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Sam Maguire 2013
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Even if they win Leinster I don't think you'd make them odds on to win Sam in 3 years. They would still have plenty to prove, not to mention going back and winning Leinster the following year
We'll agree to disagree there.
When a new team starts firing and winning provincials, the hunger and fire in their belly carries them a long way. I think thats a cherry people put on top of their Mayo predictions.0 -
intellectual dosser wrote: »We'll agree to disagree there.
When a new team starts firing and winning provincials, the hunger and fire in their belly carries them a long way. I think thats a cherry people put on top of their Mayo predictions.
Mayo have proven themselves outside of connacht in the past two years though, kildare haven't0 -
robbiezero wrote: »Disagree. Think Donegal really feared Kerry, it comes out in their talk after the match where they regarded it as their biggest test. As another poster said, They seemed jittery and didnt really go to kill off the game the way they did with Cork.
They probably were at their best v Cork, but didn't really have to be. They just played "rope a dope" football and very easily dealt with Cork in that game.
I really can't see Cork getting anywhere with current management and tactics.
Their fitness and power isn't counting for as much as it was 3/4 years ago.
You seem to forget that Kerry hammered Tyrone going into that game and in the eyes of many they were expected to beat Donegal. Donegal produced a fine performance the scoreline wasn't a true reflection and apart from the opening 15 minutes in All Ireland final they didn't play as well as they did against Kerry.
Plenty are writting off Kerry as too old or past it, that maybe be true but it's still going to take a good team and good performance to knock them out of the championship and the team that does it will probably go on to win the All Ireland.0 -
Always_Running wrote: »You seem to forget that Kerry hammered Tyrone going into that game and in the eyes of many they were expected to beat Donegal. Donegal produced a fine performance the scoreline wasn't a true reflection and apart from the opening 15 minutes in All Ireland final they didn't play as well as they did against Kerry.
Donegal played at their best against Kerry and had all the luck including getting a goal from the sideline. If Sheehen was not taken out by foul play I think Kerry would have won. Donegal will probably be heading for the back door after Sunday and Jim McG knows where his future lies.0 -
Donegal played at their best against Kerry and had all the luck including getting a goal from the sideline. If Sheehen was not taken out by foul play I think Kerry would have won. Donegal will probably be heading for the back door after Sunday and Jim McG knows where his future lies.
Nope played at their best against Cork. You make your own luck and Kerry were lucky to still in that game as Donegal should have been out of sight. Back door or not it's also going to take a top side to knock this Donegal side out of the championship.0 -
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Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »But they are not as strong as last year as you suggest, in fact they are weaker.
They have a very thin panel.
They have had a terrible 12 months of it, a bad championship last year, and a terrible league this year.
Not really sure I buy the notion of Kerry having a very thin panel - between the league and McGrath cup Kerry have used 40 players so far this season. [Compare this to Donegal who are far more vulnerable to injuries - in Donegal's case even a few injuries and not even to their top players and it could pretty much end their season]
Some may say that this is a sign of the younger lads not stepping up but an alternative way to look at it is that they were unable to dislodge some of the top Gaelic footballers in the country.
Kerry had some poor performances in the league but those performances pretty much all came when you had lads who were either too young or not up to standard on the pitch. A lot of the lads who performed poorly in February or March are nowhere near the team.
People go on about age an awful lot but for me the relevant issue is - do the players still have 1) the legs and 2) the hunger.
There is only a small number of games in the Championship (it's not like professional soccer where you are looking at a 50-60 game season or rugby where you are taking serious physical damage as a result of impact over the course of a season) so once those two things are still present I think the "age issue" is a bit of a moot point.Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »In this years league they have once again had to rely on the old staggers to get them out of trouble. None of the players that helped them get to the top of Div 1 in 2012 were a factor in 2013, Curtain, BJK, O' Donoughe.
The starting 6 forwards in their last few league games included 5 guys that had been there for years, Gooch, Donaghey, Declan, Darran, and Galvin, Lyne being the only relative newcomer.
Lose any one of those 5 and apart from Donnacha Walsh the guys to replace them are not up to scratch.
Look at them last year when they lost Sheehan for the Cork game and again during the game v Donegal, they had no one to replace him.
Sheehan is just on his way back from injury.
Cooper played 88 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Galvin played 100 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Declan Sul played 236 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Donaghy played 369 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Darren played 431 minutes of league football but is more than likely to be an impact sub in the Championship.
The league is 560 minutes [excluding playoffs]
Also on the Sheehan issue Johnny Buckley says hello - 27 points so far this season ; 15 from frees from midfield. The notion of no-one to replace Sheehan is completely wide of the mark. That's even before you go near the the fact that David Moran will be challenging for a spot before too long.
As a Kerry fan I'm far more concerned about what will happen when the likes of Cooper, Sullivan, Donaghy retire in a few year as opposed to whether or not they will be up to standard this year.Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »They think they have found a full back in Mark Griffin who had a few good league games, but it will be interesting to see if he looses out when the injury 30 something former wing back O' Mahoney clears up.
The full-back position is still not exactly nailed down but with the emergence of Griffin, Kerry are in a far stronger position than prior to the league. Griffin wasn't named in the starting 15 for Sunday but with Fionn Fitz in (partly through injury) I can understand the logic in not having two Championship debutants in the full-back line. At the moment the situation is that there is one experienced player who has been there and done it at the highest level while there is a lad with promise to keep him under serious pressure on the bench.Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »Their captain is a 30 sometyjing one retired half back who was really a half forward in his good days, and he has also had injuries lately.
Captain in Kerry is through the winning county Championship, so doesnt exactly "matter" as much in other counties where the captain is selected.
If it were the case that Kerry had selected Brosnan as captain it would be one thing, when its Dr Crokes honouring him its a whole different kettle of fish.
As it happens the captain for Sunday is one Colm Cooper.
Overall I really doubt that Kerry are going to suffer from a lack of leadership/experience.Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »I would not be surprised if they win Munster but they will not be a match for much beyond that.
We'll wait and see.;)0 -
Not really sure I buy the notion of Kerry having a very thin panel - between the league and McGrath cup Kerry have used 40 players so far this season. [Compare this to Donegal who are far more vulnerable to injuries - in Donegal's case even a few injuries and not even to their top players and it could pretty much end their season]
Some may say that this is a sign of the younger lads not stepping up but an alternative way to look at it is that they were unable to dislodge some of the top Gaelic footballers in the country.
Kerry had some poor performances in the league but those performances pretty much all came when you had lads who were either too young or not up to standard on the pitch. A lot of the lads who performed poorly in February or March are nowhere near the team.
People go on about age an awful lot but for me the relevant issue is - do the players still have 1) the legs and 2) the hunger.
There is only a small number of games in the Championship (it's not like professional soccer where you are looking at a 50-60 game season or rugby where you are taking serious physical damage as a result of impact over the course of a season) so once those two things are still present I think the "age issue" is a bit of a moot point.
Cooper played 88 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Galvin played 100 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Declan Sul played 236 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Donaghy played 369 minutes of league football for Kerry.
Darren played 431 minutes of league football but is more than likely to be an impact sub in the Championship.
The league is 560 minutes [excluding playoffs]
Also on the Sheehan issue Johnny Buckley says hello - 27 points so far this season ; 15 from frees from midfield. The notion of no-one to replace Sheehan is completely wide of the mark. That's even before you go near the the fact that David Moran will be challenging for a spot before too long.
As a Kerry fan I'm far more concerned about what will happen when the likes of Cooper, Sullivan, Donaghy retire in a few year as opposed to whether or not they will be up to standard this year.
The full-back position is still not exactly nailed down but with the emergence of Griffin, Kerry are in a far stronger position than prior to the league. Griffin wasn't named in the starting 15 for Sunday but with Fionn Fitz in (partly through injury) I can understand the logic in not having two Championship debutants in the full-back line. At the moment the situation is that there is one experienced player who has been there and done it at the highest level while there is a lad with promise to keep him under serious pressure on the bench.
Captain in Kerry is through the winning county Championship, so doesnt exactly "matter" as much in other counties where the captain is selected.
If it were the case that Kerry had selected Brosnan as captain it would be one thing, when its Dr Crokes honouring him its a whole different kettle of fish.
As it happens the captain for Sunday is one Colm Cooper.
Overall I really doubt that Kerry are going to suffer from a lack of leadership/experience.
We'll wait and see.;)
On the David Moran thing
You do know he had eye surgery a few weeks ago and is looking at some more time on the sidelines.
No offense to the guy but if I had a Euro for every time I heard for the past few years is 'Oh well when David Moran comes back etc etc.', then I would be a rich man.
He has not played at this level in at least 2 if not 3 years.
As for using 40 players in the league and McGrath Cup, so what, at the end of the day very few of them panned out and they had to bring back the old boys to save them from Div 2.
Buckley may have had a few good games in the league but this time last year Paddy Curtain was hailed as a great new forward, he has done nothing since.
As for legs and hunger as you mention a lot of them have been around for the best part of a decade and have played record numbers of games over those years, what makes you think they will have a spring in their step this year that was missing last year. ?
Where was the hunger last year after a last minute All Ireland final loss, what makes you think it will be there this year ?0 -
Mayo have proven themselves outside of connacht in the past two years though, kildare haven't
So? I wouldn't expect Mayo to settle for proven (one big win each season), I'd expect them to use the disappointment of the last two years as motivation to lift the Sam Maguire this year.
Similarly if Kildare could add the confidence of winning Leinster to their hunger, then they'd be contenders too.0 -
This years provincial champions will be from this grouping of Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone/Donegal and Kerry/Cork. The Ulster and Munster teams there that dont win it will most likely make it to the QFs if they avoid each other. When you look at that grouping along with the 2 other teams to emerge from the Qualifiers (Kildare, Derry, Down, Laois, Meath etc) we could have some epic encouters come August.0
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I thought Donegal played into Kerry's reputation in the first half and looked jittery in attack. They were forcing Kerry to dump very low percentage long balls over their defence to Donaghy because Kerry couldn't find a way through the bodies.
Of all their performances last years, Derry, Tyrone, Down, Kerry, Cork, Mayo, that QF was the one where their inexperience shone through. They could have easily put a 8-10 point win on the board if they'd taken a decent amount of the chances they manufactured.
If the two teams meet again this year I don't see Donegal being as forgiving and I'd genuinely fear that great players like the O'Ses would end their Kerry careers with a pasting.
That was backed up by comments by a couple of the players, after 20 minutes they realised they were as good as them, McGuinness himself pointed to how significant that the win was, they'd conquered Ulster but beating Kerry showed they were as good as anybody, a bit similar to Tyrone in 03 strangling Kerry.Football is in danger of becoming like hurling to be honest. Bar the top six teams - Donegal, Dublin, Tyrone, Kerry, Cork and Mayo - there are few, if any, contenders.
Any of the teams from Division 2 down are capable of beating each other on any given day I'd think. That's where the real competition is but few of those teams would stand a chance against any of the six above.
I think population is playing more and more of a key. Brolly or some of the lads on the Sunday Game panel threw out a stat on Sunday about how its consistently the teams with higher populations that are in Division 1 and making All-Ireland quarter finals and semis.
I like the backdoor system but it doesn't help. Before you could catch a good team on an off day but there's little chance of catching them twice now.
Brolly made the point in the Gaelic Life that the top 6 will do what it takes when they are leading with 10 minutes to go, and that is usually enough to beat the teams outside the top 6, cynical fouling, fake injuries, slowing up play, that type of stuff, they've it perfected at this stage. The likes of Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Cork, Mayo and Kerry will all do what it takes to win, making the chance of an upset nearly impossible. It's interesting that both Donegal and Mayo in particular have adopted the win at all costs mentality as it exemplifies perfectly the way the game is going.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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That was backed up by comments by a couple of the players, after 20 minutes they realised they were as good as them, McGuinness himself pointed to how significant that the win was, they'd conquered Ulster but beating Kerry showed they were as good as anybody, a bit similar to Tyrone in 03 strangling Kerry.
Brolly made the point in the Gaelic Life that the top 6 will do what it takes when they are leading with 10 minutes to go, and that is usually enough to beat the teams outside the top 6, cynical fouling, fake injuries, slowing up play, that type of stuff, they've it perfected at this stage. The likes of Dublin, Donegal, Tyrone, Cork, Mayo and Kerry will all do what it takes to win, making the chance of an upset nearly impossible. It's interesting that both Donegal and Mayo in particular have adopted the win at all costs mentality as it exemplifies perfectly the way the game is going.
Ok, for a start your quoting The Syf, who has been writing off Kerry for the last 20 years!
Secondly, if as you say, Donegal woke up and suddenly realised they were as good or better than Kerry after 20 mins, then how come they only scored 1 point from play, 2 total in the rest of the first half?...And subsequently, they couldn't outscore Kerry in the second half? Doesn't seem to add up if what you were saying was true really does it?0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »Secondly, if as you say, Donegal woke up and suddenly realised they were as good or better than Kerry after 20 mins, then how come they only scored 1 point from play, 2 total in the rest of the first half?...And subsequently, they couldn't outscore Kerry in the second half? Doesn't seem to add up if what you were saying was true really does it?
Kerry was always going to come back at some stage. We all know about Kerry which is why Donegal beating them was such a big thing, I take on board your stats but the most important stat was Donegal had enough of a lead to withstand the Kerry onslaught in the last 10 minutes, having a Karl Lacey helps!
Put it this way. Did the Kerry game affect how Donegal approached Cork? I'd say big time. Donegal was happy and confident enough to go toe to toe with Cork physically and talent wise in the first half, and then strangle them psychologically and physically in the second. Will Donegal show Kerry as much respect if they meet them again? Nope, there'll be no chip on the shoulder or reverence for Kerry tradition.
That's a huge sea change from Ryan McMenamin and many the Armagh player shouting on the pitch at Donegal players how "we've got them, they can't handle it" in many an Ulster Championship drubbing. As Kevin Cassidy said in that infamous book, McMenamin was all mouth at 0-6 to 0-1, he was very quiet at 0-6 to 0-4.
The likes of Kerry and Tyrone expect Donegal to put up a valiant and heroic challenge and then fall away, that all changed under McGuinness. Beating Tyrone meant Ulster domination, beating Kerry meant the AI was a real possibility.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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Kerry was always going to come back at some stage. We all know about Kerry which is why Donegal beating them was such a big thing, I take on board your stats but the most important stat was Donegal had enough of a lead to withstand the Kerry onslaught in the last 10 minutes, having a Karl Lacey helps!
Put it this way. Did the Kerry game affect how Donegal approached Cork? I'd say big time. Donegal was happy and confident enough to go toe to toe with Cork physically and talent wise in the first half, and then strangle them psychologically and physically in the second. Will Donegal show Kerry as much respect if they meet them again? Nope, there'll be no chip on the shoulder or reverence for Kerry tradition.
That's a huge sea change from Ryan McMenamin and many the Armagh player shouting on the pitch at Donegal players how "we've got them, they can't handle it" in many an Ulster Championship drubbing. As Kevin Cassidy said in that infamous book, McMenamin was all mouth at 0-6 to 0-1, he was very quiet at 0-6 to 0-4.
The likes of Kerry and Tyrone expect Donegal to put up a valiant and heroic challenge and then fall away, that all changed under McGuinness. Beating Tyrone meant Ulster domination, beating Kerry meant the AI was a real possibility.
Woah..you've glossed nicely over things there. Fact is, Donegal did NOT suddenly wake up and boss Kerry around as you seem to suggest from 20 mins on. They didn't outscore Kerry in the rest of the first half, Kerry got 2 to Donegals 1 from play.
3 important changes were made prior to the second half. Eoin Brosnan and Bryan Sheehan went off injured for Kerry. Sheehan's loss in particular was key..he was the only consistent freetaker, Donegal knew they could foul anywhere from 40 yards out and not be punished overly for it. Neil Gallagher came on in midfield for Donegal and proved to be instrumental for them, as he was against Cork in the semi. The impact of those changes (all favouring Donegal) cannot be underestimated. Allied to that Declan O'Sullivan was withdrawn after 10 mins of the 2nd half, which was a baffling decision.
Donegal built up a lead as a result of all this and to be fair kicked some good scores. They were totally dominated in the last 10 minutes however, which for a team who supposedly had thrown off any mental fear of losing, shouldn't happen.
My point is, you and the Syf are seemingly dismissing Kerry and bigging up Donegal based on that game, which are both innacurate assessments. Donegal won that game, deservedly, as they were the better team over the 70 mins, but all things taken into account the argument that Donegal will somehow dominate Kerry based on what went on in that game is totally flawed.
Look at it in another way..that was the first time Kerry has faced that Donegal team in the c/ship. Do you not think they will be more aware, better prepared perhaps if the 2 teams meet again? Do you not think astute men like Fitzmaurice, O'Neill etc will have a plan to counteract Donegal?
I have no idea where this statement comes from. "The likes of Kerry and Tyrone expect Donegal to put up a valiant and heroic challenge and then fall away, that all changed under McGuinness. " That is just plain silly..anybody from any county, who has a brain and has watched this Donegal team for the last 2 years knows they are not going to "fall away" at any stage. They are patently an extremely hard team to beat. Quite why you would make such a ridiculous assertion I have no idea.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »I have no idea where this statement comes from. "The likes of Kerry and Tyrone expect Donegal to put up a valiant and heroic challenge and then fall away, that all changed under McGuinness. " That is just plain silly..anybody from any county, who has a brain and has watched this Donegal team for the last 2 years knows they are not going to "fall away" at any stage. They are patently an extremely hard team to beat. Quite why you would make such a ridiculous assertion I have no idea.
He was saying that they were expected to fall away before McGuinness took over.0 -
intellectual dosser wrote: »So? I wouldn't expect Mayo to settle for proven (one big win each season), I'd expect them to use the disappointment of the last two years as motivation to lift the Sam Maguire this year.
Similarly if Kildare could add the confidence of winning Leinster to their hunger, then they'd be contenders too.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking Kildare. They've been unlucky at times over the last few years and to their credit, they're good to watch.
IMO, they won't join the real contenders until they can beat a top team in the quarters. A win over Dublin in Leinster won't change a lot of peoples perception, mine included.0 -
He was saying that they were expected to fall away before McGuinness took over.
To win even 2 in a row in football is a very difficult task in football nowadays with the back door system. The only team to do it in the last 20 years was Kerry. Donegal do not have that pedigree and the current are very fit with a few exceptional players but currently I would put them behind Dublin, Kerry and Mayo in terms of winning Sam.0 -
He was saying that they were expected to fall away before McGuinness took over.
To win even 2 in a row in football is a very difficult task in football nowadays with the back door system. The only team to do it in the last 20 years was Kerry. Donegal do not have that pedigree and the current are very fit with a few exceptional players but currently I would put them behind Dublin, Kerry and Mayo in terms of winning Sam.0 -
To win even 2 in a row in football is a very difficult task in football nowadays with the back door system. The only team to do it in the last 20 years was Kerry. Donegal do not have that pedigree and the current are very fit with a few exceptional players but currently I would put them behind Dublin, Kerry and Mayo in terms of winning Sam.
You're a day too early with that post. Tomorrow will tell us a lot.0 -
You're a day too early with that post. Tomorrow will tell us a lot.
But he/she is spot on.
For Donegal to reproduce the fitness, hunger, dedication and intensity that they had in 2012 in 2013 would be a huge ask.
Plus teams like Tyrone, Mayo, Kerry Dublin will be gunning for them even more so this year.
Another point about Kerry's 06/07 back to back was that it was won with two different managers, the last manager to win back to back was Billy Morgan in 89/90/0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »Woah..you've glossed nicely over things there. Fact is, Donegal did NOT suddenly wake up and boss Kerry around as you seem to suggest from 20 mins on. They didn't outscore Kerry in the rest of the first half, Kerry got 2 to Donegals 1 from play.
3 important changes were made prior to the second half. Eoin Brosnan and Bryan Sheehan went off injured for Kerry. Sheehan's loss in particular was key..he was the only consistent freetaker, Donegal knew they could foul anywhere from 40 yards out and not be punished overly for it. Neil Gallagher came on in midfield for Donegal and proved to be instrumental for them, as he was against Cork in the semi. The impact of those changes (all favouring Donegal) cannot be underestimated. Allied to that Declan O'Sullivan was withdrawn after 10 mins of the 2nd half, which was a baffling decision.
Donegal built up a lead as a result of all this and to be fair kicked some good scores. They were totally dominated in the last 10 minutes however, which for a team who supposedly had thrown off any mental fear of losing, shouldn't happen.
My point is, you and the Syf are seemingly dismissing Kerry and bigging up Donegal based on that game, which are both innacurate assessments. Donegal won that game, deservedly, as they were the better team over the 70 mins, but all things taken into account the argument that Donegal will somehow dominate Kerry based on what went on in that game is totally flawed.
Look at it in another way..that was the first time Kerry has faced that Donegal team in the c/ship. Do you not think they will be more aware, better prepared perhaps if the 2 teams meet again? Do you not think astute men like Fitzmaurice, O'Neill etc will have a plan to counteract Donegal?
I have no idea where this statement comes from. "The likes of Kerry and Tyrone expect Donegal to put up a valiant and heroic challenge and then fall away, that all changed under McGuinness. " That is just plain silly..anybody from any county, who has a brain and has watched this Donegal team for the last 2 years knows they are not going to "fall away" at any stage. They are patently an extremely hard team to beat. Quite why you would make such a ridiculous assertion I have no idea.
You are correct
The loss of Sheehan, Brosnan and widthdrawl of Declan were key points, far more important than any realisation by Donegal that they were now at the top of tyhe football world or whatever the poster was trying to explain.
And that is where I think Kerry will again be weak in 2013, their squad is weak, we have seen that from the league, and the loss of a top player, particularly a forward to injury or suspension will seriously dent any chances they may have0 -
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Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »You are correct
The loss of Sheehan, Brosnan and widthdrawl of Declan were key points, far more important than any realisation by Donegal that they were now at the top of tyhe football world or whatever the poster was trying to explain.
And that is where I think Kerry will again be weak in 2013, their squad is weak, we have seen that from the league, and the loss of a top player, particularly a forward to injury or suspension will seriously dent any chances they may have
But if they keep them fit?0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »You are correct
The loss of Sheehan, Brosnan and widthdrawl of Declan were key points, far more important than any realisation by Donegal that they were now at the top of tyhe football world or whatever the poster was trying to explain.
And that is where I think Kerry will again be weak in 2013, their squad is weak, we have seen that from the league, and the loss of a top player, particularly a forward to injury or suspension will seriously dent any chances they may have
You cannot take anything from Kerry's league form. Key players were given a well earned rest. They will be back firing on all cylinders by the time they get to croke park in August. Donegal have a much harder trip and teams will be gunning for them. They will still be there in August as will Mayo and Dublin.Kerry are the team more used to handling big matches after that.0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »You are correct
The loss of Sheehan, Brosnan and widthdrawl of Declan were key points, far more important than any realisation by Donegal that they were now at the top of tyhe football world or whatever the poster was trying to explain.
And that is where I think Kerry will again be weak in 2013, their squad is weak, we have seen that from the league, and the loss of a top player, particularly a forward to injury or suspension will seriously dent any chances they may have
So they're no different to any other team then. Dublin's chances would be compromised if they lost Brogan, likewise Donegal with Murphy, O'Neill in Tyrone, Dillon or McLoughlin for Mayo.0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »On the David Moran thing
You do know he had eye surgery a few weeks ago and is looking at some more time on the sidelines.
No offense to the guy but if I had a Euro for every time I heard for the past few years is 'Oh well when David Moran comes back etc etc.', then I would be a rich man.
He has not played at this level in at least 2 if not 3 years.
As for using 40 players in the league and McGrath Cup, so what, at the end of the day very few of them panned out and they had to bring back the old boys to save them from Div 2.
Buckley may have had a few good games in the league but this time last year Paddy Curtain was hailed as a great new forward, he has done nothing since.
As for legs and hunger as you mention a lot of them have been around for the best part of a decade and have played record numbers of games over those years, what makes you think they will have a spring in their step this year that was missing last year. ?
Where was the hunger last year after a last minute All Ireland final loss, what makes you think it will be there this year ?
Yes I'm aware of Moran's eye injury.
I wasn't stating that David Moran coming back would result in Kerry winning an All-Ireland, what I did say was that it wouldnt be too long before he was competing for a place.
In terms of hunger and a spring in the step versus last year, I think the fact that Jack has moved on has freshened things up.
I don't think "hunger" is going to win you an All-Ireland but I think the lack of hunger is going to lose you one.
Basically winning an All-Ireland is all about getting to the last 8 and then between the top teams an awful lot comes down to who performs on the day, which means that for a top team you need only a very small number of good performances to win the All-Ireland.
Are Kerry in the category of one of those top teams? Yes
Will they win the All-Ireland this year? We'll wait and see.0 -
But if they keep them fit?
Harder for older guys with a lot of mileage to be as fit and recover as quick as younger guys
Plus Kerry have one or two players with poor disciplinary records, sendings off are not out of the question.You cannot take anything from Kerry's league form. Key players were given a well earned rest. They will be back firing on all cylinders by the time they get to croke park in August. Donegal have a much harder trip and teams will be gunning for them. They will still be there in August as will Mayo and Dublin.Kerry are the team more used to handling big matches after that.
But you cannot ignore their league form either, nor can you ignore their 2012 Championship form.
The fact that they got hammered by Mayo, Dublin and Donegal, all of who were not fully strengthen either just shows how poor a panel they have.
And as for them being able to handle big matches lets just take a look at the their Croke Park performance since their last All Ireland win
Wins = 2
2011 - Limerick (enough said)
2011 - Mayo (young, inexperienced, Horan's first year in charge)
Losses = 4
2010 - Down (well beaten)
2011 - Dublin (Threw away a 4pt lead with 6 mins to go)
2012 - Mayo (Threw away another lead late in the game)
2012 - Donegal (Well beaten)
So lately they don't handle big matches that well after all.klairondavis wrote: »So they're no different to any other team then. Dublin's chances would be compromised if they lost Brogan, likewise Donegal with Murphy, O'Neill in Tyrone, Dillon or McLoughlin for Mayo.
Ok so you have given examples of possibly the best players on each team.
Take Gooch away and how are Kerry ?
Look ate the Mayo team that hammered Galway on Sunday, missing Conroy, Donerty, Barry Moran and Keane, how did they do ?
And don't go on about how bad Galway were, yes they were poor but Mayo still went away from home to their biggest rival (whom many a pundit fancied) and they hammered them.
Cillian O' Conor was injured in a club game tonight, looks serious but no news yet, lest see how Mayo do without him.Yes I'm aware of Moran's eye injury.
I wasn't stating that David Moran coming back would result in Kerry winning an All-Ireland, what I did say was that it wouldnt be too long before he was competing for a place.
In terms of hunger and a spring in the step versus last year, I think the fact that Jack has moved on has freshened things up.
I don't think "hunger" is going to win you an All-Ireland but I think the lack of hunger is going to lose you one.
Basically winning an All-Ireland is all about getting to the last 8 and then between the top teams an awful lot comes down to who performs on the day, which means that for a top team you need only a very small number of good performances to win the All-Ireland.
Are Kerry in the category of one of those top teams? Yes
Will they win the All-Ireland this year? We'll wait and see.
Many would argue that Fitzmaurice is just a continuation of Jack, former player under him, on the back-room team etc.
Plus he is very close with al lot of the team, played and won All Ireland with may of them.
Whether he realises it or not me may go easy on his his ageing buddies to the deterement of the team over all.
When did David Moran last kick a ball in a Championship game ?
Is that really the type of guy you are relying on off the bench ?0 -
Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »Harder for older guys with a lot of mileage to be as fit and recover as quick as younger guys
Plus Kerry have one or two players with poor disciplinary records, sendings off are not out of the question.
Fair enough but you didn't answer the question.0 -
ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »Ok, for a start your quoting The Syf, who has been writing off Kerry for the last 20 years!
Secondly, if as you say, Donegal woke up and suddenly realised they were as good or better than Kerry after 20 mins, then how come they only scored 1 point from play, 2 total in the rest of the first half?...And subsequently, they couldn't outscore Kerry in the second half? Doesn't seem to add up if what you were saying was true really does it?
It's only the last two years. As late as September 2011 they were worthy of winning an AI and if they'd held their nerve Dublin wouldn't have found a way back form four down with only a few minutes left.
Their form since that final looks very much like a great team dying. They're still better than all but five or six teams in the country but the gap between them and the very elite - Dublin and Donegal as of right now - is as large as the gap between Kerry and, say, Down or Derry.
A huge amount needs to fall in place for Kerry to even reach the AISF this year, they'd have to either get a qualifier in the AIQF who aren't a Donegal/Tyrone or Dublin/Kildare (unless the losers of those ties meet each other in the qualifiers it'll mean Kerry have at least a 50% chance of meeting a qualifier fully capable of beating them) or, if they lose to Cork as seems very possible, they must hope someone like ourselves wins Connacht or another province and they can use their experience to bully that team in classic Kerry fashion.
Just looking at the spread right now it seems very much like Kerry are more likely to lose an AIQF than win it and even then I can't seem them advancing to a final. Even great teams tumble down eventually and I don't think any amount of cloak and dagger training sessions will change the fact that there's better and stronger teams and panels out there. Enough that Kerry doing the business seems a relatively remote possibility.
Kerry could well win an AI in a few years' time if Fitzmaurice does a good job developing younger players - if ever there was a county where tradition dictates competitiveness it's Kerry - but this year seems to be Fitzmaurice's gift to the old guard, giving them one last roll of the dice before a core of players ride off into the sunset with a king's ransom of medals.
Simply put I think a lot of people are blowing Kerry up to be something they're not, even when they acknowledge their flaws. There's a disconnect between the facts people offer up about the panel and the status that is afforded them.0 -
It's only the last two years. As late as September 2011 they were worthy of winning an AI and if they'd held their nerve Dublin wouldn't have found a way back form four down with only a few minutes left.
Their form since that final looks very much like a great team dying. They're still better than all but five or six teams in the country but the gap between them and the very elite - Dublin and Donegal as of right now - is as large as the gap between Kerry and, say, Down or Derry.
A huge amount needs to fall in place for Kerry to even reach the AISF this year, they'd have to either get a qualifier in the AIQF who aren't a Donegal/Tyrone or Dublin/Kildare (unless the losers of those ties meet each other in the qualifiers it'll mean Kerry have at least a 50% chance of meeting a qualifier fully capable of beating them) or, if they lose to Cork as seems very possible, they must hope someone like ourselves wins Connacht or another province and they can use their experience to bully that team in classic Kerry fashion.
Just looking at the spread right now it seems very much like Kerry are more likely to lose an AIQF than win it and even then I can't seem them advancing to a final. Even great teams tumble down eventually and I don't think any amount of cloak and dagger training sessions will change the fact that there's better and stronger teams and panels out there. Enough that Kerry doing the business seems a relatively remote possibility.
Kerry could well win an AI in a few years' time if Fitzmaurice does a good job developing younger players - if ever there was a county where tradition dictates competitiveness it's Kerry - but this year seems to be Fitzmaurice's gift to the old guard, giving them one last roll of the dice before a core of players ride off into the sunset with a king's ransom of medals.
Simply put I think a lot of people are blowing Kerry up to be something they're not, even when they acknowledge their flaws. There's a disconnect between the facts people offer up about the panel and the status that is afforded them.
:rolleyes: You heard it here first people..36 All Irelands by bullying, the plain truth!
1. I find it amusing that you seem to sugest Kerry should fear meeting Kildare who were saved with a last minute point against Limerick last year...
2. Lol at " a huge amount needs to fall into place for Kerry to reach an AISF this year"...beating Cork in Killarney (haven't been beaten there since 1995) and winning 1 game in Croker is suddenly "a huge amount falling into place"??
3. My original points stands on your (for whatever reason) jaundiced views of Kerry...its more amusing that annoying to be honest. Team is definitely nowhere near its peak, but you are certainly no authority to judge it given your posting record.0 -
Grand, Kerry were unlucky to lose to Donegal and they're serious contenders this year.
Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »I have no idea where this statement comes from. "The likes of Kerry and Tyrone expect Donegal to put up a valiant and heroic challenge and then fall away, that all changed under McGuinness. " That is just plain silly..anybody from any county, who has a brain and has watched this Donegal team for the last 2 years knows they are not going to "fall away" at any stage. They are patently an extremely hard team to beat. Quite why you would make such a ridiculous assertion I have no idea.
I have no idea how you interpreted a pretty clear statement that way.Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.
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