Kilkenny GAA Discussion Thread Mod Warning Post # 5885 #4894 & #5202

IrishAlice

Butterbeans wrote: »

Saw this earlier - can't provide a link as I'm a newbie but it's on the Today FM website.
The hurling 15 for 15 with Liberty Insurance. According to them the best right corner back for the last 15 years was Jackie Tyrell. Correct me if I'm wrong, but hasn't Jackie mainly played at left corner back?? Apart from a few matches at CB, that's his position. I think he may have played number 2 for 2011 AIF and Paul Murphy at 4, but he was man-marking Lar that day so it wouldn't have mattered what number he had on.

Anyway I know these things are never definitive and always open to debate, but Jackie must have had some game in the number 2 jersey in 2011 for the judges to say he was the best in that position for the last 15 years. Maybe they'll have him at number 4 too(deservedly)!

Yep he normally plays left corner back, that's the position I put him in when I did my team. Think most people who submitted a team would have put him there!

I voted for Michael Kavanagh in right corner back.

dastardly00

I'd rather have realdanbreen ref it than Barry Kelly :pac:

In all seriousness, Barry Kelly could make a mess of it. This game could be epic. But in order for it to be, the ref will have to let the game flow a good bit. Kelly is unlikely to do so, and he could end up handing out the cards left-right-and-centre.

savannahkat

ttowncat wrote: »

I really like your team here. The great thing about Padraig walsh in league was his pace at getting back and hooking/flicking. I can't see Brian Hogan containing Bonnar for 70 mins and we need someone back there to help keep an eye on him(DOES P WALSH EVER PLAY CENTRE BACK FOR TULLAROAN by the way??!!) While Joey did well the last day I can see Tipp targeting his wing, especially trying to get him to balloon clearances over his shoulder- I can see Bonnar hooking him and Bubbles blocking him!!

Half Forward line-it's hard to know. I feel whoever you stick on Brendan Maher is nearly a sacrifice or at best just to cancel him out. Maybe M Fennelly's height could win a ball over him, or I like the idea of Henry ghosting around him and feeding the other forwards.
Padraig maher has to be exploited for pace- Either Fennellys, or would TJ beat him in the air?
The other backs for Tipp-Bergin, Stapleton, Barret, M Cahill are all serious sticky hurlers so I'd hope someone like Larks or Power could have a go at testing their new full back for faults.

Unfortunately I can't see us winning this one, pack the defence and our forwards won't get the right ball and will be outnumbered. Attack and we're leaving more space for Bonnar and Callanane on two of our slowest backs! And I think the Tipp attack is far better than our own, look at the turn around they put on Galway! and then look at how when Galway needed goals against us the first day and how easily they got them!!

Give over,Jackie will have bubbles in his pocket from the off. Lar wont be inside to long before he runs away from Paul Murphy. Callahan has been trying for years to beat JJ to no avail. Every year since 2009 we hear how the Bonner or Noel McGrath are going to destroy Brian Hogan Ain't happened yet an wont happen either this year. Cillian Buckley is not just a superb hurler he is as tough as they come and nothing will come easy off him. Joey Holden has proven himself and no way if moved out is Bubbles even close to being a player capable of destroying him.
Tipp can have all the plans they like to run at, run over or run through Kilkenny. It don't matter. For any plan to work you must have the ball so where are the great dirty ball winners on this Tipp team while at the same time all nine Kilkenny forwards know how to win dirty ball. Paudric Maher is so totally over rated at this stage it is a joke. He has been tried at just about every back position, hurls great for a game or two gets destroyed and is put into a new position, hurls great again for a game or two until he gets destroyed again and is moved again.We know this Tipp team they are no different to 2009.2010, 2011, 2012, or 2013.

adrian522

Surprised none of the teams posted don't have Colin at CF, I think he has played very well from there this year. Obviously there are a few areas where changes could be made but I don't expect many.

Herity
Murphy JJ Tyrell
Holden Hogan Buckley
Fogarty Hogan
M. Fennelly C. Fennelly P. Walsh
TJ reid Power Larkin

I don't see fogarty being dropped, heirty I think will start though it could lead to problems. Holden should keep his place, I don't like TJ inside but thee forwards will switch plenty anyway.

Shefflin and Taggy are good forward options from the bench.

mercury16

Fellow KK folk need to call a spade a spade here.

KK are not the same team they were in other years and this is not a league final, it's an all-ireland final.
This Tipp team got a great boost by beating Cork, similar to what Cork got last year by beating us, and I would expect Tipp to be gunning for us in Sept.
Granted both teams are nowhere near the standard of '09 and '10, but Tipp beating Tipp will be a monumental task for Kilkenny to overcome in Sept. Past wins count for nothing, Tipp have been improving game after game all year since the Limerick game and have arguably played better against the same opposition than we did.

To date this year, the KK midfield and forwards have been well beaten for long periods of the games, and KK have relied heavily on the defence getting them out of trouble. If KK are to win this I believe that the following team and subsequent changes need to happen.

Herrity
Murphy; Delaney; Tyrell
P Walsh; Hogan; Buckley
M Fennelly; C Fogarty
TJ Reid; C Fennelly; R Hogan
Larkin; R Power; H Shefflin/W Walsh

Subs;
E Murphy; Taggy Fogarty; Tommy Walsh; Walter Walsh; J Power; Kieran Joyce;

Bubbles Dwyer gave Holden a beating in the league final and does not fear him. Also P Walsh tracks back well and has more pace. On the counter side, it's not great to be chopping and changing players from forwards to backs, but for me, it's P Walsh in wing back or midfield for Fogarty. Was not impressed by his display in the forwards. Additionally Tipp will vary Bubbles Dwyer, Bonnar Maher, Gearoid Ryan and Noel McGrath to this position. I'm happy that Holden has the strength and the aerial ability but so does P Walsh's who has pace as well. Note that Limerick in the second half hit every ball down Holden's wing as he was seen as the weaker link in the half back line.

Shefflin has to start on Barrett or Stapleton, with Larks on Cahill if he comes back in again. Alternatively you could put Walter Walsh on him, and bring Shefflin on. It would be better for KK to have Shefflin come on than go off.

Would keep Reid out half forward where he can get into the game. Similar to C Fennelly.

Richie Hogan has been decent at midfield but would still consider him a better forward and we miss his industry in the forwards creating scores.

If Mick Fennelly is fit then it's midfield or centre forward, i'd go with midfield and try and boss the Tipp midfield that were excellent against Cork. But if in the forwards then it has to be centre forward where he runs straight for goal.

I debated whether to put Tommy in wing back on Bubbles and leave his brother go midfield instead of Fogarty but a lot depends on how lads are going in training and whether or not they are carrying knocks.

One things for sure on days like this we miss not having Tennyson and especially Cha Fitz who would easily be the equal of Tipps two midfielders.

Hitchens

mercury16 wrote: »

Fellow KK folk need to call a spade a spade here.

KK are not the same team they were in other years and this is not a league final, it's an all-ireland final.
This Tipp team got a great boost by beating Cork, similar to what Cork got last year by beating us, and I would expect Tipp to be gunning for us in Sept.
Granted both teams are nowhere near the standard of '09 and '10, but Tipp beating Tipp will be a monumental task for Kilkenny to overcome in Sept. Past wins count for nothing, Tipp have been improving game after game all year since the Limerick game and have arguably played better against the same opposition than we did.

To date this year, the KK midfield and forwards have been well beaten for long periods of the games, and KK have relied heavily on the defence getting them out of trouble. If KK are to win this I believe that the following team and subsequent changes need to happen.

Herrity
Murphy; Delaney; Tyrell
P Walsh; Hogan; Buckley
M Fennelly; C Fogarty
TJ Reid; C Fennelly; R Hogan
Larkin; R Power; H Shefflin/W Walsh

Subs;
E Murphy; Taggy Fogarty; Tommy Walsh; Walter Walsh; J Power; Kieran Joyce;

Bubbles Dwyer gave Holden a beating in the league final and does not fear him. Also P Walsh tracks back well and has more pace. On the counter side, it's not great to be chopping and changing players from forwards to backs, but for me, it's P Walsh in wing back or midfield for Fogarty. Was not impressed by his display in the forwards. Additionally Tipp will vary Bubbles Dwyer, Bonnar Maher, Gearoid Ryan and Noel McGrath to this position. I'm happy that Holden has the strength and the aerial ability but so does P Walsh's who has pace as well. Note that Limerick in the second half hit every ball down Holden's wing as he was seen as the weaker link in the half back line.

Shefflin has to start on Barrett or Stapleton, with Larks on Cahill if he comes back in again. Alternatively you could put Walter Walsh on him, and bring Shefflin on. It would be better for KK to have Shefflin come on than go off.

Would keep Reid out half forward where he can get into the game. Similar to C Fennelly.

Richie Hogan has been decent at midfield but would still consider him a better forward and we miss his industry in the forwards creating scores.

If Mick Fennelly is fit then it's midfield or centre forward, i'd go with midfield and try and boss the Tipp midfield that were excellent against Cork. But if in the forwards then it has to be centre forward where he runs straight for goal.

I debated whether to put Tommy in wing back on Bubbles and leave his brother go midfield instead of Fogarty but a lot depends on how lads are going in training and whether or not they are carrying knocks.

One things for sure on days like this we miss not having Tennyson and especially Cha Fitz who would easily be the equal of Tipps two midfielders.

shur Cork midfield or any other line didn't turn up

Grats

Think most of us would like to have R Hogan in the forwards but at this stage way too much has been invested in him at midfield. As much as I would like to see M Fennelly back out there he would need to have much more hurling under his belt to survive there in the Final. I have mixed feelings about Henry, I think he should be started but many feel he shouldn't. Lasting the seventy minutes wouldn't be an issue in my opinion as he has had lots of game time at this stage and you won't find a shrewder hurler. His ghosting around the pitch and his leadership cannot be underestimated.

Even mentioning Cha and Tennyson at this stage is crazy. Cha hasn't played with his club in recent matches and Tennyson is far from inter county standard now.

pat 22

Grats wrote: »

Think most of us would like to have R Hogan in the forwards but at this stage way too much has been invested in him at midfield. As much as I would like to see M Fennelly back out there he would need to have much more hurling under his belt to survive there in the Final. I have mixed feelings about Henry, I think he should be started but many feel he shouldn't. Lasting the seventy minutes wouldn't be an issue in my opinion as he has had lots of game time at this stage and you won't find a shrewder hurler. His ghosting around the pitch and his leadership cannot be underestimated.

Even mentioning Cha and Tennyson at this stage is crazy. Cha hasn't played with his club in recent matches and Tennyson is far from inter county standard now.

That's prob cha that wrote that!!!!!

Grats

pat 22 wrote: »

That's prob cha that wrote that!!!!!

Never dawned on me!

Charlie69

One thing's for certain if we start the final with the same team and tactics as the semi final we are going to lose this All Ireland.

We played some great hurling all through the league and added some great strength to our panel, and while the team was far from settled come the start of the championship, enough players had shown enough to believe we were in good shape.

It is my belief though that cody's failure to see that Jackie wasn't going to work out at centre back early enough has undone a lot of the good work.

The drawn game with Galway or the last ten minutes in particular has caused far too much panic among the KK selectors and has caused them to start from scratch.

For sure changes had to be made for the replay and maybe a player like Holden was perfectly suited to the Galway aerial threat but too many changes were made not only to personnel but to our playing style which has now become far too negative.

To play B Hogan for me you have to play P Walsh and Buckley at 5 and 7 , have M Fennelly play the Defensive MF role alongside R Hogan and that for me offers plenty enough cover to the backs.

If we go out with as negative a set up as we did v Limerick , Tipp will pick off points from long range all day and beat us out the gate because we wont score enough employing those tactics.

Thats my 2 cents

pmy.murphy

Grats wrote: »

Think most of us would like to have R Hogan in the forwards but at this stage way too much has been invested in him at midfield. As much as I would like to see M Fennelly back out there he would need to have much more hurling under his belt to survive there in the Final. I have mixed feelings about Henry, I think he should be started but many feel he shouldn't. Lasting the seventy minutes wouldn't be an issue in my opinion as he has had lots of game time at this stage and you won't find a shrewder hurler. His ghosting around the pitch and his leadership cannot be underestimated.

Even mentioning Cha and Tennyson at this stage is crazy. Cha hasn't played with his club in recent matches and Tennyson is far from inter county standard now.

Apparently theres been some sort of rift between Cha and the Shamrocks and hes been consistently been dropped from the team over the last few matches. Ive heard its because of his attitude and the fact he doesnt seem to take playing for the Shamrocks seriously enough.

citykat

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Apparently theres been some sort of rift between Cha and the Shamrocks and hes been consistently been dropped from the team over the last few matches. Ive heard its because of his attitude and the fact he doesnt seem to take playing for the Shamrocks seriously enough.

Wondered what was up. He wasn't listed at all last weekend.

Grats

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Apparently theres been some sort of rift between Cha and the Shamrocks and hes been consistently been dropped from the team over the last few matches. Ive heard its because of his attitude and the fact he doesnt seem to take playing for the Shamrocks seriously enough.

Initially I thought he was just away on holidays but in last week's program even those Shamrocks players missing were listed as away or injured. No mention of Cha though. Your poste clarifies it.

pmy.murphy

I ve heard rumours as to what the rift is about, and to be honest its not the first time I have heard these rumours and similarly the same issue arose with Cha before last years County Semi final and I heard at the time there was a vote amongst the players whether to play him or not which they voted in favour of in the end. Im sure some of yee could guess what im on about as lets just say the wellbeing of the Shamrocks team doesnt take priority for Cha in the way he conducts himself off the field. Looks like Colm Bonnar is being ruthless with Cha something his predecessors failed to do. It must be serious as hes not even togging out now

citykat

mercury16 wrote: »

To date this year, the KK midfield and forwards have been well beaten for long periods of the games, and KK have relied heavily on the defence getting them out of trouble.

Wouldn't agree with that at all. I think Conor Fogarty has had a great year since his introduction. Richie Hogan is hurler of the year. If anything, the KK forward has been digging the defence out of trouble by tracking back e.g Walsh, Larks, Colin etc.

mercury16 wrote: »

Herrity
Murphy; Delaney; Tyrell
P Walsh; Hogan; Buckley
M Fennelly; C Fogarty
TJ Reid; C Fennelly; R Hogan
Larkin; R Power; H Shefflin/W Walsh

Subs;
E Murphy; Taggy Fogarty; Tommy Walsh; Walter Walsh; J Power; Kieran Joyce;

Bubbles Dwyer gave Holden a beating in the league final and does not fear him. Also P Walsh tracks back well and has more pace. On the counter side, it's not great to be chopping and changing players from forwards to backs, but for me, it's P Walsh in wing back or midfield for Fogarty. Was not impressed by his display in the forwards. Additionally Tipp will vary Bubbles Dwyer, Bonnar Maher, Gearoid Ryan and Noel McGrath to this position. I'm happy that Holden has the strength and the aerial ability but so does P Walsh's who has pace as well. Note that Limerick in the second half hit every ball down Holden's wing as he was seen as the weaker link in the half back line.

Hopefully Murphy starts. Herity was very shaky under the dropping ball. Once a goalie gets the yips, like a golfer it can take a long time to get over them.
Again I thought Holden coped well with the high ball in the second half of the LK game.

mercury16 wrote: »

Shefflin has to start on Barrett or Stapleton, with Larks on Cahill if he comes back in again. Alternatively you could put Walter Walsh on him, and bring Shefflin on. It would be better for KK to have Shefflin come on than go off.

So which is it Shefflin to start or not. My recollection of Shefflin from the League final is him getting a chasing off Barrett. He hasn't started a game for KK since. For me Walter would have to have had a serious upturn in form to make the starting 15.

Hitchens

Herity v Gleeson even 0


Murphy v Corbett adv KK 1

Delaney v Callinan adv KK 1

Tyrell v McGrath even 0


Holden v Dwyer adv Tipp 1

B Hogan v Patk Maher even 0

Buckley v Ryan even 0


R Hogan v Woodlock adv KK 1

Fogarty v S McGrath even 0


Reid v B Maher even 0

C Fennelly v Barry even 0

M Fennelly v Bergin adv KK 1


Larkin v Barrett adv Tipp 1

R Power v Paud Maher even 0

Shefflin v Stapleton adv KK 1


Kilkenny 5 v Tipperary 2

pat 22

Hitchens wrote: »

Herity v Gleeson even 0


Murphy v Corbett adv KK 1

Delaney v Callinan adv KK 1

Tyrell v McGrath even 0


Holden v Dwyer adv Tipp 1

B Hogan v Patk Maher even 0

Buckley v Ryan even 0


R Hogan v Woodlock adv KK 1

Fogarty v S McGrath even 0


Reid v B Maher even 0

C Fennelly v Barry even 0

M Fennelly v Bergin adv KK 1


Larkin v Barrett adv Tipp 1

R Power v Paud Maher even 0

Shefflin v Stapleton adv KK 1


Kilkenny 5 v Tipperary 2

U make it sound very easy !!

pmy.murphy

citykat wrote: »

Wondered what was up. He wasn't listed at all last weekend.

Grats wrote: »

Initially I thought he was just away on holidays but in last week's program even those Shamrocks players missing were listed as away or injured. No mention of Cha though. Your poste clarifies it.

Hitchens wrote: »

Herity v Gleeson even 0


Murphy v Corbett adv KK 1

Delaney v Callinan adv KK 1

Tyrell v McGrath even 0


Holden v Dwyer adv Tipp 1

B Hogan v Patk Maher even 0

Buckley v Ryan even 0


R Hogan v Woodlock adv KK 1

Fogarty v S McGrath even 0


Reid v B Maher even 0

C Fennelly v Barry even 0

M Fennelly v Bergin adv KK 1


Larkin v Barrett adv Tipp 1

R Power v Paud Maher even 0

Shefflin v Stapleton adv KK 1


Kilkenny 5 v Tipperary 2

Personally Id rather see Larkin on Paudie Maher as he is a workhorse

Fort Stranger

What about Lester, he seems to have been forgotten about, surely he should be an option off the bench as well?

Grats

Fort Stranger wrote: »

What about Lester, he seems to have been forgotten about, surely he should be an option off the bench as well?

Off the bench, yes.

savannahkat

Kilkenny team that started the league Final >>>>> Changes suggested (or enforced) by most posters
1.Eoin Murphy>>>>>>>> D Herrity
2.Paul Murphy
3.JJ Delaney
4.Brian Kennedy>>>>>>> Jackie
5.Joey Holden>>>>>>>>>P Walsh
6.Jackie Tyrrell>>>>>>>>>B Hogan
7.Cillian Buckley
8.Michael Fennelly>>>>>>>>R Hogan
9.Padraig Walsh>>>>>>>>>C Fogarty
10.Richie Hogan>>>>>>>>>M Fennelly
11.Colin Fennelly
12.TJ Reid
13.Richie Power
14.Mark Kelly>>>>>>>>>>Eoin Larkin
15.Henry Shefflin>>>>>>>>A Fogarty

Grats

savannahkat wrote: »

Kilkenny team that started the league Final >>>>> Changes suggested (or enforced) by most posters
1.Eoin Murphy>>>>>>>> D Herrity
2.Paul Murphy
3.JJ Delaney
4.Brian Kennedy>>>>>>> Jackie
5.Joey Holden>>>>>>>>>P Walsh
6.Jackie Tyrrell>>>>>>>>>B Hogan
7.Cillian Buckley
8.Michael Fennelly>>>>>>>>R Hogan
9.Padraig Walsh>>>>>>>>>C Fogarty
10.Richie Hogan>>>>>>>>>M Fennelly
11.Colin Fennelly
12.TJ Reid
13.Richie Power
14.Mark Kelly>>>>>>>>>>Eoin Larkin
15.Henry Shefflin>>>>>>>>A Fogarty

We may need to use up to 20 players in the Final. There is around 20 named above and all 20 would do a job for us. The combination and placement is the question. Assuming all will be injury free, it will mainly hinge on who is going well in training. I'm happy to leave it to Cody to pick the starting 15! Switches needed on the day must be made swiftly as we have the panel.

rossmartin

Hi folks,
I have 2 All Ireland Hurling final tickets, Tipp vs Kilkenny.
For sale at face value
Give me a ring or a text if interested or tell anyone who may be interested <snip>
Cheers
Ross

No personal contact details. PM user only.

pmy.murphy

Fort Stranger wrote: »

What about Lester, he seems to have been forgotten about, surely he should be an option off the bench as well?

I agree, it was only last year he was named player of the League. He has been completely forgotten about altogether

Realt Dearg Sec

pmy.murphy wrote: »

I agree, it was only last year he was named player of the League. He has been completely forgotten about altogether

Isn't he team captain? He hasn't been forgotten to be fair, he's just not up to it right now. I wouldn't drop anyone for him right now.

pmy.murphy

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Isn't he team captain? He hasn't been forgotten to be fair, he's just not up to it right now. I wouldn't drop anyone for him right now.

Yes hes captain but hes fallen so far down the pecking order. He wasnt even trusted to be given a proper chance this year. Cody threw in Conor Fogarty into midfield (although hes done well) in the Galway game when we were really lacking in ideas. It was a risk that may have cost us which says how far Lester has fallen down. Just my own opinion

citykat

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Yes hes captain but hes fallen so far down the pecking order. He wasnt even trusted to be given a proper chance this year. Cody threw in Conor Fogarty into midfield (although hes done well) in the Galway game when we were really lacking in ideas. It was a risk that may have cost us which says how far Lester has fallen down. Just my own opinion

Don't worry. If there's a few pts in our favour at the end, Cody will bring him on to take the cup. :rolleyes:

Fort Stranger

Well we will be glad to have Lester in the next year or two when we lose four or five big players so stick with it Lester, and Kennedy, Farrell and co for that matter!

Realt Dearg Sec

pmy.murphy wrote: »

Yes hes captain but hes fallen so far down the pecking order. He wasnt even trusted to be given a proper chance this year. Cody threw in Conor Fogarty into midfield (although hes done well) in the Galway game when we were really lacking in ideas. It was a risk that may have cost us which says how far Lester has fallen down. Just my own opinion

Players' form dips and rises, I wouldn't be surprised if he bounced back and made the team again. Mick Fennelly struggled to make the team when he was captain. Hard to believe that now, the former HOTY and one of the few nailed on starters in the team.

Grats

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Players' form dips and rises, I wouldn't be surprised if he bounced back and made the team again. Mick Fennelly struggled to make the team when he was captain. Hard to believe that now, the former HOTY and one of the few nailed on starters in the team.

Absolutely correct. This has always been the case with the Kilkenny panel and it is the reason why many players are in their early/mid twentys before making it on the team. The level required to make the first 15 has generally been high. Another prime example is Richie Hogan. You wouldn't find a more skilful underage hurler and it took him some time to make the breakthrough. Lester is not forgotten but presently there are others ahead of him. That's not a bad thing for the panel as a whole.