GRA pull out of pay talks

Bosh

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Good point, something that certainly the representative unions should put forward if the government start talking out loud about the need to expand the reserves instead of launching a new intake of full time members.

Accelerated intake of reserves...

Sworn in, kitted out & out to a station for a year.

Then back to the factory, 3 months training, 5 year rolling contract, buy your own pension, half the pay of current members & voila!!!.....

The Yellow Pack brand is reborn

(no offence intended to current Reservists before anyone gets the wrong end of the stick )

Conspiracy theory anyone?

pah

In relation to the thread title the GRA have not engaged with Croke Park v2 or anything so they can't really "pull out" of something they are not in.

van_beano

pah wrote: »

In relation to the thread title the GRA have not engaged with Croke Park v2 or anything so they can't really "pull out" of something they are not in.

Ahh 6 of one, half a dozen of another.

It's a symbolic statement that they pull out, they aren't even a Trade Union, Gardai aren't allowed to be in a Trade Union. The GRA weren't even at the negotiating table for Croke Park v1 let alone Croke Park v2, the GRA accepted the outcome of CP v1 which was negotiated by the other Trade Unions.

tayto lover

van_beano wrote: »

Ahh 6 of one, half a dozen of another.

It's a symbolic statement that they pull out, they aren't even a Trade Union, Gardai aren't allowed to be in a Trade Union. The GRA weren't even at the negotiating table for Croke Park v1 let alone Croke Park v2, the GRA accepted the outcome of CP v1 which was negotiated by the other Trade Unions.

The entire Frontline PS should walk out and strike.
No cuts at the top it seems.

WilcoOut

Bosh wrote: »

buy your own pension,

whats that mean? contribute your own earnings to a private pension?

goldie fish

van_beano wrote: »

Counter argument is cost of providing uniforms, boots, stab vests, ASP's, pepper spray and handcuffs to each member plus keeping licenses open on a good few "pool" TETRA's at €600-€800 a year each and all for 248 hours work a year.

Personal issue TETRA's for full members should be got rid of aswell, cost on line rental is astronomical

Imagine the savings if they got rid of the uniform altogether? Seeing as we are going down that road.

tayto lover

goldie fish wrote: »

Imagine the savings if they got rid of the uniform altogether? Seeing as we are going down that road.

Have the State started to buy the cheap border diesel yet?

pah

Tonight we have sent a message to Mr Sh1tter. We have nothing left. Don't try and take what we can't give. If you do, we will f**k you up. Enough is enough, the line must be drawn, here.

Geansai

van_beano wrote: »

Nope Kub, the pay can be generally crap after the USC, Taxes, PRSI and PAYE have been taken out and that's excluding GRA Sub, Medical Aid, Life Assurance, Critical Illness, Luke Scott (possibly) Benevolent Fund etc. Garda pay dosn't get good until you're Supt rank upwards, even a Cigs wage these days is bad. I'm not joking when I say 60% of gross can be gone straight away!

Oh and pension levy!

Whilst I understnad that all these are on the payslip, not all of these exponeses are necessary.
Some are optional.

USC, Every PAYE Worker Pays
Taxes, Every PAYE Worker Pays
PRSI and PAYE Every PAYE Worker Pays

GRA Sub, Optional Expnese Union
Medical Aid, Optional Expnese Health Insurance
Life Assurance, Optional Expnese Insurance
Critical Illness, Optional Expnese Insurance
Luke Scott (possibly) Optional Expnese Insurance
Benevolent Fund Optional Expnese Charity

I'm not saying that a Garda should not take these out. They are all very importnat in your day to day life.
However, including these is simialr to includng expneses like "Petrol", "ESB" or "House Insurance".
It can be misleading.

BaronVon

van_beano wrote: »

Personal issue TETRA's for full members should be got rid of aswell, cost on line rental is astronomical

The Tetra contract is €40m a year. Whoever signed that contract should be made an example of.

Halving that would get the first years savings they want, and buy a few patrol cars to boot.

pa990

Geansai wrote: »

Whilst I understnad that all these are on the payslip, not all of these exponeses are necessary.
Some are optional.

USC, Every PAYE Worker Pays
Taxes, Every PAYE Worker Pays
PRSI and PAYE Every PAYE Worker Pays

GRA Sub, Optional Expnese Union
Medical Aid, Optional Expnese Health Insurance
Life Assurance, Optional Expnese Insurance
Critical Illness, Optional Expnese Insurance
Luke Scott (possibly) Optional Expnese Insurance
Benevolent Fund Optional Expnese Charity

I'm not saying that a Garda should not take these out. They are all very importnat in your day to day life.
However, including these is simialr to includng expneses like "Petrol", "ESB" or "House Insurance".
It can be misleading.

optional yes... but still necessary
we don't qualify for medical cards (yet)

Bosh

WilcoOut wrote: »

whats that mean? contribute your own earnings to a private pension?

At the moment Gardaí contribute toward a state pension scheme.

I would envision that no such scheme would be put in place for new entrants, that they would have to setup their own individually.

van_beano

Allegedly they're looking to cut Garda wages by €170 a week within the next year and a half (according to the comments section of this link http://www.thejournal.ie/cork-city-gardai-vote-industrial-action-784253-Feb2013/ )

There's no way they can cut this much off a weekly wage, I'll just be paying mortgage at that rate and nothing else, Aldi and Lidl won't be able to save me!

van_beano

Geansai wrote: »

However, including these is simialr to includng expneses like "Petrol", "ESB" or "House Insurance".
It can be misleading.

Oops sorry, I forgot to mention that Gardai also pay for petrol, ESB and House Insurance.

I also forgot to mention Gardai pay a very high Pension Levy.

goldie fish

Geansai wrote: »

Whilst I understnad that all these are on the payslip, not all of these exponeses are necessary.
Some are optional.

USC, Every PAYE Worker Pays
Taxes, Every PAYE Worker Pays
PRSI and PAYE Every PAYE Worker Pays

GRA Sub, Optional Expnese Union
Medical Aid, Optional Expnese Health Insurance
Life Assurance, Optional Expnese Insurance
Critical Illness, Optional Expnese Insurance
Luke Scott (possibly) Optional Expnese Insurance
Benevolent Fund Optional Expnese Charity

I'm not saying that a Garda should not take these out. They are all very importnat in your day to day life.
However, including these is simialr to includng expneses like "Petrol", "ESB" or "House Insurance".
It can be misleading.

I'd disagree with Medical Aid. Its far more than health insurance, and given the occupation, is far more utilised and comprehensive than any normal health insurance.

MagicSean

Geansai wrote: »

Whilst I understnad that all these are on the payslip, not all of these exponeses are necessary.
Some are optional.

USC, Every PAYE Worker Pays
Taxes, Every PAYE Worker Pays
PRSI and PAYE Every PAYE Worker Pays

GRA Sub, Optional Expnese Union
Medical Aid, Optional Expnese Health Insurance
Life Assurance, Optional Expnese Insurance
Critical Illness, Optional Expnese Insurance
Luke Scott (possibly) Optional Expnese Insurance
Benevolent Fund Optional Expnese Charity

I'm not saying that a Garda should not take these out. They are all very importnat in your day to day life.
However, including these is simialr to includng expneses like "Petrol", "ESB" or "House Insurance".
It can be misleading.

33% of standard weekly wage is subtracted for mandatory deductions, levies, taxes. That figure rises for the monthly payment of allowances depending on how much is earned in allowances. Hope that helps.

Potential-Monke

I'll give ye a breakdown of my wages:

Earned: €820.74

Tax*: €275.21

Deductions:

Medical Aid: €27
Income Protection: €6 (i think)
GRA Sub: €4.70
Social Club: €4

Loan: €150
Mortgage: €170
ESB/Gas: €25
Internet: €11.25
Sky: €6
Food: €40
Road Tax: €11.50
Insurance: €25
Petrol: €30
TV Licence: €13.33

Disposable income: €21.75

Just a few explanations:

- Medical Aid and Income Protection are 100% necessary in this line of work.
- Social Club is nearly the only time i can get to go out these days as it's a few free pints, but only when someone retires/transfers and there's a proper function.
- Tax includes PAYE, PRSI, USC, 3 x Pension related (all mandatory)
- Road Tax and Insurance broken down for weekly purposes
- Food is estimate, some weeks it's higher, others lower
- Internet is the only thing i have for sanity these days

Now, i can get rid of Sky, and be up a whopping €6 (whoop-de-do). And, the "big" cheque, which i get every 4th week might add another €100-€150, depending on sick leave or annual leave (the more of each, the less the "big cheque"). Also, the loan is the lowest i can go, and am precluded from getting another loan.

I'm 30 in May, living by myself (was not how it was intended, but who sees a 7 year relationship ending when plans are made?), can't find a lodger, replaced all bulbs with energy saving ones, can't afford to make the house warmer, can't afford anything big that comes along (the last loan was to fix a leaking shower).

Would you do this job for €27.75 a week?

pah

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'll give ye a breakdown of my wages:

Earned: €820.74

Tax*: €275.21

Deductions:

Medical Aid: €27
Income Protection: €6 (i think)
GRA Sub: €4.70
Social Club: €4

Loan: €150
Mortgage: €170
ESB/Gas: €25
Internet: €11.25
Sky: €6
Food: €40
Road Tax: €11.50
Insurance: €25
Petrol: €30
TV Licence: €13.33

Disposable income: €21.75

Just a few explanations:

- Medical Aid and Income Protection are 100% necessary in this line of work.
- Social Club is nearly the only time i can get to go out these days as it's a few free pints, but only when someone retires/transfers and there's a proper function.
- Tax includes PAYE, PRSI, USC, 3 x Pension related (all mandatory)
- Road Tax and Insurance broken down for weekly purposes
- Food is estimate, some weeks it's higher, others lower
- Internet is the only thing i have for sanity these days

Now, i can get rid of Sky, and be up a whopping €6 (whoop-de-do). And, the "big" cheque, which i get every 4th week might add another €100-€150, depending on sick leave or annual leave (the more of each, the less the "big cheque"). Also, the loan is the lowest i can go, and am precluded from getting another loan.

I'm 30 in May, living by myself (was not how it was intended, but who sees a 7 year relationship ending when plans are made?), can't find a lodger, replaced all bulbs with energy saving ones, can't afford to make the house warmer, can't afford anything big that comes along (the last loan was to fix a leaking shower).

Would you do this job for €27.75 a week?

I am in much the same boat as you but I can't agree with how you rationalise your figures.

You have to quote your gross and your net figures and saying med aid is necessary I also agree.

However you are not doing this job for €27.75 a week. You are doing it for close to 500 a week. everybody has loans and bills to pay.

The only reason I have the ability to get the large loan I have is because of the job and the CU. I pay 200pw into what was borrowed for home loan and car loan, mostly b4 things went tits up.

my disposable income is shag all and if I knew then what I know now I don't I'd be doing this job at all. Not having a go at you just don't agree with your rationalising. nobody does a job for x amount of disposable income.

tayto lover

Whatever way each of you do it you have a poor lifestyle just like most workers.
Working to exist is not very funny at all. I did it in London in the 1970's. Lived on steak & kidney pies for months because I couldn't afford anything else. Never eat the bloody things since.

Chin up lads as it WILL turn.

Potential-Monke

Thing is though, it is for disposable income that you work for. Granted, without the loans you have a lot more disposable, but there's no one I know who doesn't have a loan of some sort.

When I got the loans, I had a lot more disposable income, and I never did a lot of overtime, if any at all, so it's the above figures which I've always worked off. I never imagined or expected that I would ever be in the situation where I don't have enough to pay for unexpected bills.

pah

My dad is retired 5 yrs, he used to say I never met a rich Guard, but I never met a poor one either How things have changed

salonfire

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I'll give ye a breakdown of my wages:

Earned: €820.74

Tax*: €275.21

Deductions:

Medical Aid: €27
Income Protection: €6 (i think)
GRA Sub: €4.70
Social Club: €4

Loan: €150
Mortgage: €170
ESB/Gas: €25
Internet: €11.25
Sky: €6
Food: €40
Road Tax: €11.50
Insurance: €25
Petrol: €30
TV Licence: €13.33

Disposable income: €21.75

Just a few explanations:

- Medical Aid and Income Protection are 100% necessary in this line of work.
- Social Club is nearly the only time i can get to go out these days as it's a few free pints, but only when someone retires/transfers and there's a proper function.
- Tax includes PAYE, PRSI, USC, 3 x Pension related (all mandatory)
- Road Tax and Insurance broken down for weekly purposes
- Food is estimate, some weeks it's higher, others lower
- Internet is the only thing i have for sanity these days

Now, i can get rid of Sky, and be up a whopping €6 (whoop-de-do). And, the "big" cheque, which i get every 4th week might add another €100-€150, depending on sick leave or annual leave (the more of each, the less the "big cheque"). Also, the loan is the lowest i can go, and am precluded from getting another loan.

I'm 30 in May, living by myself (was not how it was intended, but who sees a 7 year relationship ending when plans are made?), can't find a lodger, replaced all bulbs with energy saving ones, can't afford to make the house warmer, can't afford anything big that comes along (the last loan was to fix a leaking shower).

Would you do this job for €27.75 a week?

Please get some perspective here.

You are taking home a little over 500 euro each week (after the Garda related deductions), with even more every 4th week.

That is over 2k a month with a permanent job and is just slightly under the average industrial salary take home of €535 weekly based on €35,000 salary for a private sector, single worker.

Its a salary that does not set the world on fire, but it isn't exactly the lowest. Many many people public and private have to survive on much less.

Say, in another world you had a choice again of another job, what would you do? Bear in mind, there are no easy jobs paying bucket loads anywhere in Ireland (apart from the mad years of labourers taking home a grand a week).


Could you become a genius computer programmer that is in constant demand constantly perfecting his craft?
Would you be able to raise to CEO of a SME, taking risks and making astute business and financial decisions every day to command a mega salary?

Or would you be one of the many people doing ordinary jobs for ordinary salaries? Factory workers, shop workers, healthcare worker, chef, etc

bravestar

salonfire wrote: »

Please get some perspective here.

You are taking home a little over 500 euro each week (after the Garda related deductions), with even more every 4th week.

That is over 2k a month with a permanent job and is just slightly under the average industrial salary take home of €535 weekly based on €35,000 salary for a private sector, single worker.

Its a salary that does not set the world on fire, but it isn't exactly the lowest. Many many people public and private have to survive on much less.

Say, in another world you had a choice again of another job, what would you do? Bear in mind, there are no easy jobs paying bucket loads anywhere in Ireland (apart from the mad years of labourers taking home a grand a week).


Could you become a genius computer programmer that is in constant demand constantly perfecting his craft?
Would you be able to raise to CEO of a SME, taking risks and making astute business and financial decisions every day to command a mega salary?

Or would you be one of the many people doing ordinary jobs for ordinary salaries? Factory workers, shop workers, healthcare worker, chef, etc

You generally don't wrestle/ get stabbed/ spit at/ shot at/ punched/ kicked/ bottled/ stuck with needles/ rammed with stolen cars... As an average salary man, sorry slightly under average...

salonfire

bravestar wrote: »

You generally don't wrestle/ get stabbed/ spit at/ shot at/ punched/ kicked/ bottled/ stuck with needles/ rammed with stolen cars... As an average salary man, sorry slightly under average...

I completely accept it is not a great salary at all for the risks involved, but my main point is that the poor mouthing that goes on here is without foundation.

Would giving Gardai a grand a week take home reduce the risks? Or would the same dangers be there?

This is a poor analogy but I am going to mention it anyway...what about the bouncers inside crowded nightclubs? Do they not also face the same dangers of being spat at? Should we as a country ensure they take home a grand a week (pro-rated to the hours worked) because of the risk they face also?


BTW, farming is the most dangerous occupation anyone can do.

WilcoOut

salonfire wrote: »

what about the bouncers inside crowded nightclubs? Do they not also face the same dangers of being spat at? .

you cant compare a bouncer to a police officer

private supervision of drinkers in a singular premises versus 24/7 country wide state security ?

no comparison

salonfire

WilcoOut wrote: »

you cant compare a bouncer to a police officer

private supervision of drinkers in a singular premises versus 24/7 country wide state security ?

no comparison

ok, fair enough.

I will add just one last point on this topic.

I do not believe that the general public will support an industrial action by anyone with a permanent job taking home € 500+ a week in the current state of the country.

bravestar

salonfire wrote: »

This is a poor analogy but I am going to mention it anyway....

You are right, it was a poor analogy.

A grand a week has nothing to do with it... all it is has to do with is being paid a fair wage for the work that is put in. Cutting it again is basically spitting in our faces and showing complete disregard to the home circumstances of every mule out there who at one stage or another believed in the job they did and wanted to make a difference.

Everyone signed up doing the job and getting "X" in return for it. That "X" has been cut... over and over... and now it appears to be happening again.

Potential-Monke

There was no deliberate intent at poor mouthing, i was just showing what a member of 6 years service takes home. Granted, if i had foresight, my loan repayments may not have been as high: i had a college loan going in, and there were a few necessary loans in there too, along with the deposit for my mortgage.

I'd say i got a loan of about €7k total for frivilous entertainment, most of which could have been avoided, but when you go from having little all your life to being of the mind that the loans won't effect you due to having a decent wage, you're going to splash a bit (the last of that €7k being a €3k loan in Sept 09 for a nice holiday for myself and the then missus to Orlando, as i knew i wouldn't be going even to Ballybunion for a long time!).

I'm just pointing out that my disposable income is down to under €30 a week, with maybe €150 every 4th week (which is usually to repay people/the bank for mini loans built up in the other 3 weeks). When i joined, and got every loan, i had budgeted properly, i knew what i had and what i had to repay. I never expected to be taxed to the hilt and be in the position i currently am.

But now it's up to the Government to decide what happens with my mortgage/loans. Anymore cuts, and i can't afford one or the other, and any severe cuts and this country will be left with my debt, as i'll be out of here for my mental stability.

Also, unless you are a Garda or a close relative/friend, you will never know how hard and mentally draining this job is. Most Gardai don't talk about what happens at work, but some of the stuff we deal with has massive psychological effects, and the days of sorting it over a few pints with colleagues in the pub is gone. Anyone that has ever gone through a psychological breakdown will tell you it's not easy to admit, and harder to overcome. We deal with all this silently, and motor on, partially due to the expectation from the public, partially due to the pressure from management.

Finally, to answer your question, if i had pushed myself, i could have been a "genius computer programmer that is in constant demand constantly perfecting his craft", but i decided to give my services to the community instead. Didn't expect to be hated, and really expected to get recognition for my effort, not reprimanded for stupid little things or hindsight action.

feargalmcc1

Does anybody know when ye are hiring again ?

WilcoOut

feargalmcc1 wrote: »

Does anybody know when ye are hiring again ?

youve been told no