incite a rebellion against the government. You'd swear we had it hard in this country.

I accept this is going to be a very unpopular post, but I just wish there were more people who just got on with it.

Marching is only affective if it is well supported. 5,000 people waving red cards are not in any way representative of the population. Ah, shur, they need an ould day out and a bit of exercise.

hatrickpatrick

Deleted User wrote: »

Marching is only affective if it is well supported. 5,000 people waving red cards are not in any way representative of the population. Ah, shur, they need an ould day out and a bit of exercise.

Why aren't more people supporting it?

Honestly, you'd have to walk a thousand miles to find someone who actually approved of corruption such as the Bertie saga mentioned above. Why then are so few actually coming out to put pressure on our government to stop f*cking around and actually do something about it?

keelanj69

The way some posters go on you'd think they were loading their guns and about to storm Dail Eireann. I look forward to seeing some of their names come next GE.

hatrickpatrick

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Why aren't more people supporting it?

Honestly, you'd have to walk a thousand miles to find someone who actually approved of corruption such as the Bertie saga mentioned above. Why then are so few actually coming out to put pressure on our government to stop f*cking around and actually do something about it?

People are not protesting, because there is nothing to protest about! We are in deep doodoo and the only way out of it is to tighten our belts and sit it out. Banging on about banks and politicians huge salaries will get us no where. I won't go so far as to say they deserve every cent, but would you do it for any less? The majority of people are just getting on with things, same as we always did. We're not alone in this recession. It's worldwide. A bit of realism is all thats needed. We WILL get through this and be the stronger for it.

gutteruu

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

Fair enough. How much more would we have to spend on worthwhile things if we stopped pouring money into bankers' pensions and salaries, and cut people like Bertie Ahern,....

Seriously, how can you possibly be ok with that?

People spend most of the time moaning about politicians salaries/pensions which add up to about 15 million. While the bailout cost about 80 Billion. Do they make to much, of course they do. but its so unbelievable miniscule in the grand scheme of things. Somehow people think cutting politicians wages will fix everything.

Try it. Put them on minimum wage and see how honest they become then. See how beyond reproach they become. Ask Haughey, Burke, Lawlor and the boys did they feel good about their normal salary back then.

professore

Considering the circumstances, I think the current government are doing a great job. Protesting about austerity is like protesting about being poor. Most of the stickers I see about not paying the property tax are on 2012 and 2013 cars.

Where the hell are we going to get the money from to change the austerity programme anyway? Living within your means is what it should be called.

mikom

professore wrote: »

Most of the stickers I see about not paying the property tax are on 2012 and 2013 cars.

That's funny................ ya know how the poor haven't got a car to put sticker on for you to see.....

keelanj69

mikom wrote: »

That's funny................ ya know how the poor haven't got a car to put sticker on for you to see.....

Sweet jesus.

mikom

keelanj69 wrote: »

Sweet jesus.

Indeed........... http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=583777&date_to=&date_from=&query=*%3A*&forum=861

The cuts will reach everyone.

keelanj69

mikom wrote: »

Indeed........... http://www.boards.ie/search/submit/?user=583777&date_to=&date_from=&query=*%3A*&forum=861

Yes.?. I have very little money. Less than most. And a serious uncurable illness. Yet I live in reality. Poor people have cars. My posts dont change that.
Maybe I should moan about cutbacks in health etc but truth is Irelands not that bad. I'd be dead if not for the specilist care I got despite cutbacks. People work hard and make do with what they have and get what they can afford. Its called being clever.

mikom

keelanj69 wrote: »

Yes.?. I have very little money. Less than most. And a serious uncurable illness. Yet I live in reality. Poor people have cars. My posts dont change that.
Maybe I should moan about cutbacks in health etc but truth is Irelands not that bad. I'd be dead if not for the specilist care I got despite cutbacks. People work hard and make do with what they have and get what they can afford. Its called being clever.

Sorry to hear about the incurable illness.
My point is that you should not moan about those moaning, as many of them do not want to get into your situation, and be forced to survive and cope with less money and health services than you are receiving now.
Can you blame them?

Fattes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fattes
Austerity is made up word by people who like to spend other peoples money to get what they want. If you can only spend what you have its called budgeting.
Fair enough. How much more would we have to spend on worthwhile things if we stopped pouring money into bankers' pensions and salaries, and cut people like Bertie Ahern, cited by a tribunal as a potential crook, off from totally unwarranted perks and expenses which he is still receiving despite no longer actually working for us?

Seriously, how can you possibly be ok with that?

You are making a lot of assumptions in that last sentence I made no statment or wording that could possibly lead anyone to assume my position on it so keep your opinions to your posts.

Our states biggest expenditure items are Social Welfare, Health Service, and Public Service pay, the bank bailout and political pay are not our biggest budgetary issue.

keelanj69

mikom wrote: »

Sorry to hear about the incurable illness.
My point is that you should not moan about those moaning, as many of them do not want to get into your situation.
Can you blame them.

Ah. It's grand. I do agree that those at the top should show solidarity. What I dont like is Ireland being compared to a third world countey on this site. It's still a great place.

John.Icy

What are you smoking OP? Ireland has it incredibly hard!

Now I'm out of this silly thread, I have some Sky to watch, on one of the many TV's in my home. I also have some browsing to do using my broadband. After all that energy spent I may get some nice clean healthy water that won't kill me or my family. And if I'm bored, I might head out and have a few pints with friends.

Oh how my hard life is not worth living.

mikom

keelanj69 wrote: »

Ah. It's grand. I do agree that those at the top should show solidarity. What I dont like is Ireland being compared to a third world countey on this site. It's still a great place.

Slippage often happens without you noticing.
Maybe the protesters are feeling the ground move before others.

John.Icy wrote: »

What are you smoking OP? Ireland has it incredibly hard!

Now I'm out of this silly thread, I have some Sky to watch, on one of the many TV's in my home. I also have some browsing to do using my broadband. After all that energy spent I may get some nice clean healthy water that won't kill me or my family. And if I'm bored, I might head out and have a few pints with friends.

Oh how my hard life is not worth living.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST-2ZWGgMmo

♫
“I’m all right, Jack, I’m okay, That is the message for today.
So count up your lolly, feather your nest, Let someone else worry, boy I couldn’t care less.
You scratch my back; I’ll do the same for you, Jack, That is the message for today”.
.
.

hfallada

Austerity isnt working

Oh waits hasnt the cost of borrowing fallen from like 15 % to 3.9% for the government since the cut backs and tax increases have started. What do people want us to do. Keep borrowing to fund services which arent sustainable anyway and **** up future generations with massive amounts of debt.

We have bailed out the banks, bondholders build a ****ing bridge and get over it

mikom

hfallada wrote: »

We have bailed out the banks, bondholders build a ****ing bridge and get over it

Stick a toll on it while you are at it for all the 2012 and 2013 cars covered in stickers on their way to the soup kitchens in Galway and Athlone

KyussBishop

There was a fair amount of fraud committed in the run up to the crisis, and nobody has been punished and put in jail for these crimes.
They are, effectively, above the law because nobody will prosecute them (one set of laws for me and you, another for those with monied/politically-connected interests; a two-tiered system); is this alone, not something worth protesting about? (nobody has any problems here?)

It's everyone else dealing with the consequences of their actions (the people involved with stoking the property bubble), with them hardly being affected at all; being insulated in fact, due to many of the same people participating in creating this crisis, getting ridiculous salaries, bonuses and pensions.

What isn't worth protesting over, about that?


Most of the people who are ardently against protesting, don't give a toss about any alternatives, they usually are backing a pet economic theory (typically constructed by right-wing think tanks, who want mass privatization and the destruction of welfare/labour powers, which just so happens to make private rent-seeking extraordinarily easy), or work in (or are moving to work in) an area where they benefit from austerity policies.

Usually they care most about shouting down alternatives, or pouring condescension upon them to try and undermine their credibility (as well as discouraging protests, that may undermine their beliefs or interests); the ones who don't do this out of consciously malign motives, typically do it out of tribal loyalty to their pet economic theories, a bit like the tribalistic loyalties you get with football supporters.

Others who aren't that much interested in economics, often just view right-wing 'lefty/hippy/crusty' bashing as edgy in some form or other, when it's really just small-minded; an ignorant way of avoiding exercising the few brain cells needed, to consider someones actual arguments.

That kind of lefty bashing is actually the perfect example of the tribalism: Turn off all braincells and engage in bashing, so other right-wing cohorts can join in, and you can try to 'win' the discussion through social-reinforcement; it's exactly this kind of escape from logical thinking, which allows them to cement their own views in even deeper, through social reinforcement and confirmation bias, and ignoring all criticism.

Mr.David

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

How much more would we have to spend on worthwhile things if we stopped pouring money into bankers' pensions and salaries

F*ck all really if you actually stop to think about it.

pragmatic1

Shamozzle wrote: »

So you like paying taxes?

No one does but it's a necessary evil. We've been getting away with paying low taxes for years in this country because of populist ****e.

Because we're such a small nation we're going to have to pay through the nose for our services.

pragmatic1

hfallada wrote: »

Austerity isnt working

Oh waits hasnt the cost of borrowing fallen from like 15 % to 3.9% for the government since the cut backs and tax increases have started. What do people want us to do. Keep borrowing to fund services which arent sustainable anyway and **** up future generations with massive amounts of debt.

We have bailed out the banks, bondholders build a ****ing bridge and get over it

Spot on. Some people are ****in idiots and they'll likely be voting back in FF next election.

MMAGirl

Its Austerity for everyone else. Not for me.
As long as everyone else pays more, so I can pay less, then its working

IM0

Grimreaper666 wrote: »

We have it hard thanks to constant bad decisions our over paid politicians are making.

tell us what you would be doing different?

St.Spodo

You see, money is getting transferred from social services to banks and as a result, the quality of life for many people has declined significantly. These people are not responsible for the financial mess, and thus feel aggrieved at having to pay for it. If you're annoyed by anti-austerity marches, I'd suggest you ought to be thankful you're not in financial difficulty.

Mr.David

The King of Moo wrote: »

Do you think they should get on with it instead of saying that maybe already vulnerable members of society shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of the rich and powerful?
Do you know, or care about people who might be much worse off than you, or do you only care about your own situation?

Even Ashoka Mody says things were taken too far with austerity measures: do you know better than him?

It's really not as simple as spinning an emotive argument and casting lines in the sand between 'vulnerable' and 'rich and powerful'. The actions being taken are, by and large I believe (excluding Anglo), in the best interests of Ireland as a future functioning economy.

If the poster does or does not care about people who are worse off what does that change? Must we all be anti-austerity out of pity for those hardest hit?

Ashoke Mody is entitled to his opinion that doesn't make it right does it? Anyway, his comments were related to the original actions taken by FF when the crash occured. I think there is consensus that those decisions were in hindsight incorrect. However we are where we are, and I think 'austerity' is the best route forward at this point.

To those that claim austerity doesnt work, what are you comparing it to? How can you possibly predict what the state of the economy would be if for example the policy over the past 1yr had been stimulating as opposed to austerity through increased borrowing and spending? You cannot say it doesnt work if you have nothing to compare it to!

IM0

The King of Moo wrote: »

That's the key word there. I don't know your exact situation but I'd be very surprised if you haven't felt cuts as badly as many other people in this country.
Do you think they should get on with it instead of saying that maybe already vulnerable members of society shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of the rich and powerful?
Do you know, or care about people who might be much worse off than you, or do you only care about your own situation?

Even Ashoka Mody says things were taken too far with austerity measures: do you know better than him?

please tell me you realise that most of these things you are citing people complaining about came in by the FF around the boom, they were unsustainable, you shouldnt be wondering why they are taken away now, more the fact that having all of these payments in the first place in a country which was in a budget deficet to provide them

IM0

KyussBishop wrote: »

There was a fair amount of fraud committed in the run up to the crisis, and nobody has been punished and put in jail for these crimes.
They are, effectively, above the law because nobody will prosecute them (one set of laws for me and you, another for those with monied/politically-connected interests; a two-tiered system); is this alone, not something worth protesting about? (nobody has any problems here?)

It's everyone else dealing with the consequences of their actions (the people involved with stoking the property bubble), with them hardly being affected at all; being insulated in fact, due to many of the same people participating in creating this crisis, getting ridiculous salaries, bonuses and pensions.

What isn't worth protesting over, about that?


Most of the people who are ardently against protesting, don't give a toss about any alternatives, they usually are backing a pet economic theory (typically constructed by right-wing think tanks, who want mass privatization and the destruction of welfare/labour powers, which just so happens to make private rent-seeking extraordinarily easy), or work in (or are moving to work in) an area where they benefit from austerity policies.

Usually they care most about shouting down alternatives, or pouring condescension upon them to try and undermine their credibility (as well as discouraging protests, that may undermine their beliefs or interests); the ones who don't do this out of consciously malign motives, typically do it out of tribal loyalty to their pet economic theories, a bit like the tribalistic loyalties you get with football supporters.

Others who aren't that much interested in economics, often just view right-wing 'lefty/hippy/crusty' bashing as edgy in some form or other, when it's really just small-minded; an ignorant way of avoiding exercising the few brain cells needed, to consider someones actual arguments.

That kind of lefty bashing is actually the perfect example of the tribalism: Turn off all braincells and engage in bashing, so other right-wing cohorts can join in, and you can try to 'win' the discussion through social-reinforcement; it's exactly this kind of escape from logical thinking, which allows them to cement their own views in even deeper, through social reinforcement and confirmation bias, and ignoring all criticism.

heres a wake up call for you, banks are private entities and its a private entities JOB to make money, they did nothing wrong, but the people who bought stuff they couldnt afford did everything wrong

The King of Moo

Mr.David wrote: »

It's really not as simple as spinning an emotive argument and casting lines in the sand between 'vulnerable' and 'rich and powerful'. The actions being taken are, by and large I believe (excluding Anglo), in the best interests of Ireland as a future functioning economy.

If the poster does or does not care about people who are worse off what does that change? Must we all be anti-austerity out of pity for those hardest hit?

Ashoke Mody is entitled to his opinion that doesn't make it right does it? Anyway, his comments were related to the original actions taken by FF when the crash occured. I think there is consensus that those decisions were in hindsight incorrect. However we are where we are, and I think 'austerity' is the best route forward at this point.

To those that claim austerity doesnt work, what are you comparing it to? How can you possibly predict what the state of the economy would be if for example the policy over the past 1yr had been stimulating as opposed to austerity through increased borrowing and spending? You cannot say it doesnt work if you have nothing to compare it to!

I don't propose a radical alternative to austerity measures, simply a more equitable distribution of the burden. And I don't intend to be emotive, it's simply true that people in already vulnerable or difficult positions are having their problems made worse by cuts.

And people don't have to feel sympathy or pity for those hit hard by cuts, but I would've assumed basic human compassion would've meant that most people would feel at least something along those lines.
And I do object to people making blanket statements about no-one in Ireland suffering simply because they themselves don't have to go to soup kitchens to get food.

IM0

The King of Moo wrote: »

I don't propose a radical alternative to austerity measures, simply a more equitable distribution of the burden. And I don't intend to be emotive, it's simply true that people in already vulnerable or difficult positions are having their problems made worse by cuts.

And people don't have to feel sympathy or pity for those hit hard by cuts, but I would've assumed basic human compassion would've meant that most people would feel at least something along those lines.
And I do object to people making blanket statements about no-one in Ireland suffering simply because they themselves don't have to go to soup kitchens to get food.

all that ****e Im guessing you heard from socialist party ect on tv debates and similar rubbish in the media whoich is no doubt back and biast in favour of that agenda too, they like you it seems have no notion of economics or capatalism and other things