North Korea v USA Mega Merge.

old hippy

666irishguy wrote: »

I'd gladly chose the nuclear fireball instead of spending the rest of my days breaking rocks in a gulag any day.

There's a potential for millions to perish in a nuclear conflict that could envelop the region. Do you really want that?

Iwasfrozen

old hippy wrote: »

There's a potential for millions to perish in a nuclear conflict that could envelop the region. Do you really want that?

I'd imagine if I was in a gulag. Yes.

old hippy

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I'd imagine if I was in a gulag. Yes.

Ok, my turn. Let's say I'm imprisoned in a gulag because I was deemed subversive. I wouldn't want millions to die, regardless of my plight.

opinion guy

old hippy wrote: »

Ok, my turn. Let's say I'm imprisoned in a gulag because I was deemed subversive. I wouldn't want millions to die, regardless of my plight.

Hey hippy whilst I agree with you idealistic sentiment, I can't see any other way to stop the suffering in North Korea other than military action - can you ? Kim is what 30 ? He might live a long life

Iwasfrozen

old hippy wrote: »

Ok, my turn. Let's say I'm imprisoned in a gulag because I was deemed subversive. I wouldn't want millions to die, regardless of my plight.

It's easy to say that but if you were suffering under extreme conditions you'd pray for anything to deliver you from your pain.

old hippy

opinion guy wrote: »

Hey hippy whilst I agree with you idealistic sentiment, I can't see any other way to stop the suffering in North Korea other than military action - can you ? Kim is what 30 ? He might live a long life

Unfortunately, the suffering has been there for 60 years. Why will nuclear conflict suddenly make everything ok? Is war always the answer?

Artful_Badger

opinion guy wrote: »

Hey hippy whilst I agree with you idealistic sentiment, I can't see any other way to stop the suffering in North Korea other than military action - can you ? Kim is what 30 ? He might live a long life

May as well nuke Africa then too while we're at it, how long now have we been sending tins of beans and they are still hungry ?

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

Unfortunately, the suffering has been there for 60 years. Why will nuclear conflict suddenly make everything ok? Is war always the answer?

Yes it is here.Short term loss long term gain.Free the country now or this will go on for years to come.

opinion guy

old hippy wrote: »

Unfortunately, the suffering has been there for 60 years. Why will nuclear conflict suddenly make everything ok? Is war always the answer?

Artful_Badger wrote: »

May as well nuke Africa then too while we're at it, how long now have we been sending tins of beans and they are still hungry ?

I didn't say anything about nuking anyone did I?
NK is different to Africa - obviously.

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

Yes it is here.Short term loss long term gain.Free the country now or this will go on for years to come.

Millions in the firing line, an entire region dragged into nuclear conflict, the literal fallout which will last generations and generations. That's long term gain, is it?

opinion guy

old hippy wrote: »

Millions in the firing line, an entire region dragged into nuclear conflict, the literal fallout which will last generations and generations. That's long term gain, is it?

And what if Kim lives to his 80's and stays in command ? And maybe hands off power to a son ?

old hippy

opinion guy wrote: »

I didn't say anything about nuking anyone did I?
NK is different to Africa - obviously.

Dunno. Some countries in Africa have dubious dictators where people are imprisoned for not having the "correct" views, or their religion/sexuality is on trial.

There's plenty of ongoing conflicts in the continent with a heavy, heavy increasing toll. Has war helped much?

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

Millions in the firing line, an entire region dragged into nuclear conflict, the literal fallout which will last generations and generations. That's long term gain, is it?

Yes in terms of hundreds of years,someone needs to go in and overthrow the government and free the country from their retard of a leader.

If what your saying happens,the country will be in oppression forever,being brainwashed from a young age to believe everything says is true and it's the greatest country and government ever.Certainly some military action has to be taken,ideally with as little civillian casualties as possible.

opinion guy

old hippy wrote: »

Dunno. Some countries in Africa have dubious dictators where people are imprisoned for not having the "correct" views, or their religion/sexuality is on trial.

There's plenty of ongoing conflicts in the continent with a heavy, heavy increasing toll. Has war helped much?

NK is not Africa - and as you kjeep pointing out yourself - the sheer scale of things in NK is vast.

o1s1n

old hippy wrote: »

Unfortunately, the suffering has been there for 60 years. Why will nuclear conflict suddenly make everything ok? Is war always the answer?

Why are you automatically assuming it's going to be a nuclear conflict?

It could very well be resolved through a fast, conventional attack. All we know is that North Korea have the ability to detonate small yield nuclear bombs in the mountains. That does not meant they can 'throw' them at anyone.

Can you please let me know what the other options are? I've seen you post a lot in this thread, but all you seem to do is say 'we can't do X, we can't do Y, we can't do Z'.

What can be done? ('Nothing' is not an option, as there are folks being sent to torture/death camps for literally no reason at all.)

As the saying goes -

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

old hippy

opinion guy wrote: »

And what if Kim lives to his 80's and stays in command ? And maybe hands off power to a son ?

What Kim wants is talks with the US, more aid and to be left alone. He, or rather, the generals want an official treaty to end the 60 year old war. The Kim dynasty is finite. You'll see. There's only so much a people can take. The rulers will eventually start to come in from the cold. Like Burma.

old hippy

o1s1n wrote: »

Why are you automatically assuming it's going to be a nuclear conflict?

It could very well be resolved through a fast, conventional attack. All we know is that North Korea have the ability to detonate small yield nuclear bombs in the mountains. That does not meant they can 'throw' them at anyone.

Can you please let me know what the other options are? I've seen you post a lot in this thread, but all you seem to do is say 'we can't do X, we can't do Y, we can't do Z'.

What can be done? ('Nothing' is not an option, as there are folks being sent to torture/death camps for literally no reason at all.)

As the saying goes -

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing

There's torture and needless deaths all over the world. What are you going to do about them?

What can be done if apply pressure for dialogue, China is already making noises in that direction, as we've seen recently. As is the US.

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

What Kim wants is talks with the US, more aid and to be left alone. He, or rather, the generals want an official treaty to end the 60 year old war. The Kim dynasty is finite. You'll see. There's only so much a people can take. The rulers will eventually start to come in from the cold. Like Burma.

And you're sure this will happen?This is NK were talking about.The rulers will not come in from the cold.It's a country drowned in propaganda.What the middle east had in it's "Arab Spring" was the internet.Most of North Korea doesn't even have electricity.It's a delusion to think someone within the country is gonna stand up to this regime.

o1s1n

old hippy wrote: »

What Kim wants is talks with the US, more aid and to be left alone. He, or rather, the generals want an official treaty to end the 60 year old war.
The Kim dynasty is finite. You'll see. There's only so much a people can take. The rulers will eventually start to come in from the cold. Like Burma.

So your plan is -

Make a deal with a dictatorship which tortures and murders it's civilians on a regular basis, allowing their reign to continue and flourish.

We then sit back, cross our fingers and hope that their dynasty is finite.

Because the above two things aren't at odds with each other at all...

old hippy wrote: »

There's torture and needless deaths all over the world. What are you going to do about them?

Ah the oul 'well it's bad over in X, so why do you care about Y?' argument.

Bad reasoning. We need to start somewhere. Why not liberating the poor folk in North Korea?

old hippy wrote: »

What can be done if apply pressure for dialogue, China is already making noises in that direction, as we've seen recently. As is the US.

All this 'noise' will do is to get North Korea to STFU and stop creating a scene. It's going to do nothing to help the enslaved people of the nation.

Gatling

Only so far
Peace
Love
Weed
Will get the world

7.62 diplomacy is sometime the best course of action for all concerned

Meglamonia

This a special circumstance where an invasion is called for and be on the front foot no messing,wipe the military/top military out.

Conmaicne Mara

China needs to stand up in all of this. Vietnam, China, Seychelles, all Communist countries doing business with us in the decadent West. While I'd be wary of labelling NK as a Communist country, there's no reason they can't ditch all of this bull**** and join the party. But only the Chinese have the power to make this happen.

old hippy

o1s1n wrote: »

Make a deal with a dictatorship which tortures and murders it's civilians on a regular basis, allowing their reign to continue and flourish.

We then sit back, cross our fingers and hope that their dynasty is finite.



We need to start somewhere. Why not liberating the poor folk in North Korea?

Deals are made every day that may appear unpalatable or unfair. Many of them are. Some of these deals are to maintain the status quo, whilst others are to prevent catastrophes.

Lot of "we" in your post.

Why didn't "we" act sooner? Why do "we" sit back everytime this happens? Because it's been happening for years. "We" accept it because "we" know that it's sabre rattling and it's not just another oil adventure. There is nothing "we" can do, realistically.

Good luck, General Osin. Your country needs you :rolleyes:

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

This a special circumstance where an invasion is called for and be on the front foot no messing,wipe the military/top military out.

Jesus Christ on a bike. You haven't a clue, have you? Stop watching Hollywood films and find out what you're talking about.

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

Deals are made every day that may appear unpalatable or unfair. Many of them are. Some of these deals are to maintain the status quo, whilst others are to prevent catastrophes.

Lot of "we" in your post.

Why didn't "we" act sooner? Why do "we" sit back everytime this happens? Because it's been happening for years. "We" accept it because "we" know that it's sabre rattling and it's not just another oil adventure. There is nothing "we" can do, realistically.

Good luck, General Osin. Your country needs you :rolleyes:

Your great to go picking at other people's ideas but where are your own?

Meglamonia

old hippy wrote: »

Jesus Christ on a bike. You haven't a clue, have you? Stop watching Hollywood films and find out what you're talking about.

It will be ten times more effective that what you're saying,which isn't all too clear really,seems like you're leaving it to the power of god.

I haven't a clue what I'm talking about?Ok that's your opinion but it's coming from the guy who thinks "the rulers will come in from the cold.Like Burma"Why don't you go and do your own little bit of research on on North Korea?Because if that's what you think is gonna happen you haven't a clue really,do you?

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

Your great to go picking at other people's ideas but where are your own?

As I said above - what can be done is apply pressure for dialogue, China is already making noises in that direction, as we've seen recently. As is the US.

A damn sight more likely than your Team America/Jerry Bruckheimer scenario.

Again; if you know anything about what Pyongyang wants - you'll know that all this is nothing new. It's been happening for years. NK are seeking closure to the 1953 armistice. They want a new deal, where they can be left alone, without fear of the US or South Korea or their allies. They want to negotiate more aid and be left in their glorious Stalinist isolation. Not ideal, of course but better than the madness you propose. For startes, as much as Beijing are pissed off with the behaviour of Pyongyang at the moment, any attack on NK like you suggest would not be taken at all well in China. So the Chinese have to maintain this awkward balancing act.

Tensions will reduce, as they have in the past and that will be down to China and the US. Not some war hungry folks on the internet who have itchy trigger fingers.

ScumLord

I'm just surprised no one has said happy birthday to Kim yet.

old hippy

Meglamonia wrote: »

It will be ten times more effective that what you're saying,which isn't all too clear really,seems like you're leaving it to the power of god.

I haven't a clue what I'm talking about?Ok that's your opinion but it's coming from the guy who thinks "the rulers will come in from the cold.Like Burma"Why don't you go and do your own little bit of research on on North Korea?Because if that's what you think is gonna happen you haven't a clue really,do you?

Nobody saw the release of Aung San Suu Kyi happening so fast and Burma making its tentative first steps towards democracy. Albeit it faulty and slow but it's now happening. Burma was an isolated closed country, with its own gulags and oppressed people. But it happended through international pressure, dialogue and publicising its plight.

As for NK, I've been paying close attention to it for over a decade. I've stood at the DMZ and looked straight at DPRK soldiers. I've heard all sides of the story and its not as simple as your "durrr, let's invade and wipe them out" schtick :rolleyes:

Banjo String

ScumLord wrote: »

I'm just surprised no one has said happy birthday to Kim yet.

Happy bidet Kimbo!