HEC: Munster vs Racing Métro 92, Sun 20 Jan 12:45pm [MOD WARNING POST 645]

thomond2006

Munster:
15 Felix Jones, 14 Doug Howlett, 13 Keith Earls, 12 James Downey, 11 Simon Zebo, 10 Ian Keatley, 9 Conor Murray,
8 James Coughlan, 7 Tommy O'Donnell, 6 Peter O'Mahony, 5 Donnacha Ryan, 4 Donncha O'Callaghan, 3 BJ Botha, 2 Mike Sherry , 1 Dave Kilcoyne.

Replacements: 16 Damien Varley, 17 Wian du Preez, 18 John Ryan, 19 Billy Holland, 20 Paddy Butler, 21 Duncan Williams, 22 JJ Hanrahan, 23 Casey Laulala,

Racing Metro:
15 Gaetan Germain, 14 Julien Jane, 13 Guillaume Bousses, 12 Alexandre Dumoulin, 11 Sereli Bobo, 10 Olly Barkley, 9 Mathieu Belie,
8 Jacques Cronje, 7 Bernard Le Roux, 6 Antoine Batut, 5 Fabrice Metz, 4 Karim Ghezal, 3 Benjamin Sa, 2 Benjamin Noirot, 1 Julien Brugnaut.

Replacements: 16 Thomas Bianchin, 17 Andrea Lo Cicero, 18 Juan Pablo Orlandi, 19 Jone Qovu Nailiko, 20 Benjamin Fall, 21 Santiago Dellape, 22 Sebastien Descons, 23 Masi Matadigo,

Only five Racing players in this starting lineup started the reserve fixture in Paris: Ghezal, Battut, Cronje, Barkley and Jane. It looks very much like a second team. Former Munster prop Julien Brugnaut starts at loosehead.

No change for Munster except for Keatley in for O'Gara, with Hanrahan providing cover on the bench. This represents an opportunity for Keatley to earn his spot in the first team.

A lot will depend on Racing's motivation here, a lot of these players have got a chance to stake a claim for more appearances into the season. However they may lose interest should Munster build an early lead.

Prediction: Munster BP win.

Otacon

We cannot afford to be anything but direct in this game. From the start, we need to be gunning for the bonus point. None of the 'taking the kicking' option like we did against Edinburgh.

If we do get one or two early tries, Racing may check out, making the task easier.

SomeFool

Munster win without BP

Is this definately a red button game on sky

Quint2010

Racing Métro win

SomeFool wrote: »

Is this definately a red button game on sky

Oh gosh never thought of that-Saracens Edinburgh on at the same time?..:eek:

[Jackass]

Racing Métro win

Racing have no interest in this game what so ever.

tolosenc

Racing Métro win

Quint2010 wrote: »

Oh gosh never thought of that-Saracens Edinburgh on at the same time?..:eek:

You know how Sky like to wet themselves over Sarries...

Don't see Munster getting 4 tries. A relatively full strength side just about failed to do so against the worst team in the tournament, and Munster haven't looked like coming close since. 3 try agony.

.ak

Olly and Bobo are the only players I really recognise on that backline.... Munster should walk this, if they iron out the mistakes from last week.

Tim Robbins

[Jackass] wrote: »

Racing have no interest in this game what so ever.

Makes a mockery of he competition.

I think qualification for the HC should depend on your performance the previous year.

GerM

If the ERC see fit, they can take action. They fined Montpellier a few years back for fielding a reserve side in the Amlin Cup. However, it's their team and they can do as they wish, in my opinion.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Racing Métro win

GerM wrote: »

If the ERC see fit, they can take action. They fined Montpellier a few years back for fielding a reserve side in the Amlin Cup. However, it's their team and they can do as they wish, in my opinion.

I don't think it was for fielding a reserve side but rather leaving their big names out of the squad.

Not sure though.

.ak

Yeah, they should just award Munster the win... 4 points!




.... :P

irishbucsfan

What would happen if Racing refused to field a team or had to forfeit for some reason?

In terms of match points and tries scored etc.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Racing Métro win

irishbucsfan wrote: »

What would happen if Racing refused to field a team or had to forfeit for some reason?

In terms of match points and tries scored etc.

Probably Munster would get 4 points but that is a guess.

budhabob

Munster win without BP

SomeFool wrote: »

Is this definately a red button game on sky

Ah feck, upc don't allow red button do they?

Otacon

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Probably Munster would get 4 points but that is a guess.

I can picture [Jackass] hastily purchasing a sniper rifle as we speak.

awec

Munster win without BP

budhabob wrote: »

Ah feck, upc don't allow red button do they?

Nope, red button is for Sky customers only.

justsomebloke

Otacon wrote: »

I can picture [Jackass] hastily purchasing a sniper rifle as we speak.

Are we sure those Horse burgers were safe to eat?

Iang87

Munster win without BP

budhabob wrote: »

Ah feck, upc don't allow red button do they?

nope and its definitely on sky red button too

budhabob

Munster win without BP

Iang87 wrote: »

nope and its definitely on sky red button too

Well that's a kick in the teeth....

SomeFool

Munster win without BP

budhabob wrote: »

Well that's a kick in the teeth....

Yep
Fecking upc
Sky website says it's the live game but after the wasps game last night it said red button

liammur

Munster win without BP

So Munster -19 with the bookies, in or around the figure I had in mind.

thomond2006

Munster win without BP

The Munster site says Jones and Sherry's involvement is subject to getting through a training session today.

Tim Robbins

liammur wrote: »

So Munster -19 with the bookies, in or around the figure I had in mind.

Munster are 1/50 on.

liammur

Munster win without BP

GerM wrote: »

If the ERC see fit, they can take action. They fined Montpellier a few years back for fielding a reserve side in the Amlin Cup. However, it's their team and they can do as they wish, in my opinion.

It makes no difference. They could send over their best players and tell them 'not to pick up injuries'.

Tox56

Racing :mad: Looks like it's all in the Montpellier game for Leinster.

Quint2010

Racing Métro win

Munster need to be very careful how they approach this game. No room for complacency. The pressure is off Racing and they may actually come out to play some rugby and put some points on the board. Alot of their approach of course depends on other results but complacency could be their biggest enemy.

Fishooks13

Munster win without BP

ffs, not on telly?

.ak

Fishooks13 wrote: »

ffs, not on telly?

It is, you just have to have Sky to watch it. It'll be a trip to the local for me, only have UPC.

awec

Munster win without BP

Sure it gives you an excuse to go to the pub...

Tim Robbins

Quint2010 wrote: »

Munster need to be very careful how they approach this game. No room for complacency. The pressure is off Racing and they may actually come out to play some rugby and put some points on the board. Alot of their approach of course depends on other results but complacency could be their biggest enemy.

If Munster loose this game it will go down as one of the worst games in history. Racing are throwing it. I can't remember the last time I saw a team 1/ 50 on. My prediction is Munster to have two tries in the first 55 mins and then floodgates will open. Must to get 6 / 7 tries.

P_1

Tim Robbins wrote: »

If Munster loose this game it will go down as one of the worst games in history. Racing are throwing it. I can't remember the last time I saw a team 1/ 50 on. My prediction is Munster to have two tries in the first 55 mins and then floodgates will open. Must to get 6 / 7 tries.

Happens weekly in the Top14.

Just ask Clareman about the time Scarlets were 1/200 to beat Zebre a few weeks back

liammur

Munster win without BP

P_1 wrote: »

Happens weekly in the Top14.

Just ask Clareman about the time Scarlets were 1/200 to beat Zebre a few weeks back

That's true. You often see that in rugby, never in soccer because of the draw.

Quint2010

Racing Métro win

Nonsense to say Racing are "throwing" the game. You mean they are deliberately going out to lose? Why would they do that?

Fireball07

Racing Métro win

thomond2006 wrote: »

The Munster site says Jones and Sherry's involvement is subject to getting through a training session today.

I think Sherry is a big loss, personally. Varley is so inconsistent at line-out time.

4PP

Racing aren't "throwing" anything. No more than Irish provinces do when confronted with the constraints of a league, a euro competition, imposed rest periods for internationals and the like.
Yes the team has 13 changes since last outing but RCM have no future in this comp. They do however have a match in Bordeaux which is very important in their quest for a Top6 spot in the T14.
It may adversely affect teams they are not even playing against but that is not their problem.

Realpolitik my friends, you see it every season in the Rabo.

who_me

4PP wrote: »

Racing aren't "throwing" anything. No more than Irish provinces do when confronted with the constraints of a league, a euro competition, imposed rest periods for internationals and the like.
Yes the team has 13 changes since last outing but RCM have no future in this comp. They do however have a match in Bordeaux which is very important in their quest for a Top6 spot in the T14.
It may adversely affect teams they are not even playing against but that is not their problem.

Realpolitik my friends, you see it every season in the Rabo.

Exactly. If "not fielding your first choice 15" equated to throwing a game, the Irish provinces would be throwing half their seasons!

Foxtrol

Munster win without BP

who_me wrote: »

Exactly. If "not fielding your first choice 15" equated to throwing a game, the Irish provinces would be throwing half their seasons!

Big difference between a mid-season league game and a cup match where your results directly affect others. I'd be disgusted if an Irish province put out such a weakened side in the last game of the season in the Rabo if their opposition was in the running for a play-off place. It goes against the principals of competition.

4PP

Foxtrol wrote: »

Big difference between a mid-season league game and a cup match where your results directly affect others.

The "others" are responsible for their own results.
If you continually rely on outside elements & not yourself to achieve what you want you'll be continually disappointed.

"Made your bed.........etc"

jamiedav2011

Munster win without BP

4PP wrote: »

The "others" are responsible for their own results.
If you continually rely on outside elements & not yourself to achieve what you want you'll be continually disappointed.

"Made your bed.........etc"

In no way is it 'continually relying on outside elements', it's presuming a club with a huge squad will at least try to put up a fight in a vital game in the last round of European competition.

That's fairly far removed from an Irish side putting out a weakened team due to player management protocols in a Rabo game.

It seems to be a French trait.

P_1

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

In no way is it 'continually relying on outside elements', it's presuming a club with a huge squad will at least try to put up a fight in a vital game in the last round of European competition.

That's fairly far removed from an Irish side putting out a weakened team due to player management protocols in a Rabo game.

It seems to be a French trait.

But it's not exactly vital to Racing Metro is it?

CIARAN_BOYLE

Racing Métro win

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

In no way is it 'continually relying on outside elements', it's presuming a club with a huge squad will at least try to put up a fight in a vital game in the last round of European competition.

That's fairly far removed from an Irish side putting out a weakened team due to player management protocols in a Rabo game.

It seems to be a French trait.

Thing is that it isn't a vital game to Racing. They are already out and a win won't get them anywhere.

liammur

Munster win without BP

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Thing is that it isn't a vital game to Racing. They are already out and a win won't get them anywhere.

And that 1 sentence kills the argument

who_me

Foxtrol wrote: »

Big difference between a mid-season league game and a cup match where your results directly affect others. I'd be disgusted if an Irish province put out such a weakened side in the last game of the season in the Rabo if their opposition was in the running for a play-off place. It goes against the principals of competition.

Munster v Ulster, a local derby, 1st vs 3rd in the league, in front of a big Christmas crowd? That SHOULD be one of the biggest games of the season. The only reason it isn't is because we're accustomed to the Pro12 (/ML/CL) squads being faffed about.

Irish clubs have no legs to stand on if they're complaining about players being rested, while we focus on the HEC to the exclusion of all else.

Racing are (virtually certainly) out of the competition and have nothing to gain. Even if they played a 1st string side, they likely wouldn't be as motivated given they have nothing to play for. IF they don't put up a fight on Sunday (IF!) then it's unfair on teams in other pools, sure. Since when has this tournament been fair?

4PP

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

In no way is it 'continually relying on outside elements', it's presuming a club with a huge squad will at least try to put up a fight in a vital game in the last round of European competition.

That's fairly far removed from an Irish side putting out a weakened team due to player management protocols in a Rabo game.

It seems to be a French trait.

Then don't presume.

Q: Would it'd be okay if they didn't have "a huge squad"?

Q: Vital game for whom? Not for Racing by any means

Q: Player protocols are now an IRFU exclusive? News to me

Q; French trait? thats pretty "intolerant" considering its standard practice in every league NH or SH!


That you wish it weren't so is admirable but applying double standards where Irish provinces regularly "throw" as you put it games & then getting upset because French clubs without any hope of advancement prioritize one of the oldest leagues in the world is at best hypocrisy.


I'll say no more on the matter, we obviously don't agree, but sure there's no harm done.

thomond2006

Munster win without BP

Racing are teetering on the brink in terms of the Top14 playoffs, had they not won at Toulon they would be in big trouble.

If you're a Racing supporter, would you want Racing to send a full team in a dead rubber game (from their perspective) as opposed to putting resources into the Top14 where it's all to play for?

Luckily for the Irish provinces, they have the depth to rotate squads in the Rabo and still win most of the time.

Leinster / Leinster supporters cannot moan about this, Leinster are in the position they are in because they lost games. It's not Racing's problem.

jamiedav2011

Munster win without BP

4PP wrote: »

Then don't presume.

Q: Would it'd be okay if they didn't have "a huge squad"?

Q: Vital game for whom? Not for Racing by any means

Q: Player protocols are now an IRFU exclusive? News to me

Q; French trait? thats pretty "intolerant" considering its standard practice in every league NH or SH!


That you wish it weren't so is admirable but applying double standards where Irish provinces regularly "throw" as you put it games & then getting upset because French clubs without any hope of advancement prioritize one of the oldest leagues in the world is at best hypocrisy.


I'll say no more on the matter, we obviously don't agree, but sure there's no harm done.

It's not double standards, you're making it out to be because of some sort of French crusade.

You're saying it's standard practice for a team to deliberately play a second team away from home in the HEC?

That's funny, can't remember too many non French teams doing it.
No matter what way you spin it, a strong club putting out a weak team in a group competition like the Heineken isn't the same as doing it in a league.

Paddywiggum

Munster win without BP

Racing play away against Bordeaux on friday night.

Even with a bonus point win they would be unlikely to qualify for the Amlin given the current state of play in the other pools.

Hence the fielding of a weakened team.

I hope Exeter have their strongest team out though

jamiedav2011

Munster win without BP

thomond2006 wrote: »

Racing are teetering on the brink in terms of the Top14 playoffs, had they not won at Toulon they would be in big trouble.

If you're a Racing supporter, would you want Racing to send a full team in a dead rubber game (from their perspective) as opposed to putting resources into the Top14 where it's all to play for?

Luckily for the Irish provinces, they have the depth to rotate squads in the Rabo and still win most of the time.

Leinster / Leinster supporters cannot moan about this, Leinster are in the position they are in because they lost games. It's not Racing's problem.

Sorry Thomond, but how dare you tar me with that brush. It's not just an issue with this game in particular, it's a wider issue with French clubs.

It makes a mockery of them being there in the first place, and it's happened constantly down the years, distorting pools along the way.

Tox56

Agreed, it's tough luck that Leinster got a hard group and Munster get the easier deciding game, but last year Leinster had an easy group and cruised to a home QF, and got the easiest QF at that. That's how the comp works. If the situations were reversed I'd be telling Munster fans to suck it up, and rightly so.

who_me

jamiedav2011 wrote: »

No matter what way you spin it, a strong club putting out a weak team in a group competition like the Heineken isn't the same as doing it in a league.

You're absolutely right. The French clubs actually value their domestic league, and would probably be less likely to do it there.

PhatPiggins

thomond2006 wrote: »

Racing are teetering on the brink in terms of the Top14 playoffs, had they not won at Toulon they would be in big trouble.

If you're a Racing supporter, would you want Racing to send a full team in a dead rubber game (from their perspective) as opposed to putting resources into the Top14 where it's all to play for?

Luckily for the Irish provinces, they have the depth to rotate squads in the Rabo and still win most of the time.

Leinster / Leinster supporters cannot moan about this, Leinster are in the position they are in because they lost games. It's not Racing's problem.

I think its a case of how poor the standards in the Rabo are that the Irish teams can win with second teams rather than any great strength in depth to be honest.