North Korea v USA Mega Merge.

Agent Smith

NoDrama wrote: »

It's time to call........

Any excuse to play this...

osarusan

NK are posturing.

A big factor in nuclear weapons against Japan in WW2 was to get the Japanese to surrender before the USSR invaded Hokkaido, which they would then have kept after the war.

Initial insistence by the allies, in particular by the USA, that the imperial system be dismantled played a role in prolonging the war too.

HerrScheisse

Why doesn't China invade? They can then put in a puppet government to keep a buffer state that seems to such a must have for Communist states. One nervous trooper on the border could trigger a conflict, and then the decision is out of all hands, so why not make a decision that is favorable. They could sell it to their people that they are "liberating" the North and distract attention from that awkward changeover of power occuring right now.

HerrScheisse

I bet Dennis Rodman is feeling pretty sheepish right now.

Napper Hawkins

HerrScheisse wrote: »

I bet Dennis Rodman is feeling pretty sheepish right now.

I doubt he could give less of a ****e either way.

omega666

old_aussie wrote: »

The Japs started it and the Yanks finished it.

Saved possible 100,000's of allied lives.

Japan would have fought till the last man standing, costing possible millions of Jap lives.

Sure any country could use that old logic to drop an A bomb.
For Example, South Korea sink a North Korean ship in disputed waters,
Are North Korea justified in dropping an Abomb on Seoul to "save a full blown
war and 100,000 soldiers killed"?
India drop an A bomb on Islamabad?

It's a bit weird saying that "those crazy Koreans are the only ones mad enough to do something like this..".

They have the whole world against them with embargoes and threats.. Should they just sit idly by while the US does this many training drills on their border? I'm sure they've noticed how many wars the US gets itself involved in, has noticed a pattern and has no choice but to react.

ScumLord

Surely this would be all the excuse the US needs to start missile strikes on N.K. All Iraq had to do was give the impression they had WMDs and they got invaded, N.K has the weapons and has now said they will use them. I'm sure the US have a plan to take out N.Ks missile abilities quickly, I would think they could end N.Ks nuclear program within a few hours.

It even looks like the Chinese are distancing themselves from N.K now.

paddy kerins

Silly North Koreans

Hoop66

ScumLord wrote: »

Surely this would be all the excuse the US needs to start missile strikes on N.K. All Iraq had to do was give the impression they had WMDs and they got invaded, N.K has the weapons and has now said they will use them. I'm sure the US have a plan to take out N.Ks missile abilities quickly, I would think they could end N.Ks nuclear program within a few hours.

It even looks like the Chinese are distancing themselves from N.K now.

And if the Chinese distance themselves just a wee bit furhter, than what you said re: ending NK's missile program will surely come to pass. US won't do anything while NK is still a "friend" of China.

ScumLord

Hoop66 wrote: »

And if the Chinese distance themselves just a wee bit furhter, than what you said re: ending NK's missile program will surely come to pass. US won't do anything while NK is still a "friend" of China.

I'm sure it will happen, China needs the US more than it needs a communist ally.

old hippy

bizmark wrote: »

I take the word of american military predictions over your feelings any day though btw if you want a really nice example of someone targeting civilians look up the rape of Nanking thats a concentrated horror show costing the lives of more people than the 2 nukes that ended a world war and for no reason what so ever.

I do not weep for the destruction of nazi or empire of japan citys

I do. There were plenty of innocent people, pawn of the military and expansionist governments of the time who paid with their lives for buying into the propaganda of the time.

Visit the Hiroshima peace museum and if that doesn't move you - you have a heart of stone.

old hippy

old_aussie wrote: »

The Japs started it and the Yanks finished it.

Saved possible 100,000's of allied lives.

Japan would have fought till the last man standing, costing possible millions of Jap lives.

Please stop using that word. It's been pointed out umpteen times just how offensive it is. Thanks.

JJayoo

bizmark wrote: »

I take the word of american military predictions over your feelings any day

American military predictions used solely to justify their actions. Plus what kind of an accurate prediction is 250,000-4 million ?

jimmycrackcorm

No wonder KIA give a seven year warranty if they don't expect to be around to have to honour it.

WoollyRedHat

P_1 wrote: »

Strategically it would be suicide for North Korea to do anything of the sort at the moment.

They don't have any allies and have a finite set of resources that can't possibly come near to competing with any of their perceived enemies.

They might have a shot if they took ourselves on but thankfully we are out of their range.

They still have China as ally, despite appearances to the contray. China may be joining in with sanctions and condemnation, but bear in mind they still are trading with N.K and the opposing ideologies of them and S.K and U.S

ScumLord

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

They still have China as ally, despite appearances to the contray. China may be joining in with sanctions and condemnation, but bear in mind they still are trading with N.K and the opposing ideologies of them and S.K and U.S

I'm sure China is beginning to wonder what they see in N.K. Can the military spending N.K would have come close to what the west are spending with China? At best I think they like to keep N.K around to annoy everyone else and have someone else to point to when human rights come up.

hyperborean

Not a chance of the yanks engaging with nk, china wouldnt tolerate it.

ScumLord

hyperborean wrote: »

Not a chance of the yanks engaging with nk, china wouldnt tolerate it.

China couldn't do a whole lot about it. They may have the second biggest army but it's still nothing compared to the American military. Never mid her allies.

hyperborean

ScumLord wrote: »

China couldn't do a whole lot about it. They may have the second biggest army but it's still nothing compared to the American military. Never mid her allies.

The yanks are pussies, like the schoolyard bully, after the bloody nose they got in afganistan I doubt they will try it on for another 10 years and by then china will own them.

ScumLord

hyperborean wrote: »

The yanks are pussies, like the schoolyard bully, after the bloody nose they got in afganistan I doubt they will try it on for another 10 years and by then china will own them.

That wasn't a proper war though. Modern militarys are restrained by the media, they have to do everything by the book and leave the country in a better state than they found it. China could potentially attack the American mainland, I don't think any US citizens would protest to loudly if they thought Chinese soldiers could be landing in their back garden (something that no military since the Japanese has managed).

We haven't seen the American military at it's full potential, all we've really seen is prolonged skirmishes were there is no definitive goal to achieve. War means money to some big American businesses I think that's the major reason they have these conflicts.

P_1

WoollyRedHat wrote: »

They still have China as ally, despite appearances to the contray. China may be joining in with sanctions and condemnation, but bear in mind they still are trading with N.K and the opposing ideologies of them and S.K and U.S

I meant allies in a military sense, sure China is trading with NK but do you think they would joint them in a shooting war if it were to kick off?

Thirdfox

I'm assuming these are AH answers and that's why you're thinking about these "crazy" scenarios:

ScumLord wrote: »

China couldn't do a whole lot about it. They may have the second biggest army but it's still nothing compared to the American military. Never mid her allies.

I believe China's army is still the largest in the world - not that size is a determinative in winning battles. I wouldn't call the army nothing either (especially as if in this hypothetical battle China is mobilising the ground army and not its brown water navy).

hyperborean wrote: »

The yanks are pussies, like the schoolyard bully, after the bloody nose they got in afganistan I doubt they will try it on for another 10 years and by then china will own them.

Doubt China would be in a position to outgun the US for a long long time, equally it's not what their defence policy is - which is being able to patrol its borders and exert influence in its backyard and on its core interests (which may include deterring the US from intervening in a shooting match over Taiwan - said shooting match also not that conceivable either based on facts on the ground).


China has an interest in keeping the world economy chugging along (and buying commodities from China). They have no interest in destroying their debtors/clients/economy over NK.

The shrill people calling for war (even on the NYTimes) is surprising - but the feeling in China is that NK is like a mentally unhinged uncle... he's family, there's a history but you still prefer for the problem to disappear - while maintaining stability.

GalwayGuy2

They still have China as ally, despite appearances to the contray. China may be joining in with sanctions and condemnation, but bear in mind they still are trading with N.K and the opposing ideologies of them and S.K and U.S

You know what, even if China was secretly pleased that America was weakened by a nuke, I think China itself would take out North Korea if it launched a Nuke.

Nuclear Arms is the line that a country never, ever wants another country to cross. Since, no matter how strong a country is, a nuke would damage it physically, but also sociologically.

Also, as much as you may not like this, but America is top dog. If North Korea attacked America, who wouldn't it attack?

But, to actually threaten to launch a nuke at America doesn't show a rational leadership.

BlatentCheek

No matter how China feels about NK it would always prefer it to a unified democratic Korea. China would never tolerate a US aligned state hosting US bases where NK is now. It would be like the yanks being relaxed about Chinese military bases in Tijuana or Ciudad Juarez. Great powers need buffers or spheres of interest to feel secure, whether it's the US meddling in Latin America or the Soviets subjugating Eastern Europe.

Considering that the Chinese were willing and able to keep the US in a bloody stalemate for 3 years in the Korean war, when China was impoverished, lacking military materiel and much weaker than now, I'm sure they'd give it a shot again if they felt it was the only alternative to a US military presence on the far side of the Yalu river from them.

Of course it won't come to that this time, NK is merely waving its atomic willy, it's practically its reflexive response to anything that concerns it at this stage. The Chinese don't want war with the yanks any more than the yanks do but they definitely are testing the limits of their power in the region and in the long run it looks a bit volatile even without having to worry about the silly belligerance of NK

StinkyMunkey

Lol, North Korea are worried about Americans wiping out its population, in fairness, they have been trying to exterminate thier own population for years. I guess protecting your population for some imagined threat is more important than feeding your population.

666irishguy

If the North did fire a nuke it would be game over for them. The US would flatten them conventionally or maybe with tactical nukes. They are dillusional if they think they could get a first strike in on the US. If it deteriorates and comes to a ground war I doubt the US would do little more than send maybe 60-70,000 experienced front line troops to boost however many they have their already. Their biggest support would be to fly and carry out precision strikes and air cover for the South Koreans who have an impressive military in their own right and would easily tear the North Korean's to pieces. China could/would do very little. It's army is massive but it's still a 1980's Warsaw Pact type army that is untested and technologically inferior to the USA regardless of it's own propaganda. It's also got to make sure it can keep the population in it's own country down. North Korean's would probably loose most of their men to desertion once they see half the US air-force overhead. Chinese are no longer the hard core Maoist's of the 50's, they would not risk the money they are making from the west for the sake of NK which is basically a sitting duck playing a dangerous game. If I lived in Seoul I'd consider leaving at the first sign that war is truly possible. As far as I know the North has about 1500 artillery guns that could hit them. They would probably be firing god knows what tipped shells at them too.

hyperborean

666irishguy wrote: »

If the North did fire a nuke it would be game over for them. The US would flatten them conventionally or maybe with tactical nukes. They are dillusional if they think they could get a first strike in on the US. If it deteriorates and comes to a ground war I doubt the US would do little more than send maybe 60-70,000 experienced front line troops to boost however many they have their already. Their biggest support would be to fly and carry out precision strikes and air cover for the South Koreans who have an impressive military in their own right and would easily tear the North Korean's to pieces. China could/would do very little. It's army is massive but it's still a 1980's Warsaw Pact type army that is untested and technologically inferior to the USA regardless of it's own propaganda. It's also got to make sure it can keep the population in it's own country down. North Korean's would probably loose most of their men to desertion once they see half the US air-force overhead. Chinese are no longer the hard core Maoist's of the 50's, they would not risk the money they are making from the west for the sake of NK which is basically a sitting duck playing a dangerous game. If I lived in Seoul I'd consider leaving at the first sign that war is truly possible. As far as I know the North has about 1500 artillery guns that could hit them. They would probably be firing god knows what tipped shells at them too.

Poor deluded soul, VIETNAM not ring any bells.

666irishguy

hyperborean wrote: »

Poor deluded soul, VIETNAM not ring any bells.

LOL Vietnam was 40 years ago. Very different type of conflict. Unlikely the North Korean leaders will be waging a guerrilla war with the support of their own people or the Chinese who would much rather dollars than promoting world communism. Have you heard of Desert Storm? The fifth largest army in the world, apparently filled with die hard soldiers willing to lay down their lives for their glorious leader, was wiped out in 3 days. How long do you think the average North Korean conscript would last when the South Koreans and Americans will be using them as target practice since their own air force was blown out of the sky/shot to bits on the ground about 12 hours into the war?

JJayoo

North Korea would never manage to hit the US with a long range missile, it would be intercepted and destroyed. Seoul on the other hand is a much easier target to hit.