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Deadpool
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johnny_ultimate wrote: »And sadly despite some early indications to the contrary (hell, in a trailer she says "I've played a lot of roles, damsel in distress ain't one of them"!), Morena Baccarin's character eventually ends up just being another 'superhero's love interest', waiting to be kidnapped. Give us actual characters if you want something to have any sort of impact.
Hold on, her character useshis sword to cut her bonds, then grabs the blade with bare hands to pull it out of the restraint enough to open the door, then takes said sword and rams it through AjaxHardly helpless
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,295 CMod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 28007
brianregan09 wrote: »I would suggest that most people here who didn't like it are obviously not Deadpool fans at all.....
Barely know a thing about the character. That does not prevent me or anybody else from watching it and forming a valid opinion on it
i'm surprised it took so long to bring the old feminist (oh damsel in distress) bull crap that seems to be like some sort of buzz word or sentence when reviewing a movie now , Either you have a strong independant woman or you're movie is **** basically
Nope, when you have a character say in a trailer - and I quote - "I've played a lot of roles, damsel in distress ain't one of them", then you're fair game for criticism when she does end up a damsel in distress for a significant proportion of the running time (45 seconds or so on either side of the film excepted). And this is more a crime of bad screenwriting than some affront to feminism (for the record, 'the strong, independent woman' can just as readily be an insipid trope). It can be easily expanded to include the other characters, too - the generic Eastern European strong-man, a generic British villain, a generic wacky best friend, a generic moody teenager etc... Pretty much every character is a lazy trope, lacking anything of interest.
And the obvious counter to that is: but they know they're all lazy tropes and they make fun of them!. To me, self-aware crappy writing is still crappy writing. A genuinely clued-in, interesting film would instead try to address these things and attempt to do something new. Deadpool is content to merely point them out and then slavishly go along with them. Which stands out because, the quips aside, the film plays the core plot reasonably straight-faced all-in-all - from the love story to the OTT action finale.
Obviously, if it was funnier it would have helped, but I found it about as amusing as a direct-to-video American Pie sequel. I found a behind-the-scenes gif of Reynolds with a balloon sword funnier than anything in the film. But hey, humour, subjectivity, etc...0 -
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johnny_ultimate wrote: »Barely know a thing about the character. That does not prevent me or anybody else from watching it and forming a valid opinion on it
Nope, when you have a character say in a trailer - and I quote - "I've played a lot of roles, damsel in distress ain't one of them", then you're fair game for criticism when she does end up a damsel in distress for a significant proportion of the running time (45 seconds or so on either side of the film excepted). And this is more a crime of bad screenwriting than some affront to feminism (for the record, 'the strong, independent woman' can just as readily be an insipid trope). It can be easily expanded to include the other characters, too - the generic Eastern European strong-man, a generic British villain, a generic wacky best friend, a generic moody teenager etc... Pretty much every character is a lazy trope, lacking anything of interest.
And the obvious counter to that is: but they know they're all lazy tropes and they make fun of them!. To me, self-aware crappy writing is still crappy writing. A genuinely clued-in, interesting film would instead try to address these things and attempt to do something new. Deadpool is content to merely point them out and then slavishly go along with them. Which stands out because, the quips aside, the film plays the core plot reasonably straight-faced all-in-all - from the love story to the OTT action finale.
Obviously, if it was funnier it would have helped, but I found it about as amusing as a direct-to-video American Pie sequel. I found a behind-the-scenes gif of Reynolds with a balloon sword funnier than anything in the film. But hey, humour, subjectivity, etc...
I actually disagree with most of this but I will just concentrate on one aspect. You point to the generic Eastern European strong man, the generic wacky best friend as lazy tropes but all these characters are true to the original comics and after being so badly represented in Deadpool's previous appearance on screen the writers and directors were true to the original story.
Do critics complain about Martin Freeman for being a hapless sidekick in his role as Dr. Watson as being a lazy trope? Probably not for the most part as Sherlock was based on a book, which is taken to be something more creative and somehow more important than other forms of media, especially comics which are seen as worthless play things for children that can have no valid creative worth.
It seems that if a film is produced that is based on a book and remains true to the tropes of the book, it is worthy of praise. However, to do the same with a comic book, is almost seen as being sinful. An example would be Lord of the Rings, based on a book and received wide critical acclaim. However, even the most basic analysis would reveal so many tropes and clichés you would see there is no real novelty in anything in the story: Frodo goes on a quest, grows into the role of ring bearer over comes great difficulty. The Dark Lord has a vast army, vast magical powers chasing a magic ring etc etc.
I'm not saying that Deadpool is any great literary character but the instant dismal of the movie because it is based on a comic book, and therefore has no literary or creative worth simply annoys me.
If you look at the Deadpool character himself you would see that it is a refreshing interpretation of what has become the traditional comic book character. For once I am glad that this film was produced and not sanitised for a younger audience to make the most profits possible. They took a risk and actually delivered a character that many people will dislike for being crude and a "superhero" movie that contains violence and nudity.
You may not like the humour, I'm sure many people won't or the violence but do you criticise Die Hard for not being intellectually stimulating enough? In a way, Deadpool is comparable to Die Hard, a humorous action film. Both will appeal to a certain audience and many critics will point to it being a formulaic recipe, but to complain that it not comparable to a great work such as Lord of the Rings or whatever else, is just unfair and lazy journalism.0 -
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Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 29,295 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 28007
You're making a lot of accusations I never made there farna_boy
Tropes exist for a reason. They're basic building blocks of fictional storytelling, that have developed over thousands of years. Done well, they can still pack power. Lord of the Rings is a good example - a sprawling, multi-tier epic that explores classical tropes in a rewarding, entertaining way. Die Hard, too, is a good example. It, for example, brings a delightful level of playfulness and humour to the 'English villain' trope, through Rickman's brilliant performance. Jessica Jones, which I've just finished watching, is another good example - there you have another 'British bad guy', but the character is beautifully developed: charming and genuinely nasty in equal measure, with actual motivations and a power that is meaningful explored over its admittedly longer running time. Of course, tropes can easily transition into something that's over-familiar and uninspired - just regurgitating ideas with no new slant or perspective of their own.
I hope that illustrates that I have no problems with comic books or comic book adaptions if they're done right - over the last few months, actually, I've read through the entirety of Saga and am now up to date with it, and thoroughly enjoying it.
So no, my problem is not that Deadpool is based on a comic book, or that it is not intellectually engaging - I didn't expect anything of that sort going in. My problem is how it handles itself. This is purely on its own terms, what it sets out to do. The tropes it employs are far too familiar and uninteresting, nowhere near as engaging as the best examples of said types. The action - this is purely IMO - lacked any sort of bite: too reliant on shoddy CG and janky, cautious (it actually felt very timid to me in terms of violence) direction and editing that robbed it of sufficient oomph. Most of all what lost me was that it thought that making fun of its own shortcomings was enough. Personally, I'd rather a film actively try to overcome the shortcomings of its basic building blocks - as I pointed out earlier, Super is great for that. Hell, even if you don't want to be subversive, buckling down and really trying to present familiar ideas in a really passionate and committed way can pay wonderful dividends. But that wasn't what I got from Deadpool - instead I got something lazy, crude and obnoxious that fell victim to the very same things it made fun of.
If it delivered everything you were hoping for, excellent, glad it did. But it's not belittling fans or those who enjoyed the film to say I thought it was total garbage 0 -
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