GRA pull out of pay talks

Pappa Charlie · 05-03-2013 2:42pm

guttenberg wrote: »

bubblypop, so to avoid current/future proposed paycuts to Gardai, you propose taking extra action to limit the amount of revenue the bosses of the Gardai(the Govt.) take into their coffers? If any employer has less revenue to work with, where do you think the shortfall will come from?

Are the gardai the only place that Government can get revenue, there's a place in the cabinet for you with such a narrow mind!!

05-03-2013 5:40pm

guttenberg wrote: »

bubblypop, so to avoid current/future proposed paycuts to Gardai, you propose taking extra action to limit the amount of revenue the bosses of the Gardai(the Govt.) take into their coffers? If any employer has less revenue to work with, where do you think the shortfall will come from?

thats exactly what i propose.
maybe instead of thinking about how much money gardai cost, maybe they could start to think of the money that gardai actually take in for the state.

goldie fish · 05-03-2013 8:03pm

coolhandluke wrote: »

My bad, someone else said that to me, should have checked my facts myself.

Maybe there we're referring to the previous years of the rainbow govt and what led up to the blue flue, the split, the federation and all that.......

The federation? That was just the DMA folk getting uppity.

Pappa Charlie · 05-03-2013 8:10pm

goldie fish wrote: »

The federation? That was just the DMA folk getting uppity.

Let's stick together, let bygones be bygones, we're all on the one side now and the government need to know it!!!

Terrontress · 06-03-2013 8:17am

guttenberg wrote: »

bubblypop, so to avoid current/future proposed paycuts to Gardai, you propose taking extra action to limit the amount of revenue the bosses of the Gardai(the Govt.) take into their coffers? If any employer has less revenue to work with, where do you think the shortfall will come from?

It's very difficult to compare industrial action in the Emergency Services to that in the private sector.

With Emergency Services industrial action, those who ultimately lose out are the public, many of whom support the aims of those taking action.

In the private sector, the aim is to hurt the pocket of their employer / management.

By refusing to carry out revenue raising activities yet providing front line protection and care undiminished, Gardai could hurt the pocket of their masters, keep on making people feel safe and maintain the support of the public.

SB2013 · 06-03-2013 11:57am

Terrontress wrote: »

It's very difficult to compare industrial action in the Emergency Services to that in the private sector.

With Emergency Services industrial action, those who ultimately lose out are the public, many of whom support the aims of those taking action.

In the private sector, the aim is to hurt the pocket of their employer / management.

By refusing to carry out revenue raising activities yet providing front line protection and care undiminished, Gardai could hurt the pocket of their masters, keep on making people feel safe and maintain the support of the public.

That's exactly it. I know I, for one, won't engage in any action I feel endangers people. I won't take part in any kind of work withdrawl if there isn't some emergency cover for people who will need it. Nor will i stop prosecuting the dangerous people out there.

Qwerty Dub · 06-03-2013 12:33pm

SB2013 wrote: »

That's exactly it. I know I, for one, won't engage in any action I feel endangers people. I won't take part in any kind of work withdrawl if there isn't some emergency cover for people who will need it. Nor will i stop prosecuting the dangerous people out there.

I have to say I side with Gardai on this issue. What would you propose they do to make the governement listen if not withdraw service? Anything else is a waste of time in my view.

There are no members of the public (including me) who are emailing TDs asking that Government leave Gardai alone. But you can be fair sure that TDs inboxes will be full if people don't have a Guard or Fireman or Ambulance to come when they need one.

I would be of the opinion that any risk to people was caused by Government and that they could put an end to any such risks by following through on the original Croke Park Agreement as promised.

pah · 06-03-2013 12:42pm

I see GRA are saying no one will volunteer for OT paddys day. media are reporting this but saying members could be directed to do this OT in writing. Does it not require 14 days notice?

pah · 06-03-2013 12:47pm

SB2013 wrote: »

Nor will i stop prosecuting the dangerous people out there.

Proceed by summons?

Qwerty Dub · 06-03-2013 1:22pm

pah wrote: »

I see GRA are saying no one will volunteer for OT paddys day. media are reporting this but saying members could be directed to do this OT in writing. Does it not require 14 days notice?

Not if the Guards are down to work already I believe. If its a rest day they require 14 days notice. Could be wrong on that. Any Gardaí confirm?

Potential-Monke · 06-03-2013 1:26pm

Qwerty Dub wrote: »

Not if the Guards are down to work already I believe. If its a rest day they require 14 days notice. Could be wrong on that. Any Gardaí confirm?

You're right. If you're already working that day, specifically if you're Traffic, Community Police, etc, you can be directed to police the parade instead. But changing someones shift (from Rest Day to Working, or from an early to a late) requires 14 days notice and has to be done by the Super.

Pappa Charlie · 06-03-2013 1:45pm

Potential-Monke wrote: »

You're right. If you're already working that day, specifically if you're Traffic, Community Police, etc, you can be directed to police the parade instead. But changing someones shift (from Rest Day to Working, or from an early to a late) requires 14 days notice and has to be done by the Super.

It will be a bit of a problem holding the parade in Dublin and the all Ireland club finals in Croke park and it all on a Sunday with split shifts and no one willing to work overtime or do non public, holy Christ I'd say there are a few chiefs and supers pulling their hair out, so much for the gathering 2013 we probally won't get a chance to shake the yanks down!!

pah · 06-03-2013 2:47pm

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

It will be a bit of a problem holding the parade in Dublin and the all Ireland club finals in Croke park and it all on a Sunday with split shifts and no one willing to work overtime or do non public, holy Christ I'd say there are a few chiefs and supers pulling their hair out, so much for the gathering 2013 we probally won't get a chance to shake the yanks down!!

yeah. The early and night shifts are on a split as far as I can see. gonna cause big problems in Cork City anyway.

greenoverred · 06-03-2013 9:09pm

If anybody has any doubts as to what it is going to take for members of AGS to protect pay and conditions and try and get a fair deal from CP2 take 5 minutes and listen to Minister Shatter in the Dail today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1K8QsL3G0

This man has obviously got an agenda. He has no problem standing up in the dail, releasing statements or doing media interviews which are full of lies. Why is this Minister so determined to pick a row with AGS.

He, above anybody should know that the GRA are not a union and did not have a seat at the CP2 talks. Despite this he keeps on coming out with the same lie about the GRA walking away from talks. Enda Kenny and Leo Varadkar are two other politicians who have told lies in Dail questions and radio interviews.

Just remember when listening to this Minister speak, his idea of fairness is Gardai and other frontline workers should take an 8% while he himself who earns €169,000 a year takes a 7% cut

Pappa Charlie · 06-03-2013 9:27pm

greenoverred wrote: »

If anybody has any doubts as to what it is going to take for members of AGS to protect pay and conditions and try and get a fair deal from CP2 take 5 minutes and listen to Minister Shatter in the Dail today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1K8QsL3G0

This man has obviously got an agenda. He has no problem standing up in the dail, releasing statements or doing media interviews which are full of lies. Why is this Minister so determined to pick a row with AGS.

He, above anybody should know that the GRA are not a union and did not have a seat at the CP2 talks. Despite this he keeps on coming out with the same lie about the GRA walking away from talks. Enda Kenny and Leo Varadkar are two other politicians who have told lies in Dail questions and radio interviews.

Just remember when listening to this Minister speak, his idea of fairness is Gardai and other frontline workers should take an 8% while he himself who earns €169,000 a year takes a 7% cut

I felt awful sorry for that fella in Florida who got swallowed up by that sink hole last week, then I got thinking dosent Alan have a few places in Florida he could go on holiday to just to take a well deserved break!

tayto lover · 06-03-2013 9:32pm

greenoverred wrote: »

If anybody has any doubts as to what it is going to take for members of AGS to protect pay and conditions and try and get a fair deal from CP2 take 5 minutes and listen to Minister Shatter in the Dail today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1K8QsL3G0

This man has obviously got an agenda. He has no problem standing up in the dail, releasing statements or doing media interviews which are full of lies. Why is this Minister so determined to pick a row with AGS.

He, above anybody should know that the GRA are not a union and did not have a seat at the CP2 talks. Despite this he keeps on coming out with the same lie about the GRA walking away from talks. Enda Kenny and Leo Varadkar are two other politicians who have told lies in Dail questions and radio interviews.

Just remember when listening to this Minister speak, his idea of fairness is Gardai and other frontline workers should take an 8% while he himself who earns €169,000 a year takes a 7% cut

You lads will get absolutely nowhere with your softly softly approach.
A Blue Flu is needed if you want to get anywhere.
Looking good with the public won't pay your bills or feed your families.
Time for you to get tough with Shatter who is only laughing up his sleeve at you.

SB2013 · 06-03-2013 9:44pm

greenoverred wrote: »

If anybody has any doubts as to what it is going to take for members of AGS to protect pay and conditions and try and get a fair deal from CP2 take 5 minutes and listen to Minister Shatter in the Dail today

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OV1K8QsL3G0

This man has obviously got an agenda. He has no problem standing up in the dail, releasing statements or doing media interviews which are full of lies. Why is this Minister so determined to pick a row with AGS.

He, above anybody should know that the GRA are not a union and did not have a seat at the CP2 talks. Despite this he keeps on coming out with the same lie about the GRA walking away from talks. Enda Kenny and Leo Varadkar are two other politicians who have told lies in Dail questions and radio interviews.

Just remember when listening to this Minister speak, his idea of fairness is Gardai and other frontline workers should take an 8% while he himself who earns €169,000 a year takes a 7% cut

You wouldn't know what his agenda was. I'll just leave these here.
http://www.herald.ie/news/shatters-inlaw-is-quizzed-in-fraud-probe-29105003.html

Shatter's in-law is quizzed in fraud probe

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatters-wife-in-drinkdriving-ban-26709770.html

Shatter's wife in drink-driving ban

It's not like he has been known to hold a grudge.

JUSTICE Minister Alan Shatter pushed to be recognised as the equivalent of a senior barrister despite not having a barrister's qualification. Letters seen by the [COLOR=#009900 !important]Irish[/COLOR] Independent reveal how Mr Shatter became embroiled in an extraordinary war of words with a former AG when his request was shot down.

Now that he is in power, Mr Shatter is changing the law so that solicitors can apply to become senior counsel.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/shatter-fought-with-former-ag-in-attempt-to-get-barrister-status-26797871.html

goldie fish · 07-03-2013 1:14am

If the Indo told me the grass was green, I'd check for myself.

Its a rag that has spent the last 10 years doing everything possible to discredit the public sector, including AGS. It's a FF mouthpiece. It suits purposes at the moment to turn on government.

Beware of it's agenda. Tomorrow it will be looking for every PS worker to take a 15% pay cut again.

tayto lover · 09-03-2013 8:11pm

I see the Garda bosses are coming out threatening disciplinary action. These lads would do anything to be promoted. They would rather grovel to their political masters than stand up for their own men. Low life climbers. Don't be cowered by these lads.

SB2013 · 09-03-2013 9:43pm

tayto lover wrote: »

I see the Garda bosses are coming out threatening disciplinary action. These lads would do anything to be promoted. They would rather grovel to their political masters than stand up for their own men. Low life climbers. Don't be cowered by these lads.

Disciplinary action for what?

tayto lover · 09-03-2013 9:46pm

SB2013 wrote: »

Disciplinary action for what?

They were told they could be guilty of an offence by encouraging your members not to work overtime. http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0309/375847-gardai-pay-protests/

uck51js9zml2yt · 10-03-2013 10:11am

can age really afford to work to rule. Saw a good letter in the paper this week.he pointed out(correctly) that not imposing fines for people breaking the law affected revenue from which the public service was paid.
Ags is there to uphold the laws of the land not ignore it.
I've a brother in the army for 37 years. He's getting out.
Ags have the same choices as he does.

pa990 · 10-03-2013 3:33pm

Alyssa Attractive Sky wrote: »

can age really afford to work to rule. Saw a good letter in the paper this week.he pointed out(correctly) that not imposing fines for people breaking the law affected revenue from which the public service was paid.
Ags is there to uphold the laws of the land not ignore it.
I've a brother in the army for 37 years. He's getting out.
Ags have the same choices as he does.

Any member of ags with 37yrs service has already taken the option to leave.

In fact most with 30yrs service are jumping ship.

and those with 28/29yrs service are queuing up at the lifeboats

Pappa Charlie · 10-03-2013 6:00pm

Alyssa Attractive Sky wrote: »

can age really afford to work to rule. Saw a good letter in the paper this week.he pointed out(correctly) that not imposing fines for people breaking the law affected revenue from which the public service was paid.
Ags is there to uphold the laws of the land not ignore it.
I've a brother in the army for 37 years. He's getting out.
Ags have the same choices as he does.

The government are well able to turn the blind eye to laws when it suits them and if they were so vigilant when in opposition they would have cried halt to the Celtic tiger but instead all that could be heard was that not enought spending was taking place. It's clear that some ministers will not be standing for re election and are going to run An Garda Siochana into the ground through arrogance and incompetence. Gra and Agsi are right to defend their members , it's time senior management grew balls and backed its members!

uck51js9zml2yt · 10-03-2013 8:13pm

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

The government are well able to turn the blind eye to laws when it suits them and if they were so vigilant when in opposition they would have cried halt to the Celtic tiger but instead all that could be heard was that not enought spending was taking place. It's clear that some ministers will not be standing for re election and are going to run An Garda Siochana into the ground through arrogance and incompetence. Gra and Agsi are right to defend their members , it's time senior management grew balls and backed its members!

its time the public service grew up and realised the private sector not only took severe pay cuts but also lost their jobs. Something that won't happen them. I lost my job and after 3 years got back to work with a 10k cut.

Pappa Charlie · 11-03-2013 8:48am

Alyssa Attractive Sky wrote: »

its time the public service grew up and realised the private sector not only took severe pay cuts but also lost their jobs. Something that won't happen them. I lost my job and after 3 years got back to work with a 10k cut.

So everyone in the private sector lost their job and got re employed at less money?? I know plenty who got no cuts at all other than USC and continue to get bonuses, but they can hide behind the private sector bloodbath arguement, maybe your job was unsustainable in the first place and generated from Celtic tiger extreme money being handed out by dodgy bankers. You didn't give a **** about the public servant or care to do their job when you were raking it in but you begrudge them their job now! Get a life!

guttenberg · 11-03-2013 10:22am

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

So everyone in the private sector lost their job and got re employed at less money?? I know plenty who got no cuts at all other than USC and continue to get bonuses, but they can hide behind the private sector bloodbath arguement, maybe your job was unsustainable in the first place and generated from Celtic tiger extreme money being handed out by dodgy bankers. You didn't give a **** about the public servant or care to do their job when you were raking it in but you begrudge them their job now! Get a life!

That's extremely harsh Charlie! Not everyone in the private sector lost their job, but plenty did and plenty had cuts to pay/hours etc. The Govt's got no money, either they raise more taxes or cut more from its outgoings to try balance the books. Maybe they're proposing cuts to the wrong wages/allowances, but despite the good job the emergency services do, they are not immune from the state of the irish economy.

Pappa Charlie · 11-03-2013 10:31am

guttenberg wrote: »

That's extremely harsh Charlie! Not everyone in the private sector lost their job, but plenty did and plenty had cuts to pay/hours etc. The Govt's got no money, either they raise more taxes or cut more from its outgoings to try balance the books. Maybe they're proposing cuts to the wrong wages/allowances, but despite the good job the emergency services do, they are not immune from the state of the irish economy.

Indeed, but does that mean that we should eventually work for nothing and with nothing if this government continue to make bad decisions which they seem to be adept at!!

Potential-Monke · 11-03-2013 6:55pm

People in the private sector are always going to begrudge the public sector when things aren't going their way. If our wages and allowances are so bad, why weren't people crying out during the boom?

I completely agree that cuts need to be made, but we've already sacrificed 14% of our wages and allowances, and now they want more. Well we don't have it to give, we being the lower ranking members. Cut the higher ranking members. Their wages and allowances are what is skewing the view that every member in the public service are on high earnings. Some of the wages of the higher ranks are completely disproportionate to what they actually do.

I honestly think that they should take the wages of Gardai and Sergeants, and get an average wage from that (one for Gardai, one for Sergeants). Then people might realise that we don't earn loads.

But most importantly, we need the GRA to start being more vocal. We have no voice. We have no say in negotiations. We are the people expected to to take it and shut up. We have a Minister who is blatently obvious in his hatred of AGS, and unpublished stories of how he treats members would make anyone sick. And there is nothing short of industrial action (which is illegal for us) that will make a blind bit of difference.

The only way anything can be done at this moment is to remove Shatter from his position, and get someone with a background in criminal law, and one who is up to date on the current situations. But that will never happen. The next Minister for Justice will probably have just a little a clue as to what is happening.

uck51js9zml2yt · 13-03-2013 7:45am

Pappa Charlie wrote: »

So everyone in the private sector lost their job and got re employed at less money?? I know plenty who got no cuts at all other than USC and continue to get bonuses, but they can hide behind the private sector bloodbath arguement, maybe your job was unsustainable in the first place and generated from Celtic tiger extreme money being handed out by dodgy bankers. You didn't give a **** about the public servant or care to do their job when you were raking it in but you begrudge them their job now! Get a life!

if that rant is the deductive powers of ags then pay cuts are justified.
I was never a banker and never raking it in.i was a transport manager whose firm liquidated and had to retrain to try rebuild a career after 20 years in logistics and provide for my family. So yo quote... You need to get a life and stop thinking your being hard done by.

GRA pull out of pay talks

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