Hare Coursing

Artful_Badger

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Not at all. Firstly there is no paranoia. The squeaky wheels looking to ban this, that'n't'other will, as they do, move on to their next victim once they get their pursuit of choice banned.

What you are seeing here in this thread, I sincerely hope, is the start of all people who enjoy fields ports, defending each others activities, and not just their own.

I don't course, I've never been coursing, but I will throw in my tuppence worth to support them that do because for all I know, it'll be the things I enjoy doing that'll be next on the hit list.

That them on the other side have their nose seriously out of joint because of this, is just icing on the cake.

Yeah you dont sound paranoid at all.

Sparks

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Yeah you dont sound paranoid at all.

If you knew the history involved, you'd know that he didn't.

Conmaicne Mara

Artful_Badger wrote: »

Yeah you dont sound paranoid at all.

Suits you to say that, but go back to the opening post which is connected to ICABS. Them and their ilk would cream themselves to ban everything field sports related.

I'm not particularly bothered by glib internet posts either

Pumpkinseeds

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Not at all. Firstly there is no paranoia. The squeaky wheels looking to ban this, that'n't'other will, as they do, move on to their next victim once they get their pursuit of choice banned.

What you are seeing here in this thread, I sincerely hope, is the start of all people who enjoy fields ports, defending each others activities, and not just their own.

I don't course, I've never been coursing, but I will throw in my tuppence worth to support them that do because for all I know, it'll be the things I enjoy doing that'll be next on the hit list.

That them on the other side have their nose seriously out of joint because of this, is just icing on the cake.

You have just demonstrated my point. I don't know what field sports interest you, however this is a thread about whether or not people support coursing. Supporting an activity you don't engage in, on the off chance that someone may oppose the field sports that do interest you makes no sense.

I understand that you feel under attack, but the thread is about coursing. So long as people continue to attack each others point of view and don't engage in an intelligent dialogue nothing changes. The cycle of suspicion and paranoia on both sides continues in an us and them battle.

I don't oppose hunting or shooting, I'm not a fan of them but if its a matter of control of a species I'd rather it be done as humanely as possible. I don't agree with animals being used in coursing because its nothing more than entertainment for people and an entertainment that I think a lot of people including people interested in other field sports would find distasteful if not cruel.

fourleafclover

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

There is a warning in the OP's first post that the thread is graphic. Many of us have seen graphic images over the years and I suspect that the majority of AHers wouldn't want to see graphic images of animal cruelty. Which I think is why many of the usual Ahers haven't contributed to the thread.You can argue that hare coursing isn't animal cruelty, however outside of this thread many people would disagree with you.

This thread has disintegrated into a paranoid assumption of a perceived attack on shooting/hunting. I don't think it was ever intended to be such. I'm not nor have I ever been a member of or involved with any extremist animal group. I would never condone attacks on people or the release of minks etc into the countryside.

This thread has basically become a farce at this point with anyone opposed to coursing being labeled as extremists or speciest or any number of ludicrous labels people can conjure up. As I said earlier I'm opposed to animals being used in bloodsports for human entertainment. That doesn't make me anti rural life. It seems to have become a grudge match, led largely by a mod from the hunting/shooting forum.

Perhaps the AHers are not contributing because they don't give a crap either way about coursing? Did that ever dawn on you. Perhaps they voted but did not comment, as they are entitled to do so and judging by the poll they are pro coursing. The anti coursing people are getting their knickers in a twist now because the poll is not going the way they had hoped. (I use the phrase anti until you can furnish me with a phrase you would prefer)

I have seen very little comment regarding shooting/hunting etc so I do not think the thread has disintegrated into paranoia etc.

Finally, this thread has been quite good regarding factual debate and yes anti organisations are mentioned and referred too, but do you not realise who released the video in the first place? Perhaps you should read the thread it in its entirity before casting such aspersions.

May I add re the mod, is that person not entitled to their opinion on this thread because they are from a hunting background? The thread was started by a different mod, yet you do not seem to take umbrage with this.

Artful_Badger

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Suits you to say that, but go back to the opening post which is connected to ICABS. Them and their ilk would cream themselves to ban everything field sports related.

I'm not particularly bothered by glib internet posts either

So what ? You'll support anything and everything related to field sports or anything and everything ICABS is involved in ? How does that make you lot any different than ICABS ? Who you claim are against anything and everything related to field sports ?

You all seen ICABS and the paranoia set in and regardless of how you might actually see the sport of Coursing you wont support a ban because of the wider agenda. We've been through all this. This thread ceased to be about Coursing when the hunting crowd mobilised. And you have made it clear your motives for joining in and it isnt to do with Coursing.

Pumpkinseeds

fourleafclover wrote: »

Perhaps the AHers are not contributing because they don't give a crap either way about coursing? Did that ever dawn on you. Perhaps they voted but did not comment, as they are entitled to do so and judging by the poll they are pro coursing. The anti coursing people are getting their knickers in a twist now because the poll is not going the way they had hoped. (I use the phrase anti until you can furnish me with a phrase you would prefer)

I have seen very little comment regarding shooting/hunting etc so I do not think the thread has disintegrated into paranoia etc.

Finally, this thread has been quite good regarding factual debate and yes anti organisations are mentioned and referred too, but do you not realise who released the video in the first place? Perhaps you should read the thread it in its entirity before casting such aspersions.

May I add re the mod, is that person not entitled to their opinion on this thread because they are from a hunting background? The thread was started by a different mod, yet you do not seem to take umbrage with this.

I MADE IT CLEAR EARLIER THAT I HAVE NO INTEREST IN CONVERSING WITH YOU. YOU WRONGFULLY ACCUSED ME OF LYING BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LIKE WHAT I HAD TO SAY. LEAVE IT ALONE.

Conmaicne Mara

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

You have just demonstrated my point. I don't know what field sports interest you, however this is a thread about whether or not people support coursing. Supporting an activity you don't engage in, on the off chance that someone may oppose the field sports that do interest you makes no sense.

I understand that you feel under attack, but the thread is about coursing. So long as people continue to attack each others point of view and don't engage in an intelligent dialogue nothing changes. The cycle of suspicion and paranoia on both sides continues in an us and them battle.

I don't oppose hunting or shooting, I'm not a fan of them but if its a matter of control of a species I'd rather it be done as humanely as possible. I don't agree with animals being used in coursing because its nothing more than entertainment for people and an entertainment that I think a lot of people including people interested in other field sports would find distasteful if not cruel.

Artful_Badger wrote: »

So what ? You'll support anything and everything related to field sports or anything and everything ICABS is involved in ? How does that make you lot any different than ICABS ? Who you claim are against anything and everything related to field sports ?

You all seen ICABS and the paranoia set in and regardless of how you might actually see the sport of Coursing you wont support a ban because of the wider agenda. We've been through all this. This thread ceased to be about Coursing when the hunting crowd mobilised. And you have made it clear your motives for joining in and it isnt to do with Coursing.

Talk around it all night long. I am supporting coursing, end of story

Sparks

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

YOU WRONGFULLY ACCUSED ME OF LYING BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LIKE WHAT I HAD TO SAY

But isn't that permitted under the AH charter?

Cass

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

You can argue that hare coursing isn't animal cruelty, however outside of this thread many people would disagree with you.

More would agree. Matter of perspective.

This thread has disintegrated into a paranoid assumption of a perceived attack on shooting/hunting.

Not paranoia if it happens.

I don't think it was ever intended to be such.

Most thread deviate from their original topic to some extent. natural flow of any thread.

I'm not nor have I ever been a member of or involved with any extremist animal group. I would never condone attacks on people or the release of minks etc into the countryside.

So you would be classed as Anti. Not a derogatory expression merely one signaling your dislike of such field sports. Anti is very different to extremists for the reason you mentioned in the quoted section above.

This thread has basically become a farce at this point with anyone opposed to coursing being labeled as extremists or speciest or any number of ludicrous labels people can conjure up.

Tempers have flared as this is an emotive subject. However it is not one way traffic. There have been less than flattering comments leveled at people involved in field sports for years including murderers, mentally unstable, gun nuts, , etc, etc (not necessarily here). However the terms used (extremists, etc) are directed at the groups that employ such tactics as you outlined above. They are apt. What would you call a group that releases mink without thought for the environment or fauna and their only thought being it's a victory for animal rights. Yes it was for the mink. As for any other fauna it's far from a victory as is evident from the cull the government must now do to reduce numbers and protect natural wildlife including some species on the brink. Or the people at the receiving end of death threats, harassment, bombings, sear campaigns etc.)

As I said earlier I'm opposed to animals being used in bloodsports for human entertainment. That doesn't make me anti rural life. It seems to have become a grudge match, led largely by a mod from the hunting/shooting forum.

What has being a mod on another forum got to do with it. Outside of their forum a mod is another poster subject to the same rules as any other poster. So mod or not is irrelevant. Much like Artful_Badger. Leading the charge for those opposed. Should i factor in his profession, standing on this site, etc?

fourleafclover

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

You have just demonstrated my point. I don't know what field sports interest you, however this is a thread about whether or not people support coursing. Supporting an activity you don't engage in, on the off chance that someone may oppose the field sports that do interest you makes no sense.

I understand that you feel under attack, but the thread is about coursing. So long as people continue to attack each others point of view and don't engage in an intelligent dialogue nothing changes. The cycle of suspicion and paranoia on both sides continues in an us and them battle.

I don't oppose hunting or shooting, I'm not a fan of them but if its a matter of control of a species I'd rather it be done as humanely as possible. I don't agree with animals being used in coursing because its nothing more than entertainment for people and an entertainment that I think a lot of people including people interested in other field sports would find distasteful if not cruel.

You are being hypocritical now toward the poster you feel is wrong. He says he does not go coursing but he does not oppose it due to his support of other field sports.
Yet you do not oppose hunting or shooting yet you do not practice them? According to your own logic you should not be posting on here either?!

Pumpkinseeds

Sparks wrote: »

But isn't that permitted under the AH charter?

Personal attacks on other posters are juvenile and pointless, regardless of whether or not they are permitted under the charter. I contributed an experience and my opinions on a thread. Engaging in an argument with someone who repeatedly accused me of being a liar,particularly by someone with such a juvenile attitude is not something that appeals to me. In the real world I'd just walk away from someone like that, so refusing to engage with them in a thread is no different.

fourleafclover

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

I MADE IT CLEAR EARLIER THAT I HAVE NO INTEREST IN CONVERSING WITH YOU. YOU WRONGFULLY ACCUSED ME OF LYING BECAUSE YOU DIDN'T LIKE WHAT I HAD TO SAY. LEAVE IT ALONE.

No, you actually said goodbye.

I stand over what I said, you kept altering what you said you saw in photos, it went from grins on the faces of people in the crowd to saying that you just focused on what had occured in the picture, I dismantled your argument and showed you were either lying or bluffing. My apologies if the truth hurts.

PS if you feel my posts were inappropriate and were insulting you can flag them to the mod and let them decide. If they want to read the context of the debate and the answers you posted and if the mod decides I was wrong I will apologise.

Conorf1

I went to the coursing in Clonmel this year on Saturday and the Sunday. I'd never been before and had been told the worst and what to expect. 
I decided to see for myself after some of the tv programmes showing a different light. 
I can honestly say over that 2 days there must have been over 120 races and not one hare was pinned or mauled. This was my experience and I thoroughly enjoyed the buzz. I met some people who told me the conservation work done and some of the stats etc. which I found astonishing. I was neutral/slightly against coursing before this visit but most definitely pro coursing after my experience of it. 
From this little experience I can understand why all hunters and coursers will be up in arms defending each other because all what I had previously read and heard had come from anti coursing people and hand on heart from my experience, it couldn't have been further from the truth

Pumpkinseeds

Cass, I won't quote your post as its too long. Not liking hunting or shooting doesn't make people extremists. I wouldn't accuse people who engage in field sports of being murderers etc. As I said I don't condone attacks on people. I don't see how people attacking hunts etc does anything but endanger both people and animals.

I don't like a lot of things in life but I don't think they should be banned just because I don't like them. I'm not trying to offend anyone. I'm simply making the point that I don't agree with animals being used in coursing. I also said that I can understand that people involved in hunting/shooting may support others involved in coursing due to a feeling of being attacked by non supporters.

Most people who don't live in rural areas have no real idea of what goes on with field sports. My own experiences of hunting/shooting are just of my uncle coming home with rabbits and cleaning his gun. I also gave up horse riding as a youngster as I was put under a lot of pressure to get involved with the hunt. Its not about who wins a poll, thats irrelevant at this point. I think people should be honest about their true opinions.

It might be more beneficial to people who hunt/shoot to contribute more in a different After hours thread about how they feel about their sports and why they feel that they are under attack. That way people would learn more about field sports and people could engage in a meaningful discussion. Most Ahers don't visit the hunting/shooting forum. Maybe if there were a genuine discussion thread outside of hunting/shooting people could form informed opinions rather than being influenced by extremists on either side.

fourleafclover

Conorf1 wrote: »

I went to the coursing in Clonmel this year on Saturday and the Sunday. I'd never been before and had been told the worst and what to expect. 
I decided to see for myself after some of the tv programmes showing a different light. 
I can honestly say over that 2 days there must have been over 120 races and not one hare was pinned or mauled. This was my experience and I thoroughly enjoyed the buzz. I met some people who told me the conservation work done and some of the stats etc. which I found astonishing. I was neutral/slightly against coursing before this visit but most definitely pro coursing after my experience of it. 
From this little experience I can understand why all hunters and coursers will be up in arms defending each other because all what I had previously read and heard had come from anti coursing people and hand on heart from my experience, it couldn't have been further from the truth

Great to see a bit of honesty coming through from someone impartial.

A word of warning though, as a new member you are going to get abuse any time soon about it being a coincidence that you become a new member and post on coursing! And they try to label hunting/shooting/coursing folk paranoid!! lol

Micky Dolenz

Conorf1 wrote: »

I went to the coursing in Clonmel this year on Saturday and the Sunday. I'd never been before and had been told the worst and what to expect.
I decided to see for myself after some of the tv programmes showing a different light.
I can honestly say over that 2 days there must have been over 120 races and not one hare was pinned or mauled. This was my experience and I thoroughly enjoyed the buzz. I met some people who told me the conservation work done and some of the stats etc. which I found astonishing. I was neutral/slightly against coursing before this visit but most definitely pro coursing after my experience of it.
From this little experience I can understand why all hunters and coursers will be up in arms defending each other because all what I had previously read and heard had come from anti coursing people and hand on heart from my experience, it couldn't have been further from the truth

fourleafclover wrote: »

Great to see a bit of honesty coming through from someone impartial.

A word of warning though, as a new member you are going to get abuse any time soon about it being a coincidence that you become a new member and post on coursing! And they try to label hunting/shooting/coursing folk paranoid!! lol

Mod

Please do not post on this thread again pending Admin review.

Thanks

Cass

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

Cass, I won't quote your post as its too long.

I can ramble with the best of them.

Not liking hunting or shooting doesn't make people extremists.

Correct. Nor would i refer to those opposed to hunting in any of it's form as such. When i use the word extremist i refer to the peopl so blinded by the fight they do not stop to consider the consequences. The oes that would endanger animals, and people to "strike a blow". They are extremists is every sense of the word.

I use the word anti, in a non derogatory way, to describe the general population of anti hunting people. People that dislike it, voice their dislike, but do not engage in such extremist methods to get their point across.

I wouldn't accuse people who engage in field sports of being murderers etc.

It has been done though, and not once. We find it as distasteful as you or anyone opposed to hunting being described as extremists.

I'm simply making the point that I don't agree with animals being used in coursing.

As is your prerogative.

I also said that I can understand that people involved in hunting/shooting may support others involved in coursing due to a feeling of being attacked by non supporters.

We do not support any activity without being fully informed or for the sake of a row/argument. We do so to defend a tradition, and way of life that while not liked by some, or pursued by others is non the less their legal right.

Most people who don't live in rural areas have no real idea of what goes on with field sports.

I would disagree with that sentiment. No one truly knows the opinions or beliefs of all people, however from my own perspective i would say that 90% of poeple i know, am related to, am friends with, have experienced some form of field sports.

I think people should be honest about their true opinions.

It might be more beneficial to people who hunt/shoot to contribute more in a different After hours thread about how they feel about their sports and why they feel that they are under attack. That way people would learn more about field sports and people could engage in a meaningful discussion. Most Ahers don't visit the hunting/shooting forum. Maybe if there were a genuine discussion thread outside of hunting/shooting people could form informed opinions rather than being influenced by extremists on either side.

I agree with the sentiment. Open, honest discussion is good, but it rarely lasts. Both sides defend their opinions/beliefs strongly, and this always boils over. However i would argue your point about estremists on pro shooting/hunting/coursing side. We do not force our will on others to the pint that we actively seek confrontation IRL. We do not send out unsolicited e-mails, tweets, letters to people's homes, businesses, etc. We do not threaten or damage goods, property, and so on.

Now i do not dare say this is the case with everyone opposed to such endeavours. Far from it. Most are calm, intelligent people able to put their point across in reasoned debate. However those that do act in such a manner destroy any forward movement you may gain or at the very least alienate and diminish the message you try to get across.

OldNotWIse

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Really, best you could do?

When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.

This post makes no sense to me...

It's almost like people are more worried about the last word or something, than whats actually being discussed...unprecedented on Boards of course

OldNotWIse

wexfordman wrote: »

Seriously dude!! You might wanna revist the thread to which I replied to and reword the one above.

What exactly did your initial post bring to the table, specificly in response to my post I mean ?

Dude??? Have I gone back in time?

Hey Ted, leave them bunnies alone lol

OldNotWIse

Play To Kill wrote: »

The poll has been up 5 days, if the majority of people were against coursing then surely the poll figures would reflect this by now even if the members of the hunting forum reacted sharply.

Not everybody is on boards.

When I told my friend I was on here she looked at me lke I had two heads and said , "seriously? you try to reason with boardsies?" - some people are just not into it.

It's hardly, therefore, a red sea poll.

Play To Kill

OldNotWIse wrote: »

Not everybody is on boards.

When I told my friend I was on here she looked at me lke I had two heads and said , "seriously? you try to reason with boardsies?" - some people are just not into it.

It's hardly, therefore, a red sea poll.

Thats exactly my point, there are only a handful of hunters on boards and they couldn't have skewed the poll to such an extent that after 6 days the poll reflects more people in favor of coursing than are not. Some people just can't accept that and have used the hunting forum as an excuse for the figures being as they are. I'm sure they would find it impossible to believe that someone like me, who doesn't course, hunt, shoot or live in the countryside, would have voted no to a ban. The anti side seem to think everybody bar these groups would naturally be anti coursing but thats not the case.

OldNotWIse

Play To Kill wrote: »

Thats exactly my point, there are only a handful of hunters on boards and they couldn't have skewed the poll to such an extent that after 6 days the poll reflects more people in favor of coursing than are not. Some people just can't accept that and have used the hunting forum as an excuse for the figures being as they are. I'm sure they would find it impossible to believe that someone like me, who doesn't course, hunt, shoot or live in the countryside, would have voted no to a ban. The anti side seem to think everybody bar these groups would naturally be anti coursing but thats not the case.

I think most people just dont really care either way, or have different motives. For example, some of the farmers in my parents area are against hunting deer etc but its because they dont want people trespassing on their land.

Ush1

Interesting poll results especially considering how many have voted.

I'm personally against any sport which involves terrifying an animal needlessly.

smash

Play To Kill wrote: »

Thats exactly my point, there are only a handful of hunters on boards and they couldn't have skewed the poll to such an extent that after 6 days the poll reflects more people in favor of coursing than are not. Some people just can't accept that and have used the hunting forum as an excuse for the figures being as they are.

Before there was a thread in the hunting forum which pointed this one out, the majority were against it.

Play To Kill

The margin was quite small though and its been six days since that thread, if the anti side are to be believed then the figures would not be as they are now.

Conmaicne Mara

OldNotWIse wrote: »

This post makes no sense to me...

It's almost like people are more worried about the last word or something, than whats actually being discussed...unprecedented on Boards of course

Let me be clearer then, you quoted my post which was in reply to a post saying farmers should be coursed. Your post contained nonsense in regard to the post I had quoted about coursing feeding the country.

But, you know all this, you're just trolling me.

GoldCobra

The poll doesn't matter tbh. Even if the poll was 99% Pro coursing I'd still think that coursing is wrong and I'm sure there is someone at the opposite end too.
What sucks is how people on both side of the argument are making wild accusations and stereotypes about both parties.

Reindeer

The rescue I volunteer for has taken in dozens of Coursing hounds in the last couple of months from this years batch, not to mention the dozens more from racing. There are a few good trainers that will hand over the hounds that do not make the cut or that do not earn them any money. Some are brought to us by folks whom have found them dumped in the country or cities. Some we are called out to that can barely lift their heads for having been abused or out in the cold too long without shelter or food. However, we almost never see young pups that haven't made the grade at all, and they often just cull/kill the wounded. Ireland is now one of the top, if not the top producers of Greyhounds in the world. Say what you want about the sport - it is a blood sport, and the hounds suffer horrendously for it. I see it every day of my life here in Ireland. Every damn day.

Conmaicne Mara

Isn't it ironic how a poll is suddenly irrelevant when it doesn't go someones way.