Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

me89

ttowncat wrote: »

are there any open training nights this week?

Thursday is open

Grats

I'm sure the players must have felt a bit like the supporters in the lead up to the drawn match with some worries regarding the ref. Alleluia, not so this time and I expect a much more passionate display from all our players. From the little I hear from the training ground, all is going very well. Whatever 15 start I would expect that we'll see changes, if necessary, made swiftly this time. In the drawn match Larkin, R Hogan and C Fen were struggling for one reason or another with 15 minutes to go. This allowed the Tipp backs to push forward unchallenged to a large degree. We can't afford a repeat, and I don't expect there will be!

Whiskey Nose 14

Where are savannahcat and pmymurphy gone these days? Two excellent posters that havent been on here in a good while. Could do with some of their good knowledge in the week leading up to the All Ireland.

Whiskey Nose 14

Where are savannahcat and pmymurphy gone these days? Two excellent posters that havent been on here in a good while. Could do with some of their good knowledge in the week leading up to the All Ireland especially with some of the childish slagging remarks going back and forth between a few KK and Tipp supporters over the last 2 weeks or so.

Grats

Whiskey Nose 14 wrote: »

Where are savannahcat and pmymurphy gone these days? Two excellent posters that havent been on here in a good while. Could do with some of their good knowledge in the week leading up to the All Ireland especially with some of the childish slagging remarks going back and forth between a few KK and Tipp supporters over the last 2 weeks or so.

I wondered that myself. The last I recall of them was around this stage before the drawn match when they defended themselves and Kilkenny against the usual suspects. Perhaps they're suffering for their stand.

droppingball

Seems to be a general feeling out there that Henry will start instead of Walter. Very hard to see how this will go, where would he start? Play him centre forward and let him roam or play him full and see if he can create something? The thing is if he picked off a score early doors it would give the team and the fans a big lift but if he struggles it could be a disaster.

One thing I have noticed is that he stays out of the big tackles these days, he doesn't attack the ball with the same conviction, the legs aren't there first and foremost but the confidence and avoiding injuries seems to be playing on his mind. To counter that though I'm sure he would give everything on Saturday as its surely his last shout as it would be sad if he tried to come back next year as another year would be a step too far.

What do ye think could we afford to play Henry centre forward and just let him roam for space and hope his marker tries to follow or will there centre back just sit and mop up everything? He came on centre forward against Dublin when the game was won I might add and scored three points by finding space, I know Sunday is a different proposition but could it work or are we better starting Richie Hogan or Colin Fennelly centre forward? So many questions and Saturday seems a life time away. Whatever happens I hope the King has a smile on his face at 6.30 on Saturday afternoon.

babyjesus14

droppingball wrote: »

Seems to be a general feeling out there that Henry will start instead of Walter. Very hard to see how this will go, where would he start? Play him centre forward and let him roam or play him full and see if he can create something? The thing is if he picked off a score early doors it would give the team and the fans a big lift but if he struggles it could be a disaster.

One thing I have noticed is that he stays out of the big tackles these days, he doesn't attack the ball with the same conviction, the legs aren't there first and foremost but the confidence and avoiding injuries seems to be playing on his mind. To counter that though I'm sure he would give everything on Saturday as its surely his last shout as it would be sad if he tried to come back next year as another year would be a step too far.

What do ye think could we afford to play Henry centre forward and just let him roam for space and hope his marker tries to follow or will there centre back just sit and mop up everything? He came on centre forward against Dublin when the game was won I might add and scored three points by finding space, I know Sunday is a different proposition but could it work or are we better starting Richie Hogan or Colin Fennelly centre forward? So many questions and Saturday seems a life time away. Whatever happens I hope the King has a smile on his face at 6.30 on Saturday afternoon.

There is not a notion that Henry will start! Ideal situation we are comfortably ahead going into the last 10 minutes and he is introduced to say his goodbyes like McGarry in '08 and Hickey in '12, but unfortunately we are not playing Waterford or Galway so i can't see that happening.

Hitchens

If Henry starts or comes on later, does anyone seriously think he won't know what to do or how to play it.............cop lads ffs

Southern Belle

babyjesus14 wrote: »

There is not a notion that Henry will start! Ideal situation we are comfortably ahead going into the last 10 minutes and he is introduced to say his goodbyes like McGarry in '08 and Hickey in '12, but unfortunately we are not playing Waterford or Galway so i can't see that happening.

Intentional or not, that's an insult to the man. If he was with any other county he'd be a definite starter still. We're lucky to have other options but he is most definitely still a viable option to play and make a difference, not just come on for a lap of honour.

realdanbreen

Hitchens wrote: »

If Henry starts or comes on later, does anyone seriously think he won't know what to do or how to play it.............cop lads ffs

Still Hitch, its been a while since he got a start.
Personaly I hope he's on from the start.

babyjesus14

Southern Belle wrote: »

Intentional or not, that's an insult to the man. If he was with any other county he'd be a definite starter still. We're lucky to have other options but he is most definitely still a viable option to play and make a difference, not just come on for a lap of honour.

How is an insult? I've being attending Kilkenny matches for 40 years and Henry is the greatest hurler i've ever seen and i would hate to see him starting and have to be called ashore, which i fear he would be!

IrishAlice

babyjesus14 wrote: »

How is an insult? I've being attending Kilkenny matches for 40 years and Henry is the greatest hurler i've ever seen and i would hate to see him starting and have to be called ashore, which i fear he would be!

Up until the final I would have been of the same opinion but not now.

I'd much prefer to see him start and if he needs to be taken off so be it.

Better than putting him on 4 minutes from the end. I've huge respect for Cody but in my view that was an error on his behalf.

adrian522

The word seems to be that he will start. Padraig Walsh too.

Is the team announced on Thursday as it's a Saturday game?

Nickindublin

Cody will do what's best for KK on Saturday. If Henry is good enough he will start. Same with Tommy. I do believe Walter and Joey will be dropped I think P Walsh will go in for Joey and Henry or J Power will come in for Walter. But make no mistake Cody will only be thinking about winning. Anyone know if KK will name the team Thursday or Friday?

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

How is an insult? I've being attending Kilkenny matches for 40 years and Henry is the greatest hurler i've ever seen and i would hate to see him starting and have to be called ashore, which i fear he would be!

What is so wrong with calling Henry ashore? If any of the lads are not performing you take them off that goes for Henry too. I don't think the vision of Henry going off is as devastating as it was in 2010, to either the fans or players, almost all would expect it.

However the difference Henry could provide for 40 or 50 minutes is that he takes watching. If you don't have one man on him and another very close by he will do a lot of damage. This gives our lads an extra yard or two on the defender who is caught between marking them and doubling up on Henry. If they don't watch him he'll hurt them. If they do watch him it gives others the chance to do the same.

With all the talk about his legs no-one seems to think he can last 70 mins. M Rice said in the paper he's never seen him as fit and I'd have to say I talked to him a few weeks before the drawn game and he looked in great shape. We all know he has the ability so the question is why hasn't Cody started him up to now?

I believe the reason he didn't start him up to the Limerick match was his foot (hairline fracture) was still healing and hadn't trained enough. The only reason he could have left him off the starting 15 for the AI was that he wasn't hurling better than the lads who were starting.

Now I know Wally had a very quite final but I also know for a fact he was hurling out of his skin in training before the first match and probably edged Henry or Padraig out as a result. The fact Wally couldn't transfer his form to the big day is very disappointing to say the least but I also felt from the time I heard the team named that Wally was being put in to disrupt more than to be a scorer. The one noticeable thing is that B Maher who has on Wally a lot of the day also had a very quite day this is the only defence I can offer for Wally.

I think play Henry, he's experience and the attention the Tipp boys will have to give him is worth 3 or 4 points at least. My only previso is not to play him in the corners, put him on at wing, centre or full forward no problem at all.

tbiggertycome

Nickindublin wrote: »

Cody will do what's best for KK on Saturday. If Henry is good enough he will start. Same with Tommy. I do believe Walter and Joey will be dropped I think P Walsh will go in for Joey and Henry or J Power will come in for Walter. But make no mistake Cody will only be thinking about winning. Anyone know if KK will name the team Thursday or Friday?

Supposed to be thursday night after training.

babyjesus14

tbiggertycome wrote: »

What is so wrong with calling Henry ashore? If any of the lads are not performing you take them off that goes for Henry too. I don't think the vision of Henry going off is as devastating as it was in 2010, to either the fans or players, almost all would expect it.

However the difference Henry could provide for 40 or 50 minutes is that he takes watching. If you don't have one man on him and another very close by he will do a lot of damage. This gives our lads an extra yard or two on the defender who is caught between marking them and doubling up on Henry. If they don't watch him he'll hurt them. If they do watch him it gives others the chance to do the same.

With all the talk about his legs no-one seems to think he can last 70 mins. M Rice said in the paper he's never seen him as fit and I'd have to say I talked to him a few weeks before the drawn game and he looked in great shape. We all know he has the ability so the question is why hasn't Cody started him up to now?

I believe the reason he didn't start him up to the Limerick match was his foot (hairline fracture) was still healing and hadn't trained enough. The only reason he could have left him off the starting 15 for the AI was that he wasn't hurling better than the lads who were starting.

Now I know Wally had a very quite final but I also know for a fact he was hurling out of his skin in training before the first match and probably edged Henry or Padraig out as a result. The fact Wally couldn't transfer his form to the big day is very disappointing to say the least but I also felt from the time I heard the team named that Wally was being put in to disrupt more than to be a scorer. The one noticeable thing is that B Maher who has on Wally a lot of the day also had a very quite day this is the only defence I can offer for Wally.

I think play Henry he's experience and the attention the Tipp boys will have to give him is worth 3 or 4 points at least. My only previso is not to play him in the corners wing, centre or full forward no problem at all.

I think the notion that Tipp will double up on Henry is laughable, Cathal Barrett hurled the ears off him in the league final. Why would they need to make special arrangements for him.
I don't think anyone doubts his physical condition, i think the issue is his loss of pace and mobility. He clearly struggled to get to the pitch of the game when he came on against Limerick.

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I think the notion that Tipp will double up on Henry is laughable, Cathal Barrett hurled the ears off him in the league final. Why would they need to make special arrangements for him.
I don't think anyone doubts his physical condition, i think the issue is his loss of pace and mobility. He clearly struggled to get to the pitch of the game when he came on against Limerick.

You obviously didn't read what I said?:rolleyes: I said not to play him in corners as it's the one place in the forwards where you have to out run your man to get the ball 90% of the time. Personally Henry was never a phenomenal sprinter and never had the pace of say C Fennelly he may have lost a small bit of acceleration over the first few yards but other than that he's no different. You also need to remember that Henry picked up his hairline fracture in that match and that Barrett used Henry as his very own personal set of Monkey Bars he spent so long hanging out of him all day. From watching that match back the other day and more so from my recollection of being there Barrett really only out stripped Henry for pace twice and once in fact he swung out of Henry for so long that he beat Henry to the ball. The ref blew a free in and the Tipp crowd went nuts but what the tv didn't show and many didn't see was that Barrett held Henry for 7 to 10 yards while they ran across the square.
He did struggle on the day but if you watch that match back you will see he actually had two lads on him everytime the ball go to him and I thought he fought very well given the attention and the conditions on the day.

dcrosskid

tbiggertycome wrote: »

You obviously didn't read what I said?:rolleyes: I said not to play him in corners as it's the one place in the forwards where you have to out run your man to get the ball 90% of the time. Personally Henry was never a phenomenal sprinter and never had the pace of say C Fennelly he may have lost a small bit of acceleration over the first few yards but other than that he's no different. You also need to remember that Henry picked up his hairline fracture in that match and that Barrett used Henry as his very own personal set of Monkey Bars he spent so long hanging out of him all day. From watching that match back the other day and more so from my recollection of being there Barrett really only out stripped Henry for pace twice and once in fact he swung out of Henry for so long that he beat Henry to the ball. The ref blew a free in and the Tipp crowd went nuts but what the tv didn't show and many didn't see was that Barrett held Henry for 7 to 10 yards while they ran across the square.
He did struggle on the day but if you watch that match back you will see he actually had two lads on him everytime the ball go to him and I thought he fought very well given the attention and the conditions on the day.

Ah come on now, I was there that day too and Henry was more interested in the dragging and pulling as he wasn't able to get out in front of him at all. That free that you said was the right call was a ridiculous decision and you are actually the first person I have heard that has argued its validity in any shape or form. I had a perfect view of it & Henry was trying to run across Barrett's path & somehow the ref thought it was a free in.

As much as I admire Shefflin as a hurler, I would be happy if he did start on Saturday. Everyone is aware of his talent but he doesn't have the legs to start anymore. The injuries have started to weigh up & it's a pity for him but such is life. He may still go out on a high, who's to know but I would be more concerned if Taggy Fogarty or John Power were starting intead.

babyjesus14

tbiggertycome wrote: »

You obviously didn't read what I said?:rolleyes: I said not to play him in corners as it's the one place in the forwards where you have to out run your man to get the ball 90% of the time. Personally Henry was never a phenomenal sprinter and never had the pace of say C Fennelly he may have lost a small bit of acceleration over the first few yards but other than that he's no different. You also need to remember that Henry picked up his hairline fracture in that match and that Barrett used Henry as his very own personal set of Monkey Bars he spent so long hanging out of him all day. From watching that match back the other day and more so from my recollection of being there Barrett really only out stripped Henry for pace twice and once in fact he swung out of Henry for so long that he beat Henry to the ball. The ref blew a free in and the Tipp crowd went nuts but what the tv didn't show and many didn't see was that Barrett held Henry for 7 to 10 yards while they ran across the square.
He did struggle on the day but if you watch that match back you will see he actually had two lads on him everytime the ball go to him and I thought he fought very well given the attention and the conditions on the day.

That's modern day hurling teams defend in packs, in his prime he would have been able to make space for himself against Limerick he wasn't.

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

That's modern day hurling teams defend in packs, in his prime he would have been able to make space for himself against Limerick he wasn't.

Thats fair enough I'd agree with that. He didn't that day but having seen him earlier in the league and Walsh cup he still has the touches, the brain and vision to out fox most defenders. I think if he's on the field for 40 odd minutes he will get opportunities to hurt Tipp and if he gets opportunities there isn't any Kilkenny player I'd prefer to have the options in front of him. The real question is would you play Henry or Wally if you had the choice? If you'd pick Wally I respect that but I'd pick Henry all day long because they seem the only likely options Cody will go with with P Walsh more likely to replace J Holden. Although trying to guess what team Cody will pick is nigh on impossible for the last 3 to 4 years.

Grats

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Thats fair enough I'd agree with that. He didn't that day but having seen him earlier in the league and Walsh cup he still has the touches, the brain and vision to out fox most defenders. I think if he's on the field for 40 odd minutes he will get opportunities to hurt Tipp and if he gets opportunities there isn't any Kilkenny player I'd prefer to have the options in front of him. The real question is would you play Henry or Wally if you had the choice? If you'd pick Wally I respect that but I'd pick Henry all day long because they seem the only likely options Cody will go with with P Walsh more likely to replace J Holden. Although trying to guess what team Cody will pick is nigh on impossible for the last 3 to 4 years.

I agree and would have started Henry the last day. Having watched him with his club I would have no hesitation. If his opponent does manage to counteract him it will follow that that opponent will be kept busy anyway. I would go back to basics and have Henry lead the forwards. No better man at directing operations. And if he does have to be taken off, so what. Wally and M Kelly have had to be taken off in the last two matches.

Whiskey Nose 14

Grats wrote: »

I wondered that myself. The last I recall of them was around this stage before the drawn match when they defended themselves and Kilkenny against the usual suspects. Perhaps they're suffering for their stand.

Its a pity as both contributed greatly to the thread. Its because of genuine people like that I decided to join boards only recently having monitered this thread for a long time. It would be nice to see them come back to drown out some of the childish carry on which has been going on of late which is from a number off posters. Perhaps they got fed up of that too, who knows

Grats

Whiskey Nose 14 wrote: »

Its a pity as both contributed greatly to the thread. Its because of genuine people like that I decided to join boards only recently having monitered this thread for a long time. It would be nice to see them come back to drown out some of the childish carry on which has been going on of late which is from a number off posters. Perhaps they got fed up of that too, who knows

Yes, I agree entirely. Genuine is the word. Hope they're not being punished for taking a stand while the real culprits continue with their antagonism.

Justice for the individual

Grats wrote: »

Yes, I agree entirely. Genuine is the word. Hope they're not being punished for taking a stand while the real culprits continue with their antagonism.

There was childish carry on for a while back, and warnings were issued by the Mods. I was criticised by some posters for offering an opinion and asking them to cool things a bit. I support Kilkenny, go to as many matches as I can including club and underage. I will shout and cheer as loud as anyone, so I don't think anybody can question my support and commitment to the Kilkenny cause.

After saying that, I think that the two guys are genuine supporters and may have got dragged into a verbal batting with some Tipperary supporters who are regulars on this thread.

We have got to be mature about all this and enter into discussions, accepting each other's opinions without too much rancour or taking things too seriously.

I for one, enjoyed their excellent inputs into the discussion, and hopefully we will have them back very soon??

mercury16

Hard to know whether or not to start Shefflin...

To be fair, he cannot keep up with the pace of the game, so he has to stay close to goal or give him a job to wander/ghost into any of the front six positions...dragging the back all over the place and probably chipping in with a few scores...

Starting him centre forward or wing forward on P Maher and have him to wander could do some damage..cos there is no way that they will leave him off thinking he's past it, and P Maher is a very lose marker..

babyjesus14

tbiggertycome wrote: »

Thats fair enough I'd agree with that. He didn't that day but having seen him earlier in the league and Walsh cup he still has the touches, the brain and vision to out fox most defenders. I think if he's on the field for 40 odd minutes he will get opportunities to hurt Tipp and if he gets opportunities there isn't any Kilkenny player I'd prefer to have the options in front of him. The real question is would you play Henry or Wally if you had the choice? If you'd pick Wally I respect that but I'd pick Henry all day long because they seem the only likely options Cody will go with with P Walsh more likely to replace J Holden. Although trying to guess what team Cody will pick is nigh on impossible for the last 3 to 4 years.

I don't doubt his ability but as i said earlier when the intensity was stepped up in the league final and against Limerick he really struggled to impose himself on the game.
However if the rumours are true it seems like he is going to start for Wally. Padraig Walsh and Kieran Joyce also rumoured to have been playing with the A team in training.

tbiggertycome

babyjesus14 wrote: »

I don't doubt his ability but as i said earlier when the intensity was stepped up in the league final and against Limerick he really struggled to impose himself on the game.
However if the rumours are true it seems like he is going to start for Wally. Padraig Walsh and Kieran Joyce also rumoured to have been playing with the A team in training.

I read that from Jackie Cahill too. However I'd heard from last weekend from a reputable source that there had actually been no changes at all to the A team from the drawn match. I hope the Jackie Cahill situation is the truth to be honest I'd prefer to see those lads in although I don't know if Joyce will come in instead of B Hogan as he has suggested.

Hitchens

tbiggertycome wrote: »

I read that from Jackie Cahill too. However I'd heard from last weekend from a reputable source that there had actually been no changes at all to the A team from the drawn match. I hope the Jackie Cahill situation is the truth to be honest I'd prefer to see those lads in although I don't know if Joyce will come in instead of B Hogan as he has suggested.

please, no.................just..........please :eek:

realdanbreen

I just read that article in the Kilkenny People by David Walsh. By Jesus I hope its nailed to the Tipp dressing room door !