Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

Odysseus

pone2012 wrote: »

Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



see above...

Have you any clinical experience? I would like to see you spend some clinical time with people who are that low, also with their familes and friends are their gone and see if you hold that opinion still. I tell you it will either change or you will not be allowed near people.

It sounds to me that you have very little experience in what you are talking about, don't think that doing a few modules will at undergard level is going to give you a solid understanding of clinical work and the people you will work with.

Then you will also learn about what it is like when you loose clients, and how it effects the whole clinic the person was attending.

To say that there is nothing that can make thing so bad that you resort to such drastic action; shows a very poor insight into the suffereing people experience and that we seek to work with in clinical work.

wayhey

pone2012 wrote: »

I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression

Wow. Are you doing psychology as an Arts degree? Have you really covered any kind of psychiatric pathology?

I'd also like to point out to people that Psychology is the study of human behaviour focusing on the individual, not any kind of disease processes (Psychiatry).

Playing the "I have a degree so I understand" card is also ridiculous. I hope I can empathise with those that have mental illness and have sympathy for their difficulty, but I could never dismiss them like you could. People have a right to refuse medical treatment, of course, but even basic medical training examines consent and the capacity to consent to essential medical treatment.

For someone who studies the mind and allegedly does well, you have a frightening opinion of mental health in a clinical setting. Someone has to want help? Even the law recognises that people may not always be seek help themselves. This is why people in deep psychosis/depressive episodes that are a danger to themselves can be taken to hospital to get the care that they need.

You're a long way from being an understanding clinical psychologist.

lertsnim

pone2012 wrote: »

I understand mental health

God help anybody that receives 'help' from you in future years.

Corkfeen

pone2012 wrote: »

see below



I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression



With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too

So you have experience with mental illness but are awfully ignorant of it at the very same time. I've got first hand experience, I contemplated suicide during my teens and was on the verge of going ahead with it. I still suffer from depression and I can somewhat understand my state of mind at the time.

I didn't ask for help because I didn't believe that there was anything that could help me in my situation. Ending my life appeared to be my only option. Looking back at myself back then, if I had gone ahead .I can't judge the character of myself because I was not in a clear state of mind and everything seemed hopeless. Those who commit suicide are not selfish, they are in immense pain and we should have attempt to have empathy for those who suffer from depression in silence.

pone2012 wrote: »

none in particular that was my opinion

I'm rather grateful that your course doesn't teach such rubbish. Why not state what you've stated to us to one of your lecturers. You believe you understand depression and would surely love for the academic community to hear your expertise or lack of.

jigglypuffstuff

opinion guy wrote: »

No. You don't.

Care to elaborate?

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

You are shockingly ignorant about mental health and I find it really worrying that you're actually studying psychology. Perhaps some people with clinical depression would kill to be the paralysed person in the wheelchair if only it meant they could find some joy in life. A paralysed mind is not always much better than a paralysed body. If you know so much about mental health, then how come you don't understand that some people are so sick that they don't have the ability to get help?

Perhaps they might, but then did you again consider that the grass is always greener on the other side? that things always seem better in someone elses shoes until you are there?

There is more to psychology that simply mental health you know, what about social psychology?? or research i never said that i wanted to become a clincal psychologist. Ive seen enough of that in my family thanks.

Are you ignorant to the fact that there is far more to psychology than treating mentally ill people??

eviltwin wrote: »

Personal experience of a situation doesn't equate to understanding.

Not always., but it gives plenty of insight

Ten of Swords wrote: »

Regardless of whatever exam scores you achieve your attitude is shocking. I would certainly never turn to you for help with any type of mental issue.

see above

Odysseus wrote: »

Have you any clinical experience? I would like to see you spend some clinical thing with people who are that low, also with their familes and friends are their gone and see if you hold that opinion. I tell you it will either change or you will not be allowed near people.

It sound to me that you have very little experience in what you are talking about, don't think that doing a few modules will at undergard level is going to give you a solid understanding of clinical work and the people you will work with.

Then you will also learn about what it is like when you loose clients, and how it effects the whole clinic the person was attending.

To say that there is nothing that can make thing so bad that you resort to such drastic action; show a very poor insight into the suffereing people experience and that we seek to work with in clinical work.

You are correct i have no experience, nor do i seek it in a clinical setting as it isnt the field in which i hope to work in. I hope to do research at a university hopefully

Thats my opinion on the subject, opinion and facts are two different things.

opinion guy

pone2012 wrote: »

With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too

Oh I see. So you have been a family member heavily affected by these problems.
Tell me, does that make you angry ?

FLCL

pone2012 wrote: »

Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



see above...

Feckin hell, it terrifies me that people like you are entering the mental health profession (that is if you aren't trolling us). Your lack of understanding of the condition is actually mind-boggling, and hopefully one day when you pass your college modules and enter a clinical setting, + get first hand experience treating people with the condition you'll realize that you were wrong.

My dad suffers from manic depression, when he's at his lows (which can last a couple of months) he is confined to his bed for weeks on end, can hardly even move, staring blankly at the ceiling. If I didn't spoon mushy weetabix into his mouth, he would probably die of starvation during these low periods. This is someone who is supposedly being "treated" for the last few years by mental health services in Ireland, GPs, psychiatrists, medication, etc.

Imagine during one of these low periods, I said to him "I have no sympathy for you because you are refusing to get help", and comparing his condition to someone hungry with a fridge full of food? For the sake of the future of society and humanity, please reconsider if this profession is actually right for you.

jigglypuffstuff

Corkfeen wrote: »

I didn't ask for help because I didn't believe that there was anything that could help me in my situation. Ending my life appeared to be my only option.

So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...

Toshi101

As someone who has suffered depression quite badly i dont agree with with the approach he's taking at all. BUT if he does get through to a few people then its a definite plus

Turtwig

pone2012 wrote: »

Psychology's a part of my course in university so here's my 2 cents

Im a firm believer that people who want to get help will get help and make an effort, those who dont wont. A big factor here is a persons approach to life be it optimistic or pessimistic.

And to the person who says suicide isnt selfish let me ask you something.

Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

Depression is the common cold of mental health. Suicidal tendencies on the other hand are a damn good analogy to cancer or something similar.

Imagine, one day you're going for a swim. The most significant health problem you've ever experienced before now was a really bad case of pneumonia. As far as your life goes you're not that stressed. You're in the swimming pool, enjoying yourself, relaxing. Then something really surreal and strange happens. You want to drown yourself. You don't know why, but you just do. So, you try, what will be henceforth known as your first attempt. It ends in complete failure; your body's instinct won't let you. You try again, this time harder and with more concentration and intent. But your body won't relent it always surfaces for air no matter how hard you try. You try again and again and again and again and again. Until it becomes clear that it's an obvious exercise in futility. At this point you're so distressed that your paranoia that onlookers may take notice takes over. So you regroup and start internally planning how and when your next attempt will take place.

I could go on here, but I think that briefly illustrates an extreme suicidal tendency. To suggest this person by taking their own life is being selfish or inconsiderate completely misunderstands their pain and torment.

eviltwin

pone2012 wrote: »

So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...

People know help is out there, its actually finding the courage to get that help that is the hard part.

looking_around

pone2012 wrote: »

So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...

actually yes, many are.
Apart from that, mental illness treatments here, could do with ALOT of adjustments.

I have been both 'hurt' & helped by 'supports' here.

Unfortunately there isn't as much help as one would expect. Especially if you are in the midst of a real struggle, like being unable to leave the home/eat and so on.

jigglypuffstuff

opinion guy wrote: »

Oh I see. So you have been a family member heavily affected by these problems.
Tell me, does that make you angry ?

Theres been more than one actually. And no, not in the slightest, Everyone has problems...

FLCL wrote: »

Feckin hell, it terrifies me that people like you are entering the mental health profession (that is if you aren't trolling us). Your

Please read above

Jernal wrote: »

Depression is the common cold of mental health.

Agreed, but there are different types of depression which are not all so common

Corkfeen

pone2012 wrote: »

So you expect me to believe that a person is ignorant to the fact that there is help available for sufferers of mental health?? Seriously i hope you are joking...

You have no awareness of the problems that I faced or my state of mind. There is help available but many are simply staring into an abyss. They don't believe that the help that is available is of any use them. They don't see a future for themselves where they have any sense of happiness. This isn't ignorance, it's immense pain and suffering that can blind a person.

will.i.am

FLCL wrote: »

Feckin hell, it terrifies me that people like you are entering the mental health profession (that is if you aren't trolling us). Your lack of understanding of the condition is actually mind-boggling, and hopefully one day when you pass your college modules and enter a clinical setting, + get first hand experience treating people with the condition you'll realize that you were wrong.

Don't worry the poster pone2012 isn't really entering the mental health system he is only studying Early years & childhood in UCC. This is basically a degree in baby sitting/childminding.

jigglypuffstuff

looking_around wrote: »

actually yes, many are.
Apart from that, mental illness treatments here, could do with ALOT of adjustments.

100% agreed

Corkfeen wrote: »

You have no awareness of the problems that I faced or my state of mind. There is help available but many are simply staring into an abyss. They don't believe that the help that is available is of any use them. They don't see a future for themselves where they have any sense of happiness. This isn't ignorance, it's immense pain and suffering that can blind a person.

So then you knew that the help was available?? you just didnt think it was worth you while?

opinion guy

pone2012 wrote: »

Theres been more than one actually. And no, not in the slightest, Everyone has problems...

Well you don't think your experiences may have coloured your viewpoint on these issues then ? I mean you've only seen one side of it - as a family member. You haven't experienced what your family members went through - have you ? Or random people with depression.

Perhaps you would see it differently from the other side of the coin.

rox5

FLCL wrote: »

Saw this article on independent.ie earlier and was frankly a little disturbed, http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/terminally-ill-16yearold-takes-his-antisuicide-campaign-to-rte-29176645.html (Not sure if linking is allowed mod?)

To summarize, this guy is terminally ill and feels "anger" towards young people who commit suicide or are considering it. As someone with a family member suffering depression, I find this kind of message he's giving out quite unhelpful (despite his good intentions) and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding (by HSE and RTE for allowing this to go out tomorrow) of the complexity of mental illness, depression and suicide.

It reminds me of the "ahh sure cop on to yourself, there's always someone worse off" treatment. If you present yourself to a doctor/counselor/psychologist with depression they will not start off by telling you how there's starving children in Bolivia so get over your depression, and I am highly skeptical as to the benefits of a terminally ill boy's opinions and criticisms of an illness - the treatment of which he likely knows nothing about, on national TV will do.

Lines like this particularly grind my gears: "I feel angry that these people choose to take their lives, to ruin their families and to leave behind a mess that no one can clean up," he added.

Any thoughts / opinions?

I can understand him being angry that is life will be taken away when he does not want to die, but I can understand other people being angry at him over his views MORE.

I mean it's not as if depression is just an excuse or just a common cold. It is a mental illness, a very bad one, and one of the reasons the suicide rate is so high here is that people are too afraid to speak up because of ignorance like this.
I am pretty sure that I had depression when I was a teenager (still think I have it now), I have cut myself when I was younger and instead of being offered help and recieving empathy (think thats the right phrase for it) from relatives when they realised something was up with me, instead I was screamed at, made to feel worse about myself, and being told "Everyone has problems, not just you!!"
None of them wanted to know about it, and I ended up bottling up everything. I am in my 20s now, and even now I am scared to make my own appointment with my doctor because believe it or not, I keep thinking that even he will judge me, even though he is not supposed to, since i have visited him a lot over the years so he knows me well.

I am really getting sick of the ignorance we have in this country.

jigglypuffstuff

will.i.am wrote: »

Don't worry the poster pone2012 isn't really entering the mental health system he is only studying Early years & childhood in UCC. This is basically a degree in baby sitting/childminding.

And you think my course is baby-sitting? basically took the course as a backdoor into psychology, still have more experience in it than you i presume, not to mention the extra reading i do as i enjoy the subject

I shudder to imagine what profession you will enter which such a childish opinion

eviltwin

pone2012 wrote: »

So then you knew that the help was available?? you just didnt think it was worth you while?

You do realise you are talking about a MENTAL ILLNESS here? People with mental illness issues are not rational.

I had severe depression a few years ago culminating in a suicide attempt. I knew help was out ther but I didn't get any until I was basically forced into it by my family. I was paranoid, I had convinced myself I lose my kids and my job. It sounds silly now but at the time I totally believed that would happen and I was afraid to get help for that reason.

I can look back and see that my fears were caused by the illness, at the time though I had no understanding of that. I felt I was doing okay and was holding it all together when in actual fact I was a complete mess.

Your comments have moved beyond ignorant to being insulting now.

jigglypuffstuff

opinion guy wrote: »

Well you don't think your experiences may have coloured your viewpoint on these issues then ? I mean you've only seen one side of it - as a family member. You haven't experienced what your family members went through - have you ? Or random people with depression.

Perhaps you would see it differently from the other side of the coin.

sufferer of OCD . have managed to turn it from a serious problem to very little in over a year, with no help whatsoever.

will.i.am

pone2012 wrote: »

And you think my course is baby-sitting? basically took the course as a backdoor into psychology, still have more experience in it than you i presume, not to mention the extra reading i do as i enjoy the subject

I shudder to imagine what profession you will enter which such a childish opinion

Clearly you didn't obtain enough points to be left into psychology in the first place. Second of all I will enter a profession that I enjoy!
PS Learn to use full-stops.

jigglypuffstuff

eviltwin wrote: »

You do realise you are talking about a MENTAL ILLNESS here? People with mental illness issues are not rational.

I had severe depression a few years ago culminating in a suicide attempt. I knew help was out ther but I didn't get any until I was basically forced into it by my family. I was paranoid, I had convinced myself I lose my kids and my job. It sounds silly now but at the time I totally believed that would happen and I was afraid to get help for that reason.

I can look back and see that my fears were caused by the illness, at the time though I had no understanding of that. I felt I was doing okay and was holding it all together when in actual fact I was a complete mess.

Your comments have moved beyond ignorant to being insulting now.

The comment you quoted was a genuine question, not an insult by any means, apoligies if you took it to heart

Corkfeen

pone2012 wrote: »

So then you knew that the help was available?? you just didnt think it was worth you while?

I wasn't oblivious to it and this only my experience, I was also very young which didn't help. You seem to assume that a person is in the correct state of mind to seek help and it's out sheer selfishness that they're not doing so. It's really worrying that you can't even empathise in the slightest with people who are suicidal. It is awful for the families but it is equally awful for the person who thinks the only option is suicide.

opinion guy

pone2012 wrote: »

sufferer of OCD . have managed to turn it from a serious problem to very little in over a year, with no help whatsoever.

Well has your OCD ever made you suicidal ?

And what this ? Boasting about no help whatsoever. Whilst in other posts your are giving out to people for not seeking help ?

jigglypuffstuff

will.i.am wrote: »

Clearly you didn't obtain enough points to be left into psychology in the first place. Second of all I will enter a profession that I enjoy!
PS Learn to use full-stops.

I fell short by a few correct.

I hope whatever profession it is that it does not require your opinion of any sort, especially such an ignorant one!

Odysseus

pone2012 wrote: »

Care to elaborate?





You are correct i have no experience, nor do i seek it in a clinical setting as it isnt the field in which i hope to work in. I hope to do research at a university hopefully

Thats my opinion on the subject, opinion and facts are two different things.

See everyone has opinions, you came on here stating you study psychology impling that you have an insight into mental health issues because of it.

I know that its only an opinion as opposed to even a professional opinion, because they do not teach clinical psychopathology at undergrad level.

In you OP you tryed to "psych" your personal opinion based upon you study psychology.

The good thing this thread has shown is that opinions on mental health are changing and that people are going to listen to outdated opinions.

jigglypuffstuff

Corkfeen wrote: »

I wasn't oblivious to it and this only my experience, I was also very young which didn't help. You seem to assume that a person is in the correct state of mind to seek help and it's out sheer selfishness that they're not doing so. It's really worrying that you can't even empathise in the slightest with people who are suicidal. It is awful for the families but it is equally awful for the person who thinks the only option is suicide.

I never said it was out of sheer selfishness, everyone has different circumstances. i was just curious as to your previous comment.

opinion guy wrote: »

Well has your OCD ever made you suicidal ?

And what this ? Boasting about no help whatsoever. Whilst in other posts your are giving out to people for not seeking help ?

Indeed not.

No im in no manner boasting im simply stating, that mental health disorders can be overcome with or without help, depending on severity. having it is hard enough to state.

Ten of Swords

pone2012 wrote: »

sufferer of OCD . have managed to turn it from a serious problem to very little in over a year, with no help whatsoever.

Good for you managing on your own with no help, I hope you continue to do so, but you must realise that there are many situations where people simply cannot self-help but also find equally impossible to ask for help for fear of stigma, rejection, escalation of a bad situation or receiving inadequate or ineffective help.

It takes strength to ask for help yet you seem to automatically assume that you simply must, as a rule, seek outside help where self-help will not work, it does not work like that.

jigglypuffstuff

Odysseus wrote: »

See everyone has opinions, you came on here stating you study psychology impling that you have an insight into mental health issues because of it.

I know that its only an opinion as opposed to even a professional opinion, because they do not teach clinical psychopathology at undergrad level.

In you OP you tryed to "psych" your personal opinion based upon you study psychology.

The good thing this thread has shown is that opinions on mental health are changing and that people are going to listen to outdated opinions.

To be 100% honest it does come across this way perhaps I should have defined the line between my opinion and facts

Yes i do study psychology its a big part of my course, my interest lies however in social psychology. perhaps i should have omitted that from the post