Terminally ill 16-year-old takes his anti-suicide campaign to RTE

starlings

eviltwin wrote: »

But people with depression or those who feel suicidal don't try and guilt others do they? Its a mental illness and asking people with a mental illness to think in a rational and logical way just shows the lack of understanding.

As I said I don't think the guy himself is at fault here, the fault is with RTE for letting him have a slot on one of the most watched tv shows in the country. That shows just how little they know about mental health, that they think people in the depths of depression will watch this and change. And I don't think that its any way sensationalist to say that's something that belongs in the 50's

I would expect better of our national broadcaster

People with depression don't try to make others feel guilty, but those others often do feel guilty that they cannot help their loved one.

RTÉ might be stuck in the past, but that's not to say that our society is. If anything, there's been an outpouring of sympathy for people suffering from depression over the past few decades. It's the practicalities that are taking time to catch up.

edit: I wasn't asking people with depression to be rational about it; I was asking the rest of society to be objective.

looking_around

pone2012 wrote: »

Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

And is it not selfish to ask someone who is in pain, everyday, to keep living?
Apart from that, not everyone has people who will really care either way.

And I agree, people have to want help to get better. But it doesn't mean cured. And it comes to how much SHOULD you put up with in life? What makes it worth it? because someone else thinks you're wrong?

Remember "mental" illness are not just cause by trauma, but by chemical imbalances that mess the brain.
In those cases, where it's completely physical, can you truly say that person chooses? And that, their choices were selfish and NOT caused by the illness?

pablomakaveli

pone2012 wrote: »

Psychology's a part of my course in university so here's my 2 cents

Im a firm believer that people who want to get help will get help and make an effort, those who dont wont. A big factor here is a persons approach to life be it optimistic or pessimistic.

And to the person who says suicide isnt selfish let me ask you something.

Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

Youre probably going to fail the psychology part of your course.

josealdo

Ten of Swords wrote: »

He is angry at his own situation and it has distorted his perspective imo. His comments show a complete lack of empathy towards those feeling at their lowest point, "if they slept on it or looked for help they could find a solution". Remarks like that are obviously well intentioned but unhelpful and would likely be counter productive to anyone feeling desperate enough to
consider suicide.

This is just another example of someone angry at their own circumstanes and projecting them onto others .

Ten of Swords

starlings wrote: »

RTÉ might be stuck in the past, but that's not to say that our society is. If anything, there's been an outpouring of sympathy for people suffering from depression over the past few decades. It's the practicalities that are taking time to catch up.

That is correct and it is a change for the better but it seems to me that this level of understanding (sympathy is not appropriate for this imo) is very generational, older people (parents, extended family etc) are far less likely to respond positively. Younger people may be more open to the concept but are often less able to offer practical help.

eviltwin

starlings wrote: »

People with depression don't try to make others feel guilty, but those others often do feel guilty that they cannot help their loved one.

RTÉ might be stuck in the past, but that's not to say that our society is. If anything, there's been an outpouring of sympathy for people suffering from depression over the past few decades. It's the practicalities that are taking time to catch up.

edit: I wasn't asking people with depression to be rational about it; I was asking the rest of society to be objective.

That's true and the Saturday Night Show has done its fair share of positive stories on mental illness in the past which makes this a strange choice. I suppose we'll have to wait and see what is actually said but going by the article in the Indo I don't see much that is going to be of any benefit to anyone tbh.

coffee_cake

pone2012 wrote: »

Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

Imagine how it feels to be so depressed you fcuking kill yourself in the first place. Where something so central to your life - self preservation - is ripped away.
Christ.
Sitting around going "well the family is upset" without a word of why someone would do that in the first place?
Study your course a bit harder.

lertsnim

FLCL wrote: »

Saw this article on independent.ie earlier and was frankly a little disturbed, http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/terminally-ill-16yearold-takes-his-antisuicide-campaign-to-rte-29176645.html (Not sure if linking is allowed mod?)

To summarize, this guy is terminally ill and feels "anger" towards young people who commit suicide or are considering it. As someone with a family member suffering depression, I find this kind of message he's giving out quite unhelpful (despite his good intentions) and demonstrates a complete lack of understanding (by HSE and RTE for allowing this to go out tomorrow) of the complexity of mental illness, depression and suicide.

It reminds me of the "ahh sure cop on to yourself, there's always someone worse off" treatment. If you present yourself to a doctor/counselor/psychologist with depression they will not start off by telling you how there's starving children in Bolivia so get over your depression, and I am highly skeptical as to the benefits of a terminally ill boy's opinions and criticisms of an illness - the treatment of which he likely knows nothing about, on national TV will do.

Lines like this particularly grind my gears: "I feel angry that these people choose to take their lives, to ruin their families and to leave behind a mess that no one can clean up," he added.

Any thoughts / opinions?

He was given a tough break in life but hasn't a notion about what he is on about. It is disappointing that anybody has given a platform to talk **** from

Ten of Swords

pone2012 wrote: »

Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

You would be heaping guilt upon guilt by doing this. By the time someone is considering suicide they are already at a point of total disconnect from everyone and everything around them. Their outlook of life is not going to be optimistic either.

lertsnim

pone2012 wrote: »

Psychology's a part of my course in university so here's my 2 cents

Im a firm believer that people who want to get help will get help and make an effort, those who dont wont. A big factor here is a persons approach to life be it optimistic or pessimistic.

And to the person who says suicide isnt selfish let me ask you something.

Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

Wow. Absolute rubbish

wayhey

candy-gal1 wrote: »

Il just put my 2cents in here, I know im going to get slated for it as I have done before.
Everyones entitled to their own opinion imho on matters like this so Im not saying my viewpoint is right and everyone should think the same, but when people say things like "oh mental illness can be as bad as/worse having cancer/terminal diseases etc it just makes my blood boil!

You're absolutely right that discussion is needed and people are allowed to have subjectivity about the pain or impact of their diseases. Someone may find cancer worse than depression.

candy-gal wrote:

You can pretty much get cancer/terminal diseases sometimes for no reason at all, non smoker/getting regular checkups etc, but depression is something that your not exactly going to die from unless of course you commit suicide because of it!
Now maybe Im wrong, and If I am and its proven that people do die purely from having depression, I actually do apologise.

I don't understand your argument, especially the "but". People can get cancer or depression with no clear instigating event beforehand. Your view of "dying from depression" is overly simplistic. Do you know anyone with diagnosed depression? Maybe you're one of the luckier estimated 3 in 4 to avoid mental health issues.

People diagnosed with depression are at a significantly increased risk of suicide versus members of the general population. You almost suggest that suicide is a "choice" for these people. That's simply not the case. Otherwise people with depression would have the same suicide risk as members of the general population. There is something intrinsic to this condition which increases one's likelihood of suicide, just as someone with cancer is more likely to experience blood clotting accidents. Someone with cancer cannot "will" away a deep vein thrombosis any more than someone in the grip of a serious depressive, suicidal episode can "decide" not to take their life. People often don't die of their primary cancer, but rather where it has spread and complications arising from that. Suicide can be consider such a sad secondary effect of depression.

candy-gal wrote:

And yes, tough love isnt a great approach with someone who has depression, but it can work in some circumstances, it is a MENTAL illness though - aka brain power/feelings/thinking or over thinking moreso imho.

The evidence is not open to this interpretation. Do you have any professional health training? Do you understand basic neurochemistry and neurotransmitters? As brain imaging techniques become more advanced it is increasingly becoming more apparent that we can measure and assess "mental" illness. Mental suggests an invisible force but this isn't the case. There are physical causes for neurological conditions. Parkinson's could once be considered a "mental" illness because its origin is in the brain but it is caused by a lack of a chemical called dopamine used in minute amounts in the brain to control muscle contractions. Development of synthetic dopamine was a huge advance in treating it. Imagine that, a physical treatment for a disease that is "mental" in origin. These things are not easily studied because of the blood-brain-barrier which regulates which chemicals come in and out - but just because it is not easy does not mean we should jump to the willpower argument.

Depression or suicide are not a matter of willpower. I, like you, believe that people are entitled to their opinion. Yet in light of scientific evidence, your opinion is not valid. It is condescending to think that these people can "pull themselves together" or "will themselves out" of an episode of illness. I really hope that you or someone close to you never has to realise that, because it is this attitude that makes people feel like "failures" for seeking help when they "should be able to cope".

candy-gal wrote:

Btw if your a functioning depressant - aka working/getting on with life with some setbacks on occaision then I actually applaud you tbh.
We have one life, this one, its not a dress rehearsal, so make what you can out of it and be as happy as you possibly can be.

What of someone who can't "get on with life"? Are they failures?

I am glad that people are discussing this and all opinions are being put out. It's the only way that anything will change.

Anyone reading this thread, if you are struggling, look for help. There's absolutely no shame or weakness in doing so.

starlings

bluewolf wrote: »

Imagine how it feels to be so depressed you fcuking kill yourself in the first place. Where something so central to your life - self preservation - is ripped away.
Christ.
Sitting around going "well the family is upset" without a word of why someone would do that in the first place?
Study your course a bit harder.

why is it such a heresy to consider the feelings of those bereaved by suicide?

It is entirely possible to sympathise with and try to understand both the person who commits suicide and the people they leave behind. In fact, the focus on one side at the expense of the other is what is truly selfish here.

coffee_cake

starlings wrote: »

why is it such a heresy to consider the feelings of those bereaved by suicide?

It is entirely possible to sympathise with and try to understand both the person who commits suicide and the people they leave behind. In fact, the focus on one side at the expense of the other is what is truly selfish here.

It's not a heresy. What I have a problem with is someone blithely on about emotionally blackmailing someone who's already in a serious state, just so other people don't feel bad, with no consideration of the depressed person. It's not helpful, in fact I'd say it's the opposite. A lot of depressed people already feel like a burden on their friends and family. Tell them they're a burden on their family isn't exactly getting them out of it.

Odysseus

It is a difficult one in a sense, the poor lad should have to deal with this at his age, though I remember when I was in my early 20s being at funerals of mates who took their own lives. I can remember saying to a mate that we should have to be doing this for another few decades.

The young lad has a right to opinion, but that is all it is. Fcuk I would hate to think about some of the opinions I held at that age, I certainly didn't have much of an understanding to life. However, the people who are giving him a stage are the ones I see as wrong. If this young lad only has a few months to live his opinion will be strongly coloured by that. He would be better off looking at his only situation and making the best of that. I would wonder if this is a defense in relation to his own situation.

However, as other have noted it shows a very poor understanding of people who are suicidal, it is a very dark people when reason or thing like "tough love" hold no sway.

I would like to see what he has to say and if it is the same as the way the artical presents it, however, I would rather have seen a sitaution where he was not given any media attention for this and was encouraged to focus on getting the most out of his time left here.

mikom

This young lad should stick his views up on youtube and leave it at that.
I'd say there will be a few depressed and suicidal folks under severe monetary pressure that will be wondering why they scraped together the cash for the TV licence, upon viewing this.


Up next on the Saturday night show............ a priest urging us to practice celibacy.

Odysseus

pone2012 wrote: »

Psychology's a part of my course in university so here's my 2 cents

Im a firm believer that people who want to get help will get help and make an effort, those who dont wont. A big factor here is a persons approach to life be it optimistic or pessimistic.

And to the person who says suicide isnt selfish let me ask you something.

Imagine how it feels to be a mother/father/sibling/partner looking over one of your familys coffins thinking what you could have done/what went wrong,where someone so central to your life is ripped away in a flash never to return.

Dont say it isnt selfish to leave others behind like that.

What part of your course taught you that?

jigglypuffstuff

eviltwin wrote: »

Time to rethink your choice of course perhaps

Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.

looking_around wrote: »

And is it not selfish to ask someone who is in pain, everyday, to keep living?
Apart from that, not everyone has people who will really care either way.

And I agree, people have to want help to get better. But it doesn't mean cured. And it comes to how much SHOULD you put up with in life? What makes it worth it? because someone else thinks you're wrong?

Remember "mental" illness are not just cause by trauma, but by chemical imbalances that mess the brain.
In those cases, where it's completely physical, can you truly say that person chooses? And that, their choices were selfish and NOT caused by the illness?

To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Youre probably going to fail the psychology part of your course.

see above...

My name is URL

People are odd all the same. The internet lights up with outpourings of grief and people emotionally gushing when a story emerges about a bullied kid taking their own life. People get angry at the circumstances, they proclaim to want to put an end to such tragedies and wish somebody had done something to stop it. They talk about the cause far more than the outcome.

Yet, a 16 yo kid comes out and shares his thoughts on things as he sees them, and he's met with anger and disdain for doing so. People say that his views do more harm than good, and that suicidal people won't have their minds changed by it. Well, will they have their minds changed if others appear to accept that suicide is an understandable or even an inevitable option for them?

IzzyWizzy

Jernal wrote: »

I don't agree. This whole "if it helps one person . . ." line of reasoning only works if you conveniently forget about potential negative costs. Suppose for instance that it does help one person, but compounds the stigma and lack of understanding in this country. It's still an achievement of sorts but not exactly something that could be considered a positive achievement.

Personally, I think comparing conditions of people's misfortunes or grievances is never a good thing to do. I'd wager that many depressives know all too well that life could be worse and that's part of the problem. It's this "knowing" that they shouldn't be complaining that can often be so toxic. "Why am I sad? I got nothing I deserve to be sad about?"

Exactly. There was this awful girl at my old workplace who used to give out about anyone who said they felt down/depressed/sad, because she thought she had it much worse because she'd lost her mother at a young age. As if that automatically entitled her to complain and nobody else was ever allowed to. She really did see it as a competition.

It's awful that this boy is dying at such a young age. But perhaps he's been brought up in a loving, positive environment with people who support him, perhaps he's at least been lucky enough not to suffer from clinical depression and be able to enjoy his short life. People like him are just devoid of empathy because they can't comprehend that not everyone else is exactly like them. They can't comprehend that for some people, life is so bad that they actually would rather be dead. Nothing annoys me more than people who have been fortunate enough not to have experienced mental health issues criticising and attacking those who have. As if someone with severe depression is going to think, 'oh well even though I feel nothing, have no connection with others, have no sex drive, no desire to do anything, feel like I'm living under a dark cloud...I should just realise how lucky I am because this chap is dying of cancer.'

So ignorant. Anyone suffering from depression will have heard the 'what have you got to be depressed about?' line countless times. All it does it make you feel ten times worse.

opinion guy

pone2012 wrote: »

I understand mental health..

No. You don't.

starlings

bluewolf wrote: »

It's not a heresy. What I have a problem with is someone blithely on about emotionally blackmailing someone who's already in a serious state, just so other people don't feel bad, with no consideration of the depressed person. It's not helpful, in fact I'd say it's the opposite. A lot of depressed people already feel like a burden on their friends and family. Tell them they're a burden on their family isn't exactly getting them out of it.

It might help the family and friends deal with it better - and be a better help to the depressed person -if it is acknowledged that it is a burden for them. Don't need to go saying it to the face of the person suffering, but it doesn't help to pretend everything's grand.

coffee_cake

starlings wrote: »

It might help the family and friends deal with it better - and be a better help to the depressed person -if it is acknowledged that it is a burden for them. Don't need to go saying it to the face of the person suffering, but it doesn't help to pretend everything's grand.

Who is pretending anything is grand? That would make it worse.

IzzyWizzy

pone2012 wrote: »

Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



see above...

You are shockingly ignorant about mental health and I find it really worrying that you're actually studying psychology. Perhaps some people with clinical depression would kill to be the paralysed person in the wheelchair if only it meant they could find some joy in life. A paralysed mind is not always much better than a paralysed body. If you know so much about mental health, then how come you don't understand that some people are so sick that they don't have the ability to get help?

jigglypuffstuff

lertsnim wrote: »

Wow. Absolute rubbish

see below

bluewolf wrote: »

Imagine how it feels to be so depressed you fcuking kill yourself in the first place. Where something so central to your life - self preservation - is ripped away.
Christ.
Sitting around going "well the family is upset" without a word of why someone would do that in the first place?
Study your course a bit harder.

I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression

opinion guy wrote: »

No. You don't.

With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too

eviltwin

pone2012 wrote: »

With 2 nervous breakdowns in my family, 3 sufferers from OCD , 1 from anxiety and also a sufferer of paranoid schizophrenic I think ive got better grips than you...unless of course you could say you've had similar??..and lets not forget the ex that sufferend from bulimia and anxiety disorder too

Personal experience of a situation doesn't equate to understanding.

coffee_cake

pone2012 wrote: »

see below



I never said this was an easy thing to deal with. and familys often dont care or recognize. but someone needs to want help to be helped. So you can tell me its perfectly acceptable to hang yourself or OD because your mental health isnt the best, perhaps you suffer from clinical depression

Your psych course is teaching you bad reading comprehension and medical diagnoses is it?

Out of here...

jigglypuffstuff

Odysseus wrote: »

What part of your course taught you that?

none in particular that was my opinion

Ten of Swords

pone2012 wrote: »

Doubtful got all 2.1 in my psych modules last year and looking similar this year too.



To be honest there is nothing that can make things that bad that you need to resort to such drastic action. There are people out there who are paralysed from the neck down that live on as optimistic as possible, work hard everyday to try and even move a finger or to or something, and yet they would kill to have an able body to enjoy the simpler things in life, I understand mental health..people in my family suffer greatly from it, its the reason im headed to do a MA in psych one i graduate..Im not saying its as easy as 1,2 your cured. but i have no sympathy for people who refuse to get help. thats like complaining about being hungry with a fridge full of food



see above...

Regardless of whatever exam scores you achieve your attitude is shocking. I would certainly never turn to you for help with any type of mental issue.

jigglypuffstuff

bluewolf wrote: »

Your psych course is teaching you bad reading comprehension and medical diagnoses is it?

Out of here...

I didnt write that correctly, I'm currently doing a social science assignment as we speak so i am between screens.

What i meant was do you think it would be acceptable for someone to commit suicide because THEY suffer from C.D or poor mental health

shopaholic01

I feel sorry for the guy, it's a lot to deal with at 16. I found the article portrayed him as being smug, it will be interesting to see how he is tonight without editting.

He clearly doesn't have an understanding of depression or empathy for those who suffer from it.

The show, it's presenter and the other featured guest are probably the worst choice for this type of discussion. Unfortunately it will also be biased. They really need to get the opinion of people who have been close to or survived suicide attempts, and the families of those who have committed suicide - it is not enough to get the opinion of a terminally ill 16 year old when you are labelling suicide as selfish and avoidable.

As others have said, shame on RTE. It looks like an attempt to boost rating by pulling on heart strings.