Buying bitcoins

zulutango

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

I'll buy 'em from you via cash at 4% below Spot .............. if you're in County Cork.
I'll buy them at same rate via bank transfer or SEPA, but with escrow. (You pay escrow fee).

Thought you were staying away from bitcoin for 6 months at least

pro_gnostic_8

Oh I'ld be selling them on immediately !
Indeed, I'm not a "hodler" at present and won't be for the forseeable future ............. but nothing wrong with turning a little profit whilst I'm sitting on the sidelines.

makeorbrake

Is there any exchange where it's possible to set up an automated trade? i.e. buy / sell when price reaches X/btc?

In the case of buying, do funds always have to be left on account with an exchange in order to make the purchase? Can there be a commit to purchase / escrow system? I guess the concern here is the vulnerability of leaving funds on account (if the exchange does a Mt. Gox, you're screwed).

pro_gnostic_8

I can only speak for the three exchanges -- Bitstamp, Poloniex, Whaleclub, -- with which I have an active account.

makeorbrake wrote: »

Is there any exchange where it's possible to set up an automated trade? i.e. buy / sell when price reaches X/btc?

Certainly! Just put a Buy or Sell order in at any price you wish -- it will be "queued" and then executed (filled) when the price hits that level.

In the case of buying, do funds always have to be left on account with an exchange in order to make the purchase?

Yes. However, with Poloniex and Whaleclub you can also engage in "margin trading" using leverage. I.E., buy or sell crypto with funds you do not have but with loans. Mainly used by day-traders and highly risky if you make a wrong call. Not for me; I've never used it. Strictly for adrenaline junkies.

Can there be a commit to purchase / escrow system?

Not that I know of. Localbitcoins does have an in-house escrow system for buyers, but Localbitcoins is not an exchange in the true sense of the word.

I guess the concern here is the vulnerability of leaving funds on account (if the exchange does a Mt. Gox, you're screwed).

You're right in haing a concern about this aspect. It is a big concern. Never use an exchange for holding your bitcoin should be written on a Post-It note and glued on our computer screens.

makeorbrake

Thanks for the info pro_gnostic_8. I have FIAT funds that are lingering around and not paying their way. I'm looking at a btc price and I'm thinking there's value to be had (subjective/contraversial - and risky - but that's the conclusion I'm reaching as things stand today). I'd like to leave funds on account and buy once a certain price point is triggered. The fear is that murphys law applies and if the exchange goes south, then so do the funds.

I know it's unlikely but it has happened - and one time is one time too many when it's ones own cash that's being put at risk.


Is there just one type of SEPA transfer these days? I know that the banks used to offer an 'expedited' SEPA/IBAN transfer - but perhaps this was just offered as a means to make revenue off the backs of people who were not experienced with this type of transfer at the time? Otherwise, if still offered, what's the fastest that an IBAN/SEPA transfer can be accomplished in? Perhaps I try and respond to the exchange rate (albeit that the difficulty here is that BTC and crypocurrencies generally are pretty erratic / fast moving...

pro_gnostic_8

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm looking at a btc price and I'm thinking there's value to be had (subjective/contraversial - and risky - but that's the conclusion I'm reaching as things stand today).

Makeorbrake, it's up to you, mate, in the final analysis. But personally, I think bitcoin is only going to continue to tank for the near future. The fundamentals raise too many doubts about it. The congestion in transaction times, the ever-increasing fees, the possibility of a hardfork, the political infighting, the departure of companies from it. (Just yesterday, another top-stream techno company -- Storj -- announced its departure fromthebitcoin blockchain and over to ETH -- ( http://www.coindesk.com/storj-migrate-decentralized-storage-service-ethereum-blockchain/ )
In truth, much of the investment smart money has pulled out of bitcoin a week ago, and has gone into other crypto's like Eth etc or is sitting in fiat. Not a time to buy imo. But, it's up to you.

I'd like to leave funds on account and buy once a certain price point is triggered. The fear is that murphys law applies and if the exchange goes south, then so do the funds.
I know it's unlikely but it has happened - and one time is one time too many when it's ones own cash that's being put at risk.

I hear ya !
I don't like having fiat or coin in an exchange either. When I make a decision to buy, I transfer funds in and buy the coin as soon as possible and then immediately withdraw that coin to my own wallet. Not 100% safe but it minimizes the danger.

Is there just one type of SEPA transfer these days? I know that the banks used to offer an 'expedited' SEPA/IBAN transfer -

AIB still offers a fast-track SEPA but I cannot speak for its efficiency timewise. I just use the Standard SEPA option. The transfer has always completed within one working day.

makeorbrake

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Makeorbrake, it's up to you, mate, in the final analysis. But personally, I think bitcoin is only going to continue to tank for the near future. The fundamentals raise too many doubts about it. The congestion in transaction times, the ever-increasing fees, the possibility of a hardfork, the political infighting, the departure of companies from it. (Just yesterday, another top-stream techno company -- Storj -- announced its departure fromthebitcoin blockchain and over to ETH -- ( http://www.coindesk.com/storj-migrate-decentralized-storage-service-ethereum-blockchain/ )
In truth, much of the investment smart money has pulled out of bitcoin a week ago, and has gone into other crypto's like Eth etc or is sitting in fiat. Not a time to buy imo. But, it's up to you.

Ok, but unless you think BTC is going to become a white elephant, BTC still has a value. At what price do you see value in BTC? I guess I wasn't necessarily talking about investing today - but it's headed towards interesting territory.
Then again, IF I do buy, I'm thinking in terms of holding - not flipping/shorting it.

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

I don't like having fiat or coin in an exchange either. When I make a decision to buy, I transfer funds in and buy the coin as soon as possible and then immediately withdraw that coin to my own wallet. Not 100% safe but it minimizes the danger.
AIB still offers a fast-track SEPA but I cannot speak for its efficiency timewise. I just use the Standard SEPA option. The transfer has always completed within one working day.

I guess I'll have to try and react as soon as possible once I bite on a price. Would be good if these guys had a bank account in every state (of course, they'd need the banks cooperation for that...perhaps that's an issue).

pro_gnostic_8

makeorbrake wrote: »

Ok, but unless you think BTC is going to become a white elephant, BTC still has a value. At what price do you see value in BTC?

Quite honestly, I think the intrinsic value of a bitcoin is nearer the $500 level. I think it is substantially overpriced ........ at this time.

I guess I wasn't necessarily talking about investing today - but it's headed towards interesting territory.

It's in a full-blown bear market. Down another 8% in price today.
This is serious, very serious. And it's tragic. I'm normally bullish about Bitcoin, and I want to see Bitcoin prosper. But this situation at present is not encouraging. Even Circle who were one of the earliest supporters of Bitcoin have yesterday advised their customers to divest themselves of the coin. ""The only way to avoid the potential negative consequences of a bitcoin fork is to not hold bitcoin. Just go to Settings > Currency and convert your balance to dollars, pounds or euro (availability is based on where you live). You'll then be able to hold those funds with Circle or cash out instantly."
There is a general air of despondency and negativity surrounding bitcoin now.

Then again, IF I do buy, I'm thinking in terms of holding - not flipping/shorting it.

But why buy in a Bear market? Trying to catch a falling knife is always dangerous. Wait until the dust settles and until there is some stability would be my advice.

pro_gnostic_8

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

I just use the Standard SEPA option. The transfer has always completed within one working day.

Apologies !
I meant to say "The transfer has always completed by the end of the following working day."

makeorbrake

pro_gnostic_8 wrote: »

Quite honestly, I think the intrinsic value of a bitcoin is nearer the $500 level. I think it is substantially overpriced ........ at this time. But why buy in a Bear market? Trying to catch a falling knife is always dangerous. Wait until the dust settles and until there is some stability would be my advice.

I guess I'll take it to the point where I'm ready to buy - and then ponder on it some more. I was thinking in terms of further substantial falls albeit I'm not sure if I had that figure in mind....food for thought.


As regards circle.com, is it relevant what they say right now? They've pivoted away from bitcoin some time ago. It's pretty frustrating to see. When they first launched, it looked very promising as a vendor who could bring btc to the masses as a cash alternative. They seem to be caught in an identity crisis. What u.s.p. do they have now that they don't involve themselves with btc anymore?

pro_gnostic_8

They do still offer bitcoin wallet and bitcoin storage services even though they stopped selling bitcoin itself back in December. They are a significant player in the global payment/settlement sector. You can still send bitcoin via the Circle system, just not able to buy them from Circle anymore.
But now they are telling their worldwide customer base to sell their bitcoins and get out of the bitcoin ecosystem altogether. Not a vote of confidence by any means.

alb

makeorbrake wrote: »

What u.s.p. do they have now that they don't involve themselves with btc anymore?

... in a thread where today there where questions about how many *days* a SEPA transfer will take. Circles CEO has spoken about how such payments will eventually trend towards zero cost and being instant. They want to be involved in this. I think Circle is already integrated into Imessage on iphones (I'm android) and they continue to use bitcoin in their backend, they just don't want the cost/hassle of all the legal KYC/AML stuff that goes with being a bitcoin vendor.

I probably spam this thread too much already with long posts, but I could write a lot about what's going on in the crytocurrency space right now, it's fascinating. The free market is relentless and unforgiving, a lot of money is changing hands right now, alt-coin bubble? or bitcoin facing real threats?

zulutango

alb wrote:

I probably spam this thread too much already with long posts, but I could write a lot about what's going on in the crytocurrency space right now, it's fascinating. The free market is relentless and unforgiving, a lot of money is changing hands right now, alt-coin bubble? or bitcoin facing real threats?

I'm not alone, I'm sure, in that I enjoy your posts. Spam away! It's all good. Today was an interesting day in bitcoin ..

makeorbrake

alb wrote: »

... in a thread where today there where questions about how many *days* a SEPA transfer will take. Circles CEO has spoken about how such payments will eventually trend towards zero cost and being instant. They want to be involved in this. I think Circle is already integrated into Imessage on iphones (I'm android) and they continue to use bitcoin in their backend, they just don't want the cost/hassle of all the legal KYC/AML stuff that goes with being a bitcoin vendor.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding circles current offering (sans btc) but I don't think they're first to market...whereas they were first to market in the manner in which they originally offered bitcoin, the excellent UI, the security (for newcomers) to store that value in us$/local currency, etc.

As regards KYC/AML, don't they have this administrative hassle with or without bitcoin...

alb wrote: »

I probably spam this thread too much already with long posts, but I could write a lot about what's going on in the crytocurrency space right now, it's fascinating. The free market is relentless and unforgiving, a lot of money is changing hands right now, alt-coin bubble? or bitcoin facing real threats?

What zulutango said - post away. Your posts are of interest - and you seem to have drawn in a few more quality contributors.

pro_gnostic_8

zulutango wrote: »

I'm not alone, I'm sure, in that I enjoy your posts. Spam away! It's all good.

Seconding that !

scamalert

well it took 3 days to get some btc of belgiacoin so not to bad,but sepa is till slow im with boi btw,given price has fallen quite a bit,but this brings a lot of scammers as well,since once price plummeted many people who sell on foums etc become dodgy ****ers-seen guy i bought from yesterday bail with someones 400$ .

while its clear theres a lot of manipulation going on but would consider it normal sell off as well,since cant expect price go up without brakes,and given that BU protocol is flawed and worst case if fork ever happens btc just double up so sell whichever becomes weaker,given it might be worth less but eventually worst doesn't seem bad,if main btc continues.

given price moved quite a bit in last week would be nice to see 600e lvl's to pick up bigger chunks

Iamnotsatoshi

The value proposition of Circle is mobile p2p payments, they began distancing themselves from Bitcoin over a year ago, which is also why they removed support for purchasing it recently. They have stated that they are now building on Ethereum which will soon facilitate micropayments with a lightning network and allow almost instant transactions.

Can anyone see Bitcoin making it through this hard fork without suffering significantly? I def wouldn't be long in these conditions but don't have the balls the short it.. too much uncertainty

makeorbrake

Iamnotsatoshi wrote: »

The value proposition of Circle is mobile p2p payments, they began distancing themselves from Bitcoin over a year ago, which is also why they removed support for purchasing it recently. They have stated that they are now building on Ethereum which will soon facilitate micropayments with a lightning network and allow almost instant transactions.

Well, that's interesting. It sounds like Circle have taken a pretty radical change of course. I'd imagine that their original proposition (which was very welcome to see) was to bring BTC to the less techie. Their user interface was excellent for this purpose and their willingness to store BTC value in US$ would have set BTC newcomers at ease.

I suspect then that they have been discouraged by the recent ramp-up in BTC transaction fees - and between that and holding value in us$ for customers, they couldn't deal with such overheads.
Whist their re-focused proposition is p2p payments, they're going to be ignoring the major force in cryptocurrency.

Iamnotsatoshi wrote: »

Can anyone see Bitcoin making it through this hard fork without suffering significantly? I def wouldn't be long in these conditions but don't have the balls the short it.. too much uncertainty

Long time holder and yet in many ways recent newcomer to the world of investing in BTC - so you can (and should) take my opinion with a pinch of salt. There are many others here who are more accustomed to the workings of this crypto. Notwithstanding that, are all other alt coins not simply a 'lab' for the crypto with the first mover advantage?...i.e. BTC. I guess if the stakeholders involved make a complete pigs ear of it - then it will be usurped. However, otherwise, if something good arises in another crypto, I would imagine that it would be adopted in double-quick time (if it's very existence is under threat).

I'm thinking that btc will overcome this next hard fork and progress from there. I'm not totally convinced as to which side will be the victor but I'm inclined to believe it will be core. Personally, I'm of the opinion that core would be best - provided they can get their fingers out and implement SegWit and immediately afterwards, put in the work to accommodate lightning network - or better.


Welcome to boards, (I.A.N.) Satoshi

scamalert

Iamnotsatoshi wrote: »

The value proposition of Circle is mobile p2p payments, they began distancing themselves from Bitcoin over a year ago, which is also why they removed support for purchasing it recently. They have stated that they are now building on Ethereum which will soon facilitate micropayments with a lightning network and allow almost instant transactions.

Can anyone see Bitcoin making it through this hard fork without suffering significantly? I def wouldn't be long in these conditions but don't have the balls the short it.. too much uncertainty

theoretically if paypal decided to let people do transactions in some crypto now i think circle would have a major problem competing,since seems they future goal is already taken by wu,mg,pp and adding eth to currency pool isnt smth new.since all those companies have issue wich is called T&Cs that many people like to avoid or skip altogether when possible.


edit:also to elaborate a bit on free payments - why do some think that payment fee is an issue,since its ingrained in everyday life now,if you send money to relative do you care if you need to pay 10e extra,when you buy fuel do you take into account that 80% goes into tax of the price,or when ordering item from abroad that you pay vat.Id need to encounter situation where someone goes $hit dude cant give you 5ver since will need to pay fees,when at the end of the month banks charge every account for usage,is that 10-20e is smth that people struggle actually.Since way i see it they say free p2p,but in reality they owe 130mill to three banks that invested into them,now that money will have to be paid back somehow and it wont be free.

note:sorry for clustering text ,been noted some people find it hard to read will try to space out ,to make it more readable in future.

The Cuban

Why is Bitcoin falling so much now? I thought the Chinese could not sell there holdings?

scamalert

The Cuban wrote: »

Why is Bitcoin falling so much now? I thought the Chinese could not sell there holdings?

id imagine if i had over 100k which can be moved on paper or more so over the net,its matter of creativity how one could cash out with little to no bother,short trip to Switzerland,Cyprus etc.

That said one could speculate into oblivion why price plummets now, who ever traded forex in their lives would seen such moves where price moves 100-500 pips in small drops week by week and it doesn't make sense results could be great , economy could be up but it takes its own course and people who make that happen are never known, until seems like your margin is all squeezed out and it turns around without you in it, except its bitcoin market where moves of 20-100$ is average occurrence.

some would speculate its because of the dispute for the fork happening and no agreement being reached, to overreaction by others.

Personally think and its logical that if btc is to be currency it should act like it, and thats whats happening now simple market correction, where people cash out, new blood gets drawn in and back to same old.Since thinking that something would constantly rise for couple years with minimal to no downfall isnt logical,nor sustainable on current model or on any market for that matter.

since clearly btc network is reaching its limits and smth has to be implemented for its future, now anyone smart would cover their positions either way, be it sell and buy back or cash out and prepare for smth else, since network is update due now long time if bitcoin will become bigger.But how, why or when can only be speculated, and btc forums are crazy with doomsday theories and panic atm.

makeorbrake

scamalert wrote: »

id imagine if i had over 100k which can be moved on paper or more so over the net,its matter of creativity how one could cash out with little to no bother,short trip to Switzerland,Cyprus etc.

Why Switzerland or Cyprus? Do they not enforce the same regulations on bitcoin exchanges as other European Countries i.e. Know Your Customer reg's, etc.?

scamalert wrote: »

since clearly btc network is reaching its limits and smth has to be implemented for its future, now anyone smart would cover their positions either way, be it sell and buy back or cash out and prepare for smth else, since network is update due now long time if bitcoin will become bigger.But how, why or when can only be speculated, and btc forums are crazy with doomsday theories and panic atm.

So long as SegWit gets activated in the next few months, then it should be fine.

The price seems to be recovering in the last few hours. Was hoping it would continue to slide so that I could double-down.:D

scamalert

makeorbrake wrote: »

Why Switzerland or Cyprus? Do they not enforce the same regulations on bitcoin exchanges as other European Countries i.e. Know Your Customer reg's, etc.?

Well my thinking here is if say someone wants to open bank account, and is resident outside EU, they would look for account that's able to move large amount of money trough it, and more confident, at least the way it used to be in the past.

Yes price is zigzagging back up again, hoping to put 100e next week into it, so id prefer it would go back to panic mode

scamalert

thinking of buying some more btc, but seeing price jumped back past 1k since late last week, any opinions is it better to hold off and buy it below 1k usd.

Since not sure whats the consensus between core and BU forking, sine seems people eased of, or realized its happening either-way, thus reading tea leaves here

makeorbrake

scamalert wrote: »

any opinions is it better to hold off and buy it below 1k usd.

I'd imagine this isn't an exact science. Pro_gnostic_8 believes that a correction back to $500 needs to happen. Personally, I'd be very tempted to buy in at €600/btc. (but can't claim to know a whole lot on the subject - albeit that I'm learning fast).

scamalert

that was my opinion as well last week wait for retrace to 600 or so, guess gonna sit until tide changes.Since with uncertainty of fork its better to see until decision is clearer.

cnocbui

I half expected it to drop to under €400, but since it has seemed to be surprisingly robust to what ought to have been unsettling news - the freeze at the Chinese exchanges, ETF rejection and now the forking - I just decided to hold. Price seems to have made a couple very brief forays down in the €800s, but now it's up around 5.5% in the last 24hrs.

The Unlimited mob don't seem to be going anywhere in terms of gaining hashing power, having been stuck at 36 - 40% now for quite a few days. Barring anything dramatic on that front and the surprising robustness, I no longer think it's going to go below €850 anytime soon. Pity.

pro_gnostic_8

cnocbui wrote: »

I no longer think it's going to go below €850 anytime soon. Pity.

Yeah, it's looking like that now, isn't it !
Can't explain the exuberance, personally. Okay, Core does seem to be winning the civil war against Unlimited, but even if it eventually succeeds, then, Segwit will not be implemented for a few months at least -- even October perhaps. That's another half-year of uncertainty, high tx fees and transaction times. And then another year before we see Lightning.
I dunno.

By-the-way, WTF is this BitcoinPlus (XBC)? Anyone know? Rose in price by 2,500% in 12 hours yesterday ........ from around $5 to $130. Only 94,000 coins in supply as against Bitcoin's 16 million. Never heard of it mehself before now. :rolleyes:

makeorbrake

cnocbui wrote: »

I half expected it to drop to under €400, but since it has seemed to be surprisingly robust to what ought to have been unsettling news - the freeze at the Chinese exchanges, ETF rejection and now the forking - I just decided to hold. Price seems to have made a couple very brief forays down in the €800s, but now it's up around 5.5% in the last 24hrs.

The Unlimited mob don't seem to be going anywhere in terms of gaining hashing power, having been stuck at 36 - 40% now for quite a few days. Barring anything dramatic on that front and the surprising robustness, I no longer think it's going to go below €850 anytime soon. Pity.

I'm going to hold what I have - (more or less regardless). The imponderable for me is if I double down.

I won't do this until it hits < €600/btc. If that doesn't happen, it's not the end of the world. I still have a considerable position in btc already.


A question for you all....


Internet naturally is a wonderful resource. However, with that comes a lifetimes worth of opinion/information on the subject of bitcoin and cryptocurrencies generally. I'm loathe to use the term 'fake news' (given the author of that phrase). That said, for totally different reasons (given the stuff he brands as fake news is more likely to be deemed to be closer to th e truth than the tripe he supports as 'real news'), there is very much a point here. There is no media without some level of prejudice. However, some are worse than others.

What do you use for information on an ongoing basis with regard to Bitcoin? There are several crypto-currency news specialists online - but it's been pointed out to me that several of these are backed by folks with a particular agenda and financial interest.

pro_gnostic_8

makeorbrake wrote: »

What do you use for information on an ongoing basis with regard to Bitcoin? There are several crypto-currency news specialists online - but it's been pointed out to me that several of these are backed by folks with a particular agenda and financial interest.

Yeah, that's true! Bitcoin.com News is a Roger Ver company and thus heavily skewed towards Unlmted.
CoinTelegraph articles/news comes to me daily via smartphone -- however, some news articles are "paid-for" by vested interests. Same with CryptoCoinNews.

I look every day at the subreddits -- r/bitcoin, r/bitcoinmarkets and r/ethtrader. I find them useful and informed, especially the first one.

And of course, there is www.bitcointalk.org