Scrap the Irish Language Commissioner

An Coilean

opti0nal wrote: »

In the light of this development which provides for people who do wish their children to speak Irish, will it now be allowed that other children will no longer be forced into Irish language lessons?

I don't believe so no.

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

I don't believe so no.

Well that's a bit of a double standard. Forcing a language on children is bad don't cha think? Some would say cultural imperialism. :O

An Coilean

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Well that's a bit of a double standard forcing a language on children is bad don't cha think? Some would say cultural imperialism. :O

If I was arguing that Irish speaking children should not be forced to learn English while at the same time arguing that English speaking children should be forced to learn Irish, then you might have a point, but I'm not and you don't.

BTW, I don't believe there is a rational argument that children learning a second or third language is ever a bad thing.

Coles

An Coilean wrote: »

BTW, I don't believe there is a rational argument that children learning a second or third language is ever a bad thing.

Indeed. And the younger they are exposed to different languages the better.

feargale

opti0nal wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with requiring an English-speaker to speak Englsh.

Is that intended to include a native Irish-speaker who has knowledge of English?

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

If I was arguing that Irish speaking children should not be forced to learn English while at the same time arguing that English speaking children should be forced to learn Irish, then you might have a point, but I'm not and you don't.

If monoglot Irish speakers existed you might have a point about me not having a point. As things stand English speaking children must learn Irish and neither the child or the child's parents have any say in the matter.

An Coilean wrote: »

BTW, I don't believe there is a rational argument that children learning a second or third language is ever a bad thing.

There is when they don't want to but you force it into them any way because of your own narrow cultural views. Speak Irish to your gealic heart's content but don't force it on other people.

Iwasfrozen

feargale wrote: »

Is that intended to include a native Irish-speaker who has knowledge of English?

Gone the way of the Argentavis my friend.

LordSutch

Lelantos wrote: »

. . . the last thing I want is for people to view Irish the same way I viewed Latin, an unbearable chore.

I think you've missed the boat on that one Lelantos, Irish has been a an unbearable chore to many tens of thousands of Irish people for
over eight decades now, hence threads like this one! add in the many negative responses from so many Irish people on this thread alone.

Solution; Make Irish a non mandatory subject "A La" Enda Kenny's little suggestion (pre the last election) > this will then attract the kids/parents who do wish to immerse their kids in the Irish language, whilst also keeping out those parents/kids who have little or no intererst in learning Irish.

Just like B&Q, Irish needs to be trimmed, downsized, and concentrated to insure its survival, and ultimately to make it stronger. Currently Irish is spread far too thinly across all pupils and in all schools, with the result that its as patchy as ever, and its still a 'cupla foca' situation for most out there, just as it has been since Irish was introduced in the 1930s, without any real concentration on learning/speaking of the language . . . .

PS, excuse the B&Q analogy )

An Coilean

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

If monoglot Irish speakers existed you might have a point about me not having a point. As things stand English speaking children must learn Irish and neither the child or the child's parents have any say in the matter.

Well for one thing, monolingual Irish speakers do exist, some parents raise their kids through Irish only and let them learn English later in school.
Secondly their existence has no relevance to your claim that I had a double standard.

There is when they don't want to but you force it into them any way because of your own narrow cultural views. Speak Irish to your gealic heart's content but don't force it on other people.

Who have I ever forced to speak Irish?
The only narrow cultural view in this thread is the one where Ireland is supposed to be an English only speaking country where refusing to speak English is an arrestable offence.

Gone the way of the Argentavis my friend.

Are you serious????
There are thousands of Native Irish speakers in this country.

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

Well for one thing, monolingual Irish speakers do exist, some parents raise their kids through Irish only and let them learn English later in school.
Secondly their existence has no relevance to your claim that I had a double standard.

Oh please, there's no way a child could spend five years growing up in Ireland and not speak English. And yeah it pretty much does, if no monoglot irish children exist then no culture is being imposed on them. As we have it now the language and associated identity and culture is being imposed on impressionable monoglot English speaking children. But not the other way around hence double standard.

Let me tell you a story, way back when I was in primary school my teacher would always address me and my fellow border county class mates by the Irish language version of our name. Back at the time I never said anything because I was only a child but God help anyone who would do such a thing these days. Language goes way beyond being purely functional once you start to mess with people's identity and vision of themselves. It's only a small case but I think it points to something much more sinister among the gaelgeoiri. An attempt at cultural revision and to stamp out what they perceive as English influence in Ireland.

An Coilean wrote: »

Who have I ever forced to speak Irish?
The only narrow cultural view in this thread is the one where Ireland is supposed to be an English only speaking country where refusing to speak English is an arrestable offence.

He was not arrested for speaking Irish as has been pointed out to you many times, he was arrested because the guards could not identify him.

An Coilean wrote: »

Are you serious????
There are thousands of Native Irish speakers in this country.

Nah I was messing.

An Coilean

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Oh please, there's no way a child could spend five years growing up in Ireland and not speak English.

I know some of them, is it really so shocking? Ireland is not quite so English only as some of you would like to believe.

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

I know some of them, is it really so shocking? Ireland is not quite so English only as some of you would like to believe.

Don't believe it, sorry not calling you a liar but I don't see how any child could grow up in Ireland and not speak English. There's no liking either way, I'd learn whatever language I though would get me ahead. If France had invaded the UK during the seven years war we'd be speaking French now, so would Canada incidentally.

On another note, what ever happened to that campaign to get Irish on the self service checkouts in Tesco?

feargale

Coles wrote: »

What was particularly embarrassing was when earlier in the thread a Swedish boardsie didn't receive a word of thanks or encouragement for making the effort to learn the language, but was instead attacked and sneered at.

If 'twere thanks or encouragement or compliments I wanted, 'tisn't to this thread I'd be coming.

An Coilean

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Don't believe it, sorry not calling you a liar but I don't see how any child could grow up in Ireland and not speak English.

I don't really care what you can or cant see, its fact.
The vast majority of language contact young children get is with their parents. If both of them speak Irish to the child the they will get little exposure to English before going to school.
You really need to understand that Irish is not just a hobby to these people.

Iwasfrozen

An Coilean wrote: »

I don't really care what you can or cant see, its fact.
The vast majority of language contact young children get is with their parents. If both of them speak Irish to the child the they will get little exposure to English before going to school.
You really need to understand that Irish is not just a hobby to these people.

What about tv? And the outside world? Do these children not play with other children? Do they not go to playgroup?

feargale

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

Gone the way of the Argentavis my friend.

You seem to have misread or misunderstood my question. I referred to native Irish-speakers with knowledge of English, NOT native speakers WITHOUT knowledge of English.

Iwasfrozen

feargale wrote: »

You seem to have misread or misunderstood my question. I referred to native Irish-speakers with knowledge of English, NOT native speakers WITHOUT knowledge of English.

I did, my mistake.

fasttalkerchat

gobnaitolunacy wrote: »

'In one instance an Irish speaker who had been stopped for a minor road traffic matter in Dublin was arrested and detained until a garda was found to deal with him through Irish.'

FFS that's just being a dick.

He probably was just on the wind up. But, what if it was Connemara? In an Irish speaking region it would have been rude for the Garda to speak only English.
In Dublin, while English is the first language its still Ireland. Is it really that mental that someone opts only to use their national language?

feargale

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

I did, my mistake.

So?

Iwasfrozen

feargale wrote: »

So?

so?

StewartGriffin

feargale wrote: »

So?

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

so?

..and so it came to pass that the entirety of boards.ie realised its insignificance and ground to a terrible stalemate...

Iwasfrozen

StewartGriffin wrote: »

..and so it came to pass that the entirety of boards.ie realised its insignificance and ground to a terrible stalemate...

So?

feargale

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

so?

Can you respond to my question, now that you no longer misunderstand it. And it might be a good idea to include, if you can, the post of yours that prompted my question.

awec

An Coilean wrote: »

If I was arguing that Irish speaking children should not be forced to learn English while at the same time arguing that English speaking children should be forced to learn Irish, then you might have a point, but I'm not and you don't.

BTW, I don't believe there is a rational argument that children learning a second or third language is ever a bad thing.

Are you worried that without Irish being forced on children that it would die out completely as a spoken language everywhere on this island except the most ardent Gaeltacht areas?

feargale

StewartGriffin wrote: »

..and so it came to pass that the entirety of boards.ie realised its insignificance and ground to a terrible stalemate...

I suppose that's a perfectly understandable contribution from one most of whose posts are in a thread titled " The oldest celebrity you would bonk." Pe sceal e, ce hi an bhean? Coles cuir Gaeilge ar "bonk" mas e do thoil. Sorry, I have no accent/sine fada on my computer,

StewartGriffin

feargale wrote: »

I suppose that's a perfectly understandable contribution from one most of whose posts are in a thread titled " The oldest celebrity you would bonk." Pe sceal e, ce hi an bhean? Coles cuir Gaeilge ar "bonk" mas e do thoil. Sorry, I have no accent/sine fada on my computer,

My friend, since we are dealing with personal details, why is that you fear the gale so much? Remember the other pigs. Build a shelter from strong stone, not straw or twigs. Then you will be safe from the winds.

Iwasfrozen

feargale wrote: »

Can you respond to my question, now that you no longer misunderstand it. And it might be a good idea to include, if you can, the post of yours that prompted my question.

Now you're the one who got mixed up, me with Optional.

Iwasfrozen

feargale wrote: »

Sorry, I have no accent/sine fada on my computer,

It's ctrl + alt + the verb. ÁÉÍÓÚ.

opti0nal

An Coilean wrote: »

BTW, I don't believe there is a rational argument that children learning a second or third language is ever a bad thing.

But then, it would be reasonable that you would not deny giving the English-speaking child and its parents the choice to decide which other languages to learn and for Irish not to be one of them?

Mr Whirly

I always find it amusing that advocates of the Irish language tend to try and get their message across in the most abrasive fashion and then wonder why people have a hostile reaction.

I worked in a shop in Monkstown years ago and there was a Cumann na Something located around the corner. The attendees used to insist on speaking in Irish to the staff even though they hadn't a clue what they were saying. It got to the point where the staff would have to ignore them to serve other customers in the queue because they'd have to spend ages trying to figure out what they wanted.

They eventually got one of the teachers to come down to complain to me about the behaviour of the staff. She complained in english too. One of the most ridiculous conversations I've ever had with anyone.