Buying bitcoins

Dohnjoe

makeorbrake wrote: »

The U.S. Dollar remains the No.1 currency of choice for the vast majority of illicit activity in the world.

Indeed, but that's just to do with volume. There will always be elicit activity -
BTC has just shown that it has been indirectly a good vehicle for that activity

Want to buy drugs online? your safest bet is using BTC over fiat. It was the primary currency of the silk road - for obvious reasons.

Naturally that's how it earned this stigma. Again, it's just a side effect of benefits it has, but people will always take advantage of anything that isn't controlled/regulated/accountable/etc

makeorbrake

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Indeed, but that's just to do with volume. There will always be elicit activity

It doesn't matter about volume one jot.
Can both be used for ethical and illicit trade - yes. Bitcoin is at an embryonic stage in it's development - the U.S. Dollar is well established with a long history under it's belt.

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Want to buy drugs online? your safest bet is using BTC over fiat. It was the primary currency of the silk road - for obvious reasons.

Sure, I agree - if you want to buy drugs or whatever online, btc would be more suitable.
If you want to buy drugs or whatever in person, us$ (at least right now) would be more suitable.

Dohnjoe wrote:

Naturally that's how it earned this stigma.

The stigma is being bigged up as shock horror stuff and being over-cooked. I'm sure it also suits the vested interests and/or world view of some to stoke that fire.

Dohnjoe wrote:

Again, it's just a side effect of benefits it has, but people will always take advantage of anything that isn't controlled/regulated/accountable/etc

Yup - and to try and control it would mean that it would have to move from decentralised to centralised - destroying one of the core reasons for the existance of BTC (not the only one - but a fundamental element). That's the trade-off.

scamalert

dark web is advancing think in near future btc will be used more like exchange crypto to another more anonymous ones, was reading article yesterday on Monero, since one market place on darkweb agreed to implement it and its current gross worth is nearly 200mill, since it has better anonymity then btc, where in monero transactions are grouped and cant be traced back to address.and shows that simple darkweb market acceptance can easily boost any crypto in millions.

Another interesting crypto is zcash,was worth only few bucks last year and now its over 60$ ,which basically is totally non traceable back, whatever math used its non revertible as transactions go -not sure is it used anywhere thou.

Since a lot of new cryptos seems placed fixes that btc is flawed with be it anonymity, volume cap.

but none the less main issues remains is all cryptos are tied to being sold of exchanges,which are unsafe,and in many cases require basically a lot of personal details, since p2p solution in many cases is either risky or costs quite overhead.

But think crypto future is quite bright since looking by developments be it better crypto with more security or established like btc, option field to choose and development is growing in general, thus btc while its not perfect but it gave way to what i would say now crypto foundation on which if one fails there will be 100s more to replace it,and choose from.

Grumpypants

I had 0.5 bitcoin and 15 ETH in my account. Now that bitcoin has swung back up over €1000 and ETH back down to €40 I've moved €200 (0.2) of my bitcoin money over to ETH.

If bitcoin drops again I might buy more and top it back up to .5. I think it will continue to track up but with such a low amount invested the boost would need to be huge to see a decent return.

I've over 20 ETH now, so banking on that continuing the swing up especially since the in store point of sale tech is right around the corner which could be the catalyst to go main stream.

makeorbrake

Grumpypants wrote: »

especially since the in store point of sale tech is right around the corner which could be the catalyst to go main stream.

Are there some changes being implemented to Ethereum to make it more beneficial for micro-payments or is it just that ETH is much smaller in terms of volume right now and so it may be able to handle micro-payments right now (in the same way as BTC was previously until it came up against this scaling issue)?

Purely a question - I'm struggling to get up to speed on Bitcoin and have spent very little time investigating Alt-coins.

scamalert

looking for 50e trade if someone is interested,now.PM

DeSelby83

Have been loosely following some of the other coins and it seems litecoin is on its way to activating a segwit. Does anyone think it is a good time to dabble in LTC in the hope that a segwit will bump the price up?

makeorbrake

DeSelby83 wrote: »

Have been loosely following some of the other coins and it seems litecoin is on its way to activating a segwit. Does anyone think it is a good time to dabble in LTC in the hope that a segwit will bump the price up?

Not in any way up to speed on alt-coins but from what I understand, there's some merit in the belief that they're acting as a testing environment for BTC. That's what is suggested here in this instance of testing of SegWit on Litecoin.

I'm unfamiliar with it - but does Litecoin have a current (immediate) scaling issue which would benefit from SegWit? Otherwise, could it be that BTC will be in the stronger position as a consequence of this - as they can evaluate any issues arising before implementing on BTC?

pro_gnostic_8

Litecoin is very close now to Segwit activation (71% signalling today -- will reach the critical 75% in a day or two I reckon). This, no doubt, has driven the sharp price increase.
Now, if imminent Segwit has caused Litecoin to more than double in value in a few days, what would Segwit do for Bitcoin's price!

cnocbui

That would be nice, since I just grabbed some more today. Got them from Belgacoin about 12 hrs after initiating the SEPA transfer, so same day. Rabo seem pretty good at being timely with their transfers, but then they aren't an Irish bank.

Segwit looks to be only 5% behind Unlimited now.

makeorbrake

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Litecoin is very close now to Segwit activation (71% signalling today -- will reach the critical 75% in a day or two I reckon). This, no doubt, has driven the sharp price increase.
Now, if imminent Segwit has caused Litecoin to more than double in value in a few days, what would Segwit do for Bitcoin's price!

Impossible question to answer completely - but is there an expected timeframe that this whole debacle will rumble on for? I guess what I mean is - what sort of duration of testing on litecoin is likely to be needed at a minimum before SegWit could be activated on btc?

There are a few of you here that have followed btc much more closely - and for longer - so you may have a better idea of how these things roll.....

Prezatch

Interesting fact:

If the starter of this thread 'Brendan86' had bought what he said he wanted to buy on the day he started the thread he would have turned 1000 EUR into 25,136 had he sold on 1st of March this year (less some charges and currency fluctuation)... such is the rollercoaster of bitcoin

https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1488409200000&chddm=1858826&q=CURRENCY:BTCUSD&ntsp=1&ei=1_HlWJiqGcaYUM-qmNgE

I'm sure there are others on this forum that have made substantially more from it also

pro_gnostic_8

In early April 2013 I bought 50 bitcoins at $30 each with the proceeds of a very fortunate yankee on the horses. A total cost of $1,500.
By mid-June of the same year the price had rocketed to $100 and at that price I sold out. A return of $5,000 -- a profit of $3,500. I was chuffed to bits.
Then, the bitcoin price really started its rocket to the moon and touched $1,000 just two months after I sold.
I know I shouldn't look at it in this way, but I have always since considered that I lost 46,500 euro over a space of seven weeks. A sum bigger than my entire life savings.
I must be the world's worst "investor".

pro_gnostic_8

The above monetary amounts were actually in euro, but when I try to type euro -- "cntrl / alt + 4" -- it comes out as gobbledygook on here. :rolleyes:

pro_gnostic_8

cnocbui wrote: »

That would be nice, since I just grabbed some more today. Got them from Belgacoin

Looks like you're already up by about 40-50 euro in profit per coin since yesterday. Niiiiiiice.

pro_gnostic_8

makeorbrake wrote: »

Impossible question to answer completely - but is there an expected timeframe that this whole debacle will rumble on for? I guess what I mean is - what sort of duration of testing on litecoin is likely to be needed at a minimum before SegWit could be activated on btc?

But there won't be any testing on Litecoin, makeorbrake. When a 75% consensus or more signals Segwit for the duration of 2016 blocks ( one to two weeks), then, Segwit will be activated permanently.

How long it will take the Bitcoin community to decide on Segwit or B.U., I have no idea. That would be a guessing game or a crap shoot.

cnocbui

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Looks like you're already up by about 40-50 euro in profit per coin since yesterday. Niiiiiiice.

Thanks, normally my investing in something is usually the kiss of death for it, but that certainly was something nice to wake up to.

I just found this, and though aware of the basics, the article really sheets home how your typical greed and the relentless pressure towards monopolistic principles really seems to be behind Bitcoin Unlimited: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/mining-manufacturer-blocking-segwit-benefit-asicboost/

If it weren't for actually having skin in the game, I think I rather like the idea from the developers of re-writing the code so as to pull the plug on ASICS and democratise the mining process again, the way it was originally intended. In which case buying shares in AMD might be a good move, for those able to.

makeorbrake

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

But there won't be any testing on Litecoin, makeorbrake. When a 75% consensus or more signals Segwit for the duration of 2016 blocks ( one to two weeks), then, Segwit will be activated permanently.

My fault for not clarifying what I meant. i.e. that the Bitcoin Core Dev's see the Alt-coins as a test bed - and therefore, this implementation on Litecoin can be seen to them as a 'test' in terms of their consideration of using SegWit on BTC.

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

How long it will take the Bitcoin community to decide on Segwit or B.U., I have no idea. That would be a guessing game or a crap shoot.

I knew I was asking a how long is a piece of string question but just wondered if we could get that to a ballpark figure i.e. likely to be decided upon within the next month, 3 months, 6 months, year, etc.


I started to buy some 6 months post-mtgox - and continued to buy modestly on a weekly basis for the next year and a half. Have not traded anything since in either direction - just held.

cnocbui

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

In early April 2013 I bought 50 bitcoins at $30 each with the proceeds of a very fortunate yankee on the horses. A total cost of $1,500.
By mid-June of the same year the price had rocketed to $100 and at that price I sold out. A return of $5,000 -- a profit of $3,500. I was chuffed to bits.
Then, the bitcoin price really started its rocket to the moon and touched $1,000 just two months after I sold.
I know I shouldn't look at it in this way, but I have always since considered that I lost 46,500 euro over a space of seven weeks. A sum bigger than my entire life savings.
I must be the world's worst "investor".

I have learned to not sell out 100% of positions. Call me chicken.

The Cuban

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

In early April 2013 I bought 50 bitcoins at $30 each with the proceeds of a very fortunate yankee on the horses. A total cost of $1,500.
By mid-June of the same year the price had rocketed to $100 and at that price I sold out. A return of $5,000 -- a profit of $3,500. I was chuffed to bits.
Then, the bitcoin price really started its rocket to the moon and touched $1,000 just two months after I sold.
I know I shouldn't look at it in this way, but I have always since considered that I lost 46,500 euro over a space of seven weeks. A sum bigger than my entire life savings.
I must be the world's worst "investor".

Profit is profit always remember that. Its not easy to predict the crypto-currencies, its speculation. Price could loose 90% of its value very easily if things go wrong or do not get done.
No point dealing in the what ifs.

pro_gnostic_8

The Cuban wrote: »

Profit is profit always remember that.

That's very true.
And there's no room for "what-ifs" when investing. Only anger and self-loathing comes from that.
One important life-lesson that I did learn from the experience is that the TIMING of getting into and out of trades/investments is perhaps the most critical element of all.

pro_gnostic_8

makeorbrake wrote: »

My fault for not clarifying what I meant. i.e. that the Bitcoin Core Dev's see the Alt-coins as a test bed - and therefore, this implementation on Litecoin can be seen to them as a 'test' in terms of their consideration of using SegWit on BTC.

Ah, I see !
What I do think is that a successful implementation of Segwit on Litecoin will definitely spur a move by the majority of the Bitcoin community to execute a similar implementation on Bitcoin and make the B.U. hardfork a non-event. Successful Segwit on Litecoin can only be good for Bitcoin -- both for its implementation and for its future price.

pro_gnostic_8

cnocbui wrote: »

I have learned to not sell out 100% of positions. Call me chicken.

No, I call you SHREWD !
I myself have always been too Risk-Averse as a default position -- in betting, investing, bitcoin. I get out when I see a profit-taking situation, large or small. I get out too early.
I really do need to "man-up" a bit, and grow a pair.

scamalert

cnocbui wrote: »

That would be nice, since I just grabbed some more today. Got them from Belgacoin about 12 hrs after initiating the SEPA transfer, so same day. Rabo seem pretty good at being timely with their transfers, but then they aren't an Irish bank.

Segwit looks to be only 5% behind Unlimited now.

if dont mind asking what bank you go with sepa ?
since done sepa with boi and its now second working day, with belgiacoin processing it, i always put in reference number into descriptor and title field, but seems somewhat low speed processing since losing quite few % over last few days spike.Since first time used it took full 2 working days before it was processed.

cnocbui

I use Rabo bank. They send their SEPA transfers at 13:15 I think, so if you do the transfer before noon, it gets to the receiving bank that day. I think whoever runs Belgiacon might have a day job because the BTC are usually sent out in the evening. Obviously their bank also processes received transfers the same day, so the long delay you are seeing is probably BOI's fault.

I was told some time back that AIB doesn't process transfers until late in the day so the receiving banks are probably shut or closing by the time they get them. AIB even say that processing might take up to 3 days unless you pay them for urgent same day processing, but I suspect most would go the same day, unless they are delaying on purpose to try and encourage people to pay for their urgent service.

scamalert

cnocbui wrote: »

I use Rabo bank. They send their SEPA transfers at 13:15 I think, so if you do the transfer before noon, it gets to the receiving bank that day. I think whoever runs Belgiacon might have a day job because the BTC are usually sent out in the evening. Obviously their bank also processes received transfers the same day, so the long delay you are seeing is probably BOI's fault.

I was told some time back that AIB doesn't process transfers until late in the day so the receiving banks are probably shut or closing by the time they get them. AIB even say that processing might take up to 3 days unless you pay them for urgent same day processing, but I suspect most would go the same day, unless they are delaying on purpose to try and encourage people to pay for their urgent service.

yeah makes sense, prob delay from boi since think their cut of is around 3, then if belgiacoin doesnt opperate in the evening then its next day processing, well at least last transfer went that way that it was full 2 days before receiving.

makeorbrake

Ref. SEPA transfer, the European Payments Council is launching an initiative later this year - SEPA Instant Payments. It will mean that transfers can be made instantly between participating banks (both banks will have to have opted in to the scheme in order for this to work). It applies for transaction amounts up to €15,000.

Not sure on the specific launch date or of the intentions of the Irish banks in this regard. Still, it's interesting to see how traditional banking is trying to react to some new realities.

pro_gnostic_8

Just to give an example of the manipulation in altcoin markets, there will be a Pump 'n Dump of a specific coin on the Bittrex exchange beginning in one hour from now (22.00hrs).
We won't know the coin until that time; it will be determined by a blockchain hash so that nobody knows in advance and cannot pre-empt the moves. I have watched these before without having any financial participation -- the previous ones have seen rises of 300%-400% and then the sudden dump.
Anyway, it might be interesting to watch.

makeorbrake

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

here will be a Pump 'n Dump of a specific coin on the Bittrex exchange beginning in one hour from now (22.00hrs)

The whole pump n dump thing....
Is that geared towards milking people shorting an altcoin? i.e. they start a buying frenzy - others interest is peaked and they buy in - and then the instigators sell out at a higher price?

I've never been able to get my head around shorting - but don't people who short weigh up whether it's worth buying or selling based on something tangible? i.e. something has inherently changed with the coin or the environment in which it exists (examples in the case of bitcoin, Japan officially recognises BTC as a currency, uncertainty over hard fork, ETF proposal turned down, etc. etc.)?
Do folks not weigh stuff like that up and decide themselves whether they believe there's value to be had in the coin or not....or is it pure sentiment??

pro_gnostic_8

makeorbrake wrote: »

The whole pump n dump thing....
Is that geared towards milking people shorting an altcoin? i.e. they start a buying frenzy - others interest is peaked and they buy in - and then the instigators sell out at a higher price?

Aye, that's basically it !