By-Election Confirmed for March 27th

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

Its another loony approach to politics but it appears to be completely off the wall.

Speaking of loony off the wall approaches to politics, i heard a right one about healy eames wanting people to register for IP address's. Or maybe cutting childrens allowance for everyone no matter how little they earn while increasing taxes and imposing charges :rolleyes:

Oh heres another one, calling journalists "knackers" for taking a photo of someone getting a cuddle in doha.

Will i continue?

Very classy way of approaching politics alright, stand up politicians they are, a round of applause.

:rolleyes:


Anyway, back to the Meath elections, Vote Ben Gilroy!
He wont insult you, talk down to you and more than likely wont get cuddles in Doha.

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

Speaking of loony off the wall approaches to politics, i heard a right one about healy eames wanting people to register for IP address's. Or maybe cutting childrens allowance for everyone no matter how little they earn while increasing taxes and imposing charges :rolleyes:

Oh heres another one, calling journalists "knackers" for taking a photo of someone getting a cuddle in doha.

Will i continue?

Very classy way of approaching politics alright, stand up politicians they are, a round of applause.

:rolleyes:

It goes to show how uneducated some of our public representatives are when it comes to technology and their idiotic approach. Fraping - being raped online. Shocking behavior. Time to take a stand, etc. Shame your standing on an issue you have no clue about.

Yeah, I ain't hiding the fact that what some of our public reps come out with are face palm worthy (actually have no objection to what Phil Hogan said - he had a valid point).

But they don't compare with some of the rubbish Gilroy comes out with. There is a difference between being completely oblivious to how something actually works and not properly researching it and someone advising people incorrectly on the law, constitution and so on.

DDI had potential. A small bit of potential that is that was never going to last. But this freeman nonsense will dampen any chance of going forward.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

It goes to show how uneducated some of our public representatives are when it comes to technology and their idiotic approach. Fraping - being raped online. Shocking behavior. Time to take a stand, etc. Shame your standing on an issue you have no clue about.

Yeah, I ain't hiding the fact that what some of our public reps come out with are face palm worthy (actually have no objection to what Phil Hogan said - he had a valid point).

But they don't compare with some of the rubbish Gilroy comes out with. There is a difference between being completely oblivious to how something actually works and not properly researching it and someone advising people incorrectly on the law, constitution and so on.

DDI had potential. A small bit of potential that is that was never going to last. But this freeman nonsense will dampen any chance of going forward.

Its an issue i have no clue about? Where do you get evidence to make such a claim?

How is a public representative calling some one a knacker a valid point? Is it not discrimination against travellers that someone uses the term linked to them as an insult?

Did he have a valid point when he told a concerned mother to "relax and feed the children"?
I find your attitude to politics a little disturbing.

Where in DDIs proposals are they forcing or even mentioning freeman ideas?
If DDI get in you and like minded people can hold a referendum on closing out the laws they take advantage of. Even though all they do is ask a few questions and demand answers.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Gilroy? Well that's the end of anyone taking them seriously.

Yer right, Vlad. We should just leave the status quo as is, sure its working fine, pointless changing things.:(

darkhorse

oscarBravo wrote: »

Only if the theory is predicated on the myth of the rational voter.

Actually, its the rational voter that has ensured political family dynasty's have been a mainstay of this little country of ours down through the years, imo.

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

Have you actually read some of the stuff this guy comes out with? He's away with the fairies. Whatever his intentions are, he isn't going to help anyone by spouting mumbo jumbo based on poor understanding of the law.

And while he's not the only person in DDI, it doesn't auger well for them if he's the best they can come up with for their first run in the polls.

Just as a matter of interest, how many government politicians have ya seen trying to help keep people from being evicted from their own home in the past few years.

darkhorse

Robbo wrote: »

Leaving aside the copypasta from the DDI site, the reason Ben Gilroy is castigated is because:

1. He's the candidate in the Meath By-Election, this is the Meath By-Election thread.
2. He's the most public face of DDI. He's a founder member.
3. He's one of only three members listed on their site.
4. He writes a large number of the articles on the website.
5. He's the most recognisable name in a new Party/Service/Whatever you're having yourself, given the publicity he courts.
6. You can't acknowledge his "eccentricity" and then complain when it's brought up, especially when his candidature is DDI's first foray into mainstream politics

I see you're trying to organise a DDI Chapter in the Southeast, I wish you all the best. I do think there's merit in having popular referenda and there is a need to involve the people more. More power to you and the sooner you jettison this Svengali the better.

A Svengali, nevertheless, who would like to see governments held accountable to the people (whether his party is elected or not) who elected them. Are the government, in your opinion, accountable to the people anytime within their five year term? I dont think they are.

darkhorse

Sully wrote: »

Moving onto candidates that deal with facts rather than candidates that deal in fiction...

I thought the same initially re: McEntee but she comes from a political background so she was bound to head in the same career path (nothing wrong with that, we do it on other fields). It turns out that this lady has been involved for sometime and has a degree in economics, politics and law and later completed a master’s in journalism and media communications. Very well qualified and was heading in this direction for sometime.

There are numerous jobs out there where kids have taken over the family business, went down the same line as their parents and so on. I'd be disappointed if they were shoving a TD from the family just to get a sympathy vote and keep the family name to the seat but I don't see anything wrong with it if the TD is up for the job and capable to deliver. I think she will do just that.

Plus, a lot of people moan that young women don't get into politics. Now we have someone who is young and into politics stepping up to the mark - injecting more fresh and young blood into the party and hopefully the government. Stop complaining and let the people of Meath East decide who they want to elect.

I would have to agree with you, Sully, without a doubt that she is qualified, but for her to align herself with a party, any party, where she wont have a say in any vote because of the whip system, is a waste of her talents (remember george lee, they would'nt even let him talk).

darkhorse

Sully wrote: »

Whearas what some of the DDI is proposing is actually that - fiction. Which is why it wont ever lift of the ground. Its another loony left approach to politics but it appears to be completely off the wall.

Tell me if I am reading you wrong, Sully, but your post reads like you would not be interested in government being accountable to the people, as in Direct Democracy. Its not left, its not right, it is more interested in balance in the middle. As regards loony, well if you think it is loony to want some sort of a say in the running of our country, then I guess they are loons, and I am also happy to be a loon under these circumstances.

darkhorse

Sully wrote: »

But they don't compare with some of the rubbish Gilroy comes out with. There is a difference between being completely oblivious to how something actually works and not properly researching it and someone advising people incorrectly on the law, constitution and so on.

This would'nt be the same Ben Gilroy that you are referring to, would it. From where I'm sitting, it definitely looks like he researched it.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=PpUjl4LvQM8

Fr Tod Umptious

darkhorse wrote: »

Just as a matter of interest, how many government politicians have ya seen trying to help keep people from being evicted from their own home in the past few years.

I would image that lots to govt politicians tried to help constituents with such problems, but its not the kind of thing that makes the media, local or national.

But if it did make the media most here would give out about gombeenism and how its not the job of a national politician to get involved in local matters.

Hijpo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I would image that lots to govt politicians tried to help constituents with such problems, but its not the kind of thing that makes the media, local or national.

But if it did make the media most here would give out about gombeenism and how its not the job of a national politician to get involved in local matters.

An empty claim giving the facy that you have to imagine they did.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that a story of a politician helping people in this way would be kept amazingly quiet for this long. Even a leak onto the internet, it doesnt have to be media. Especially seen as they dont all want to be tarred with the same brush.

Any politician worth there salt would be trying to get people on there side, making it known that they are trying to help constituents in difficulty would be a no brainer.

Fr Tod Umptious

Hijpo wrote: »

An empty claim giving the facy that you have to imagine they did.

I find it incredibly hard to believe that a story of a politician helping people in this way would be kept amazingly quiet for this long. Even a leak onto the internet, it doesnt have to be media. Especially seen as they dont all want to be tarred with the same brush.

Any politician worth there salt would be trying to get people on there side, making it known that they are trying to help constituents in difficulty would be a no brainer.

Well I am not willing to sate facts as I do not actually know of any that have taken place.
But then again financial matters are pretty much confidential so it's not for me to know what other peoples financial situations are.
And this confidentiality is probably what keeps this kind of stuff out of the public domain any way, until such a time as the evection happens at least.
But in a country where clientisem is a huge part of of the political landscape I would be quiet odd if a TD was not approached by a home owner requesting help with a possible eviction hanging over them.
And I would also find it odd if said politician did not try and help in some way.

What exactly has this DDI guy done about evictions ?

Hijpo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Well I am not willing to sate facts as I do not actually know of any that have taken place.
But then again financial matters are pretty much confidential so it's not for me to know what other peoples financial situations are.
And this confidentiality is probably what keeps this kind of stuff out of the public domain any way, until such a time as the evection happens at least.
But in a country where clientisem is a huge part of of the political landscape I would be quiet odd if a TD was not approached by a home owner requesting help with a possible eviction hanging over them.
And I would also find it odd if said politician did not try and help in some way.

What exactly has this DDI guy done about evictions ?

If the politicians helped there would be no need for Ben Gilroy to do what hes doing which, as a mere mortal instead of an above the law all mighty TD, is asking questions about laws people dont understand and the courts, the recievers and the banks are taking advantage of that fact.

Then you have people slating him because he challenges these laws and pokes around the constitution, instead of slating the people who made a mess of the laws in the first place. How dare he question anything. How dare any of us question the government for that matter.

I suppose the right way to run the country would be to take everyones income from them and only give them back what they need to survive. Whats that, about 120 quid a week per household in the eyes of the coalition?

Fr Tod Umptious

Hijpo wrote: »

If the politicians helped there would be no need for Ben Gilroy to do what hes doing which, as a mere mortal instead of an above the law all mighty TD, is asking questions about laws people dont understand and the courts, the recievers and the banks are taking advantage of that fact.

Then you have people slating him because he challenges these laws and pokes around the constitution, instead of slating the people who made a mess of the laws in the first place. How dare he question anything. How dare any of us question the government for that matter.

I suppose the right way to run the country would be to take everyones from them and give them back only what they need to survive.

So you want politicians interfering in the way the banks do their day to day business when they are dealing with customer loans ?

Hijpo

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

So you want politicians interfering in the way the banks do their day to day business when they are dealing with customer loans ?

There is nothing stopping them interfering in the way people live there day to day lives so why should banks have the easy ride and support of the government?
Cant justify paying all these extra tax's? tough, your opinion doesnt matter, dont even ask questions, they are taking it.
Not enough money after tax to pay your mortgage? banks are on the way with the power invested in them by the government.

They tax, charge and levie absolutely everything, you cant even wipe your arse without paying 23% VAT. Now people are just supposed to believe there is no money and that saving cannot be made in non essential areas before increasing tax's, implementing new taxes and decreasing tax credits.

oscarBravo

darkhorse wrote: »

Actually, its the rational voter that has ensured political family dynasty's have been a mainstay of this little country of ours down through the years, imo.

I'm sorry, but I have no idea what you mean by this.

rpurfield

Sully wrote: »

Not really, seeing as some of what was proposed within are being implemented or already have been.

Whearas what some of the DDI is proposing is actually that - fiction. Which is why it wont ever lift of the ground. Its another loony left approach to politics but it appears to be completely off the wall.

giving ddi are new and i live in east meath i decided to do some research before i give a vote up to them.to describe them as looney left is wide of the mark imo.there was a twitter feed for their kildare north branch tweeting and retweeting all sorts of right wing tea party esque nonsense which has now protected its tweets after a complaint. https://twitter.com/ddi_kn (see here) their facebook page spends more time moaning that only ff and fg are getting media exposure when i pointed out it detracts from their campaign and i dont see sinn fein or the workers party candidates moaning about coverage but getting on with it a few posters were less than nice about the workers party in particular.

im all for change in the political landscape as its badly needed but the more ive read about ddi the less i like them.they are very wishy washy on a lot of policies and smack of a crowd that will do a labour as in come out with populist slogans etc but if they ever get to the stage where they can hold some power theyll be like everyone else.

Hijpo

rpurfield wrote: »

giving ddi are new and i live in east meath i decided to do some research before i give a vote up to them.to describe them as looney left is wide of the mark imo.there was a twitter feed for their kildare north branch tweeting and retweeting all sorts of right wing tea party esque nonsense which has now protected its tweets after a complaint. https://twitter.com/ddi_kn (see here) their facebook page spends more time moaning that only ff and fg are getting media exposure when i pointed out it detracts from their campaign and i dont see sinn fein or the workers party candidates moaning about coverage but getting on with it a few posters were less than nice about the workers party in particular.

im all for change in the political landscape as its badly needed but the more ive read about ddi the less i like them.they are very wishy washy on a lot of policies and smack of a crowd that will do a labour as in come out with populist slogans etc but if they ever get to the stage where they can hold some power theyll be like everyone else.

How dare anyone have some passion and want air time, i would imagine its more to do with the media trying to play down new parties by not covering them or at the very least giving them a few seconds mention. I doubt sinn fein need air time and the workers party... well... do they want air time?

There will never be change in the political landscape unless the media gives equal time to those who need it and the party whip system is done away with. The media side of things, well thank christ there is social media and the party whip system DDI do not use such a system. Thats one BIG political change for the good for starters.

I doubt they will be the same as all the rest because they give the people the right to recall so if TD's are not doing there job they can be kicked out by the electorate.
They provide the people of ireland with tools to protect themselves against the type of crap going on at the moment, where as the current crowd are only interested in taking things away from you.

darkhorse

rpurfield wrote: »

im all for change in the political landscape as its badly needed but the more ive read about ddi the less i like them.they are very wishy washy on a lot of policies and smack of a crowd that will do a labour as in come out with populist slogans etc but if they ever get to the stage where they can hold some power theyll be like everyone else.

Well, that's settled then. We'el just keep handing every cent over to the people that we have in the hotseat, and be assured that every said cent will be sent out foreign. A logical Irish approach. The more it changes, the more it stays the same.

darkhorse

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

I would image that lots to govt politicians tried to help constituents with such problems, but its not the kind of thing that makes the media, local or national.

But if it did make the media most here would give out about gombeenism and how its not the job of a national politician to get involved in local matters.

Here, pull the bleedin other, its got bells on.:(

Fr Tod Umptious

darkhorse wrote: »

Here, pull the bleedin other, its got bells on.:(

Well as I said before I am not ion a position to give factual evidence of politicians 'helping' constituents that are in mortgage distress as it is not my business to know about other peoples financial situations.

If you watch last night prime time on RTE there was a man who talked about banks and customers coming to agreements on mortgage arrears and one point that was clearly made that the process was very confidential between the banks the customer and other interested parties.
So don't expect a local TD to go shouting their mount off that they helped the Smiths in No13 get a better deal on their debt.

And as I said before clientelism is huge part of Irish politics so I would be stunned if no TDs had been involved in helping constituents with such dealings, to think otherwise would be politically naïve

But then again based on some of your posts I am not convinced of you political knowledge in the first place.

rpurfield

darkhorse wrote: »

Well, that's settled then. We'el just keep handing every cent over to the people that we have in the hotseat, and be assured that every said cent will be sent out foreign. A logical Irish approach. The more it changes, the more it stays the same.

while missing the point that ddi arent offering me definitive answers on things i want to know ie where are they on abortion?where are they on health care?easy to get up on the high horse and say if they get into power theyll set up enquiries into this that and the other but until they come up with some real definitive positions ill be wary

Hijpo

rpurfield wrote: »

while missing the point that ddi arent offering me definitive answers on things i want to know ie where are they on abortion?where are they on health care?easy to get up on the high horse and say if they get into power theyll set up enquiries into this that and the other but until they come up with some real definitive positions ill be wary

Well seen as DDI is all about the peoples position on these issues and giving power to the people to exercise there position, my own views on these issues would be (from what i know of) for a start

abortion, in the circumstance of the child being severly disabled, endangering the mothers life during pregnancy or birth, cases of pregnancy after physical evidence sexual violence etc the parents should be given the choice of aborting the pregnancy in sufficient time where the abortion is as humanly possible to both.

Healthcare, couples over a certain amount of combined income should be exempt from medical cards, single persons over a certain amount of income should be exempt from medical cards, anything to do with physical and mental disabilities would need to be looked at closely, i know people will slam me for saying means testing and how inefficient it is but means testing is the only way to get a true reflection of what is and is not needed per disability.

Again, off the top of my head, thats my view. I suppose a break down of all areas within healthcase is needed to see what are the big drains on finance to work out how money can be saved without slash and cut tactics by someone who is in a better position to finance there circumstances privately without relying on the things they are slashing and cutting.

Whats your views?

Chips Lovell

Hijpo wrote: »

Have you witnessed the rush jobs of our government lately, have you witnessed the changes in laws? have you seen some of bens videos where people arrive with invalid documents or wrongful proceedings, some even commit the same crime you say ben is with "poor understanding of the law" and just turn up because they are told to take that premisses/house from someone and they just expect you to vacate your house without challenging every aspect of the case?

I believe that laws are there to protect people from intentional wrong doings, changing the law to strengthen institutions and weaken the people is disgusting in my view and shows exactly where our "leaders" heads are at and we have no power to contest this? no power to defend ourselves? It frightens me, it really does.

As for there candidate for the first run in the polls, he is popular, fights for the people in financial difficulty (lets face it, alot of people are and even more are in fear of getting there) and the party is officially only about 4 months old, they need someone popular and who is not afraid to challange people on things others would just accept as being true.

The point is that he isn't helping anyone. He's offering people nonsensical legal advice based on either wilful or genuine misunderstanding of the law. While he may succeed in making the sheriff leave to avoid a scene, he only comes back a few days later and repossesses the property. That isn't helping anyone. At best it just postpones the inevitable, at worse he's talking people into more trouble than they're already in.

If you adopt the "well at least he's trying to help people" then someone offering naive people a homoeopathic cure to cancer should be commended as well. At least they're trying to help people, right?

Hijpo

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The point is that he isn't helping anyone. He's offering people nonsensical legal advice based on either wilful or genuine misunderstanding of the law. While he may succeed in making the sheriff leave to avoid a scene, he only comes back a few days later and repossesses the property. That isn't helping anyone. At best it just postpones the inevitable, at worse he's talking people into more trouble than they're already in.

If you adopt the "well at least he's trying to help people" then someone offering naive people a homoeopathic cure to cancer should be commended as well. At least they're trying to help people, right?

Does the reciever have a duty of care to you?
Is it against the law to make sure that the reciever is fulfilling his duty to you and not solely for the banks?

i see no problem with the questions he asks, if he didnt ask these questions the courts, the banks and who ever else could just turn up in the morning and out on your arse you go. He is helping people by letting them know there rights, showing us how the system should operate and how to make sure the system is operating as it should.

For instance he is highlighting the arrogance these sherrifs have and the disregard they have for acting within the laws ie having the correct documents, signed by the correct people, abiding by the constitution set to protect the people etc

if everything was above board with documents and the recievers/sherrifs knew the laws they were operating under then they would not have to leave and come back.

Whats the problem?

darkhorse

Vladimir Kurtains wrote: »

The point is that he isn't helping anyone. He's offering people nonsensical legal advice based on either wilful or genuine misunderstanding of the law.

So, Vlad, is it not a crime offering people legal advice based on wilful or genuine misunderstanding of the law, if it is, could not the Gardai arrest him, and at the very least, is it not an offence to waste the Gardai's time?

darkhorse

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

But then again based on some of your posts I am not convinced of you political knowledge in the first place.

I never professed to have any knowledge of politics. I very seldom reply to a post pertaining to politics unless I research the subject.

Robbo

List of Candidates confirmed:

The candidates are Fine Gael’s Helen McEntee; Fianna Fail senator Thomas Byrne; Cllr Eoin Holmes of the Labour Party; Sinn Fein’s Darren O Rourke; Sean O Buachalla of the Greens; Seamus McDonagh of the Workers’ Party and Ben Gilroy of Direct Democracy Ireland.

The Independents contesting the election are Charlie Keddy, Mick Martin, Jim Tallon and Gearoid O’Brien.

Hijpo, I don't think your understanding of a receiver's duty of care towards the debtor is fully rounded. For a reasonable primer, start here where Ben Gilroy mildly inconvenienced but ultimately failed in stopping a receiver, the cost of which will be added to the debt of the unfortunates relying on his advices. Yes, there is a limited duty of care in certain circumstances but it is dwarfed by the duty owed to the debenture holder.

Chips Lovell

darkhorse wrote: »

So, Vlad, is it not a crime offering people legal advice based on wilful or genuine misunderstanding of the law, if it is, could not the Gardai arrest him, and at the very least, is it not an offence to waste the Gardai's time?

Talking nonsense isn't a crime.