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Future in Suckling Farming

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1235

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    #122
    Mad4simmental
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭Mad4simmental


    The poor relations are the guys selling weanlings.

    That's good one year but not the next. Take the lads that we're getting huge prices for u grade bulls six months ago. If he kept those bulls to feed he wouldn't have been better off. We do need mr Italy exporter IMO to keep good prices for good stock.


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    #123
    just do it
    Registered Users Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭just do it


    I can't believe lads think the profit monitor doesn't have a roll. How can you improve if you don't have a handle on your figures? As the teagasc monitor its standardised it allows me to benchmark against
    - last year
    - the sector I'm in
    - other sectors e.g. dairy.

    I referred to €550/ dairy cow as it is something you can compare against. Now if you set yourself 2 goals (€400/ suckler cow & push stocking rate as much as possible e.g. 2cows/ha ) what's so wrong with that?


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    #124
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    just do it wrote: »
    I can't believe lads think the profit monitor doesn't have a roll. How can you improve if you don't have a handle on your figures? As the teagasc monitor its standardised it allows me to benchmark against
    - last year
    - the sector I'm in
    - other sectors e.g. dairy.

    I referred to €550/ dairy cow as it is something you can compare against. Now if you set yourself 2 goals (€400/ suckler cow & push stocking rate as much as possible e.g. 2cows/ha ) what's so wrong with that?

    Nothing wrong with a profit monitor, it's just the way lads fill them up:pac:. Eg merchant credit, lads might have the bill almost cleared at the beginning of the year, but at the end of last year might still owe a few thousand. So they've written a few cheques to the merchant during the year. They might put 2 cheques towards meal, 1 for hardware and one at the end of the year (when money came in) towards fertiliser. I'm not saying everyone does it that way but it could happen.

    Ifac can send the figures over to teagasc, could be some inaccuracies here too. If a lad bought a load of fertiliser at the end of the year but never used it until the following year.......what year does it show up in the PM? Maybe neither year. Opening and closing stocks can get a bit blurry.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #125
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    Profit monitors are a usefull tool yes. They show your costs one year to the next and give you an indication of cost against other farmers. However you also have to look deeper into them. Some lads are coming on here quoting them as gospel statint that all lads are losing money. They fail to look at the total picture.

    Now I am not saying that farmers are making serious money however lads can be losing money on paper but still be profitable. Two of my childern do a good bit of work opn the farm. I pay them and it appeears as wages on the accounts. They use this to part fund there 3rd level education now on paper it make the accounts look horrible. However they do the work and I see no reason not to pay them proper rate. It has the benifit of being tax efficient in that they have a bit of a Tax Free Allowance that they can use. It also means that I have to find less money out of other funds to fund there college education. I also have a bit of interest due to repayments on land.Then We are have a fairly modest car CA of about 2K/year. Because the farm is of a modest scale then it makes the figure look horrible but I guess I can live with that as long as i know that there is jingle in the pocket

    This is the reason Why I make the ponit that about lies, stastics and profit mopnitors. In reality we all have profitmonitors done by our accountants every year but how many read them. A few years ago I spotted an error by the accountanted, as well there software calulated different to revenue, he commented that I was one of the few farmers who ever questioned him about these issue.


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    #126
    visatorro
    Registered Users Posts: 3,113 ✭✭✭visatorro


    Just seen the second half of ear to the ground. What do the beef reckon of his system and opinions on suckler farming. I'm dairying myself but thought he seemed to have a good set up and grasp of things


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    #127
    farmer johnd
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭farmer johnd


    Having exited dairying in 2001 and taken up full time employment outside the farm I changed to suckling. I did not have a sufficient block of land close to farm buildings to allow for expansion. I had already built up a 30 cow suckling herd on rented land. IMO suckling is no more than an expensive hobby. It is a total non runner as a means of generating a living wage. Pride and tradition are the only reason that I persisted. But now I feel the day of the traditional continental suckler herd is coming to an end. It is a loss making enterprise being subsided by single farm payments and off farm income. Meat processors may wake up when it is too late. Their raw material will have disappeared.


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    #128
    onyerbikepat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,921 ✭✭✭onyerbikepat


    There's 13 Clearance sales advertised on Donedeal in the last 30 days alone. Fellas will be fighting over the weanlings come next autumn.:D


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    #129
    farmer johnd
    Registered Users Posts: 30 ✭farmer johnd


    Unfortunately clearance sales are becoming a common occurrence and I can understand why. The toughest guys will hang in there hoping that things will get better. But the disastrous summer of 2012 and last springs fodder crisis have been the straw that broke the camel's back. I don't intend giving in but I'm not sure how long this can last at current market returns.


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    #130
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    onyerbikepat wrote: »
    There's 13 Clearance sales advertised on Donedeal in the last 30 days alone. Fellas will be fighting over the weanlings come next autumn.:D

    At the end of the day any farmer/finisher can only pay so much for cattle. Fellas may be fighting over them but after a years or two losses they will exit . most traders will move to other product that offer more value.

    Over the last two year we had the highes Beef prices ever. Were sucklers profitable, if not they never will be


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    #131
    blue5000
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,628 Mod ✭✭✭✭blue5000


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    At the end of the day any farmer/finisher can only pay so much for cattle. Fellas may be fighting over them but after a years or two losses they will exit . most traders will move to other product that offer more value.

    Over the last two year we had the highes Beef prices ever. Were sucklers profitable, if not they never will be

    Pudsey there is a bit of a difference between profitable sucklers and profitable beef finishing.

    If the seat's wet, sit on yer hat, a cool head is better than a wet ar5e.



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    #132
    Brown Podzol
    Registered Users Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Brown Podzol


    blue5000 wrote: »
    Nothing wrong with a profit monitor, it's just the way lads fill them up:pac:. Eg merchant credit, lads might have the bill almost cleared at the beginning of the year, but at the end of last year might still owe a few thousand. So they've written a few cheques to the merchant during the year. They might put 2 cheques towards meal, 1 for hardware and one at the end of the year (when money came in) towards fertiliser. I'm not saying everyone does it that way but it could happen.

    Ifac can send the figures over to teagasc, could be some inaccuracies here too. If a lad bought a load of fertiliser at the end of the year but never used it until the following year.......what year does it show up in the PM? Maybe neither year. Opening and closing stocks can get a bit blurry.

    I'm in dairying, only dabble a bit in bull beef, but I always find a three year rolling average of the PM to be more pertinent. Gets over to a certain extent the prepayments and accruals,carry over stocks the delayed payment of reps and SFP etc. and different marketing strategies of stock.


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    #133
    on the river
    Registered Users Posts: 1,527 ✭✭✭on the river


    Suckler farming especially on small farms are not viable. with A.I , VET FEES ,Silage and machinery costs the small farmer is taking a big chunk from their SFP. The reality is without the EU grants and subsides the small farmer would be long gone. the question is how long can they hold out ?


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    #134
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    on the river wrote: »
    Suckler farming especially on small farms are not viable. with A.I , VET FEES ,Silage and machinery costs the small farmer is taking a big chunk from their SFP. The reality is without the EU grants and subsides the small farmer would be long gone. the question is how long can they hold out ?

    I'm sure some suckler farmers are profitable and can continue .
    Some have made a nice bit of investment in their farms and maybe quite profitable when buildings , land and slurry storage is paid for .
    Others are at it regardless of profit and will continue on wether or which .
    Costs are a major thing that we could tighten up on alot on some farms , there are suckler farmers around me with farms that dairy cows wouldnt pay for !


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    #135
    Farmer Pudsey
    Registered Users Posts: 6,326 ✭✭✭Farmer Pudsey


    moy83 wrote: »
    I'm sure some suckler farmers are profitable and can continue .
    Some have made a nice bit of investment in their farms and maybe quite profitable when buildings , land and slurry storage is paid for .
    Others are at it regardless of profit and will continue on wether or which .
    Costs are a major thing that we could tighten up on alot on some farms , there are suckler farmers around me with farms that dairy cows wouldnt pay for !

    and machinery


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    #136
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    and machinery

    I was meaning machinery , jeeps and trailers .
    A lad beside us with four mud fat suckler cows and an ass in the front lawn is after buying a brand new 2 cow box . I think it was just shy of 4k . All as I can say is that the FAS scheme is a great job :D


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    #137
    coolshannagh28
    Registered Users Posts: 1,476 ✭✭✭coolshannagh28


    Farmer Pudsey wrote: »
    and machinery

    Pudsey I think we are fellow luddites


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    #138
    on the river
    Registered Users Posts: 1,527 ✭✭✭on the river


    moy83 wrote: »
    I'm sure some suckler farmers are profitable and can continue .
    Some have made a nice bit of investment in their farms and maybe quite profitable when buildings , land and slurry storage is paid for .
    Others are at it regardless of profit and will continue on wether or which .
    Costs are a major thing that we could tighten up on alot on some farms , there are suckler farmers around me with farms that dairy cows wouldnt pay for !
    what part of galway are you living ???


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    #139
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    on the river wrote: »
    what part of galway are you living ???

    On the way to connemara . Where are you based


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    #140
    on the river
    Registered Users Posts: 1,527 ✭✭✭on the river


    moy83 wrote: »
    On the way to connemara . Where are you based

    Dunmore direction . i doubt the land is good where your living. how can you make a profit ?


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    #141
    Username John
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,237 ✭✭✭Username John


    on the river wrote: »
    Dunmore direction . i doubt the land is good where your living. how can you make a profit ?

    Jesus, don't sugar coat it for him anyways...

    :)


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    #142
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    on the river wrote: »
    Dunmore direction . i doubt the land is good where your living. how can you make a profit ?

    I have a job that just about makes a profit ! The father is at home farming but he is semi retired from it and not too worrid about profit from farming anymore . We have bits of everything here and what I find leaves a few quid is buying nice heifer weanlings and selling them calved . But I dont do much of that really , just when the opportunity arises .


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    #143
    grassroot1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,524 ✭✭✭grassroot1


    With regard to machinery and new sheds etc , there has to be enough profit in suckler farming for reasonable investment, the problem is the cost of keeping the suckler cow is too high for what she can return. I am finding along with other suckler to weanling men, how long can I keep the cow on the farm with the present returns.


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    #144
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    Username John wrote: »
    Jesus, don't sugar coat it for him anyways...

    :)

    I wouldnt want to be sensitive :D


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    #145
    Robson99
    Registered Users Posts: 4,220 ✭✭✭Robson99


    on the river wrote: »
    Dunmore direction . i doubt the land is good where your living. how can you make a profit ?

    Jasus give him a break. Its hardly the golden vale between Dunmore and Cloonfad is it


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    #146
    Conmaicne Mara
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,543 ✭✭✭Conmaicne Mara


    moy83 wrote: »
    On the way to connemara . Where are you based

    Wait until he get's as far as me :D


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    #147
    moy83
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,701 ✭✭✭moy83


    Conmaicne Mara wrote: »
    Wait until he get's as far as me :D

    We are only in the ha' penny place Con :D


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    #148
    TITANIUM.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭TITANIUM.


    on the river wrote: »
    Dunmore direction . i doubt the land is good where your living. how can you make a profit ?

    A-HOLE


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    #149
    on the river
    Registered Users Posts: 1,527 ✭✭✭on the river


    TITANIUM. wrote: »
    A-HOLE

    what do you mean ?


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    #150
    TITANIUM.
    Registered Users Posts: 2,313 ✭✭✭TITANIUM.


    on the river wrote: »
    what do you mean ?

    The A stands for ass!!!!!!!


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    #151
    on the river
    Registered Users Posts: 1,527 ✭✭✭on the river


    TITANIUM. wrote: »
    The A stands for ass!!!!!!!

    whats your reason ?


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